Voting

[Guest guest]

How did Srila prabhupada feel about voting? Elections in USA are approching.

[AncientMariner]

I am not sure what he felt about voting but correct me if I am wrong but I don't think he was too enthusiastic about democracy as a form of government. Apparently the Kali-yuga is noted for the decline in monarchy and in past ages the people were ruled by a self realized king or at least by a ruler who was being advised by self realized brahmanas. I guess the problem with democracy is that the people just end up electing the person that promises to fulfill their needs for sense gratification but not necessarily engage them in something that helps develop their Krishna Consciousness.

[theist]

Myself I'll vote if I see a difference in the canidates on several major issues. Abortion is at the top of my list. The next president may have the oppurtunity to appoint three justices to the Supreme Court. Currently it's a 5 to 4 split in favor of abortion rights. Just one more vote against abortion from that body and we could reverse Rowe v. Wade.

 

Kerry will appoint justices that support aboertion rights.

 

I believe denying a soul a human form is a tremendous sin because it denies them the vehicle to approach God. It also entangles the woman having the abortion by entangling her in karma which will necessitate her being aborted in the future. A most viscious cycle.

 

Ksatriyas have a duty to protect the innocent. Who is more helpless than a child in the womb?

[mpuri]

Good points, I agree with you. It behooves us to participate in the government of our time, we can help change it.

[Kulapavana]

citizens in a democratic society have a duty to vote. if you just allow big asuras to be elected you bear some responsibility for it. not voting does the same thing. if you dont like both Bush or Kerry, vote the third party. third party candidates have no chance of winnig but at least you will not actively or passively support either of the main villains.

 

personally, I think the Libertarian Party has the closest platform to both the Vedic ideal and the ideals of the founding fathers of USA.

[Guest guest]

I can't understand why so many Americans put abortion at the top of their issues list when there is really little that the president can do about it.

 

There are far greater concerns. As a matter of fact, the main reason for NOT voting Bush and company is their pandering to the religious right, those obscurantists, for bending over backwards to cater to big business, economic mismanagement, mismanagement of the war, lying brazenly to the American people about the reasons for the war, for promoting a new American imperialism rather than far-sighted internationalism, for defending Israel at all costs rather than seeking true solutions to the Palestine situation, and the list goes on. Every one of those issues could be subdivided into many disastrous subsections.

 

And besides that, I look at Bush's smug smirking self-righteous face and I want to shove a lemon meringue pie into it. You trust this guy? You believe in anything he says? What's worse, you think he's in control?

[Kulapavana]

"What's worse, you think he's in control?"

 

anybody who thinks an obvious moron like Bush ascended to US presidency on his own merit should be checked by a doctor for brain damage. Bush is just a puppet of some very dark forces at play in this world. I doubt Kerry is much better. Both are Bonesmen to the core.

 

 

they use single issues (which they won't or can't control anyway) like abortion to ensure votes from "naive but religious" crowd.

[AncientMariner]

The way I look at it the liberal think tanks produce a good number of educated psuedo-intellectual morons. At least a genuine bonafide moron has a 50% chance of getting it right. Sorry, just kidding around.

[theist]

 

I can't understand why so many Americans put abortion at the top of their issues list when there is really little that the president can do about it.

 

 

Is that you mahak? forget to sign in?

 

Please reread my above statments on the Supreme Court.

 

[stonehearted]

AncientMariner: The way I look at it the liberal think tanks produce a good number of educated psuedo-intellectual morons. At least a genuine bonafide moron has a 50% chance of getting it right. Sorry, just kidding around.

 

You're right, though. The liberals are almost as good at producing pseudo-intellectuals as the conservative ones. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[stonehearted]

theist is right about the reason many conservatives respond to the abortion issue by voting for Republican presidential candidates. They hope for a Court that will overturn Roe. And, considering the age of the justices, you can count on the next president appointing at least one Supreme. If it's Bush, I think the Chief has indicated he'll retire. One or two are older than he is, including the most liberal member (appointed, ironically, by Reagan). So the anti-abortion GOP folks are looking for a drastic shift.

 

I agree that for those in household life, at least, voting is a part of responsible citizenship. I have the strongest sympathy for those who decline to vote because there are no candidates to vote for. My first election was 1968 (we had to be 21 to vote then), and I voted for Dick Gregory for president because there was no way I could vote for Humphrey or Nixon. I didn't vote for a long time after that (the devotee thing), and I most often vote for third-party candidates, at least for president. I'd love to see a third party rise to challenge the stranglehold the two bigs have on our system. While they're not the exactly Tweedledee and Tweedledum that Nader sees, their dominance precludes any real choice and any real change. In fact, I helped start a third party here in Hawaii in 1976. 28 years later, the people behind that effort have devotees in office around the state, and a viable candidate for the US House of Representatives.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, theist, no, that wasnt me. Abortion is the top of my list as well, but I go by facts, not anti-christian rhetoric. After Coschescu the former bloodthirsty dictator of Romania, was staunchly anti-abortion.

 

The bottom line is to reduce abortions, to make society a good place to bring children into the world. Republicans support the end of roe-wade, but they have no plan for educating the youth, providing support for mothers with reprehensible and abusive husbands, etc. It is a whole system that needs to be cannged, not just one court decision.

 

The facts support the decline in abortions in the clinton era, facts sup[port skyrocketing abortions during reagan-bush sr reigns. I have not kept up, but im sure with the medical expenses skyrocketing, the lack of support for mothers, non existant children-friendly programs, Im sure the actual decision making process faced by one under the gun leans toward abortion in fascist type, poverty hating (meaning those in poverty, not poverty itself), minority hating fools running things.

 

Cant legislate morality anyway. Overturning r-w will create more problems than solved. Abortion can be controlled, and minimized, by the government having compaqssion for the least among us, but this regime, while wanting to protect the fetus, could care less after the birth.

 

Haribol, abortion is a dead issue, republicans and demnocrats will not touch it, it is now disguised as stem cell research, but you can get stem cells from the liposuctionist as easily as the abortionist. Non-issue. The only issue is IRAQ and how the military youth is being aborted for no valid reason, and ben ladin is free to do as he will, courtesy of the heritage foundation of oil magnates.

 

There, thats me, no imposters have the grip.

 

I am pro choice, anti abortion. By being pro choice, I defy the margarat sangers of the world who will never give options to those seeking help. Most pro abortionists are anti choice, in fact they outlaw discussion of aqbstinance alternative. And most anti-choice folks are bloodthirsty rascists and bigots who could care less about abortions on the reservations, refugee camps, and other dark meat areas.

 

mad mahax

[theist]

That is so very unfortunate. It's murder in my eyes.

[Guest guest]

And to do away with that is criminal. Mankind is given freedom to choose the service to Krsna or his external feature of maya. Krsna has the power to force us to love him, but this is not love, this is criminal act.

 

My teacher explains that without choice, love is rape. I love that girl, and do not give her the choice to love back but force my love on her.

 

The free choice to love back, thisw is the sweetness of real love.

 

Of course, abortion is murder. But the freedom to choose to murder or protect cannot be legislated away.

 

My platform is freedom to choose to protect that which one has taken on by the reproductive act. Such protection is chosen freely in a supportive society, this is what Im saying. The anti choice folks want to make the single- poverty stricken moms have the babies, then they have no support system in place, and they die in the streets anyway.

 

XSure its murder, but so is post partum murder, abuse, and all the horrid things a society who is blessed with unprecedented material facility suffers by its own discompassion of aNYONE ALREADY BORN. i MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THE POSITION OF THE ANTI CHOICE FOLKS if they didnt have such utter disdain for all those who are already born, and not a member of their antichrist church, race, culture, or political bloc. To be a purist in such matters, one must renounce the World Bank, the #1 killer of babies. Is any anti-choice proponant ready to do that?

 

respectfully yours, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

I also have equal disdain for the margaret saqnger/planned parenthood nazis as well. The are as anti-choice as the most conservative republican. They do not teach choice, they propose forced abortion, the coerce kids to get abortions without parental support or even knowledge. This position is reprehensible. A good alternative to overruling roe-vs-wade would be to enforce laws already in the books.

 

While working for the US Navy, a workmate was a genius female of 17 years of age. Once she cut her hand and had to go to the dispensary. She could not be treated for a laceration caused by a device of nuclear warfare until her parents were notified.

 

However, If she were to want an abortion, a horrific surgical procedure of both physiologic and worse psychological consequences, she could have had such things done because of these Joseph Mengele disciples, the planned Parenthood Bloc.

 

I would welcome legislation to enforce free choice and remove the fascist power the Sangerites have in todays society.

 

yo bro, mahak

[theist]

So we may as well do away with all laws concerning murder and just try to educate people to be good little boys and girls and not kill. But if they do "well, that's their choice"

 

Yes murders happen anyway law or not. But many are prevented by those laws. And when one occurs the law gives recourse to take the offender, the one who made the wrong choice, out of society to think about making the right choice next time.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, theist. If it was an easy issue, it would have been solved. I ve been involved in right to life issues for many years, and I have no clue as to what is proper. I agree with what you say here. My problem i guess is siding with hypocrites. I do not go for folks who make principles for others to follow.

 

To change back to the initial topic, Im voting for kerry for a good reason. Democrats have the ability to say they have made a mistake. Clinton did as well. He publically beegged the pardon, maybe a little late, but he still stated his imperfection.

 

Bush cannot do that. He dont drink any more, but he has the same egomania of an alcoholic, meaning everything he does is right, even the lies, even the butchering of our military, even the homeland security being wasted in Iraq, where there were no terrorists, but now there are plenty.

 

He will die sayiong he perfectly performed the duties of the president, just as his daddy, just as reagan. Only nixon was contrite, but even him, later, be4came puffed up again when he was recognized fror his statesmanship.

 

Only the humble can rule. Only the likes of King Yudhisthira, his quality of forebearance4, his admission of being overwhelmed by world events. I cant toleratre these arrogant republicans who think they are doing the work of jesus.

 

I know kerry aint perfect, but so does he, so he has earned my vote. For that reason alone.

 

Abortion? Only one of hundreds of issues. Like I said, I would not have liked the stalinist ruler of romania, coscezcu, because he was against abortion, and killed mothers and physicians that did such a thing. Bush aint no different. A ruthless butcher who claims to be ordered by jesus is still a butcher, and al qaida is still powerful, more powerful than they were when he declared war on them. So he is a failure, and me and my americans are going to fire him.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

I have decided to vote for Bush but if Kerry wins I will do my best to try and support him at least for the sake of the troops overseas. I can't guarantee I won't make fun of him behind closed doors by calling him the windup lawyer (windup his engine and he goes into high gear lawyer speak). I am not into all that protesting stuff so like I say I'll do my best to support him but I can't guarantee that if he kicks into hardcore liberal mode and starts the big government milk off the man policy too much that I won't try to subvert his control in subtle ways.