what is meant by conditioned soul?

Pankaja_Dasa · October 19, 2004

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In answer to your several questions, first; what is meant by conditioned soul? Conditioned soul means one who has accepted something illusion as reality. Conditioned means that due to imperfect desires the spirit soul becomes dependent on material conditions for his satisfaction.

__ Letter to: Caturbhuja, Los Angeles, 9 May, 1973 {extract}

gHari · October 19, 2004

The pychologist conditioned dogs to salivate when they heard a bell. Similarly, we are conditioned to the pain/pleasure of maya's spell.

From <a href=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/bhpavl.html>Pavlov bio</a>:<blockquote>The work that made Pavlov a household name in psychology actually began as a study in digestion. He was looking at the digestive process in dogs, especially the interaction between salivation and the action of the stomach. He realized they were closely linked by reflexes in the autonomic nervous system. Without salivation, the stomach didn't get the message to start digesting. Pavlov wanted to see if external stimuli could affect this process, so he rang a metronome at the same time he gave the experimental dogs food. After a while, the dogs -- which before only salivated when they saw and ate their food -- would begin to salivate when the metronome sounded, even if no food were present. In 1903 Pavlov published his results calling this a "conditioned reflex," different from an innate reflex, such as yanking a hand back from a flame, in that it had to be learned. Pavlov called this learning process (in which the dog's nervous system comes to associate the sound of the metronome with the food, for example) "conditioning." He also found that the conditioned reflex will be repressed if the stimulus proves "wrong" too often. If the metronome sounds repeatedly and no food appears, eventually the dog stops salivating at the sound. </blockquote>

theist · October 19, 2004

Sex, food, movies, cars, rock and roll, $$$$$$...

ARF ARF !!!

"Roll over..." Good boy.. Here's your bone"

gHari · October 19, 2004

I liked Srila Prabhupada's analogy of the washerman's jackass. The washerman conditioned his donkey to carry huge loads of clothing all day in return for some nice hay at the end of the day, and perhaps a little romance with the she-ass, before she kicked him in the head.

The soul doesn't realize that the huge burden it carries is simply not worth the meagre payoff of this material fluff. We're conditioned to accepting the short end of the stick; then we're kicked in the head with death.

Pankaja_Dasa · October 19, 2004

He also found that the conditioned reflex will be repressed if the stimulus proves "wrong" too often. If the metronome sounds repeatedly and no food appears, eventually the dog stops salivating at the sound.

Thats amazing. I have a picture in my head of this now. Bell rings I run. I'll paste verses..

I like different Translations, it makes me see the verses in different light. I don't think a Gita verse can be pinned down erm if you get my meaning. Anyway..

Verses in Order are BR Sridhara Maharaha, Srila Prabhupada, BV Puri Maharaja.

BG As It Is .3.36

Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrsni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?

Next Verse: 3.37

The Supreme Lord replied: Certainly it is lust, born of the mode of passion, which induces a person to commit sin. Lust is the basis of the desire for sense enjoyment, and in different situations that lust becomes transformed into anger. It is utterly insatiable and extremely malicious. Know this lust alone to be the greatest enemy of the living being in this world.

The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.

The Supreme Lord said: It is lust which emanates from the material modes of passion and transforms into anger, and that is the all-devouring, formidable and sinful enemy of the living entity.

--

Purport by Prabhupada

PURPORT

When a living entity comes in contact with the material creation, his eternal love for Krsna is transformed into lust, in association with the mode of passion. Or, in other words, the sense of love of God becomes transformed into lust, as milk in contact with sour tamarind is transformed into yogurt. Then again, when lust is unsatisfied, it turns into wrath; wrath is transformed into illusion, and illusion continues the material existence. Therefore, lust is the greatest enemy of the living entity, and it is lust only which induces the pure living entity to remain entangled in the material world. Wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance; these modes exhibit themselves as wrath and other corollaries. If, therefore, the modes of passion, instead of being degraded into the modes of ignorance, are elevated to the modes of goodness by the prescribed method of Living and acting, then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath by spiritual attachment.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead expanded Himself into many for His ever-increasing spiritual bliss, and the living entities are parts and parcels of this spiritual bliss. They also have partial independence, but by misuse of their independence, when the service attitude is transformed into the propensity for sense enjoyment, they come under the sway of lust. This material creation is created by the Lord to give a facility to the conditioned souls to fulfill these lustful propensities, and when they are completely baffled by prolonged lustful activities, the living entities begin to inquire about their real position.

This inquiry is the beginning of the Vedanta-sutras, wherein it is said, athato brahma-jijnasa: one should inquire into the Supreme. And the Supreme is defined in Srimad-Bhagavatam as janmadyasya yato 'nvayad itaratas ca, or, "The origin of everything is the Supreme Brahman." Therefore, the origin of lust is also in the Supreme. If, therefore, lust is transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into Krsna consciousness-or, in other words, desiring everything for Krsna-then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized. Hanuman, the great servitor of Lord Rama, engaged his wrath upon his enemies for the satisfaction of the Lord. Therefore, lust and wrath, when they are employed in Krsna consciousness, become our friends instead of our enemies.

__

krsna · October 20, 2004

by Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja

Can you see a sadhu? Do you have the vision to see a sadhu? You are a conditioned soul. You have defective vision. How can you see a sadhu? You have developed this motto, "Seeing is believing." You say, "If I see then I will believe. Can you show me? Can you show me the Lord? Then I will believe."

But you are not prepared to admit that you are blind. You have no vision to see the Lord. Even if I show you the Lord, how can you see without vision? You are not prepared to admit your shortcoming. You are such a crooked, pretentious, duplicitous person. You are always trying to hide your defects. You are not prepared to admit them. This is proof that you are not at all simple. You are a crooked person. Be simple! If you just once say with an open heart, "Krishna I am Yours!" then immediately Krishna will accept you. He is there in your heart, but you can't cry out to Him. Your heart is filled with such filth, such duplicity and crookedness. You are never simple. And Krishna knows it.