The War in Iraq

[AncientMariner]

Doesn't it say somewhere in Vedas that a plunderer of wealth, or someone who steals another man's wife should be immediately killed? The whole of Bhagavad Gita shows that killing is not always irreligous. Yeah you have to try to keep the killing to a minimum but you have yet to convince me that America is intentionally targeting the innocent in anyway unless you somehow consider Saddam and his cohorts as innocent? I still remain convinced the world is better place without Saddam and when and if these fascists keep popping up take em out one by one. Like theist says we are supposed to be soft as a rose and as mighty as a lightning bolt or something like that. I haven't seen any evidence that singing Kum ba yah to these Islamo fascists is going to pacify them. How many European conferences and UN meetings does it take to come to the conclusion good arguments have failed only to find out that half the homo Europeans and UN are in bed with Saddam?

 

I know that America has its share of its own hypocrisy and plenty of rascals in religion and government but I still aint subscribing to this hate America rhetoric from the left. If America is so horrible and evil why does everyone want to come here? I suppose its possible this war is a karmic reaction to America's cow killing but the Kali-yuga is extremely messy and you can only do the best you can under some very difficult circumstances. If I could convince everyone to give up cow killing I would but its not possible.

[gHari]

I think maybe many people are afraid to find out that the terrorists' rhetoric about America constantly screwing them around for years on years is the real reason for the terrorism - "Get the hell out of Islam, Yankee dog, once and for all or we'll suicide bomb you into oblivion".

 

Of course, it's not the people on the street in everytown USA who can't keep their greedy little paws and noses out of everyone else's pie - it's you know who who can't stop playing control-freak. I hate them all. I'll be just as happy when they're all back in the animal kingdom.

 

[Kulapavana]

US invaded Iraq to prevent WMD's from getting into wrong hands? LOL! The only thing they wanted to keep from getting into wrong hands was the OIL. read this article:

 

 

 

VIENNA (Reuters) - The mysterious removal of Iraq's mothballed nuclear facilities continued long after the U.S.-led invasion and was carried out by people with access to heavy machinery and demolition equipment, diplomats said on Thursday.

 

The United Nations nuclear watchdog told the Security Council this week that equipment and materials that could be used to make atomic weapons had been vanishing from Iraq without either Baghdad or Washington noticing.

 

"This process carried on at least through 2003 ... and probably into 2004, at least in early 2004," said a Western diplomat close to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which monitored Iraq's nuclear sites before last year's war.

 

That contrasted with statements by Western and Iraqi officials, who have played down the disappearance of the equipment. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said on Tuesday he believed most of the removals took place in the chaos shortly after the March 2003 invasion.

 

The United States and Britain said they invaded to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction. Both countries now admit toppled ruler Saddam Hussein had no such weapons.

 

Several diplomats close to the IAEA said the disappearance of the nuclear items was not the result of haphazard looting.

 

They said the removal of the dual-use equipment -- which before the war was tagged and closely monitored by the IAEA to ensure it was not being used in a weapons programme -- was planned and executed by people who knew what they were doing.

 

"We're talking about dozens of sites being dismantled," a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. "Large numbers of buildings taken down, warehouses were emptied and removed. This would require heavy machinery, demolition equipment. This is not something that you'd do overnight." ...

 

[Guest guest]

Hate america rhetoric is never my trip. It is a patriot who dissents when the constitution is trashed the was neocon christian facsists do it.

 

In fact, every time I read that america is a christian country, I accept that the person who said such a thing is unconstitutional.

 

And, those who want to come to america have one thing on their minds, greater facility to enjoy their senses.

 

FREEDOM. Now there is a crock if I ever heard it. Only the deep indigenous societies left in the deepest amazon or other inaccessible areas obscurred by clouds have freedom.

 

The freedom espoused by the fascist is a freedom for a select few at the expense of all the others.

 

Fact is, america is equally enslaved, just a subtler form of slavery. USSR had gulags, a gross spectacle of slavery. But we have slavery to social security and pensions that never come after working for 50 years with minimal wages, with no time off from our labors in comparison with the rest of the advanced civilizations, etc.

 

Americans are free to die from carcinogens and diseases given to them by their government.

 

My genetration was free to enter the slaughterhouse of southeast asia based on a lie of an attack that did not happen. (The USS turner Joy was thousands of miles away from the gulf of tonkin). My sons generation is free to get beheaded or exploded (what the hells the difference, dead is dead) in the middle east wasteland based on a lie that Iraq had something to do with commercial jets exploding into buildings (when in fact, the FAA has all the tools it needs to blow up those jets a long time prior to impact with WTC, but if 911 did not go down, Iraq doesnt fly either, nor does destruction of US constitution).

 

There is no just side in kali yuga wars. All arre fought by DEMONS, like aswattama, who have no ability to protect the innocent during warfare. So there is no justification for either side of any kali yuga war, per Srila Prabhupada.

 

And, your vote for bush is a vote for wholeslaughter of cows, Srila Prabhupadas #1 political issue. go figure.

 

mad mahax

[AncientMariner]

Move to the amazon? Would increased cow protection hurt the ketchup business? Go figure. Scotty if you are there, Beam me up.

[AncientMariner]

Nice thought but realistically I think it is safer to say "They did it all for the nookie." You know, the virgins they get in heaven.

[Guest guest]

I vote for kerry for whom he may have in important posts. I vote for a different SECDEF, VP, NSA. I vote for a new AG who still thinks the US Constitution is applicable to the brave new world.

 

Kerry is okay, but I liked Kicinich, sharpton and dean much better. I like harry Brown, the old prez candidate for the libertarians. I liked Jimmy Carter, I liked Eugene McCarthy.

 

Bush is repulsive, like LBJ in many ways. I cant see why republicans even give him the time of day, as horrible as he is at conserving the economy. A republican sponsored graham rudman bill demanding a balanced budget for the US was co-authored by John Kerry, so actually, kerry is more republican than bush. Clinton was much more like goldwater and nelson rockefeller than the present fanatic anti-constitutionalists who are trying to make this a christian country.

 

Its hard to vote for someone who sucks up to the abortionists, but better than a crusader whose grasp on military science is non-existant because he was drunk and coke-whorin.

 

mad mahak

[AncientMariner]

I heard Dick Morris say tonight that Bill Clinton had 4 chances to get Bin Laden back in the late 1990's but he was too worried about what the soccer moms would think about him. Preemptive paralysis? Go figure.

[theist]

Last year I heard the man who was the go-between for Clinton and the government of Sudan talking about how the Sudanese offered Clinton Bin-Laden, who was living in the Sudan at the time, but Clinton turned them down.

 

People still fawn over that creep. Clinton cultists. I shouldn't be surprised since they do the same for Michael Jackson.

[Guest guest]

because al qaida was holed up in the caves of afghan, tora bora. Did Bush send the mountaineers in? No. Did he bomb torabora into oblivion? No. He instead expended all of the US military energy into going after a great enemy of bin ladin, saddam hussein.

 

Clinton cultists? Thats a new one, who are they, all the young girls that liked his saxophone charisma? I personally think the only clinton cultists are those who always chant his name, folks like ingraham, hannaty, limbaugh, et all. As in, "bush screwed up. Bush lied, but clinton had joint self manipulation sex in the oval office.

 

Why is every answer about Bushes criminhal malfeasance have the word "Clinton" in it. Clinton cultists, I dont doubt it, but their in your back yard, to the dems, hes an ex-president, not an excuse for utter incompetence.

 

and yeah, bin laden slipped away from him, but he wasnt gornered like a dead rat like bush had him.

[stonehearted]

Was that you I heard at a meeting with Tripurari Maharaja on the East Coast? (Sorry, folks--we have no PM capacity here.)

[Guest guest]

Clinton was hogtied by the impeachment. He could not act because he was already being accused of using Bin Laden to distract attention from the impropriety question.

 

Actually, what came out in the 9-11 inquiry was that nearly everything was already known--most of the hijackers were on FBI or CIA lists; some of them were known to be dangerous. The plan to run a plane into the TWC was also on the FBI's radar. Bush, Rice and the rest did not take Bin Laden seriously until 9-11, and then they overreacted with the Patriot Act and all the rest. Why? Because now Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Perlman saw it as an opportunity to put their grand plan into motion.

[AncientMariner]

December 5, 2001 LA Times

 

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize

by Mansoor Ijaz

 

President Clinton and his national security team ignored several opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden and his terrorist associates, including one as late as last year.

I know because I negotiated more than one of the opportunities.

From 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger and Sudan's president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, who wanted terrorism sanctions against Sudan lifted, offered the arrest and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt's Islamic Jihad, Iran's Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas.

Among those in the networks were the two hijackers who piloted commercial airliners into the World Trade Center.

The silence of the Clinton administration in responding to these offers was deafening.

As an American Muslim and a political supporter of Clinton, I feel now, as I argued with Clinton and Berger then that their counter-terrorism policies fueled the rise of Bin Laden from an ordinary man to a Hydra-like monster.

Realizing the growing problem with Bin Laden, Bashir sent key intelligence officials to the U.S. in February 1996.

 

The Sudanese offered to arrest Bin Laden and extradite him to Saudi Arabia or, barring that, to "baby-sit" him--monitoring all his activities and associates.

 

But Saudi officials didn't want their home-grown terrorist back where he might plot to overthrow them.

 

In May 1996, the Sudanese capitulated to U.S. pressure and asked Bin Laden to leave, despite their feeling that he could be monitored better in Sudan than elsewhere.

 

Bin Laden left for Afghanistan, taking with him Ayman Zawahiri, considered by the U.S. to be the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks; Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, who traveled frequently to Germany to obtain electronic equipment for Al Qaeda; Wadih El-Hage, Bin Laden's personal secretary and roving emissary, now serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his role in the 1998 embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya; and Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Saif Adel, also accused of carrying out the embassy attacks.

 

Some of these men are now among the FBI's 22 most-wanted terrorists.

 

The two men who allegedly piloted the planes into the twin towers, Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi, prayed in the same Hamburg mosque as did Salim and Mamoun Darkazanli, a Syrian trader who managed Salim's bank accounts and whose assets are frozen.

 

Important data on each had been compiled by the Sudanese.

 

But U.S. authorities repeatedly turned the data away, first in February 1996; then again that August, when at my suggestion Sudan's religious ideologue, Hassan Turabi, wrote directly to Clinton; then again in April 1997, when I persuaded Bashir to invite the FBI to come to Sudan and view the data, and finally in February 1998, when Sudan's intelligence chief, Gutbi al Mahdi, wrote directly to the FBI.

 

Gutbi had shown me some of Sudan's data during a three-hour meeting in Khartoum in October 1996. When I returned to Washington, I told Berger and his specialist for East Africa, Susan Rice, about the data available. They said they'd get back to me. They never did. Neither did they respond when Bashir made the offer directly. I believe they never had any intention to engage Muslim countries--ally or not. Radical Islam, for the administration, was a convenient national security threat.

 

And that was not the end of it. In July 2000--three months before the deadly attack on the destroyer Cole in Yemen--I brought the White House another plausible offer to deal with Bin Laden, by then known to be involved in the embassy bombings. A senior counter-terrorism official from one of the United States closest Arab allies--an ally whose name I am not free to divulge--approached me with the proposal after telling me he was fed up with the antics and arrogance of U.S. counter-terrorism officials.

 

The offer, which would have brought Bin Laden to the Arab country as the first step of an extradition process that would eventually deliver him to the U.S., required only that Clinton make a state visit there to personally request Bin Laden's extradition. But Senior Clinton officials sabotaged the offer, letting it get caught up in internal politics within the ruling family--Clintonian diplomacy at its best.

 

Clinton's failure to grasp the opportunity to unravel increasingly organized extremists, coupled with Berger's assessments of their potential to directly threaten the U.S. represents one of the most serious foreign policy failures in American history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

I forgot his name. Mansoor Ijaz, a very level headed guy. I got a kick out of that response above. Clinton couldn't get him because he was already too involved with the devil in the blue dress, Monica. Yeah well, I guess one has to prioritize. lol

[Kulapavana]

yes prabhu, it was me you heard there. I enjoyed Maharaja's visit immensly. it was the first time I have seen him in person, altough I have been reading his works for years.

[Kulapavana]

Because US industrial military complex created him, trained him and equipped him, in order to provide them with:

 

MANY, MANY YEARS OF PROFITABLE BUSINESS