Why does Osama Bin Laden strike fear in the hearts of so many Americans ?

[krsna]

 

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[theist]

or loathing?

[AncientMariner]

When I see a picture of Bin Laden I can't help but think of that Eminem music video where Eminem is dancing around in a cave with a white flag dressed up like Bin Laden.

 

"Christianism is Vaisnavism. Anyone who accepts the supremacy of God, he's a Vaisnava." - Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

just like medival times the barons looked after investments owned by royalty, he's caretaking american oil reserves for king Burning Bush, course osa may be reluctant to let all his people go. it is about oil isn't it, not about muslims

[Guest guest]

I remember the rastafarian saying, "To feah Jah mean to feah no mon". Not loathing. This is just another player on this stage play with the moral, "get back into the water, dear fish floppin on the pier."

 

His position is valid, perhaps the antithesis of amerikanism, but valid nonetheless. Some would even say he is krsna in the sense that he has Fame, Wealth, Power, Beauty, Knowledge and Renunciation to a degree which far surpasses ordinary folks. The fact that he is acting as a great demon does not take away from who actually has allowed his doings here on this plane, where not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord.

 

I cannot help but think of Orwells 1984, where the hero that opposed Big Brother turned out to be Big Brother himself.

 

So he kills indiscrimanately, who doesnt. Sharon does, Bush does, Kerry will, Clinton did, Arafat and Menachim and Sadat did. Oh, BTW, dja all know that WWIII began in 1974 with the first oil embargo, according to Nixon and Kissenger. It has never slowed.

 

Bin Laden is in a long line of anti-heroes that are absolutely needed for war to take place. Abu Nidal, Carlos the assassin, the red brigade, the shining path. Bin Laden just caught the US asleep at the wheel (or ranch), this is his only difference. His success preceeded 9-11, because he did Oklahoma and the first WTC bombing, and hundreds of others as well.

 

If Iraq elected a new leader soon, the real unhampered vote of the iraqi people would be a toss up, half would re-install saddam as their leader, the other half would elect bin laden. Kinda like the bush-kerry contest.

 

haribol, ys, mad mahax

[Guest guest]

<his success preceded 911, because he did oklahoma and the first wtc bombing and hundreds of others as well>

 

bin-laden or bush seriously

[Guest guest]

I can see the headlines bush wins presidency of Iraq, bin-laden defeated flees to US

[AncientMariner]

I am sure the Clintons have an upstairs bedroom in one of their New York houses that he can stay in. Wo! Ha-haaaa

[AncientMariner]

Sometimes I have wondered that myself. I have also wondered if it is possible that maybe some of the cows Americans slaughter reincarnate as p.o.ed members of Al Quaeda and various other terrorist organizations and if all this conflict is a result of our failure to protect cows.

[Guest guest]

That the palestinians who were murdered by Israelis came back as Israelis, and vice versa. It is logical, hate also being a strong emotional attachment that no sane person would harbor at the time of death. Up down, back, forth, all just samsara mixed with enemies of social, natural, and mental disruptions of consciousness (three fold miseries).

 

hare krsna, ys, mahak

 

But it is a fact that W entertained the Taliban in the summer of 2000, a cow eating orgy on the ranch, for oil. Pipeline thru Afghan. They speak the same lingo. Actually a bush-bin laden ticket is less offensive to me personally than a bush-chaney ticket. I met chaney, looked him in the eyes, and refused to shake his hand, in the presence of two Trident Submarine captains and an admiral. (the admiral thought he was an overbearing jerk as well). This was when he was giving WMD to Saddam Hussein with the blessings of the reagan bush Sr. team.

 

mad mahax

[Streetstraw]

After his Tuesday victory it was announced that sometime after Xristmas, blatant slavery (not just within prison walls) shall be reintroduced.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Things are never how they appear. OBL may not be the demagogue everyone is latching onto. He is a hired gun, this is a fact, but as in the old west, no one can really determine who was the law and who was the outlaw. Was Billy the Kid or Jesse James truely notorious, or merely defined by the times. Lioke Saddam Hussein, OBL did great service for the American cause. During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the Mudjahudeen (sp) were embraced by all americans as heroic freedom fighters, yet, they have the same goals today, they have not changed. America has changed.

 

The attack against the WTC, in my opinion, is not a direct attack on the American people. It is an attack on world government and finance. The police and firemen were great victims, as were all who died, but war is war. Some may think I favor one over another, but I do not. All war in this age is against religious principle, so I favor neither Saddam, Osama, nor Bush. I witness and preach voraciously against fellow human being participation. But I also dont engage in orwellian "ten-minute" hate sessions. If one remembers 1984, the advertized enemy of Big Brother, the propagandized anti-hero, turned out to be none other than Big Brother himself.

 

"Heaven and Earth will pass away, but My word will never pass away". Good movie, but I dont live in movies. I try to separate reality from pablum fed to us to keep us in the illusion of nationalism, racism, genderism, all the isms. ISM is a word ending meaning matter addiction, maya infection. Hari Nama, Hari Nama, Hari Nama eva kevelam, Kalau Nasteva Nasteva, nasteva gatih anyatha. This is our only reality.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

how many Americans know what he actually says?

 

who bothered to read his most recent address to Americans?

 

WHY common media do not publish full translation of that speech?

 

remember that old saying: KNOW YOUR ENEMY? do you even know what he says?

 

Bushies want you to think he is a "freedom hater" and of course Bushies are "for freedom"... LOL!!!!! what a joke!

[Guest guest]

It goes beyond common thought, something about the Law of God having validity while the laws of man cause nothing but war, famine, etc. Total nonsense, dont ya think, after all, is not nationalism (at the expense of all other nations) the highest of highs?

[Kulapavana]

yes, complete nonsense /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

after all he killed 4000 innocent Americans, Bush killed 100,000 innocent Iraqis in revenge... who is a better demon?

 

 

 

and to all of you bushies here:

 

100,000 innocent people die so that you may FEEL safe. is that fair to you? and you think you are actually devotees? LOL!

 

you are not any safer now than you were before. even from material perspective. but... do you remember: Krishna is in control?

 

[theist]

 

100,000 innocent people die so that you may FEEL safe. is that fair to you? and you think you are actually devotees? LOL!

 

 

First the numbers are screwed up despite the erronous numbers from the Gaurdian.

 

And no I do not think I am a devotee nor do I advertise myself as one.

 

[Kulapavana]

"First the numbers are screwed up despite the erronous numbers from the Gaurdian."

 

ok, maybe. nobody really knows exactly how many, but the exact number is not that relevant - it is the MAGNITUDE of this sensless carnage.

 

 

 

so, how many innocent lives sacrificed for your safety is too many FOR YOU?

 

 

 

how many thousands of innocent people will die in the current offensive, so that US can say: "people are now free to vote in this town on schedule?" do you realize how completely ABSURD that sounds?

 

 

Imagine 100,000 bodies: men, women, children, old folks... entire large town - all dead... so you can feel "safe"...

[stonehearted]

Anyone who is not disturbed by the sight of one dead or injured civilian is missing something. When I was an intelligence analyst during the Vietnam war, I saw villages with absolutely no military significance wiped off the map by high-explosive bombs on a whim. (Sorry, but Kerry was right in his testimony before congress all those years ago.) The first time I discovered this was in the spring of 1968. When a strike on a bridge on Route 1 across the Song Ma river, a few miles north of the city of Thanh Hoa in North Vietnam, was ordered, the pilots instead destroyed the villages of Phu Quang and Yen Vuc Thuong were completely destroyed. These villages had been there for perhaps 1,200 years or more. There were no homes or people left, the rice paddies were wiped out. But the bridge was unharmed. I thoroughly researched that area, and there was absolutley no reason to destroy those villages, especially when the bridge was a real threat in that it facilitated the movement of soldiers and materiel from the north to South Vietnam. And, unfortunately, this was not an isolated incident. When I showed my findings to my superiors, they just shook their heads, exhausted with the whole mess. After the night I discovered those two areas of craters that had been old villages only a couple of weeks before, I was no longer in their f***ing navy (to paraphrase Apocalypse Now's Capt. Willard), although it took more than a year for them to realize it.

 

These folks, whether it's 10,000 or 100,000, are not "collateral damage." They are ordinary people, just like your nieces, your grandmother, your sister. As Matthew McConahey's character in A Time to Kill might say, take a good, long look at those pictures of destroyed neighborhoods and dead and injured locals, a good, long look. Then imagine they are Americans.

 

So how many apparently innocent dead are too many to ensure our comfortably watching cable TV, clicking away on our broadband internet connections, going to the store to buy dark chocolate-covered macadamia nuts (yes, I'm including myself)?

[Kulapavana]

I come from a long line of soldiers in my family lineage, most of them died in different battles. In this lifetime I was blessed with a war-free life, but the war nightmares from my past life haunted me for decades.

 

My father still lives with war nightmares from his current life. As a child, I remember him tossing in the sleep, mumbling: "I had to kill you. These were the orders...". He is a respected WW2 historian and is still trying to make moral sense of his part in that war.

 

As a Boy Scout in Poland I visited many war cemeteries and cleaned many, many graves. I can close my eyes and still see almost endless rows of crosses, with often many soldiers buried under one of them, often without names.

 

My perspective on the war does not come from a liberal point of view. I'm not a pacifist and Lord help anybody who tries to harm my family. Sometimes violence is required. But I despise people who wage wars across the world, slaughtering innocent people by tens of thousands, claiming they are doing it for my good... If they are not demons, I dont know who is...

[theist]

Is especially demonic. So is terrorism. It has been hashed and rehashed more than enough for me. Funny how the left never complains about the terrorists using schools and hospitals as well as Mosques to hide their weapons and themselves in.

 

But then they really can't look at the whole picture and complain because someone might ask them to provide a solution.

 

Until they offer a better alternative I just consider them so much useless noise.

 

Concerning Viet Nam ,well I registered as a conscientious objector, public tore up my draft card in a public park demonstartion and vocally supported the anti-war movement by selling revolutionary papers in the streets and harrassing the local draft board.

 

Most of your views are worn out on me and long since discarded.

 

In fact being on the streets is how I ran in the sankirtana party, they beat me to "my" corner.

 

My views on everything changed from that day on.

[Kulapavana]

"Modern warfare is especially demonic. So is terrorism"

 

yes. both bush and binladen are demons engaging in demonic activities. I have been saying that all along.

 

 

 

"Most of your views are worn out on me and long since discarded"

 

whatever... hope you can sleep easy knowing innocent people are slaughtered at a steady rate to keep you "safe". Demons like bush hold power because naive people think he can make them "safer". Has injustice ever led to safety? Safe are the people who know Lord is their Shepherd. All others live in fear and kill innocent people trying to steady their hearts. Peace to you my friend...

[AncientMariner]

Is it possible that at least some of the Iraqi's who are dying in this war feel that they are fighting for a just cause? How safe and secure did you feel when Saddam was slaughtering hundreds of thousands of his own people? How often did you turn a blind eye to that carnage when you were sippin on your starbucks? Being a Buchananite isolationist I am quite happy to ignore the rest of the world but its seem real easy for these Clinton justice lovers to jump on the Bush hating bandwagon. To me strategic political assasinations and various covert operations is a better way to deal with terrorism than big ass wars but still as Clinton proved doing nothing doesn't solve the problem. I aint trying to be critical, just fair and balanced.

[stonehearted]

 

theist:Funny how the left never complains about the terrorists using schools and hospitals as well as Mosques to hide their weapons and themselves in.

 

 

I don't know whether to laugh or scream when those who identify with the right use this one. It's clearly bullpuckey. Everyone condemns that. And it's not a new tactic. One of the things I had to get used to while I was in the navy was just what was targeted, and why. The Vatican had a BE (Bombing Encyclopedia, whic was the catalog of aerial targets all over the world, and whose title was later changed to the euphemistic Basic Encyclopedia) number. In North Vietnam, maternity hospitals had BE numbers. Any place that might be used for or mistaken for military purposes had a number. My job was keeping track of all those aerial targets all over Southeast Asia.

 

My family also includes many who served in the military, all the way back to the Revolutionary War. So I know that violence is sometimes necessary. My father joined the navy in 1941, went to boot camp on Dec. 1. His first duty station was Pearl Harbor, where he was a photographer, and where they were still engaged in the recovery of bodies from the destroyed ships in the harbor. His job was documenting those efforts, photographing the broken, burned, bloated bodies of the sailors, many of whom were very much like him--18, from small towns or farms, etc. After the war, he didn't hate Japanese. We had many dinner guests from Japan over the years (folks he did business with). When we moved from California to Virginia, the man who bought our house was a Japanese American. Our neighbors freaked out and said nasty things about Dad, accusing him of block busting (this was in the San Fernando Valley, not Atlanta!) and other things. He was shocked, especially because this man was a WWII vet who served with the 442nd in Europe while his family languished in an internment (prison) camp. And my old man was never a liberal. He has always been a very conservative Republican, somewhere to the right of Limbug. But he has a sense of right and wrong. I remember that when I was 5 or 6, when I became aware that there had recently been a big war and that he had served in it, I asked him who won the war. His reply: "Billy, no one ever wins a war." (He did, however, lose respect for God and has been an agnostic of one sort or another since January 1942.)

 

Abhorrence for the cavalier taking of innocent life is not a liberal, lefty attitude, but a human one. And the whole picture of the war includes this senseless killing. Anyone who doesn't condemn it, who tries to ignore, minimize, or finesse it, is probably evil, stupid, or both, and therefore incapable of offering anything other than noise.

[Tarun]

Concerning one such so-called outlaw, one true Amerikan wrote & sang:

"U say that I'm an outlaw,

U say that I'm a thief.

Here's a Christmas dinner,

4 the families on relief."

(1912-1967 Woodie Guthrie)

While Hoover & Co were busy Vacuuming up every ass-et in sight 1928-1932...

Jay Leno's Jaywalking graphically proves at least once per week your average Amrkn College student knows diddly squat about Amrkn or World History.

Sinmilar to some on this website.

 

[stonehearted]

Yeah--there's a brilliant move! (I'm referring to the current Fallujah effort.) Do you think Zarqawi and the other bigs haven't already blown town?

 

AM: Is it possible that at least some of the Iraqi's who are dying in this war feel that they are fighting for a just cause?

 

B: Killing other combatants is one thing, and it's bad enough. Just ask Kulapavana's father. But, as I understand it, the issue here is the number of noncombatants killed.

 

I agree that covert operations may be more effective in such situations. We have people trained for special ops. One of my old gurukula students is a Navy SEAL. (They all wanted to grow up to be ksatriyas; he did.) And Bush isn't the issue either, just the poster boy (that's what he signed up for!).