What is GAUDIYA vaisnavism?

October 15, 2004

***Kindly read the following transcipt,and be careful who you acuse of being a sahajiya. Srila B.V. Naryana Maharja has written more clearly about the dangers of sahajiyaism than you can appreciate. If Vaisnava aparahda is acceptable on this forum then I am not interested in any further participation.

Sahajya it is pfilosophical point. If you make sambhoda as goal GV it is sahajiya vada. This not any vaisnava aparadha. Needs understand first what means "sahajya" then write about sahajiya.

***At the time of his divine departure from this world, Parama-pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja ordered me, “You should serve me in my taking samadhi.” He knew the meaning and significance of entering samadhi, and what should be done at that time.

No, because His disciple was be yang then Prabhupada recuest Narayana Prabhu do this. Prabhupada write about Narayana Svami - "be careful Sriman Narayana will be take power ISKCON". Some devotee serve Prabhupada all life IT IS best. If you serve Prabhupada read His book, destribute cultural, then it is more nice. Sanyas do not has so big as destribution. Prabhupada use Narayana prabhu it is good for His purification. Needs follow for acarya and no needs use acarya, no needs do politics and self glorifications.

***Samadhi is a Sanskrit word consisting of the two syllables: sama-dhi. Sama means “the same” and dhi means “intelligence”. It means that the pure devotee who is departing from this world

Prabhupada write - I am stay in me books. Do not need make dead Prabhupada. Narayana Prabhu do not follower Prabhupada, this CEREMONY samadhi do not has big spiritual.

***Srila Svami Maharaja’s

Prabhupada speak - if some speak "Svami Maharaja" he is envious. You follow for envious person.

***worshipful deity is Srimati Radhika, and he is serving Her under the guidance of Her personal associates, the manjaris, headed by Sri Rupa Manjari.

He is in sakhya. Your guru do not know own svarupa, then he is not know svarupa Prabhupada. Main deities Prabhupada it is Gaura Nitay. Prabhupada preach gaura vani, and no follow yours sahajya interpritation.

***I am determined in the fact that his worshipful deity is Srimati Radhika, and he sees Sri Krsna as Radhika’s beloved.

Krisna beloved Radhikas. Ravana was desire stay as "beloved" Sita. You repeat some pfrase do not knowing his means.

***His desire was to assist Srimati Radhika in Her desire to serve Sri Krsna in many various ways. He wanted at that time to be one with the mood of Her maidservants, and in that very place where She renders Her service.

No it is wrong. Narayana Prabhu very good for samadhi dead body Prabhupada only.

***Sri Rupa Manjari serves Srimati Radhika when Radhika wants to meet Krsna.

It is Krisna lila. You understand THEORETICAL only Krisna lila. You think about Krisna lila in material terms, it is sahajiya. Lord Caitanya never discuss this theme in publik. Discuss this theme it is sahajiya.

***She gives so much uddipana (stimuli) to Srimati Radhika’s bhava. For example, at the time of dressing Her she may put on a necklace which has as its centerpiece the syamantaka jewel.

If you listen kanistha adhicari it is useless. It is story for make buisnes.

***If one can serve his Gurudeva in this mood, that is, in his Gurudeva’s service to Sri Rupa Manjari or Sri Radhika, this is the best service to Gurudeva.

NO. NO. It is only sambhoga Krisna lila, Prabhupada write - "sambhoga for neophits". If you stay in Krisna lila - it is good, but you do not stay in Krisna lila, you guru do some meditation for krisna lila it is good, but he is not has real relation. AND YOU do not has real relation. Yours Narayana Maharaja so many speak about another devotees as "kalicelas", "kanisthas" and so on then take Prabhu this "kanisthas - kalicelas" for himself. it is more true.

***I do not know why he gave me so much mercy that he chose me to give him some uddipana as he entered his samadhi. I performed this service by decorating him with tilaka and writing certain sacred mantras on his chest with sandlewood paste – indicating his services to his worshipful deity, Srimati Radhika.

Prabhupada deiteies stey in Vrindavan. His dities Krisna-Balaram in Krisna lila. But in Gaura lila Prabhupada stay in direct mood radharani, but it is not sahajiya "krisna lila's".

***Just before his departure from this world, he requested me to sing Sri Rupa-Manjari-.* (See Endnote 1):

sri rupa manari-., sei more sampada,

sei mora bhajana-pujana

It is vipralambha mood. I am wrote about this.

***["The lotus feet of Sri Rupa Manjari are my dearmost treasure. They are the topmost object of my worship and inner devotional practices.]

You do not understand who it means. You and you friend do not has right make commentary in this theme, you spoil pure devotional servise - it is aparadha.

***This is the best sankirtana of Sri Rupa Manjari, who can lead us to Radhika’s service.

Do not listen some gurus, listen this person you do not understand Rupa Gosvami never.

***I did what Srila Svami Maharaja ordered me to do for him and I feel so fortunate that he gave me this service; and I did the same for my Gurudeva at the time of his entering samadhi.

Yes, Prabhupada will be theach all real devotional servise.

***Just before his departure, Srila Svami Maharaja told me, “You should advise and help my disciples and all devotees connected with me.”

Prabhupada speak in FOLIO - "Sriman Narayana will be take power ISKCON BE CAREFULL". It is document.

***It is sometimes thought that Srila Svami Maharaja is only in sakhya-rasa – that is, in his constitutional spiritual form he is a cowherd friend of Krsna. When I hear this I experience pain in my heart,

All rasas in ONE spiritual level. No needs descriminate in rasas on material level.

Prabhupada in madhurya rasa in Gaura lila.

***nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai

Prabhupada write this for all rases. Need true understanding.

***Only one who is equal to his self-realized Guru can understand how deep he is. A kanistha-adhikari, neophyte, and a madhyama-adhikari, middle class devotee, cannot guess how deep are his feelings – what are the fathomless moods of krsna-prema and radha-prema in his heart. Without being an uttama-adhikari, a topmost pure devotee, one cannot understand.

Yes is some guru kanistha then as he is understand? If you not understand Lord Caitanya then needs search nice guru.

***I become moved – knowing that he is engaged in nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai.

Ramananda ray is Arjuna.

***But he had to spend a great deal of time laying the groundwork by preaching vaidhi-bhakti.

Srila Prabhupada preach real raganuga bhakti, but I am doubth for you be able understand this.

***Srila Sarasvati Thakura

He is speak do not read Ujjvala nilamani.

***jungles of atheism, mayavada, sahajiyaism

Yes, He is stop all sahajiya.

***and other non-Vedic philosophies.

Yes, good, nice.

***Srila Svami Maharaja desired to give the service performed by the gopis to Gopi-jana-vallabha,

ALL who desire prabhupada He is WRITE in His books.

***but he saw that there were only a few in this world who were qualified for this – the number could be counted on ones fingers. In order to gradually bring his audiences to a level wherein they could understand, he preached about Lord Jaganatha-deva and established deities of Sri Sita-Rama and Sri Krsna-Balarama.

It is speculation. Spiritual mood eternal, it is all danger speculation offenders Srila Parbhupada.

***The gopis have spoken about Rama-Krsna (Balarama is sometimes called Rama) in Srimad-bhagavatam, but they were not actually referring to Rama meaning Balarama. They were indicating Ramanya-Krsna; that is, Krsna, the enjoyer of Sri Radha.

It is silly, theoretical, useles speculation.

***Their Rama is Krsna Himself.

needs listen self realised souls. Theory do not help.

***If I can render this service to his lotus feet – to give an atom of the feelings of these exalted conceptions to his disciples and followers, I will render him the best service.

Prabhupada speak destribute HIS books, you destribute? You atom?

***2. To explain the topmost quality of conjugal love, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami gives the example of the material elements—sky, air, fire, water and earth. In the sky (space) there is the quality of sound. Similarly, in air there are the qualities of sound and touch. In fire, there are three qualities—sound, touch and form. In water there are four qualities—sound, touch, form and taste. Finally, in earth there are all five qualities—sound, touch, form, taste and also smell. Now, one can see that the quality of the sky is in all—namely in air, fire, water and earth. In earth we can find all the qualities of material nature. The same can be applied to the rasa known as madhurya-rasa, or conjugal love. In conjugal love there are the qualities of neutrality, servitorship, fraternity and parental affection, as well as those of conjugal love itself. The conclusion is that through conjugal love the Lord is completely satisfied.

Soul has eternal rasa, rasa do not come from rasa guru. If you neutral, then you neutral. Rasa disciple and rasa guru do not for all one. It is material theory - you guru madhueya I am madhurya. It is material theory. All rases good, first person come in santa rasa, krisna speak - "Nobody do not come for Me witout santa rasa". Spiritual science it is big theme if person do not understand greatness God, then he is be sahajya- vada.

***3. Conjugal love (madhurya-rasa) is also known as srngara-rasa. It is the conclusion of Srimad-Bhagavatam that in the complete combination of loving service to the Lord—namely in conjugal love—the Supreme Lord fully agrees to be under the control of the devotee. (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila, 8.88)]

If you tree in spiritual world then you kill himself? /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

***Editor: Syamarani dasi

It is aparaha - change name. He is not above Prabhupada change name Prabhupada disciple. Prabhupada may save both from hell. may be.

October 15, 2004

***BOYCOTT THE SAHAJIYA-BABAJIS

(Holland, June 10, 2001, am)

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20010610am_OLD.shtml

This about caupinas? What about gaudiya mood?

October 15, 2004

***The disciples of Srila Prabhupada worship His Divine Grace as the dearmost servant of Srimati Radharani in the line of Sri Rupa Goswami. I must therefore beg forgiveness at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada and before all of you, the listeners and readers, for any fault or offense that I have committed in my attempt to glorify His Divine Grace.

They do not understand Rupa Gosvami. Listen this sahajyas then person do not able understand.

***We shall always remember Srila Prabhupada, our eternal father, as the empowered representative of the most glorious and beautiful queen of Sri Vrndavana, Srimati Radharani, and we shall forever aspire for the shelter of his lotus feet. What follows are eight transcendental remembrances of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's manifest pastimes in Sri Chaitanyadeva's ongoing sankirtana-lila, all of which point to his eternal service in the camp of Sri Radha.

It is wrong, He is camp Krisna.

Needs follow for Srila Prabhupada and not concoction. needs stay in ISKCON humble.

Prabhupada avesa Lord Caitanya.

October 15, 2004

Gopis it is sakhya for Radha, and madhurya for Krisna. Manjaris it is dasya for Radha. It is dasya rasa for Radha- Krisna.

Ouer panditas confuse in so many scriptures.

October 15, 2004

Saranagati

When I left the mission of my Guru Maharaja after his disappearance,I came here quite helpless. I had to find my shelter and so I began tothe books that I had. What I received from my Guru Maharaja,I began to research the references in the scriptures. I tried to dive deep, to collect the very basis of real devotional life. I found that it is saranagati, surrender; and wherever I found the verses recommending and relating to that, I tried my best to collect them and compile the nectar in the life of one who has fully surrendered himself to the feet of the Divine Lord. That is Sri Sri Prapanna-jivanamrtam. Paramananda Brahmacari was perhaps the seniormost of all our godbrothers. At the age of 13 he came to our Guru Maharaja. He was one of the earliest disciples of our Guru Maharaja, seniormost. Paramananda said that he read one chapter of Prapanna-jivanamrta every day. In Prapanna-jivanamrta we have collected many valuable passages from many saints and arranged them according to specific categories. There are so many sayings of so many great devotees and they are all very beautifully arranged and placed there.

In my study I found that saranagati alone is sufficient to produce all sorts of development in bhakti. Nothing else is necessary, so try your best to pursue saranagati, and automatically everything will come to you from the other side. Your business will only be to adhere to saranagati to the most intense degree possible. Saranagati is enough, but without it devotion cannot stand. The greatness and the substance of saranagati has been sung, praised and

appreciated in such a way. The surrendering disposition is the very basis. "I am for You. You may utilize me, or You may neglect me, still I am Yours. You may accept or reject me, but You are my master. You are independent and may deal with me in any way You like. You can put me in eternal hell, or You can take me on Your lap. You have

every right over me." With such a heart we must approach our Lord. That is noble, that is divine. We can find the highest degree of divinity in our self-effacement, our self-surrender. That is the real expression of the negative towards the positive. The negative cannot exist without the positive, and so too the positive cannot exist without the negative. In the words of our Guru Maharaja,

Radha and Krsna are the predominated and predominating Moieties. Two Moieties-two halves of the one whole. One predominated and one predominating, but both have equal importance in their existence. One cannot stand without the other, and the fullest expression of this principle is Radha-Govinda.

Our mantra, our guru-parampara, the Rupanuga-Sampradaya, all

point towards this principle. In support of this we find dasya-rasa, sakhya-rasa vatsalya-rasa, and others. But the principal direction is towards madhurya-rasa. They are leading us to the full rasa. All others are partial, subordinate and subservient-supplemental to the main rasa, madhurya-rasa. But that supplemental service is also

necessary. Madhurya-rasa does not stand alone. It must have its paraphernalia: the friends, the parents, all must be there with this rasa. Those who have an inner liking for such rasa are so fortunate!

Vasudeva Datta has said,

yadi gaura na ha'ta, tabe ki haita, kemane dharitam de

radhara mahima, prema-rasa-sima, jagate janata ke?

"If Mahaprabhu had not appeared then how could we sustain our lives? How could we live? What type of ecstatic rasa has He imbibed that we have been able to have a little taste? Without this our lives would be impossible. Who else could take us to the acme of realization of the position of Srimati Radharani? She is the greatest victim to the consuming capacity of Sri Krsna. She stands as the

greatest sacrifice before Krsna's infinite consuming power. Rasaraja- Mahabhava—the rasa is there, and She is the drawer of that rasa from the storehouse. She has such negative capacity that She can draw out the rasa to the highest degree both in quality and quantity."

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja said, "My guru is

Radharani. She will be very gracious to You, Krsna, if You help me indischarging the order of my Gurudeva, if You help me in my propaganda work."

krsna taba punya habe bhai, e-punya koribe jabe

radharani khusi habe dhruva ati boli toma tai

"If You seek anything, if You are in want of anything, Krsna, then that is the good will of Radharani. And She will be pleased with You if You help me, because I am attempting to carry out the order of one whom is none other than Srimati Radharani personified. So You must help me." Krsna had no alternative but to come down to him and help in his propaganda work. He had to come. Svami Maharaja was such a great friend of mine! He went away, but he is still with me through you. He is so kind to me! He is forcibly engaging me. Where else shall we get such a good friend, such a kind friend?"

Follow The Angels Pgs.151-154/ Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja

October 15, 2004

kailasa,

your remarks lack any scriptural reference. Read this:

://bvml.org/contemporary/tsps.htm

excerpt:

"One clear example of your ignorance was the case of the funeral services for your Gurudeva. Your Gurudeva wished that H.H. Narayana Maharaja put him to rest in his Samadhi. To you it may have seemed that your Prabhupada was only speaking about funeral services. This is due only to your ignorance and lack of experience in the Vedic culture. It is the custom of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as well as other vaisnavas and smarta sampradayas that only the successor of the departed acarya has the right to perform his funeral rites. When the body is offered to the fire the eldest son of a departed grihasta had the priority to touch the fire on to the body of the departed parent. When it is offered to the soil mixed with salt (as it happens mostly in the case of the Gaudiyas and other sampradayas departed sannyasis) the successor of that sannyasi has the right to write the Samadhi mantra on the body of the departed sannyasi. If the successor is not a sannyasi (as was in the case of Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) then the senior most godbrother present there can write it as well as any other exalted vaisnava. In the case of Prabhupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the Samadhi mantra was written by his first sannyasa disciple Srila Bhakti Pradipa Tirtha Maharaja, though he himself was an initiated disciple of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. If a sannyasi has departed without leaving a successor or without making any disciples, then the assembled vaisnavas must choose a qualified vaisnava to do the ceremony . Even the Hindu laws of India consider it at the time of dispute for succession the person who did perform the rituals at the time of the funerals, giving him main preference.

So you have to consider that although so many vaisnavas were present in Vrindavana at that time including most of your sannyasi godbrothers, your Gurudeva chose Narayana Maharaja to place him in his Samadhi. In the ISKCON video it is clearly seen that Narayana Maharaja is writing the Samadhi-mantra on the body of your Gurudeva. You cannot make a mockery out of this."

October 15, 2004

Taking Srila Prabhupada Straight

by Sripad Bhakti Vidagdha Bhagawat Maharaja

[A letter from His Holiness Bhakti Vidagdha Bhagawat Maharaja, as an answer to Sriman Ravindra Swarupa's letter on His Holiness Srimad Bhakti Vedanta Narayana Maharaja.]

http://bvml.org/contemporary/tsps.htm

October 15, 2004

HERA-PANCAMI

[CHAPTER SEVEN OF THE ORIGIN OF RATHA-YATRA]

The difference between Vrndavana and Dvaraka

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20030704.shtml

tomara thakura, dekha eta sampatti chadi'

patra-phala-phula-lobhe gela puspa-badi

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-lila 14.207)

[Then the maidservants of the goddess of fortune said to the servants of Lord Jagannatha:] Why did your Lord Jagannatha abandon the great opulence of the goddess of fortune and, for the sake of a few leaves, fruits, and flowers, go see the flower garden of Srimati Radharani?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja wrote these translations; I am not saying all this. He has translated the verses, and I am only reading them, so I am not "guilty." If anyone says, "Narayana Maharaja is a sahajiya and that is why he is saying all these things," then my Siksa-guru, Srila Swami Maharaja, must be a greater sahajiya than me. He will be the guru of the sahajiyas, and Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, who has written Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, will be the maha-guru of all sahajiyas. If that is the case, there is no harm in being "sahajiya." If all my gurus are "sahajiya," I will also want to be "sahajiya." Actually, those who criticize may claim to be in the line of Mahaprabhu, but they are not in the line of our guru-parampara, of Rupa-Raghunatha, or of Svarupa Damodara. Others may say whatever they like,but we will remain very securely in the line of Svarupa Damodara. We follow Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, and we follow his translations:

"Your master is so expert at everything. Why does He do such things? Please bring your master before the goddess of fortune." In this way, all the maidservants of the goddess of fortune arrested the servants of Jagannatha, bound them around the waist, and brought them before the goddess of fortune. When all the maidservants brought Lord Jagannatha's servants before the lotus feet of the goddess of fortune, the Lord's servants were fined and forced to submit. All the maidservants began to beat the ratha with sticks, and they treated the servants of Lord Jagannatha almost like thieves. (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-lila 14.208?11))

**********************************

The Appearance Day Of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

Germany: February 21, 2003

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20030221a.shtml

excerpt:

". . . I want to speak something about the glories of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada. If this maha-purusa, great, self-realized soul, had not descended in this world, no one would have known the meaning of pure bhakti. No one would have known the identity of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, the book Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, or the books and glory of the Gosvamis.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura gave us two jewels. One is the holy birthplace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He manifested Gaura-dhama. Before him, no one knew where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu had taken birth. No one knew where Sridhama Mayapura was actually located. Secondly, he gave the jewel of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, who preached throughout the world and universe the glory of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Nityananda Prabhu, the rupanuga vicara-dhara (the conceptions of the disciplic line of Srila Rupa Gosvami), and the glories of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Before the birth of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and after the disappearance of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Srila Narottama Thakura, Sri Syamananda Prabhu, Srinivas Acarya, and especially Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, pure bhakti was covered. The sahajiyas' ideas were spread throughout Sri Vraja-dhama and Sri Navadvipa dhama. Their influence prevailed and there were hardly any real Vaisnavas.

In the name of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, His philosophy and His prema-dharma, the sahajiyas were degraded in character and most sinful. To live with another man's widow, to dance and sing with them, and to smoke cigarettes and drink wine with them – this was their idea of parakiya and vaisnava-dharma. Because of their influence, none of the learned and aristocratic persons even wanted to hear the name "Gaudiya Vaisnavas", what to speak of follow them. They hated Gaudiya Vaisnavas. throughout the world and universe There are eleven sahajiya groups, like gaura-nagari, sakhi-bekhi, Aul Baul, and so on. In India, their main function was widow-bhajana. They maintained their lives by doing professional kirtanas during funeral processions. After following a dead body and singing, they would receive a donation from the deceased relatives. True vaisnava-dharma is completely pure, but all aristocratic persons began to hate it and were thus in danger. "

October 15, 2004

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

MEETING IS HIGHER THAN SEPARATION

Hilo, Hawaii: January 13, 2003 part 2

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20030113.shtml

Excerpt:

". . . Some persons say that vipralambha is higher than sambhoga. Onlya neutral person can say this. Such neutral persons alone can say that it is good if the gopis only see Krsna in their trance. Such persons can say that although the gopis want to embrace Krsna, it is better if Krsna's association comes to them by their mood of separation. It is better that they always meeting Him in their mood of separation, as they close their eyes and remember Him in their hearts. Such neutral persons think that the gopis' separation is very good, and such persons are like Akrura and Kamsa, who have no desirefor the meeting of Radha and Krsna. Akrura can say, "Take Krsna from Vraja. Let the Vrajavasis feel separation; they should be always feeling separation." And Kamsa will be very happy to say, "Bring Krsna here to Mathura, and I willkill Him there."

These two persons can speak in this way, but no Vrajavasi wants Krsna to be separated from Vraja. Not even a plant, creeper, or bird of Vrndavana wants Krsna to leave Vraja. No one there wants the Vrajavasis to feel separation. None of them think, "Separation is so high." And what to speak of the gopis? What to speak of Lalita and Visakha, and Rupa Manjariand Rati Manjari?

Those who are confidential servants of Srimati Radhika, and who have more affection for Her than for Krsna, never desire Her separation from Krsna. In fact, Vrajavasis like Lalita and Visakha, and palya-dasis like Rupa Manjari, Rati Manjari, and Kamala Manjari, cannot tolerate the separationof Radhika from Krsna at all. Do you know who is Kamala Manjari? In her sadhaka form she (he) is Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

In his song, Sri Krsna Virahe, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes: "I cannot bear to see the feelings of separation of Radhika":

sri krsna-virahe, radhikara dasa, ami to sahite nari

yugala milana, sukerea karana, jivana chadite pari

["I am absolutely unable to tolerate Sri Radhika's pitiable condition when She is suffering in separation from Sri Krsna, but I am fully prepared to immediately give up my life for the sake of Their happy reunion."]

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is weeping as he writes, "When Radhika laments in divyon-mada, in the transcendental madness of separation from Krsna she displayed in Brahmara-gita (Radhika speaking with a bumblebee) and at other times, I cannot bear it. I don’t want Krsna to leave Radhika.He should always remain with Her in Vraja." He continues, "I cannot tolerate the separation of Radhika for Krsna, but I can easily give up my life if thatwill help to bring Krsna to Her." This is the mood of the palya-dasis of Radhika."

vijay · October 16, 2004

"the custom of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as well as other vaisnavas and smarta sampradayas that only the successor of the departed acarya has the right to perform his funeral rites. When the body is offered to the fire the eldest son of a departed grihasta had the priority to touch the fire on to the body of the departed parent. When it is offered to the soil mixed with salt (as it happens mostly in the case of the Gaudiyas and other sampradayas departed sannyasis) the successor of that sannyasi has the right to write the Samadhi mantra on the body of the departed sannyasi"

He asked narayan maharaj to do it has his disciples didnt know how to.

If he wanted narayan maharaj to be acarya of iskcon or have any special position in ISKCON he would have said so, Prabhupada was very explicit when he wanted something done he would just suggest it in a way that only "devotees that really understand prabhupada" would understand, he would either issue a leeter to the society, have a meeting with senior diciples and gbc, write it in his books or repeat the instruction many times. He did this for relatively trivial issues. So to say that just because srila prabhupada had narayan maharaj do his samadhi it meant something which prabhupada himself never said is a mokery to how prabhupada did things. Even if he knew of some esoteric secret meaning that prabhupadas diciples are incapable of knowing, his diciples follow what prabhupada has ordered explicitly as many gm gurus find some hidden meanings which contradict what prabhupada has said explicitly and thus guru x is acarya of iskcon.

October 16, 2004

this samadhi stuff is not a big problem, simply is to be considered that when the father goes away it is naturale to ask instructions to the uncles

yes, it is difficult sometimes to deal with the fact that it is unavoidable to find discrepances between father and uncles, but was it better to leave everything to the inexperience of ten years old sons ?

i think that it is not difficult to answer

October 16, 2004

vijay,

Try to understand the principle of disciplic succession has more to do with siksa than institutional positions. Real acaryas in our guru parampara are not concerned with such matters.

Chapter Three-Sri Guru And His Grace

Descent of the Revealed Truth

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/sri_guru/sri_guru_3.html

Krsna consciousness, the spiritual conception of the highest level, descends by flowing down from one level to the next, just as from the peak of a mountain, the Ganges flows in a zigzag way, from one peak to another. Sometimes the water of the Ganges mixes with the current of the river Saraswati. That water is not to be considered Ganges water. When the water of the Saraswati joins the current of the Ganges, it is considered to be Ganges water. When the two rivers meet, the water that flows away from the Ganges is not the Ganges; but when the Saraswati's waters enter into the current of the Ganges, it becomes the Ganges. That water will purify us, whatever its point of origin may have been. There is a saying that whatever water is deep within the current of the Ganges riverbed, is the real Ganges water. That water will purify us, whatever its point of origin may have been.

The purifying potency of the water has nothing to do with the water we can feel and see. What can we see with our physical eyes? The current of the Ganges is pure. When the spirit and sanction is there, it is a living thing, and can purify everyone.

Dead Mantras

So, the very gist of the guru parampara, the disciplic succession, is siksa, the spiritual teaching, and wherever it is to be traced, there is guru. One who has the transcendental eye, the divine eye, will recognize the guru wherever he appears. One who possesses knowledge of absolute divine love in purity--he is guru. Otherwise the guru parampara is only a body parampara: a succession of bodies. Then the caste brahmanas, the caste goswamis, will continue with their trade, because body after body, they are getting the mantra. But their mantra is dead. We are after a living mantra, and wherever we can trace the living tendency for a higher type of devotional service, we shall find that there is our guru. One who has that sort of vision awakened will be able to recognize the guru wherever he may appear.

Initiation into the mantra means to impart real knowledge and devotional sentiment from one to another. And that must be genuine. Nothing can be known about a homeopathic globule by an outer physical inspection, but the potency is within. So also within the mantra the important thing is the type of thought or sentiment which is imparted through that sound. The impersonalists have got the same mantra, and are also chanting, the holv name of Krsna, but that sort of name will vanish in the brahmajyoti. They won't be able to cross the Viraja, the river between the material and spiritual world. When the mayavadi chants the name of Krsna, Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that his chanting of the name of Krsna is just like thunder to the holy body of Krsna. It does not produce any soothing effect.

The Gaudiya Math deals with reality, not with the frame. We are trying to understand what is what in the spiritual thought-world. We are not enchanted or captured by the mere form. We are interested in the step by step development in spiritual thought. In his Upadesamrta (10), Srila Rupa Goswami has said, karmibhyah parito hareh priyataya vyaktim yayur jnaninas, tebhyo jnanavimukta bhakti-paramah premaika nisthas tatah. "Out of many materialists one may be a philosopher. Out of many philosophers, one may become liberated and take to devotional service. Out of many devotees, one may attain pure love of Krsna. He is the best of all." We are interested in understanding this gradation: what is the Viraja river, what is the spiritual sky, the planet of Lord Siva, the Vaikuntha world of Visnu, Lord Rama's Ayodhya, and then Krsna in Dwaraka, Mathura, and Vrndavana? We want to know the realistic view of the whole gradation of devotional thought. Krsna shows this gradation in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.14.15) where he says:

na tatha me priyatama

atma-yonir na sankarah

na ca sankarsano na srir

naivatma ca yatha bhavan

"Neither Brahma, nor Siva, nor Sankarsana of Vaikuntha, nor the goddess of fortune Laksmidevi, nor even my own self is as dear to me as you. You are my favorite, Uddhava."

We have to follow the spirit; otherwise after Jahnava devi, the wife of Lord Nityananda, up to Vipina Goswami, from whom Bhaktivinoda Thakura took initiation, there are so many unknown lady gurus. Through them, the mantra came to Vipina Goswami, and from him Bhaktivinoda Thakura received the mantra. We accept Bhaktivinoda Thakura, but should we count all those ladies in our disciplic succession? What was their realization?

Slaves of the Truth

We are slaves of the truth. We are beggars for the pure current of truth that is constantly flowing: the fresh current. We are not charmed by any formality. I will bow down my head wherever I find the river of nectar coming down to me. When one is conscious that the Absolute Truth is descending to him from the highest domain, he will think, "I must surrender myself here."

Mahaprabhu says to Ramananda Raya, kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya, yei krsna-tattva vetta sei guru haya. "Wherever the truth appears, wherever the nectar of divine ecstasy descends, I shall offer myself as a slave. That is my direct concern." Whatever form it takes doesn't matter much; the form has some value, but if there is any conflict, the inner spirit of a thing should be given immense value over its external cover. Otherwise, if the spirit has gone away, and the bodily connection gets the upper hand, our so-called spiritual life becomes sahajiya, a cheap imitation.

When we are conscious of the real substance of Krsna consciousness, the real wealth we are receiving from our spiritual master, then our spiritual life cannot be sahajiyaism, imitationism. We must be aware enough to detect our guru's advice when we find it in another. One who is awake will see, "Here is my guru's advice, I find it here in this man. Somehow or other, it has come here. How, I do not know, but I see my guru's characteristics, his dealings, and behavior in this person." When we are able to recognize a thing for its intrinsic value, then, wherever we find it, we cannot neglect it.

There is an example of this in an instance regarding Aurobindo Ghosh, of Pondicherry. He was the first leader of the Anarchist Party and practically the founder of the revolutionary movement in Bengal. In 1928, a case against him was proceeding in Calcutta High Court. A famous attorney, Mr. Norton, was in charge of the prosecution. Aurobindo had absconded, and when the case was going on, he was not to be found anywhere. Norton was concerned. How to find him? Aurobindo's English was very good English. He had been educated in England from childhood, and could speak English even better than many Englishmen. Norton began to search through different papers and magazines for Aurobindo's writing. Finally, he found Aurobindo's style of writing in the Amrita Bazaar Patrika, a Bengali newspaper. "Here is Mr. Ghosh!" he said. The editor of the Amrita Bazaar Patrika was summoned to court to find out whether Aurobindo Ghosh had written the article. Norton examined him:

"This is your paper. You must know who has written this article. You are the editor."

"Yes, I know."

"Do you know this man, Aurobindo Ghosh?"

"Yes, I know him. I consider him to be one of the greatest men in the world."

"As the editor of this newspaper do you know who wrote this article?"

"Yes, I know."

"Has Mr. Ghosh written this article?I won't say."

Norton asked him, "Do you know what is the punishment?"

"Yes. Six months imprisonment.You are ready for that?"

"Yes, I am ready for that." Holding up the newspaper article, Norton said, "Here is Mr. Ghosh! I rest my case."

He saw Aurobindo in his writing, and in a similar way we must see, "Here is my gurudeva !" Our spiritual master would also sometimes say of one of his disciples who had departed, "Bhaktivinoda Thakura came to me, but l could not recognize him." Those whose divine vision is awakened are always seeing signs of divinity everywhere .

One Krsna in Many Gurus

We must have the vision to recognize the presence of our guru's temperament. Mahaprabhu says madhavendra purira sambandha dhara jani. When Mahaprabhu met the Sanodiya brahmana, upon seeing his movements, he at once detected that this brahmana must have some connection with Madhavendra Puri. He said, "Without his connection, I could never find such symptoms of transcendental ecstasy. It must come from Madhavendra Puri." So, we must know Krsna consciousness in truth. It is said acaryam mam vijaniyan, the spiritual master is not to be differentiated. One thing is coming down from the Supreme Lord, so the oneness of continuity is not to be ignored. Guru can be here; guru can be in another bodv also. The same teacher may come in a different body to inspire us; he may come to give us new hope and higher education. The substance should always be given a higher value than the form.

First understand the degree of purity in Krsna consciousness. The followers of form are only imitationists; they want only to exploit Mahaprabhu and not to serve him. They are our worst enemies. They are traitors; they have taken the garb of Mahaprabhu's sampradaya, and they are saying something bogus. This is cheap marketing; they are extensively selling adulterated things very cheaply. They have no inner necessity to attain the purest thing (pujala ragapatha gaurava-bhange ). Although he was such an exalted Vaisnava, our guru maharaja never presented himself as a great devotee. He always used to say, ''I am a servant of the servant of the Vaisnavas. That was his claim. And he would say, "The higher devotees are my guru, they are so exalted." First come and practice all these things, and then you can hope to reach the goal. It is not so easy, or so cheap.Out of many liberated persons, a pure devotee of Lord Krsna is extremely rare." (koti-mukta-madhye 'durlabha' eka krsna-bhakta ).

Krsna consciousness is an internal thing, and those who cannot see the internal truth will make much of the external cover. We do not support that. Rather we are interested in the real spirit. All the opposing elements who are interested in externals cannot touch us. Dogs may bark, but the barking of a dog has no importance. Because they make so much of the outer thing, they have no real purification of the heart to accept the pure thing, to discriminate what is purity, or what is love of Godhead, prema, after which even Brahma and Mahadeva aspire. '

Srila bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja

entire book in pdf is found here:

http://www.guardian-of-devotion.de/books/books.htm

October 16, 2004

Back to the point I was trying to make. Srila Rupa Goswami does not only teach about manjari bhava. A real Rupanuga, follows in the footsteps of Sri Rupa in that he teaches the way Sri Rupa teaches, imitation of Sri Rupa's rasa, does not a Rupanuga make

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

Rupanuga and Raganuga

October 12, 1996

[The following is a "vintage class" given by Srila Maharaja. This class was given in order to establish the position and glory of of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja. It has never been published before.]

There is a difference between rupanuga [*Endnote 1] and raganuga [*Endnote 2]. Those who are in this world and serve Sri Sri Radha-Krsna on the path of raga (loving attachment), following in the footsteps of the ragatmika-bhaktas who are described by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu and Sri Ujjvala-nilamani, all are raganuga.

This applies to those devotees who have some greed for vraja-bhakti and are actually following the process to attain it. Still, it may be that they are not rupanuga, but raganuga. Sri Jayadeva Gosvami was not rupanuga, but raganuga. Sri Bilvamangala Thakura was truly raganuga, but not rupanuga. Sri Svarupa Damodara and Sri Raya Ramananda were not rupanuga, although they were in the intimate association of Srila Rupa Gosvami. They are Lalita devi and Visakha devi themselves, so they are in a different category of eternal associates of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. They are not rupanuga.

Those who follow Srila Rupa Gosvami’s Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu and are under the guidance of Krsna’s cowherd friends (sakhas), like Subala, Sridama and all others, and who want to serve Lord Krsna like the sakhas – will not be called rupanuga. They will be called raganuga.

Lalita and Visakha and Yasoda-maiya are neither raganuga nor rupanuga. They are not “anuga”, followers. Those who are siddha, perfect, liberated associates, and are serving Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana are called ragatmika [*Endnote 3]. Those who want to serve Lord Krsna like them are called sadhakas (practitioners). Thus following raga-marga (the path of raga) they are raganuga. If one follows this path, inwardly mediating, “How can I serve Lord Krsna like Mother Yasoda or Nanda Baba?” he will be called raganuga, not rupanuga. Srila Rupa Gosvami has explained the glory of all these relationships in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. Still, they will not be called rupanuga.

Those who are truly raganuga and follow the manner and mood in which Sri Rupa Manjari serves Radha and Krsna – those who, in their constitutional form, are in the same mood as Sri Rupa Manjari, and who are in the same mood and perform the same devotional activities as Srila Rupa Gosvami at the time of practice – only they are called rupanuga.

Rupanuga is the following of the way in which Sri Rupa Manjari serves both Radha and Krsna – being more inclined towards Srimati Radhika – happy in the happiness of Srimati Radhika and suffering like Her when She suffers. A person who follows in such a way can be called rupanuga.

Parama-pujyapada Srila Svami Maharaja has come especially to give this – rupanuga-bhakti. He did not come only to give raganuga-bhakti, nor did he come only to give vaidhi-bhakti. He could not give this to his general disciples at that time, however, because most of them were not in the stage to understand. Even now I am endeavoring with great labor to make you understand, but still only a few are trying to understand. About 25 years ago, when Srila Svami Maharaja went to America to preach, how could he openly preach this topic? There was practically no one qualified to understand – and thus he was mostly engaged in cutting jungles.

The entire disciplic-succession of our Gaudiya mission is rupanuga. The sampradaya of Srila Nimbarkacarya is raganuga, but of Dvaraka – of Satyabhama and Rukmini. His followers are not like Srila Rupa Gosvami. Only the acaryas coming in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are rupanuga.

Srila Svami Maharaja came to give what is already in each soul.

krti-sadhya bhavet sadhya-

bhava sa sadhanabhidha

nitya-siddhasya bhavasya

prakatyam hrdi sadhyata

[“When transcendental devotional service, by which love for Krsna is attained, is executed by the senses, it is called sadhana-bhakti, or the regulative discharge of devotional service. Such devotion eternally exists within the heart of every living entity. The awakening of this eternal devotion is the potentiality of devotional service in practice.”]

The soul is perfect in itself. The soul’s relation with Krsna, its name, qualities and all specialities, are already present within. This perfection is not brought from outside. Unfortunately maya covers it, but Sri Guru removes that maya and then everything manifests automatically.

This pure prema will not come by any efforts or any sadhana. What is there will come out; no new thing will come. No type of association can change what is already in the soul.

What is in your soul will manifest by sravana (hearing), kirtana (chanting) and smarana (remembering). Whatever rasa is in the soul will manifest. If it is dasya-rasa, then dasya-rasa will manifest. It is a fact that if someone is in madhurya-rasa, he will have only a little taste for dasya or sakhya-rasa. This will automatically come – it will come when our anarthas will disappear.

It is sometimes misunderstood that Srila Svami Maharaja was only in sakhya-rasa, and that he cannot give madhurya-rasa. This is not a fact. He came only for spreading the same mission to the world that was brought by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

He has not come only to give vaidhi-bhakti.* [see Endnote 4] We will have to perform vaidhi-bhakti, of course, and by this, bhakti will manage everything. Bhakti is not only a quality – she is not nirvisesa, impersonal. She is a person. Krsna is controlled by prema-bhakti. Krsna, and Srimati Radhika, and all Their associates, are controlled by bhakti. Bhakti can make Radha dance, Krsna dance, the gopis dance, and bhakti herself dance. She makes all dance.

* Endnotes:

On Rupanuga:

1. It is not that Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada has discovered something new, and that we are "Prabhupadanugas". It is not that Rupa Gosvami’s followers are Rupanuga Vaisnavas and Srila Prabhupada’s followers are Prabhupadanuga. All our acaryas have told us to follow the Rupanuga Vaisnavas – but who are Rupanuga?

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu first of all inspired all spiritual truths in Srila Rupa Gosvami's heart, as well as all knowledge of the Vedas, Upanisads and all other scriptures. Then, by the Lord´s mercy, Srila Rupa Gosvami knew His heart:

sri-caitanya-mano-'bhistam

sthapitam yena bhu-tale

svayam rupah kada mahyam

dadati sva-padantikam

[“When will Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?"]

By the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami manifested, or wrote, so many books, such as Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Sri Ujjvala-nilamani and Sri Upadesamrta. He explained everything about Vraja-bhakti in Sri Ujjvala-nilamani and Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. He wrote Sri Ujjvala-nilamani especially to give vraja-prema and vraja-bhakti. He explained in Bhakti-rasamtra-sindhu that bhakti can be experienced by five moods and five kinds of services; santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. Among them, three are prominent – sakya, vatsalya and madhurya. The mood of the Vrajabasis is vraja-bhakti; especially, the mood of the gopis is madhurya-rasa in vraja-bhakti; and especially, the mood of Srimati Radhika is the highest emblem of vraja-bhakti.

Srila Rupa Gosvami explained, "There are two processes of practical devotional service. One is regulative devotional service, and the other is spontaneous devotional service." (Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 22.108)] Those who follow the path of raganuga in any rasa other than manjari-bhava in madhurya-rasa are rupanuga, but not so much – partly, very partly. In fact, it can also be said that they are not rupanuga. (Srila Narayana Maharaja’s lecture of May 18, 2004; Badger, California)]

2. “Consequently we always request members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to publish as many books as possible and distribute them widely throughout the world. By thus following in the footsteps of Srila Rapa Gosvami, one can become a rupanuga devotee.” (Purport Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 19.132)

3. "We Gaudiya Vaisnavas are known as Rupanuga. Rupanuga means the followers of Rupa Gosvami. Why should we become followers of Rupa Gosvami? Because sri-caitanya-mano 'bhistam sthapitam yena bhu-tale. He wanted to establish the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2, Hyderabad, April 13, 1975)

4. “Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami are the most exalted servitors of Srimati Radharani and Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Those who adhere to their service are known as rupanuga devotees.” (Mad.8.246 Purp.)

5. “Unless you become rupanuga, you cannot understand the Gaudiya philosophy.” (Vrnd. Oct. ’72 lecture)

On Raganuga-bhakti:

1. “One has to serve Krsna according to these regulative principles, but if one develops spontaneous love for Krsna as exhibited in the activities of those who live in Vrajabhumi, one attains the platform of raganuga-bhakti. One who has developed this spontaneous love is eligible for elevation to the platform enjoyed by the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi. In Vrajabhumi, there are no regulative principles set forth for Krsna's service. Rather, everything is carried out in spontaneous, natural love for Krsna." (Sri Caitanya-cartiamrta, Madya 8.221 purport)

2. "Devotional service in spontaneous love is vividly expressed and manifested by the inhabitants of Vrndavana. Devotional service that accords with their devotional service is called raganuga-bhakti, or devotional service following in the wake of spontaneous loving service." (Sri Caitanya-cartamrta, Madhya 22.154)]

On Ragatmika

1. "The original inhabitants of Vrndavana are attached to Krsna spontaneously in devotional service. Nothing can compare to such spontaneous devotional service, which is called ragatmika-bhakti. When a devotee follows in the footsteps of the devotees of Vrndavana, his devotional service is called raganuga-bhakti." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 22.149)

2. "When one becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his natural inclination to love is fully absorbed in thoughts of the Lord. That is called transcendental attachment, and devotional service according to that attachment is called ragatmika, or spontaneous devotional service.” (Madhya 22.149)

"Those who have not attained the platform of spontaneous attachment in devotional service render devotional service under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master according to the regulative principles mentioned in the revealed scriptures. According to the revealed scriptures, this kind of devotional service is called vaidhi bhakti.” (Mad. 22.109)

Editorial advisors: Sripad Madhava Maharaja and Sripad Brajanatha dasa

Transcriber and typist: Vasanti dasi

Editor: Syamarani dasi

vijay · October 16, 2004

Doubt 3: Both ¼r¦la Prabhup§da’s general instruction

to associate with Vai¢£avas and his specific warning to

avoid certain Vai¢£avas outside ISKCON can be fulfilled

without cutting off ISKCON from the rest of the Vai¢£ava

world. How? By associating only with those Vai¢£avas outside

ISKCON who perfectly represent Prabhup§da.

10 Prabhup§da said, “Just like XX… They are envious. What I have

done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru

Mah§r§ja.” (Conversation, Bombay, January 8, 1977)

11 For example, for the M§y§pura planetarium, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da directed

devotees to gather information about the structure of the universe;

and to prepare for his departure, he sought guidance about the

process of performing his sam§dhi ceremony.

12 ¼r¦la Prabhup§da cites the process of “how to catch the big fish without

themselves [sic] getting wet.” (Letter, Bombay, December 25,

1972) This seemed to be the logic of getting help: without being influenced

by, or excessively obliged to, those helping.

49 Doubts and Answers

Answer: This argument would seem a logical consequence

of my answers to Doubts 1 and 2; indeed, ¼r¦la

Prabhup§da did entertain this idea in the early days of the

Society.13 But, I humbly submit, not later.14

Furthermore, upon his departure, Prabhup§da did not

say, “Unfortunately there are many Vai¢£avas envious of

me. Avoid them. But find those who are non-envious, those

who share my missionary mood, those who have read my

books, those who agree with our teachings, and those who

have no agenda independent of serving ISKCON — these

you may accept as ªik¢§-guru.”

And had he said it, what would be the process to find,

outside ISKCON, Vai¢£avas who are Prabhup§da’s representatives?

Vai¢£avas outside may claim to know Prabhup§da, but

the history in dealing with them, their followers, or both, is

testimony to the contrary. How will ISKCON’s members

know a particular Vai¢£ava without cultivating a relationship

with him, and how, having cultivated the relationship,

will they avoid compromise?

And, to ¼r¦la Prabhup§da, experience showed that the

more his disciples involved themselves with other

Vai¢£avas, the more his position was slighted, his disciples

confused, and his ISKCON’s preaching jeopardised. That

scenario has not changed to this day. The same phenom-

13 ¼r¦la Prabhup§da repeatedly invited other Vai¢£avas to join ISKCON

or work co-operatively with him. For instance, “With this aim in view I

tried my… to join together. … first K, then B, and then T, but I have

failed to get any cooperation.” (Letter, New York, May 16, 1966)

14 In time Prabhup§da became indifferent to working co-operatively:

“So far as cooperating with my Godbrothers is concerned, that is not

very urgent business. So far until now my Godbrothers have regularly

not cooperated with me and by the grace of my Spiritual Master, things

are still going ahead. So cooperation or non-cooperation …” (Letter,

Gorakhpur, February 23, 1971)

50 ¼ik¢§ outside ISKCON?

15 Prabhup§da writes, “He holds a grudge against my Guru Maharaja

and even if it is transcendental it will gradually appear mundane in our

eyes.” (Letter, Los Angeles, December 25, 1973)

16 “We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is

my instruction to you all.” (Letter, Tirupati, April 28, 1974)

17 Prabhup§da writes, “… one should respect one’s spiritual master’s

Godbrothers as one respects one’s spiritual master.” (Cc. Ýdi 5.147,

purport)

enon repeats itself, putting into doubt a chance that any

outside Vai¢£ava may be found to benefit ISKCON as

ªik¢§-guru.

Though I have disparaged the likelihood of finding a

suitable ªik¢§-guru outside ISKCON, I do not condemn

any great soul engaged in Krsna’s service. Indeed, my understanding

is that certain differences between

Prabhup§da and other Vai¢£avas may be of a transcendental

nature.15 In any case, though, the fact remains that,

in the past 35 years, neither ¼r¦la Prabhup§da nor his followers

have managed to successfully bridge these differences.

The quest for suitable ªik¢§-gurus outside the Society

has thus far created enough damage to ISKCON and inter-

Vai¢£ava relationships to warrant the self-evident solution

of simply following Prabhup§da’s order.16 This will avoid

offences to ¼r¦la Prabhup§da as well as offences to other

Vai¢£avas.

Doubt 4: ¼§stra says that the Godbrothers of the guru

should be respected as much as the guru.17 Is this not evidence

that, as in the past, members of ISKCON took instructions

from ¼r¦la Prabhup§da, they should now take instructions

from his Godbrothers (or other senior

Vai¢£avas)?

Answer: No. The equal respect offered to the guru’s

Godbrothers must be reconciled with respect for the guru’s

order — in this case, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da’s: “Do not mix with

51 Doubts and Answers

18 Prabhup§da said, “You cannot criticize superiors …” (Bh§g. Lecture,

V¥nd§vana, November 8, 1976)

19 ¼r¦la Prabhup§da said, “‘My spiritual master was no ordinary spiritual

master.’ Then he paused for some time, and wiping the tears from his

cheeks, he said in an even more choked voice, ‘He saved me.’” (¼r¦la

Prabhup§da-l¦l§m¥ta 26)

20 K¥¢£a-bhajan§m¥ta 50.

21 See K¥¢£a-bhajan§m¥ta 54.

them.” Therefore, to the Godbrothers of ¼r¦la Prabhup§da,

his followers should offer the respect due senior Vai¢£avas

and should not speak of them disparagingly.18 But

Prabhup§d§nugas should also not hear from such seniors.

Respect for the guru’s Godbrother cannot mean disrespect

for the guru’s order.

A guru’s Godbrother is not seen in every way as one’s

own guru.19 There is difference as well as oneness. Equal

respect does not mean equal importance in the disciple’s

life. ¼§stra states, “… in all circumstances all Vai¢£avas

are offered respect like one offers respect to one’s spiritual

master. However, with body, mind, and words one serves

one’s own spiritual master.”20

One may even offer twice the respect to the guru of

one’s guru, but still one depends upon the mercy of one’s

own guru for progress in spiritual life.21

Thus, while offering due respect to ¼r¦la Prabhup§da’s

Godbrothers and other senior Vai¢£avas, one will not hear

from them.

Doubt 5: ¼r¦la Prabhup§da attempted to recruit other

senior Vai¢£avas to work in or with ISKCON. How, then,

could they not be qualified as ªik¢§-gurus?

Answer: The question itself contains the answer.

How? Because in actuality no such Vai¢£ava came to

Prabhup§da’s side. Therefore, none could qualify as ªik¢§-

guru.

52 ¼ik¢§ outside ISKCON?

22 In response to a letter, Prabhup§da writes, “… you write to say, ‘It is

clear to me that you are great powerful acarya in the Vai¢£ava world at

present.’ Sometimes S also says like that. So, actually if you are feeling

like that let us work conjointly.” (Letter, V¥nd§vana, November 9,

1976)

23 In a conversation with ¼r¦la Prabhup§da, a devotee recalls, “I remember

a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them,

‘Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the

world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one.’”

(Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977)

24 As late as 1976, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da wrote, “So, actually if you are feel-

Had any senior Vai¢£avas accepted Prabhup§da’s invitation

to work in ISKCON, they would have had to accept

him as founder-§c§rya22 and represent him. That would

have made them regular members, fully qualified to give

ªik¢§.

On the other hand, were such Vai¢£avas not to join

ISKCON, yet work with it, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da envisaged

that they would have authority only in proportion to their

preaching.23 That would have given Prabhup§da’s disciples

considerably more authority than those instructing them

on Prabhup§da’s behalf —hardly a relationship one might

expect between ªik¢§-gurus and their disciples.

But this doubt is theoretical, for the reality is that, despite

¼r¦la Prabhup§da’s many kind overtures,24 not one

senior Vai¢£ava took up his offer to work in or with

ISKCON.

Doubt 6: In his last days, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da apologised

to other Vai¢£avas for having offended them in the course

of his preaching. He declared the war with his Godbrothers

over. These statements lead one to believe that

Prabhup§da had finally ended ISKCON’s isolationist

policy and anticipated his disciples’ harmonious interaction

with senior Vai¢£avas outside ISKCON.

53 Doubts and Answers

ing like that let us work conjointly.” (Letter, V¥nd§vana, November 9,

1976)

25 Prabhup§da said, “My life is coming to an end. It is my desire that

you all forgive me for my mistakes. … when you are preaching at times

there are some disputes, some misunderstandings. Maybe I also committed

some offences like that. Please ask them to forgive me.” (¼r¦la

Prabhup§da-l¦l§m¥ta, 54)

26 One such Vai¢£ava told Prabhup§da at his bedside, “Mah§r§ja, you

didn’t commit any offence.” (¼r¦la Prabhup§da-l¦l§m¥ta, 54)

27 For Prabhup§da says, “You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot

criticize wrongly.” (Conversation, V¥nd§vana, March 16, 1974)

Answer: Who could really believe that ¼r¦la Prabhup

§da actually committed offences? Even some of those to

whom he apologised25 rejected the idea.26 Prabhup§da’s

apologies, rather, symptomised the humble spirit of a true

Vai¢£ava, doing what all devotees do before leaving this

world; his apologies did not contradict his earlier statements.

27

The doubt at hand cites a statement — “The war is

over” — interpreting it to mean that ¼r¦la Prabhup§da

wanted his disciples to take ªik¢§ from other Vai¢£avas.

However, there are no instructions to support this argument.

“The war is over,” rather, was a ceasefire on the verbal

exchange between Prabhup§da and his Godbrothers.

That is my understanding. That war was over.

An informal comment is a far cry from a direct instruction,

such as: “I have said many things about Vai¢£avas

outside ISKCON, often exaggerating for the sake of focusing

you on my instructions. Now that I am leaving, you will

need others to guide you. Forget the past. Forget what I

said. The war is over. You may take ªik¢§ from others.”

And, had ¼r¦la Prabhup§da given the comprehensive

instruction above — a directive to contradict years of

training —he would not have left it to the memory of a few

devotees. That was not the way Prabhup§da did things.

54 ¼ik¢§ outside ISKCON?

28 Prabhup§da considered the history of the Gau¨¦ya Ma±ha sufficiently

important to record it in Caitanya-carit§m¥ta. (See Cc. Ýdi 12.8)

29 In letters, lectures, conversations, especially on important things,

Prabhup§da repeated himself, e.g., “I repeat my symptoms so that you

can take necessary care.” (Letter, New York, June 1, 1967)

30 When Prabhup§da wanted pras§dam available to all guests visiting

temples, he wrote a letter to all temple presidents. See letter, Calcutta,

January 18, 1977.

31 When, in the summer of 1977, Prabhup§da wanted direction whether

to stay or leave (die) he instructed the senior devotees and GBC men

to discuss. (¼r¦la Prabhup§da-l¦l§m¥ta, 54)

32 The Sanskrit is vai¢£ava vidveª¦ cet parity§jya eva. “guror api

aviliptasye” ti smara£§t, tasya-vai¢£ava-bh§va-r§hityena avai¢£avatay§

How did Prabhup§da communicate on issues of paramount

importance? He would

(1) write instructions in his books;28

(2) repeat himself many times;29

(3) write a general letter to the Society;30

(4) call a meeting of the GBC, sanny§s¦s, and

senior devotees.31

This was ¼r¦la Prabhup§da! He was not someone to

leave major issues hanging for lack of information or communication.

Had he intended members of ISKCON, after

his departure, to take ªik¢§ from Vai¢£avas outside the

movement, he would have made it abundantly clear. There

would now be no argument.

vijay · October 16, 2004

Sorry i will post some clear question and answers latter cant get the text out of my pdf

Doubt 1: Like all ª§stra, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da’s books recommend

association with devotees, especially advanced

devotees.1 Why then should we restrict devotees from taking

ªik¢§ outside ISKCON?

Answer: It is a fact: the primary element of spiritual

life is s§dhu-sa¯ga,2 without which the members of

ISKCON will perish.3

But the issue is not whether to associate with s§dhus;

rather, with which s§dhus to associate.

As ¼r¦la Prabhup§da taught us to associate with

Vai¢£avas (some of whom he specified), he also taught us

not to associate with certain Vai¢£avas.4 On s§dhu-sa¯ga,

then, Prabhup§da gave instructions both general and specific.

Therefore, a disciple should not select which instructions

to follow and which not to follow.5 His duty is to

meticulously reconcile all the instructions of ¼r¦la Prabhup

§da, knowing them as his life and soul.

Thus, the resolution to the two instructions — seek advanced

association, but not outside ISKCON — is to seek

1 “If one desires his real welfare, he must associate with devotees and

saintly persons and in this way rectify the material condition of his

life.” (Bh§g. 10.4.44, purport)

2 See Cc. Madhya 22.128.

3 In a conversation, Prabhup§da says, “Then chanting Hare K¥¢£a

mantra. Very simple method — but one cannot practice these things

without association of devotees. Nobody can do it outside.” (Conversation,

Melbourne, April 23, 1976)

4 Letter, Los Angeles, January 31, 1969.

5 Such selectivity leads to endless argumentation; for other, contradictory

information is the basis of other eclectics’ equally relevant stand.

Therefore conclusive judgement can be based only upon a process that

resolves all information in a comprehensive way.

47 Doubts and Answers

advanced association within ISKCON.6 Of course, this

obliges ISKCON’s leaders to provide a quality of association

which meets the needs of sincere devotees. (For those

who doubt such leaders exist in ISKCON, see the answer to

Doubt 9.)

Doubt 2: But, even while present, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da instructed

devotees to seek instruction outside ISKCON.7

Answer: There are two kinds of circumstance in which

Prabhup§da directed his followers to go outside for instruction:

(1) in the earliest days in India, when devotees had

no facilities of their own;

(2) when he or they required specific information

that would benefit the Society.

Earlier I presented the first kind of circumstance,8 in

which ¼r¦la Prabhup§da directed to a senior Vai¢£ava a few

devotees alone in India, one in especially bad association.

The ªik¢§ they received, however, by Prabhup§da’s own admission,

proved counterproductive for the entire Society.9

6 ¼r¦la Prabhup§da writes, “Without the association of devotees, one

cannot advance in K¥¢£a consciousness. Therefore, we have established

the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Factually, whoever

lives in this society automatically develops K¥¢£a consciousness.”

(Bh§g. 4.12.37, purport)

7 See Conversation, V¥nd§vana, October 8, 1977, in which Prabhup§da

instructs devotees to get guidance on performing his sam§dhi ceremony.

8 See Part One, After Prabhup§da‘s Disappearance, section 2: Complications

with ªik¢§ taken from outside ISKCON.

9 Prabhup§da writes, “Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it

is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how

it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form.”

(Letter, Calcutta, September 2, 1970) “… and on this point they

wanted to poison the whole Society —that is now clear.” (Letter, Calcutta,

September 25, 1970)

48 ¼ik¢§ outside ISKCON?

In Prabhup§da’s estimation, even the Vai¢£avas he recommended

were envious of his success and systematically

schemed against him.10 Therefore, Prabhup§da gave his

general directive, “do not mix with them,” and never

changed that instruction to the last —and so it remains as

a standing order.

In the second kind of circumstance, ¼r¦la Prabhup§da

sent disciples as messengers to acquire, on his behalf only,

information or guidance on a certain subject.11 But accepting

limited guidance for a purpose authorised by ¼r¦la

Prabhup§da is much different from accepting long-term,

regular ªik¢§, a result of which would surely be personal

commitment to a guru who does not have full allegiance to

Prabhup§da.

Examples of Prabhup§da’s consent to outside instruction

were restricted and specific.12 Such limited endorsement

can hardly be compared to an unrestricted license to

accept ªik¢§-gurus outside ISKCON.