theist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 there is the Lord in the Heart. "Dear Lord please grant me the ability to hear You from guru and sastra properly without interference from my conditioned mind. Please lead me straight to You." Or something like that. Everyone agrees Prabhupada is genuine guru. Yet people read his books and have heard directly from him in the same room and come out with sometimes opposite conceptions of what he said. Hearing is not complete until it pierces the materialy molded mind and intelligence and awakens the soul. The mind and intelligence then falling in line. Why does it get perversly reflected in the mind? Improper motives and desires which the Supersoul fullfills. Someone is positive that they heard Prabhupada say they are now to be regular guru and acarya. Someone else heard the same words and distinctly remembers Prabhupada saying first you become qualified and then you are regular guru and acarya. Why the descrepency? They were both in the room. Motives. We still have the desire to impose our minds desires and conceptions onto the gurus words. May the Lord protect of from this folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I don't think there's anything to apologize for; I just wasn't sure what you meant by that. And you have Sri Guru and His Grace on your site. You can read a little at a time--the first part, then the second, etc. That way you'll read the whole book by reading only parts. And do submit questions to your guru maharaja. That's part of the process: tad viddhi . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vijay Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Actually the point i made was something i learnt last week from a talk given in London to ISKCON youth and leadership, Its true the relationships should become more personal, due to all the past mistakes I see alot of openess now as the lid can not be shut by anyone now, which is a good thing. Openess in these issues which promotes discussion will only start to strengthen the society for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Like glasnost and perestroika, I guess. That's heartening to hear. Let's hope the words are followed by sustained action. I've heard this sort of thing before, so many times that my enthusiasm is tempered by the experience. When I lived in California, the local GBC representative would come back from Mayapura every year with the same refrain: We've kind of screwed things up in the past, but this year we've figured out where we went wrong and are on the right track. Hearing that year after year yields some caution, if not skepticism. Anyway, we'll be happy to hear how things develop there. Keep us posted with good news, Vijay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 its not what someone likes to hear...it is order!!!! hallooo... remember example of mat.calculation and not good makin FIRST calculation... it is a very simpel... mirza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 mizra are the you the guest who brought up ritvik? is that what you are talking about. I don't understand the calculation referrence. If it was a math referrence I am sorry but it would be lost on me as I rarely went to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Helping Prithu Prabhu From Parvati devi dasi Posted October 21, 2004 Dear Prabhus and Maharajas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. There are many devotees who experience this kind of depression. This is due to all kinds of reasons, including false ceilings we tend to set up for ourselves. Recently we had an experience with a very dedicated devotee who had an accident, didn't chant his rounds for a couple days while hospitalized and in dire straits, and mentally flagellated himself for the better part of the year progressively into a catatonic depression. Many senior brahmacaris here took it upon themselves to give him the benefit of their association, read to him, preach to him, endlessly. Finally they convinced him to seek help at a mental facility. He had to be carried out of his room, but he didn't resist. He probably spent one month there. The devotees took turns staying with him. Thanks and appreciation from dipika.org to our sponsor and host, Within a very short time of returning here, he was able to resume all of his normal activities, including the morning program, sitting in many morning and evening classes, and engaging in his normal service. So I present to you, who are concerned for the disciples of Prithu Prabhu, to also consider how much concern should be given to Prithu Prabhu himself. I don't know where is he is now, but I'm sure those of you who have some sort of relationship with him, or at least some respect for all his years of dedicated service to Srila Prabhupada, could work out some sort of program to give him the association he needs to get himself through this. After seeing the results of proper medication and treatment to this other devotee, I highly recommend that some loving Godbrothers, associates, disciples, take this matter into their hands immediately—delicately and lovingly. I respectfully submit this as an urgent agenda. Your servant, Parvati devi dasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 This could be a factor. Letter from His Divine Grace By following His footsteps, you can approach Nityananda Prabhu. Nityananda Prabhu approached Jagai and Madhai at the risk of being personally injured and still He definitely delivered them. The world is full of Jagais and Madhais; namely drunkards, women-hunters, meat eaters and gamblers, and we will have to approach them at the risk of insult, injury and similar other rewards. To face such reverse conditions of life and to suffer thereby the results of actions is considered as the greatest penance and austerity in the matter of spiritual advancement of life. __ Letter to: Gajendra, Los Angeles, 27 January, 1970 {extract} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I have met and talked to Prithu Prabhu more than a couple of times and to me it always a journey back to days I only had read about - the early days of ISKCON Germany (I joined in 1989). Prithu could be fun to be around, sometimes very blunt and open, sometimes wonderfully soft, and always a sincere devotee and pioneer. Yes, he is quite a character, never the one to shy away from a controversy when he spotted one. And his disciples are very special, too. My heart goes out to them. I trust that Prithu knows what and why he does what he does, but still, it is sad that he resigned. He added colour to ISKCON, and let us hope that he continues to do so. What I find absolutely unnecessary is that now the Non-ISKCONites creep up and tell that knew it all along, etc. Hey friends, have you ever heard the word "mercy"?? And if mercy is too high a concept for you, did you ever think about being helpful? I guess a resignation, fall down or what-have-you tells us as much about the resignated or fallen as it tells us about the cold-heartedness and arrogance of those who disguise themselves behind the dhotis of sweet mercy. At least Prithu was honest. What about your hearts? If they turn into stone so easily, what does that teach us about you? To cut a long story short: with all its drawbacks: ISKCON rulez, because Prabhupada rulez! So there! Haribol. guest 108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 What I find absolutely unnecessary is that now the Non-ISKCONites creep up and tell that knew it all along, etc. Hey friends, have you ever heard the word "mercy"?? ... a question that would be better asked of Prithu. Where was his "mercy" when he relentlessly criticized other Vaishnavas? Where was his "mercy" when he reminisced about beating up small children during a Bhagavatam class at Ratha-yatra? Yes, I am a "non-ISKCONite," and I will be perfectly frank. When uncultured, pushy, and offensive people like this become gurus, I admit that I find the organization which they represent to be rather unimpressive. This is not to say I have any problem with the Chaitanya school as a whole or the traditions or philosophy going along with it; in fact I have a lot of interest in the latter. It's just hard not to notice the extreme contrast of attitudes when reading, for example, the Chaitanya-charitamrita and seeing modern day post-Prabhupada Chaitanya devotees in practice. At least Prithu was honest. He wasn't honest during all those years he was ignoring regulative principles and suffering from depression. Why did he continue to accept disciples then? Only because he admits his faults now do you excuse him for not having said anything before. Meanwhile, sincere seekers have been misled, and no doubt they feel cheated. To cut a long story short: with all its drawbacks: ISKCON rulez, because Prabhupada rulez! So there! Whatever. Prithu deserves sympathy just for being a human being with the problems that he has. All living entities should be shown compassion for going through these sorts of problems. But when I hear people like this using Bhagavatam class as an excuse to lecture on ISKCON politics, I frankly am of the opinion that they should avoid leadership positions and focus on their own sadhana. If they can't live up to the title of guru, they should not be gurus. A controversial point, I know. But a correct point nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Devotee (3): Often the devotee thinks that he's more unhappy than the ka_rmis because he knows he's unhappy. Prabhupada: Then that means he is not a devotee. Devotee (3): He's not a devotee. Prabhupada: Yes. He's not devotee. Devotee means the first sign will be happy, brahma-bhuta prasannatma [bg. 18.54]. If he's not prasannatma, he's a rascal. He has not entered even devotional life. He's outside. That is the test. Just like Dhruva Maharaja. When he saw Visnu, he said, "Everything is all right. I don't want anything." Svamin krtartho asmi. That is Vaisnava. And if he is still in want or unhappiness, that means he has no spiritual life at all. He is simply making a show. (Morning Walk: April 24, 1976 Melbourne, Australia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I gots dem guru blues again momma, so hard being up when youse really down. I gots dem guru blues again momma, so hard to take 'em home when my head is spinin' 'roun'. Gettin' so dizzy on this high seat momma, fallin' off and head landing on da groun' ------------------ all will be OK with lessons learned by Prithu and his students and all those watching. It is important that others close to them be supportive in what is certainly not a little crisis for those immediately concerned. This is where ISKCON reveals itself as soft ritvik in nature as they now tell those disciples and students to take direct shelter of Srila Prabhupada, something that was supposedly out of reach for them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 About Prithu Dasa. Never heard of him in all "maya" daze. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I think that the best thing for those in these situations to do is to "renounce completely" their present position and not return to it even as an advisor in any capacity. The damage done and the obvious reactions that the present and future hold for him should be a warning to change course and literally start over. I mean that quite seriously. Many of us in our own lives on the fringe have started over many times. No point in comming down on the man,Krsna is well aware of what he has done. Sometimes those who find themselves in these situations pass by a most glorious opportunity,to show all of us how to really renounce wealth,education and followers..addmitt real guilt,tell the real truth and walk away. Hansadutta Prabhu did it. He is my example of a truly honourable man,warts and all. Leave and don't come back in a noticable fashion,concentrate on your sadhanna,read the original books,chant your rounds,eat only prasadam and start again following the 4 regs. Along with that you must ask forgiveness for misleading the devotees and then your position should be NO POSITION. Good luck. YS Hasti Gopala Dasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 hu-rah ....what better place than to brush oneself off, get off the ground cause thats where ya-all fall, then start agin--trinad api sunicena, after the fall that straw is mighty tasty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 'alas,what a sorrowful condition !today in Gaudiya Vaisnava society,the respect for Vaisnava smrti written by Sri Sanatana Goswami and instructed by Sriman Mahaprabhu is no longer present though we identify ourselves as servants of the Vaisnavas, we disgrace our line by uprooting the practice of Vaisnava smrtis, and we consider those who are trying to revive the practice of Vaisnava smrtis as enemies' ----Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami---- 'and of those who try to revive original message by sampradaya---Srilas Bhaktivinode, Bhaktisiddhanta, Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, Srila Sridhara,Srila Pramode Puri,Srila Narayana Maharajas, seen as enemies' ? ---when stones that big thrown by acaryas, take cover everyone, should read "take shelter of" wow killing of trees, killing of bears, killing of the spirit of those that would come to Krsna consciousness in modern times, after witnessing the falls of those who endeavor for years ie former sannyasis, gurus, GBC's this may be a separate topic but, "even if the Truth remains covered by insufficient study of the sastras and intense selfishness, it will certainly become apparrent in due course of time. In this age of Kali there is often no respect for the Truth among persons blinded by selfishness.Rather, disqualified persons are rewarded. Anyway if after seeing all this evidence someones selfishness is even slightly reduced, it will yield some kind of auspicious result in the world. By its own concocted arguments an unqualified community can never put real obstacles on the path of qualified brahmanas" ----Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami ----prakrti-jana-kanda--- ---Vaisnava and Bramhmana "lets get down on our knees mister" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Truth is a conscious trait , why we have such a hard time to face what is Truth if inherent, TRUTH IS INCONVERTABLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 no such thing, a Vaisnava is always ever joyfull, not 'VAISNAVERA PRAYA' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 If someone is depressed because he realizes he can never know Krsna, then that is good. It is honest, at last the world is in perspective. It marks a time for advancement. So many are so puffed-up about their sadhana, their renunciation, their scholarship, thinking that their knowledgeable opinions are so valuable, that Sri Krsna must certainly soon present Himself to such a great vaisnava. Only the helpless receive Krsna's help. The great ones never need Krsna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 "If someone is depressed because he realizes he can never know Krsna, then that is good. " if he does not take the role of spiritual master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 "If someone is depressed because he realizes he can never know Krsna, then that is good. " if he does not take the role of spiritual master Such a person would be accepted as a teacher to me. And with such a helpless state of mind could we not expect Krsna Himself to pick such a person up and place him as an atom at His own Lotus Feet? One mistake we make is assuming guru is always to be found on a Vyasasna somewhere. But actually where he is is always humbled before the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 ---prayenalpayusah sabhaya, kalav asmin yuge janah, mandah sumanda-matayo, manda-bhagya hy upadrutah---- ' O learned one, in this iron age of kali men have but short lives. They are quarrelsome,lazy,misquided,unlucky,and above all,always disturbed. purport: "The devotees of the Lord are always anxious for the spiritual improvement of the general public.'by keeping regular habits and eating simple food any man can maintain his health.'man should know what he is,what the world is,and what the supreme Truth is ! ' in this age,men are victims not only of not only political creeds or parties,but also of many types of sense gratificatory diversions,such as cinemas,sports,gambling,clubs,mundane libraries,bad association,smoking,drinking,cheating,pilferings,bickerings,and so on. Their minds are disturbed and full of anxieties due to so many different engagements. Consequently,in the name of religion so many sinfull acts are being carried on that the people in general have neither peace of mind or health of body." AC Bhaktivedanta Swami. it seems the only course of action is truely knowing where one is at in their krsna consciousness,then taking applicable course of action ie. read more adjust personal tendancies, be kind to oneself in simplicity ,kind to all others and above all that, being honest with oneself and others and pray to develop fearlessness in the face of adversity , the Lord Krsna says he will deliver the devotee and reward them accordingly as they surrender unto Him. is it imagination or is it becoming easier to leave your post of leadership leaving friends and disciples alike in the wake of failure to comply the statutes of krsna consciousness ---i hope this is not the popular trend in iskcon or any other stream of practice---simply say i'm depressed or dying of this or that and leave a bunch of aspiring souls out to dry in the winds of maya ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 In reply to: ------ "If someone is depressed because he realizes he can never know Krsna, then that is good. " if he does not take the role of spiritual master ------ Such a person would be accepted as a teacher to me. ... i agree, but as a senior brother, as a friend more expert.. not as a spiritual master who can give me krsna's vision so it is a question of seriousness and goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anadi Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 If someone is depressed because he realizes he can never know Krsna, then that is good. Only the helpless receive Krsna's help. This is true, this is Kunti's opinion on one side. Taking into account that the goal of our sadhana is to attain the stage of bhava bhakti, according to Srila Rupa Gosvami, I remembered in this connection how he describes the symptoms of the stage of bhava bhakti: kSAntir avyartha-kAlatvaM viraktir mAna-SUnyatA ASA-bandha samutkaNThA nAma-gAne sadA-ruci... SamutkaNThA is the intense longing for one’s desired object of attainment. The desire to serve Sri Krishna becomes the obsession of his heart. Hier ASA-bandha – Sri KRSNa will certainly bestow His mercy upon me - means "to apply one’s mind very diligently in bhajana with this firm faith (steadfast hope that KRSNa will bestow His mercy)". So this stage of bhava bhakti, which should have been attained by a guru, shows us that helplesness is not the characteristic of a vaishnava. Helplesness is not karpanye from sad anga saranagati. A vaishnava knows that now, every time now, Krishna will bless me with His darshan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga! Please accept my most humble obeisances! Dear Prithu dasa! As you probably can imagine, the news of your resignation was quite shaking at least within the German vaisnava family and not only in ISKCON circles. Speculation about the reasons arose and I dont't feel like adding anything to that, as I do not see much use in this anyway, not for you personally, not for your desciples and not for those that speculate. What other view is more appropriate than to think of your decision as being a sign of a final surrender to the impossibility of having the control over one's struggle with the challenges of the material energy, what we all know to be really heavy at times, sometimes heavier than we feel to be able to cope with. So this is just the result of Krsna's unconditioned mercy never to abandon any of His devotees even when we might feel like being completely helpless and alone and not able to understand Krsna's love within our suffering. It is definetly a hard time for you now and a respectable step to unveil your innermost situation to the public facing all judgement, justified or not. In your statement you ask for forgiveness for your offences what seems to me an appropriate desire. The problem is, who has the qualification to forgive? None of us can wash away sins simply by saying you are forgiven, even if we wanted to. Only Krsna and Gurudeva have such qualification. How shall WE purify YOUR heart? It is not up to us to change your karma. But it still lies in your own hands. Confession is a good start, and what is necessary next is a consciousness of having erred and an inner attitude of regret. THIS really changes a lot, and I guess Krsna would be pleased a lot as well to see such a humble devotee. For me personally this is an important point because I live in Berlin, where your desciples run a temple, and I sadly experienced the suspicious atmosphere between the ISKCON devotees and the other mathas in our city. For example, we had a Ratha-yatra festival and invited them but none of them showed up to receive Lord Jagannathas's darshana. We would really like to cooperate but your desciples seem to be paralysed according to your directions. So let me ask you to clear this point up with your desciples (who will surely have some hard challenge to face now, too) before you finally leave! I would like to thank you for your engagement and service to the Berlin yatra mostly because your temple here was the place of my own first vaisnava sadhu-sanga for about a year and I had many ecstatic saturday feasts with really good bhajana and prasadam there! My best wishes go to you and your desciples! Hope you will recover soon with the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. Hari Mohana dasa Initiated desciple of Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. (I don't know if Prithu dasa reads this forum, so I would be grateful if anyone could forward this to him!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunanda Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 very good, i'm your Godbrother and i lost friends who were Pr. Prabhu's disciples too. it's true, they were just paralized. i felt so uncomfortable about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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