Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Hare Krishna I know the Mind is subtle energy, is it only a thing to delude us, when we become Pure and Liberated the mind dissapears. It seems everything in Religion is to do with controlling the Mind. Who made 'The Mind' king? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 The mind is illusion according to many. I don't know what Prabhupada or any learned other Hindu would say to this question but I'd like to give you another perspective, please check out the following links; some of the terminology might be confusing so you might want to read other Urantia papers or ask me a question or two: 1---------------- PAPER 42 - ENERGY--MIND AND MATTER: http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper42.html 2---------------- I have taken the following from http://tmarchives.com, the 'text' referred to below (in the Q&A) is a reference to The Urantia Book: Tom: In our text it says that mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to the evolving mortal soul, or something to that effect. Since we have a disparity of mind function, is the mind circuit we are loaned uniform in all of us, tempered by our genetics and the decisions that we make? Secondly, when we reach the morontia worlds I assume another mind is loaned to us. Is this mind based on the usage of the mind we have on this world? For example, if we were slothful, substance abusers, or selfish would that determine a greater or lesser degree of mind on the morontia worlds? Tomas: It is a big question. Perhaps I can attempt a response. Perhaps Elyon will embellish my response which will set aside for now the various personality manifestations of mind based upon on how you think as a creature. Define mind more as an energy system that is utilizable because you are sufficiently endowed with acumen that it can function. It is loaned to the mortals of the material existence much as electricity is used here or other essential fuels and tools of functioning in material existence. The morontia mind is the mind of the Universal Mother Spirit, infinite mind. That is the mind you aspire toward and in some cases are accomplishing or at least beginning to "grok". Yet you must use your human intellect, mortal mind, in order to function here and make those decisions which will enlarge and enhance your ability to depend upon the greater mind. You are given mind to use much as you are given your material body. It is a system of functioning which will serve in the development of your greater reality. Would you care to add, Elyon? Elyon (Jonathan): I have but one perspective and that is to relate to your current technological device, the computer, and illustrate that the components that drive the device, your chips and circuitry, can be compared to your neural structure and brain that have some inherent capabilities but that is their extent. When a computer is initiated with power, all you perceive on your screen is a prompt after which it will sit and wait for will to apply itself, for you to think. Your early computers required much operator input before any activity of a significant nature could take place. Now in the evolution of your technology you have operating systems that can provide a lot of your intelligence. Nebadonia has bestowed upon your physical structures the human operating system of mind. The operating systems you have today in your computers are specific to the computer, based upon the design and manufacture of that computer. Therefore, if you change to a different architecture, you must install a new operating system. This is why your intellect is a temporary loan, for when you step up to a new computer system, a new morontia vehicle, you can no longer use the operating system of human intellect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I heard the mind is reflection of the soul. But our minds are dirty {or the mirror is dirty}. Anything reflecting anywhere is normally not reality. Like you said "The mind is illusion according to many." Anybody shed some light on this.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 IMO the mind is not really dirty but it seems to be dirty or undisciplined if we don't take control of it. It is merely a tool for our soul to use while on this planet, if we don't control it, then it controls us. When we let our thoughts and emotions go rampant then it appears to be dirty or it, as you said, reflects our state. We must control it, or better still, we must surrender it to Krsna (God) so that he can do with it what he pleases. We can even ask that we slowly get his Mind instead or we start thinking the way He thinks! With love, Manu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Just like the mind which seems to have a life of it's own. It is often mistaken for your 'self'. Stupid mind. Beat that stupid thind. A brain-less computer. Giving me so many viruses in my hard-drive and cheap thrill soft ware. The mind is wicked. It turns on you at a moment's notice. Your 'besr' friend knowing all your faults an d ready to trip you up.So malicious and vindictive is the mind. Beat the silly mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 If you consider the mind as an enemy and as wicked then it becomes a adversary, instead make it a friend, use it as a tool that it's meant to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayaisvara Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 You know, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada has told to beat the mind 100 times when waking up and going to sleep. What does this beating up refers to? I don't understand how to beat the mind up, how does one do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 This devotee told me something interesting that Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja said the mind is like a proxy. I can't remember what this means exactly. Except the mind is like you said a tool to know God. Thats one thing.. In Gita it says the Mind is seperated energy of Krishna. Inferior. So is the mind always material? I thought when the Mind is purified it becomes spiritual. But if its material in 1st place how does it become spiritual? I know by chanting. But the Soul is spiritual, isn't the mind which is reflection of the soul also in its constitutional position spiritual? Oh Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Yes indeed it is Krsna's amazing play at hand. I would suggest that you not look at the various aspects of Godhead as separate or inferior. Maybe we should try to understand why they exist and take advantage of that knowledge or experience once we have it. IMO even the material is truly spiritual from the right perspective. So I totally agree with your last statement Pankaja! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Is to stay in Krsna Consciousness! I just came across this verse: Chapter 5 - Karma-yoga - Action in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness TEXT 29 bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-maheshvaram suhridam sarva-bhutanam jnatva mam shantim rcchati SYNONYMS bhoktāram — the beneficiary; yajña — of sacrifices; tapasām — and penances and austerities; sarva-loka — of all planets and the demigods thereof; mahā-īśvaram — the Supreme Lord; su-hṛdam — the benefactor; sarva — of all; bhūtānām — the living entities; jñātvā — thus knowing; mām — Me (Lord Kṛṣṇa); śāntim — relief from material pangs; ṛcchati — one achieves. TRANSLATION A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries. PURPORT The conditioned souls within the clutches of illusory energy are all anxious to attain peace in the material world. But they do not know the formula for peace, which is explained in this part of the Bhagavad-gita. The greatest peace formula is simply this: Lord Krishna is the beneficiary in all human activities. Men should offer everything to the transcendental service of the Lord because He is the proprietor of all planets and the demigods thereon. No one is greater than He. He is greater than the greatest of the demigods, Lord Shiva and Lord Brahma. In the Vedas (Shvetasvatara Upanishad 6.7) the Supreme Lord is described as tam ishvaranam paramam maheshvaram. Under the spell of illusion, living entities are trying to be lords of all they survey, but actually they are dominated by the material energy of the Lord. The Lord is the master of material nature, and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature. Unless one understands these bare facts, it is not possible to achieve peace in the world either individually or collectively. This is the sense of Krishna consciousness: Lord Krishna is the supreme predominator, and all living entities, including the great demigods, are His subordinates. One can attain perfect peace only in complete Krishna consciousness. This Fifth Chapter is a practical explanation of Krishna consciousness, generally known as karma-yoga. The question of mental speculation as to how karma-yoga can give liberation is answered herewith. To work in Krishna consciousness is to work with the complete knowledge of the Lord as the predominator. Such work is not different from transcendental knowledge. Direct Krishna consciousness is bhakti-yoga, and jnana-yoga is a path leading to bhakti-yoga. Krishna consciousness means to work in full knowledge of one’s relationship with the Supreme Absolute, and the perfection of this consciousness is full knowledge of Krishna, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A pure soul is the eternal servant of God as His fragmental part and parcel. He comes into contact with maya (illusion) due to the desire to lord it over maya, and that is the cause of his many sufferings. As long as he is in contact with matter, he has to execute work in terms of material necessities. Krishna consciousness, however, brings one into spiritual life even while one is within the jurisdiction of matter, for it is an arousing of spiritual existence by practice in the material world. The more one is advanced, the more he is freed from the clutches of matter. The Lord is not partial toward anyone. Everything depends on one’s practical performance of duties in Krishna consciousness, which helps one control the senses in every respect and conquer the influence of desire and anger. And one who stands fast in Krishna consciousness, controlling the abovementioned passions, remains factually in the transcendental stage, or brahma-nirvana. The eightfold yoga mysticism is automatically practiced in Krishna consciousness because the ultimate purpose is served. There is a gradual process of elevation in the practice of yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi. But these only preface perfection by devotional service, which alone can award peace to the human being. It is the highest perfection of life. Thus end the Fifth Chapter of the Srimad Bhagavad-gita in the matter of Karma-yoga, or Action in Krishna Consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Mind, Intelligence, False-ego these material 3 energies are covereing the Eternal soul. Also with its by-products the senses entrap the Mind. So I think I conclude the Mind is entrapment personified. The only problem with it is it's Impure. So anything Pure is spiritual yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I've got my Mind Set on You, I've got my Mind set on You" What did he mean? To Whom was he referring? Never MIND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I disagree that the mind is impure, our thoughts and tendencies may seem to make it'impure', by itself it isn't impure. IMO Mind doesn't entrap, it's a tool to take us to the next step, a tool to reach the Godhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Collective minds. Kind of like Borg mentality everybody works for one person. All minds in oneness. Individuality? So the mind is and wants individuality. Everybody wants to be different in some way or follow somebody to be 'like' them. What exactly does 'the mind' want? Split personality? Ah Tarunji I understand I am not the Mind, I am a soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 You are talking about Ego now I think. Some may clump Mind and Ego together, and they probably are, but in my understanding and experience they are two different things. The Ego is a facade we use to function in earthly life, the Mind is the container for it. We identify with the Ego as being our true self, which it isn't. Some thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 from Bhagavad Gita Chapter 6 5. "A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well." excerpt from purport "For man, mind is the cause of bondage and mind is the cause of liberation. Mind absorbed in sense objects is the cause of bondage, and mind detached from the sense objects is cause of liberation. Therefore, the mind which is always engaged in Krsna consciousness is the cause of supreme liberation." 6. "For he who has conquered the mind, it is the best of friends, but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy." So like you say from this it appears to be a tool that if used properly can be used to reach Godhead. In the Urantia book it appears that when a person prays to God for guidance God sends a thought adjuster to help train the mind. This to me seems consistant with the vedic conception of the living entity being predominated by the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 First things first whats the mind? Ego is maybe thinking you are the mind? Does that make 'sense' We are 'The Mind'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Great quotes, thanks Ancient Mariner! Interestingly the Urantia Book distinguishes between Soul, Mind, Personality and Spirit (Thought Adjuster). We are given a TA (Thought Adjuster) at the age of around 5. That is the God entity that we merge with, while maintaining our identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Pankaja you say: First things first whats the mind? Ego is maybe thinking you are the mind? Does that make 'sense' We are 'The Mind'. ----------- So my understanding is that Mind is what our essential being operates in, uses to live essentially. Ego is an artifact of our existence and is distinct from Mind while living in it. In a larger sense you're very right we are 'The Mind' because indeed there is a larger Mind that encompasses our beings. Notice how our conversation is going into the realm of the Mind! This is path of Jnana Yoga, which is good but the path of faith and devotion is easier! I'm sure you won't disagree. I believe that when we stay in Krsna Conciousness as much as possible then things of the Mind and Intellect also make more sense as appropriate. Some more thoughts, sorry for the confusion that I'm helping create!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 This is path of Jnana Yoga I was talking to a devotee, I said me thinking about this 'Mind' etc. Isn't it that Maya is catching me to become a Buddist? /images/graemlins/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpuri Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 He he, but won't that be good too? You with what you know, plus all the Mindal benefits of being a Buddhist!! The best of both worlds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 In my past life maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I have also wondered often about the make-up of the mind. I still don't understand. Prabhupada did say it was a type of fume from the soul. Subtle things don't often fit well into our language structure. Maybe we have to intuite it to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Yes. Tame it with chanting like a snake charmer! Mind is subtle so what can work on it except something which is supirior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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