Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "if you place one candle in a room with mirrored walls you will see billions of candles, some trillions of miles "away" from you" it will seem that way to an observer. in astrophysics the distance is often estimated by examining the wave spectrum of the object. no direct measurement of distance (like radio wave bounce of close objects, such as Moon) is possible. "What does Bhagavatam call as universe?" most of the Vedic researchers believe that everything we see is within our universe. some however think the coverings of the universe may be transparent (like in bubbles of foam) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "Vedas were written down during the time when original Vedic civilization was LONG FORGOTTEN and the language reflects that as well." The Battle of Kurukshetra marked the end of the Vedic civilization. Vedas were passed down to us mostly in the oral tradition form. language, even sanskrit, changes with time. words used formerly to describe material things like specific weapons or devices that are no longer around are lost or take on other meanings. these changes are subtle and have no impact on the Vedic spiritual siddhanta, but they do obscure the scientific and historic details that can be gleaned from the Vedas. Vedic civilization was very advanced both spiritually and materially. The Vedic spirituality was preserved quite well (both in Vedic texts and by the disciplic successions), but the material knowledge is largely lost. After all, this is the age of Kali and people dont deserve to know such things, perhaps also for their own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "Moon is higher than Sun with respect to what?" read the verses from the Bhagavatam. the planes of existence are classified based on the standard of living and in the sense of location above the surface of Garbodhaka Ocean. just like planet earth is only a small part of Bhu-mandala, the visible celestial bodies of sun and moon are only small parts of their respective planes of existence. the distances between the individual planes of existence given in Bhagavatam provide us with: the general proportions of the Universe. and that is about it! if you want to be even more confused, the lower planes of existence (sometimes called the "subterranian planets") can be accessed through portals (usually tunnel-like) in the Earth. these lower planes of existence are described to be far, far below the earthly plane, yet when you go through the portal the distance is usually very, very short. so.... wake up to the non-linear space! /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "Are you saying the Vedas was written for time and circumstance? Kali-yuga? The Vedas of Satya-yuga would look different to our present one?" yes. we Kali-yuga humans know only a tiny portion of the Vedas. Even Mahabharata is many, many times longer on the higher planets. but for the most of us even that tiny portion of the Vedas is TOO MUCH knowledge to study and comprehend. so be happy with what you have and make the best use of it! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 if you want to be even more confused, the lower planes of existence (sometimes called the "subterranian planets") can be accessed through portals (usually tunnel-like) in the Earth Do these tunnel-like portals take us to the higher dimensions? (By higher I mean other than the three space dimensions that we perceive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 no. these portals lead only to lower planes of existence or other dimensions within Bhu-mandala. practically all of them have been closed to humans for centuries. travel upwards is mostly done with the aid of demigods (i.e. when you are invited). in Satya (and possibly Treta) yuga there was a passageway (called the Susumna road I think) to higher realms, but it worked only for advanced yogis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 ***Do these tunnel-like portals take us to the higher dimensions? (By higher I mean other than the three space dimensions that we perceive)*** The portals to lower dimensions refered to as infernal dimensions or hells are not closed to us, we do visit those when we get nightmares. When we overeat before going to sleep , then it so happens sometimes that we enter those regions. "...These Infra- dimensions are deeply submerged in our nature. Obviously , I repeat, with nightmares we open the seven gateways of the atomic hells in the lower abdomen and that is when we descend into the submerged worlds." From " HELL, Devil, Karma. (Samael Aun Weor)" ***travel upwards is mostly done with the aid of demigods (i.e. when you are invited). in Satya (and possibly Treta) yuga there was a passageway (called the Susumna road I think) to higher realms, but it worked only for advanced yogis*** I have found references of Sushumna in Samael books. The road is hermitically sealed for all of us, but we can open it by the meditation of alchemy(white tantra). It is not as such closed for humanity but it has been esoteric. And rejected by most, since it is dangerous if not practised properly.The white tantra also known as Gandharva tantra has been depicted in dialogue between Shiva and Parvati. "It begins with the question from Parvati about Brahman, Yoga and the Body. Shiva defines the Brahman only. Thereupon Parvati thereupon enquires after some such secret lore as will enable the humanity to get release from the bondage of actions while enjoying the blessings of the earthly life. Shiva says that the Tantric lore is triune in nature as Tamasik, Rajasik, and Sattvik leading respectively to hell, heaven and emancipation. He advises that care should be taken to reject the first and informs that the subject matter of the Tantra is already revealed by Him to Krishna the son of Devaki and to Nandikeshvara." http://www.hubcom.com/magee/gandharv.htm From THE MYSTERY OF GOLDEN BLOSSOM(Samael Aun Weor): "All along the spinal cord a marvelous interplay is processed of various canals which permeate and interpenetrate one another without confusion because they are located in different dimensions. It is not superfluous to mention the glorious Sushumna, the famous Chitra, Centralis and Brahmanadi. Unquestionably from the latter ascends the Blazing Fire." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "The portals to lower dimensions refered to as infernal dimensions or hells are not closed to us" The portals to lower planets Vedic literature describes (and I refer to here) are the portals to Naga-loka and other realms immediatelly below earthly plane. these places are NOT hellish. quite opposite - they are the "heavenly lower planets" and they ARE closed for all practical purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 "This planetary organism on which we live has three aspects in its interior clearly defined: -First, the merely physical mineral region. -Second, the supra-dimensional zone. -Third, the infra-dimensional zone." "If we want to know the superior and inferior dimensions of the earth's interior we must develop other faculities of perception that are latent in the human race." "The three interior zones of our world are inhabitated. If in the infra-dimensions lost souls live, in the supra-dimensions dwell many Devas, elementals of a superior order, Gods, Masters, etc., who work intensively with great nature's intelligent forces" All the above from Hell, Devil , Karma. I would recommend reading this book, which can be downloaded for free when mysticweb's sister site is up. It is presently under reconstruction. Samael Aun Weor has written all this from his own intensive astral experiences. We can consciously visit these infra-dimensions to discover what is there, if we can consciously astral project. Why we do that is another matter? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 first, we have to understand the Universe ourselves. then we can present it not to material scientists (they will never accept it from us), but to open minded seekers of transcendence. that will be enough. Well I certainly don't now or envision myself ever understanding the universe. I feel more confident in just presenting the view of it as being one of the great unknowables that will entrap the consciousness is we get too involved in trying to figure it out. The only salvation being is to recognize the Intelligent Designer working behind the scenes. With that component added it all can become harmless and even an avenue for revelation from that Designer. A form of commune with Him. But to understand it in full...Never. We understand that it is the illusory energy of the Supreme. Just let me deepen that understanding as much as I am able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 From THE MYSTERY OF GOLDEN BLOSSOM(Samael Aun Weor): "All along the spinal cord a marvelous interplay is processed of various canals which permeate and interpenetrate one another without confusion because they are located in different dimensions. It is not superfluous to mention the glorious Sushumna, the famous Chitra, Centralis and Brahmanadi. Unquestionably from the latter ascends the Blazing Fire." Curious that the most important nadi, the one yogis most desire to travel through is called Sushumna. It runs straight up the spine and is interwined by the Ida and Pingala which according to the yogis intersect at what they considered to be the main chakras. Riding the serpent fire up the spinal cord through the sushmna is what the esoteric yogi surfer cults referred to as "shooting the tube", the ultimate surf experience. Hang ten baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 look, not even Lord Brahma fully understands this universe, even as he has pretty much built it on Lord Krishna's order. yet, some understanding is possible, otherwise why would Srila Prabhupada instruct us to study it and build a huge temple to house it's model. I have studied this subject on and off for many years. As my understanding deepened, I started to see more and more how important this subject really is. still, I certainly dont have a thorough understanding of it. just looking at this theread you can see how many common misconceptions are floating there among the devotees regarding this subject. misconceptions often "officially" repeated even during classes and presentations to non-devotees. these misconceptions often seriously confuse the intelligent and inquisitive new bhaktas (and even mature devotees are not free from serious doubts in this area). It is a pity, that so little effort goes into researching this subject. inquisitive devotees turn to books of dubious value precisely because they dont understand the Vedic version. these are probably some of the most intelligent seekers of Truth, and they come away from reading our books confused and conflicted. and when they try to gain more insight into these matters we often slam them with :"dont speculate! what you read here is perfect and complete!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 just looking at this theread you can see how many common misconceptions are floating there among the devotees regarding this subject. I have loads. I guess you need a scientific brain to understand it or be a devotee /images/graemlins/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Well it goes back to my question as to why we feel we need to emphasise such things anyway. It is like the Darwinian evolution theory. I don't accept it but no longer feel i have to try and inderstand it to defeat it or something. The essential flaw is that it presumes that life evolved from matter. How and if forms change into other forms is no longer of interest to me. The thing I think we need to concentrate on is the fact that no combination of material elements can produce the I am, the sense of identity. Now to some, who this subject is not so difficult, will be able to challenge the materialist from a platform of understanding the materialistic philosophies more completely and thus be able to attract themmby talking there own language. This may also impress the general public and cause them to take what we say more seriously. There is no sterotype but also I don't see a necessity for devotees to understand these various theories before they can teach aham brahmasmi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 If the moon is further from the Sun, what is a solar eclispe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Here let me make short diagram ........2............. ....................3. 1..................... ...................... ...................... 1-Earth 2-Moon 3-Sun See the height now its meant to be like this: Flip over so its like this: 3 2 1 Do you see. mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 http://geocities.com/caitanyamahaprabhu/moonthing7.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 This time I will read the whole site. So I can defeat anybody I meet /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I am wondering what happened to all the questions I asked Kulapavana ji. They seem to be all deleted. I have such a bad memory though I can't remember what I asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Is the mystery solved Mrs Marple. Look The Moon is higher. And all those calculations of Vedas are to do with Bhu-mandala. Blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hey, this picture is from that site. But why did you rotate it by 90 deg? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Look The Moon is higher. And all those calculations of Vedas are to do with Bhu-mandala. Blast. That site talks about the plane of ecliptic. This plane is the orbital plane of the Earth round the Sun. With respect to the Earth, it is the orbital plane of the Sun. This plane cuts the centre of the Sun. Therefore, the distance from this plane to the Sun should be zero. But Bhagavatam says that it is not zero. Also, the Moon is not always at the same distance from this plane. Sometimes the Moon cuts this plane, in which case its distance from the plane is zero. But, again, this is different from what the Bhagavatam says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I know that. But scientists don't know about Bhu-mandala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In SB 5.16.6 it is written that each varsa is 9,000 yojanas in length. What is the width? It it also 9,000 yojanas i.e. are the varsas square in shape? Or, is that to be calculated from other information given in Bhagavatam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 TODAY IS THE TOMORROW WE WORRIED ABOUT YESTERDAY.......Probably the best quote in the world ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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