Percentages in Krishna Consciousness?

[SubashRao]

10% KC ---> 90% chance of falling down?

 

20% KC ---> 80% chance of falling down?

 

30% KC ---> 70% chance of falling down?

 

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100% KC ---> ***100% chance of reaching GOLOKA***

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Thats why you have Guru. He takes you to Goloka.

 

Otherwise what the hell chance have me and you got.

[SubashRao]

 

What is the right time to look for a 'guru'?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

What is the right time to look for a 'guru'?

 

When you want Krishna.

 

[krsna]

Finding A Qualified Guru: The Search Within

 

BY SWAMI B.V. TRIPURARI

EDITORIAL, Jan 16, 1999 (VNN)

 

Should we look for anything less than the most qualified person when we look for our spiritual guide? Certainly not. The difficulty, however, arises when we look at our own self. It is said that "it takes one to know one." What is the aspiring disciple's capacity to recognize a qualified devotee? This must be considered.

 

The scripture gives us general observable criterion, that of 'brahma-bhuta' or 'brahma-nishtham', which consists of joyfulness (prasannatma), absence of hankering and lamentation (na socati na kanksati), and equal vision (samah sarvesu bhutesu). This speaks not of the highest qualifications, but of those that amount to a transcendental passport, while the visa is yet to come (visate tad anantaram.) Yet even these symptoms are not always observable.

 

One of Srila Prabhupada's disciples once asked if she could paint a picture of Srila Prabhupada. He agreed and gave her a photo of himself, one in which he appeared very grave. After some time, Srila Prabhupada asked her about the painting and she replied that she had not proceeded because in the photo Prabhupada looked sad. "Sad?" he replied, "That was a moment of ecstasy."

 

Surely he was joyful (prasannatma, more rasananda), but this kind of joy requires philosophical, if not spiritual, eyes to see. What then to speak of observable evidence of any higher attainment? 'Atah srikrsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih', as one cannot see Krishna with material senses, so one cannot understand a 'mahabhagavata' in the highest sense of the term without having considerable spiritual attainment oneself. Again, it takes one to know one. A person who has conclusive evidence as to the spiritual attainment of his guru, is indeed qualified himself to do the work of guru. We bow down to him.

 

Once Srila Sridhara Maharaja spoke of three types of guru. The first type has two feet in the spiritual world. The second has one foot here and one foot there. The third has two feet here but both eyes always there. A scriptural reference in support of this notion appears in Sri Jiva Goswami's Bhakti-sandarbha. Jiva Goswami describes three types of mahabhagavatas.

 

The first, 'bhagavat-parsada-deha-prapt', is situated in the spiritual world in his spiritual form while appearing in the material world. Narada Muni after he received his siddha deha is an example of this kind of mahabhagavata. Such souls are very rare, 'sudurlabha bhagavata hi loke'. The second, 'nirdhuta-kasaya', does not have material conditioning but has not yet realized his siddha-deha. Sukadeva Goswami is an example of this kind of mahabhagavata. The third, 'murcchita-kasaya', is still under the dim influence of the sattva-guna, yet has the Lord as his only goal in life. Such devotees still have desire and samskaras (material impressions) in their hearts, yet due to the force of their devotion, these impurities are supressed. Narada Muni, before receiving his siddha deha, is an example of this kind of mahabhagavata. He had a mystic darsana of Sri Krishna, only to have the Lord disappear and tell him that he would not have his darsana again until he was completely pure.

 

Jiva Goswami's explanation is supported in a general sense by the Bhagavad Gita. In 2.59, Arjuna asks about the charateristics of a realized soul (sthita prajna). Krishna proceeds to answer Arjuna, describing a gradation of sthita prajna. This explanation applies to both those in the jnana marg and those of the bhakti marg.

 

>From Jiva Goswmai's explanation we can also understand Srila Prabhupada's apparently contradictory statements about the qualities of a mahabhagavata found throughout his books. At one time he speaks of the first type, at another of the second, or third. Which shall we choose? Which will we be able to recognize, when furthermore, if they are preaching, they will be functioning as madhyama-adhikaris?

 

Over lifetimes we have acquired sukrti, 'bhakty-unmukhi sukrti'. Proportionate to our sukrti, we are qualified to connect with the transcendental realm and its ambassadors. Qualification of guru is an important consideration, yet no less important is the qualification of the disciple. The absolute truth is not in shortage of qualified representatives. It is we who must qualify ourselves to recognize them, and this requires all of the sincerity we can gather. And this, our sincerity, truthfulness, is all we have.

 

As like attracts like, our sincerity in connection with our sukrti will attract a representative of Godhead. Our sincerity may be great, and our sukrti small. This also must be considered. One may drive a Cadillac, another a Volkswagen. The driver of the Volkswagen may press the accelerator to the floor, giving all his sincerity, while the driver of the Cadillac may be stepping on the brake. One may have more sukrti than another; the other may be exercising greater sincerity. In this way there is much to consider. It is not black and white. Yet surely our sincerity will not fail us, for it will bring us closer to the Lord, albeit sometimes in a roundabout way. And we are not to argue with that. It is his will about which we are inquiring.

 

Sometimes in the name of generating faith, we affect the opposite. Comprehensive knowledge of scripture is necessary. Anyone can quote scripture to support his point of view, but few approach the scripture to have their views altered, what to speak of realizing the scripture's purport. Those who lack faith in others, often pass on only doubts rather than faith in the name of preaching about the qualifications of guru. If you yourself doubt that there is anyone advanced enough to do the work of guru, how can you preach to others? This is the logic of Srila Prabhupada. He would say, "Just see the foolishness in this. By thinking there are no advanced devotees one can hear from, one inadvertently proclaims oneself to be the most advanced."

 

This is the typical thinking of the kanistha-adhikari. He passes his doubt on to others. They, in turn, imbibe that consciousness and go out to scrutinize all prospective gurus, thinking, "I must have the most qualified guru." Often the unconscious underlying mentality of this search is "because I am so qualified." With this mentality, we will never find a qualified guru. A mahabhagavata we should search out, no doubt. But the search must begin within ourselves.

[krsna]

Grieving and Healing:

The entire Vedic system of samskaras is so set up so that we can become fixed in our devotion to the Lord irrespective of what developments or challenges come in our way.

 

It is important to remember that we are eternal spirit souls, temporarily in these material bodies, we have an original home in the spiritual realm, and a direct relationship with Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Those souls who we have, or are associating with have been given to us by the Lord, that we can mutually benefit each other in our sojourn in this place.

 

At the present we may be the son, husband or father of a particular soul, but in the real or permanent scale of things, we have all had so many fathers, been so many husbands or wives, and been son to so many mothers and fathers, from time immemorial, in various species, under various circumstances, in different lives. This is nicely explained in the story of Chitraketu (Srimad Bhagavatam 6th canto 14-16th chapters), who after being revived after passing away by his grieving parents of that life, asks “Which parents of mine are you?”

 

Our love that we feel for the departed is genuine and should not be denied artificially out of fanaticism. Rather we need to grieve for the soul, but at the same time understand that for one who has taken birth as a devotee, always hearing the Holy name, taking prasadam, rendering service to the Deity, serving the spiritual master and the Vaishnavas, he or she has gained so much benefit, that will never be lost.

 

For those of us who have by the grace and mercy of the Lord come to Krishna consciousness at a later stage of our lives, similarly there is no loss for any and all devotional service that we have performed, and that such service will not forgotten by Krishna when we are relocating into a new body.

 

There are numerous places in Bhagavad Gita where Lord Krishna states to Arjuna that one who performs devotional service he is very dear to me, that there is never any loss or dwindling/diminition of the results of that service.

 

In the shastras there are numerous incidents where devotees have been saved by even performing a small amount of devotional service, what to speak of great devotees like Sri Prahlad or Dhruva, who benefit many generations. Actually, even those of us who have performed a meagre amount of service, those who are associated with us, our parents, relatives, friends all gain benefit from that service, such is the wonders of devotional service.

 

And as for who is to blame for our loss is described in the Srimad Bhagavatam 1:17:22 purport.

 

In Bhagavad-gitä it is said: svalpam apy asya dharmasya (Bg. 2.40). It is certainly a great fall to go from human life to animal life, but in the case of Bharata Mahäräja or any devotee, devotional service to the Lord never goes in vain. As stated in Bhagavad-gétä (8.6): yam yam väpi smaran bhävam tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time of death, by nature’s law the mind is absorbed in a certain type of thinking. This may lead one to animal life, yet for a devotee there is no loss. Even though Bharata Mahäräja received the body of a deer, he didn’t forget his position. Consequently, in the body of a deer he was very careful to remember the cause of his downfall. As a result, he was given a chance to be born in a family of very pure brähmanas. Thus his service to the Lord never went in vain. (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srimad Bhagavatam 5:12:15. Purport.)

 

Närada Muni says, “Oh, there is no loss for him.”Yatra kva väbhadram abhüd amushya kim ko vä artha äptah abhajatäm sva-dharmatah. Närada Muni says that even if he falls down he does not lose anything. But what does he gain if one is engaged in his occupational duty as a brähmana, kshatriya, vaishya, or this or that? If he sticks to his occupational duty and does not understand Krishna consciousness, what does he gain? He does not gain anything. Suppose if one follows the rules and regulations of a brähmana. His next life he may get a brähmana birth or a very, I mean to say, learned family. Like that he can get. But that is not a very good gain. But Närada Muni says if one has begun the occupational duty of Krishna consciousness, giving up all other occupational duties, even if he falls down, that one percent, two percent, remains as his asset so that he will be able to begin from next life again Krishna consciousness. So it is so nice that even one falls down, it will not Whatever he has done, whatever you have done, that is your permanent asset. Permanent because it is spiritual. This Krishna consciousness movement is spiritual. As spirit soul is eternal, permanent, similarly, any activity on the spiritual platform is eternal. It will never be lost. So there are many instructions like this.

So Prahläda Mahäräja is also stressing on that point, that durlabham mänusham janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. Although this human form of life is not very long, but you can get the very nice result out of it.(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 8th May 1968. Srimad Bhagavatam class 7:6:1. Boston, USA)

 

“It is said in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that this devotional service is so powerful that even if a devotee occasionally falls down from the standard there is no loss for him. If he is sincere, he will automatically rectify his error and Lord Krsna immediately purifies him from within. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita also, that for the devotee Krsna gives all protection, and there is never any loss for him. But if one is not engaged in Krsna Consciousness, there is no gain for him in any position of material life.

So we must stick firmly to the chanting of the Holy Name and following the rules. This will keep us from being tricked by Maya. But there is no question of disappointment for some temporary bewilderment. We are all new and weak in this Krsna Consciousness. Just as everyone in the hospital is diseased, and although they are trying to become well there is a chance that anyone of them may relapse, but that does not mean that the hospital should be closed. It is now our business to struggle with Maya, and when we win out by Krsna's grace that is to regain our natural healthy life of Krsna Consciousness. So there is no case of disappointment.” (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 19th February 1970. Letter to Sucandra dasa. LA.)

 

Simply engage yourself in such things which will continue, ...will exist forever.

Just like we are learning here Krishna’s service. So Krishna’s service is here, and if you are perfect, then Krishna’s service is there after death also, the same thing. Therefore it is said, mära vä jiva vä. One saintly person said to a royal prince, räja-putra ciran jiva, ciran jiva: “Oh, you are the son of a king. You will live forever.” Muni-putra muni-putra mä jiva mä jiva: “Oh, you are the disciple of a saintly person, brahmacäri, you please die immediately.” Just see. Räja-putra ciran jiva, blessing räja-putra, “You live forever.” And muni-putra, the son of a muni, or the disciple of a muni, he says, mä jiva, mä jiva: “You don’t live, you’ll die. You die.” And that thing... That, what is called? This butcher. Butcher, he is advising the butcher, jiva vä mära vä: “Either you...” No. He is advising butcher, mä jiva mä mära: “Don’t die, don’t live.” And to a sädhu, saintly person, he is advising, jiva vä mära vä, two things. So what is the purport? The purport is that this prince, he is enjoying material enjoyment, but next life he will have to become a dog. “So better you live with your enjoyment. Ciran jiva. Because as soon as you die, you are going to be a dog. So better you live. So long you will live it is good for you.” And muni-putra, a brahmacäri, his business is fasting and go to collect for Guru Mahäräja, and then whatever he takes, he offers to the guru. Then the guru says that “You can eat,” he can eat. It is hardship, but by this hardship he is now prepared to go back to home, Godhead. So he says, “You immediately die so you can go to Vaikuntha immediately.” And the cruel butcher, he is advised, mä jiva mä mära: “You don’t live and don’t die. Because your living condition is so horrible that every day, morning, you have to kill so many animals and see bloodshed and this. It is a horrible life. Your occupation is very, very horrible. Therefore you should not live. But at the same time, if you die, then you are going to suffer all this suffering yourself. Then you don’t die also.” So this is the position. And sädhu, those who are saintly person, devotees, he is advised, jéva vä mära vä: “Either you live or either you die, your business is to serve Krishna. You are serving Krishna now, and after death, you will serve Krishna. So there is no question of your death, neither there is no question of your birth.” So these are some moral instructions.(Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 3rd January 1974. Srimad Bhagavatam class 1:16:6. Los Angeles.)

 

So having grieved naturally utilise the Asaucham period to reflect on the situation. Reflect on the nature of the soul, the nature of consciousness, and our relationship with the Lord. Having thus resolved our understanding of who we are in relation to those around us, and their eternal relationship with the Lord, and our temporal position in this world, we can be thankful for the moments of association that we had with departed loved ones, but now understanding the situation work towards healing, through spiritual knowledge and realisation.

 

It is required that the functional pujas of the samskaras aide us to get over the loss, and with confidence and faith fix our God given intelligence back to the job at hand, our preparation to overcome the impending threats of death and to return to the spiritual abode.

 

To be successful in this venture we need to have addressed all aspects of our being through the development of Krishna consciousness, as stated in Bhagavad Gita 2:59. If we have genuinely gained a higher taste and understanding, then we will no longer lament for the things of this world, having understood their nature. Where this is lacking, we need to understand that it is us who is lacking, and through positive association seek aide of fixed up devotees.

 

The qualification to enter into Krishna’s realm and pastimes is that we have attained at least to asakti (100% attachment to Krishna, and 100% detachment from the maya of the temporal world) (Madhurya Kadambini).

 

Those of us who have stepped even one foot on this path will never be the loser. We will take up from where we left off each time in each life until we have dealt with all the issues that presently convince us to seek temporal pleasure in this material realm separately from Krishna consciousness. Until this is resolved in our hearts we remain here.

 

In this regard, if you see me lost on the path, please kindly stop and redirect me. Some things I have understood, some I still to work on. Like persons who are attending a bath-room for the purpose of becoming cleansed – those who are preparing to bathe tolerate, while those in the shower properly equipped act as their preparation – those now drying off are supportive.

 

Let us then be like that in all stages of our development – where we can reach down and lend a hand, while ourselves holding on to those devotees who themselves reach down to us. Thus reaching upward in appreciation, and downward out of compassion simply following the process of devotional service we will reach the required goal, in due course of time. Of that there is no doubt.

 

As Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada so nicely, and kindly writes to his dear disciple Brahmananda:

 

Krsna Consciousness means

We should always be satisfied and happy,

Not that we must work something impossible,

Become overburdened and then,

Because we are unhappy by so much trouble,

We lose enthusiasm and give up all hope.

 

By all means we must preserve our spiritual status, that is the point.

Not that we are mad after big buildings,

Many devotees, life members, this, that______

No. These are only the ways to engage the devotees,

So that they may apply the principles

Of devotional service to some kind of work.

 

It is not the result of the work that we want.

If we sincerely preach

To only one person a day,

That is sufficient,

Never mind big, big programs.

So do not be bothered by these things.

Krsna does not like to see His sincere devotee

Suffer or become frustrated or depressed.

He will not stand idly by, in such a case,

So do not fear on that account.

 

Krsna has a plan for you,

Always think in that way

And very soon He will provide

Everthing to your heart's desire.

 

Letter from Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to Brahmananda Swami (9th December 1972)

 

Put in the form of a poem.

[SubashRao]

 

 

enlightening! enlightening! enlightening!

 

 

I'm waiting to settle down first before approaching a bona-fide Guru....

[Guest guest]

where is possible today to found a real bonafide guru?, means a pure devote?

[SubashRao]

nice question...

 

Only Krishna knows...

 

Yes it is indeed very hard to get a bonafide guru nowdays...

 

Hey why worry maybe next birth He will arrange one...if i'm sincere enough...what do you think?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Thats another trick of Maya. Next life everything will be ok. What happened to this life?

[SubashRao]

 

well...

 

Krishna himself said "out of billions only one will attain Me"...

 

So i'm not qualified yet to be the one....

I think it is not nice if I think that I will be 100% devotee of the lord in this birth itself...

 

This birth i'm just starting to realise the truth and it is a long way to go...

 

So this birth is just preparation...

I think in my previous birth I did very little devotional service...if not I would have born in a highly elevated brahmana family...

 

[mpuri]

We just need to keep our eyes open, help is available.

 

Here's another perspective on how to live in Krsna consciousness: http://lightson.net/inspiration.htm#Gods_Will

 

See http://tmarchives for more such transcripts.

[mpuri]

I mean visit http://tmarchives.com, sorry.

 

Krsna is the supreme personality of godhead and he is attainable now. Don't worry about another lifetime, seek him now, you'll find him.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I did a search for 'Krishna' only came up with one reply.

 

Tell you the truth it was worth it:

 

 

Filip - I was just going to share with everybody. I've been reading a about re-incarnation which is put out by The Krishna consciousness but there is an interview with a Guru and a German professor, and if I can find the words...

 

Perhaps it makes a difference, if a person thinks, I am a spirit and I have a body, rather than, I am a body, and I nave a soul.

 

Which I thought was rather good.

 

Teacher: Correct.

 

[mpuri]

Thanks for the post Pankaja, just like some other books and sites, this particular site is also a treasure trove!

 

The truth is available to all to be discovered, first look inside and then around.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

So this birth is just preparation...

-

 

Oh yes!

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

You would give me link to the particular article you recommended.