Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 "Non-linear even within a given dimension" that means no matter how fast and how long you travel within a given dimension you will NEVER reach the end of it and get out of the universe. thus, all distances given in the Vedas are just a matter of giving us some idea of proportions. there is more to it, but I will leave it at that for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 ***NASA landed on the "reflection" of the Moon plane of existence into our dimension.*** just as ghosts are mere shadows and reflections in our dimension (world) so are the higher worlds. Earth is a part of the gigantic Bhu-mandala, but in our dimension it is merely a planet. The same with Moon. in our dimension it is merely Earth's moon. what is more: our dimension changes with time. the connections (passages) between different dimensions weaken with time, and in this Age they are pretty much all gone. The last "gates" to close were the gates to Naga-loka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 yes, Avinash, it is quite similar. The Moon plane of exitence is huge to it's inhabitants, but what we see here on our plane of existence is only a small, barren ball of rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 There is something that I have been thinking over for long. The more I think over it, the more convinced I become of it. Here is what I have been thinking along. Modern Science says that entire universe (including space and time) was formed due to Big Bang. Now comes the interesting part. If we consider all dimensions, not only the ones that we perceive, then it is possible that the universe existed even before Big Bang. But it existed only in other dimensions. At Big Bang it started entering our dimensions. This means what we call as the creation of universe is really a manifestation in our dimensions. We know that the universe is expanding. Latest results show that it is expanding at an accelerating rate. The expansion can also be explained by the manifestation of the universe in our dimensions. Consider 2D beings. Keep some 3D object outside their world, say a sphere. They do not perceive the object. Now touch their world with the sphere. They will see a dot. Now start pushing the sphere further so that it cuts their world. They will see a circle. With time they will see the circle expanding. Instead of sphere, we can consider an object of some other shape so that the circle that they perceive expands at an accelerating rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I believe that Big Bang happened but I do not believe everything in the universe is due to a single Big Bang. Rather I believe in multitudes of Big Bang. I also believe that one universe can create other universes. What this means is that there can be various Big Bangs inside a universe and these Big Bangs produce other universes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Earth is a part of the gigantic Bhu-mandala, but in our dimension it is merely a planet. Now this is break through for me, could you say some more on this. Please /images/graemlins/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Consider a sphere. Pass a plane through it. The sphere meets the plane in a circle. In other words, the projection of a sphere in 2D is a circle. It is possible that Bhumandala encompasses more dimensions than three. Its projection in our three dimensions is the Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 read about Bhu-mandala in Bhagavatam or better yet in Markandeya Purana. especially in MP the Bhu-mandala is clearly broken down to part accessible in our dimension and other parts. these other parts were formerly accessible to yogis from our dimension, and they were the ones providing descriptions of BM in the Vedas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 actually, it is more like unfolding a surface of a sphere onto a flat surface. when you are just walking on the Earth you CAN describe what you see as if the Earth was flat. it is called: a map /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 If we are talking about planetary system in higher dimensions then I accept my ignorance( Infact very recently in astral I saw a black planetary body revolving around the earth , and my consciousness told me that it is to be avoided , as it has malefic magnetic pull,maybe it was the astral counterpart of the moon we see, I am not sure about that). This could be the planet which scientists say is the Moon. But is actually the Planet called Rahu. I wonder why scientists have not spotted the Moon which is meant to be next to the Sun. I'll have to think about this later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 *sigh* Moon is moon, and you can see it in the sky every night. Rahu is invisible and is usually located in the zone of shadow past the Moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Maybe you can take some time to explain this. As its confucing everybody here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 ***Now comes the interesting part. If we consider all dimensions, not only the ones that we perceive, then it is possible that the universe existed even before Big Bang. But it existed only in other dimensions.*** You mean to say that universe was existing in 5th dimension or higher and then it decided to turn into 4d and lower and BANG, it was created !! Whatever mind can think of, regarding the creation of universe is going to be false, and just another theory. As I said Pankaja I am not sure about what I was looking at. What I meant to say was that perhaps in higher dimensions world is not as it looks in 3rd dimension. regards, mini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 We are all entitled to hold our opinions and views that seem right to us. Atleast your answer is better than I was fearing - " Don't question , just follow ." Never hear that from me. Srila Prabhupada wrote in a Gita Purport "blind following is condemned.." This is an old topic for me. For all I care the Srimad Bhagavatam is simply not correct as it describes the planetary situation. That is not what I am looking for when I read it anyway. Personally there are a lot of interesting theories being proposed. Very deep. Which to me just raises another question. Why would the Bhagavatam be spoken with such hidden meanings concerning the structure of the universe to the people of this planet/dimension that would be certain to misunderstand it? Unless we are to suppose those in the vedic age understood Quantum mechanics and String theory. Doesn't the Bhagavatam also say it is self illuminating? But like I say to me it's just a beautiful globe in the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 But like I say to me it's just a beautiful globe in the sky. There was a time I used to feel in awe of the universe. I used to find it very beautiful. But now when I look at the stars, rather than noticing beauty, I start to think about nuclear processes, physical quantities etc. etc. This takes away beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 This is an old topic for me. I thought about this, I think if you go down the Jnana-yoga type path of understanding the Bhagavatam without any Bhakti mixed in then you would take many many life-times. I think there is a danger of giving up Bhakti-yoga for Jnana-yoga. Problem is Prabhu you would have to be on level of Lord Brahma to understand canto 5 {He is the Engineer of the Universe} so I can't see anybody understanding it any time soon except pure devotees. And say for example somebody says Krishna is The Supreme Personality of Godhead. Will anybody just accept this? What's the verse again: BG.7.9 After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare. And even if we did figure all this out. We'd still be running after something else. Look at Lord Brahma he created, yet while seeing Krishna in Vrindavana being looked after by Cowherds boys and girls was envious of them. !!! Anyway that said I still think its amazing. It keeps my faith growing which needs watering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 In this connection, the darkness occurring before the full moon, the lunar eclipse, can be explained as being another planet, known as Rahu. According to Vedic astronomy, the Rahu planet, which is not visible, is accepted. Sometimes the Rahu planet is visible in the presence of full moonlight. It then appears that this Rahu planet exists somewhere near the orbit of the moon. The failure of modern moon excursionists may be due to the Rahu planet. In other words, those who are supposed to be going to the moon may actually be going to this invisible planet Rahu. Actually, they are not going to the moon but to the planet Rahu, and after reaching this planet, they come back. Apart from this discussion, the point is that a living entity has immense and unlimited desires for material enjoyment, and he has to transmigrate from one gross body to another until these desires are exhausted. No living entity is free from the cycle of birth and death unless he takes to Krishna consciousness; therefore in this verse it is clearly stated (sattvaika-nishthe) that when one is fully absorbed in Krishna consciousness, in one stroke he is freed of past and future mental desires. Then, by the grace of the Supreme Lord, everything becomes simultaneously manifest within the mind. In this regard, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura cites the example of mother Yasoda's seeing the whole cosmic manifestation within the mouth of Lord Krishna. By the grace of Lord Krishna, mother Yasoda saw all the universes and planets within the mouth of Krishna. Similarly, by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, a Krishna conscious person can see all his dormant desires at one time and finish all his future transmigrations. This facility is especially given to the devotee to make his path clear for returning home, back to Godhead. __ http://srimadbhagavatam.com/4/29/69/en1 {Purport extract} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Recently on Dicovery channel I saw scientists explaing string theory other stuff etc and they explained how there ARE many more dimensions - and they gave an example very similar to the table example above. What they are now sayign is that the other dimensions occur on subamtoic levels and this is why we cannot see them - they are there but they are in such small spaces that our eyes cannot see - nevretheless when you take their quantity all together - there are quite a lot of dimensions surrounding to us while at the same time invisible to us. Hope i explained it okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hello Pankaja Dasa, ***Sometimes the Rahu planet is visible in the presence of full moonlight. It then appears that this Rahu planet exists somewhere near the orbit of the moon.*** ***In other words, those who are supposed to be going to the moon may actually be going to this invisible planet Rahu.*** I just want to know the basis of what you say . If Rahu planet is invisible(which is possible only if it is not in physical dimension), then how come anyone land on it?? You love inventing new thoeries , don't you?? Don't just stop there, please , please, please , explain to me solar eclipse and different phases of moon as well. waiting for your discovery, mini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I found one clue: TRANSLATION Of these possessions, with one step I have occupied Bhurloka, and with My body I have occupied the entire sky and all directions. And in your presence, with My second step, I have occupied the upper planetary system. PURPORT According to the Vedic description of the planetary system, all the planets move from east to west. The sun, the moon and five other planets, such as Mars and Jupiter, orbit one above another. Vamanadeva, however, expanding His body and extending His steps, occupied the entire planetary system. __ http://srimadbhagavatam.com/8/21/32/en1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Anyway that said I still think its amazing. It keeps my faith growing which needs watering. Yes this cosmos is certainly amazing. That sense of wonder and amazment we all can cultivate. It is also the only truly valuable thing that will come from the scientific endeavor. The mere facts and figures, dry calculations and theories are of themselves useless, that is, only of some temporary "trickle down" benefit to the society. So continue by all means. I also try. What I have seen though is also the dark side of this debate. People have actually given up faith and stopped chanting over this moon controversy. Seriously. So I am hoping we can talk of these things and at the same time keep our mind on the real essence of Srimad Bhagavatam. That will be to our eternal benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I would also love to hear these explained. I just want to know the basis of what you say . If Rahu planet is invisible(which is possible only if it is not in physical dimension), then how come anyone land on it?? You love inventing new thoeries , don't you?? Don't just stop there, please , please, please , explain to me solar eclipse and different phases of moon as well. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 I think invisible may mean not visible with the naked eye, where as the Moon we can see. Thats my simple theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 ***I think invisible may mean not visible with the naked eye, where as the Moon we can see. Thats my simple theory.*** Now you disappoint me !! /images/graemlins/frown.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 You mean to say that universe was existing in 5th dimension or higher and then it decided to turn into 4d and lower and BANG, it was created !! It is definitely a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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