So Prabhu, what do you think of the model of the new Mayapur Temple ???

[krsna]

 

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Guest guest]

It looks like something out of a David Cronenberg film--Naked Lunch.

[Guest guest]

How do they expect people to fit into there?

[Srijiva]

I think it is cool. It seems it has been in the works for some time now...

[stonehearted]

Does it bear any resemblance to what Srila Prabhupada said to build? I'm just not sure about this whole project. They've been fiddling around, going back and forth, and spending huge amounts of money, for a very long time. I'm sure it makes them feel important, and having this meeting with models, drawings, and attendees with deep pockets makes them feel as though they're accomplishing something. In those years, though, many other "spiritual" organizations have built enormous, impressive temples all over the world. So has ISKCON, but this one seems to be a big boondoggle. Perhaps it's the concept--the idea that it has to be bigger and flashier than any other temple in Gauda, even looking down on the temple Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati built at the Yogapitha, and the planetarium illustrating someone's idea of the a 5th-Canto cosmography, in order to defeat mundane scientists. I've heard that Srila Prabhupada's original idea for the planetarioum part was an illustration of Sanatan's Brihad-bhagavatamritam, but some of the devotees convinced Srila Prabhupada that this would work instead. In the meantime, we have several different ideas of how to construct a universe according to the 5th Canto of the Bhagavatam.

 

Anyway, they're gonna do what they will, and it has very little to do with my small life. I'm just glad they're having fun.

[KBnut]

Fine with me as long as my sandals don't get stolen while I'm inside.

[Guest guest]

Did anybody go to Thennangur? I think the temple there looks similar to this.

Its a temple built by swami Haridas Giri, for Krishna.

The temple is so divine, there are not enough words to describe it.

 

[Guest guest]

babhru:

Anyway, they're gonna do what they will, and it has very little to do with my small life. I'm just glad they're having fun.

 

-------------

 

It gets weirder all the time. Iskcon is in Rudradwip, not Mayapura, and now they will be building something that overshadows Mahaprabhu's birthplace in importance, in the eyes of the ignorant. But surely some devotees will walk out the gate, go up the road towards the Yoga-pitha, and find.... something better.

- murali

[vijay]

"It gets weirder all the time. Iskcon is in Rudradwip, not Mayapura, and now they will be building something that overshadows Mahaprabhu's birthplace in importance, in the eyes of the ignorant. But surely some devotees will walk out the gate, go up the road towards the Yoga-pitha, and find.... something better."

 

Its such a shame when ever someone tries to do any good only fault is found, just as when prabhupada bought devotees to mayapur local vaishnavs would critises as prabhupada ate food from so called unclean 'mellechas'. They could not go beyond that conception. Nityanand prabhu and haridasa takhur would go into ecstasy if some soul became a devotee by chanting the name of krsna once as they went door to door begging them to chant, he appreciated such so called 'small' service, however this service is not small it is the greatest thing, we mundanize it with our egos.

 

Im sure Mahaprabhu would be very happy with any small service like building a temple which propogates the mission he established. Only a fool would think 'this is not good the ignorant will think it will overshadow mahaprabhus birth place therefore better not to build it' Prabhupadas mission and other senior vaishnavas have attracted many devotees to mahaprabhus birth place, thinking that any temple where the lord is being worshipped will overshadow and not enhance the glories of the dham are fools.

[stonehearted]

And it's a real shame that, whenever some one asks what we think about something, and one of us expresses something a little different from ISKCON's party line, you have to brand it as envy. This thread opened by asking us to express our opinions about the design for the temple. If it ever gets built, it will be big and flashy, and that will be of some benefit to those who are attracted by such things. Indeed, Krishna should be glorified beyond anyone else. But Muralidhar is simply pointing out that, to the extent this project is meant to overshadow all others, it is likely to disturb many dhamavasis who are our well wishers.

 

And it's more of a shame that less experienced devotees feel no compunction about so freely criticizing devotees with Murali's broad, deep experience in serving the Vaishnavas. This reflects very poorly on whatever training they may be given by the leaders of their communities. I haven't met Muralidhar personally, but I know him well enough to be certain that your branding him as envious is mistaken, and a big mistake, too, if you know what I mean. It would more to your advantage to inquire from him about how to advance in service to guru and Gauranga than to call him names.

[theist]

Is this type of temple in the proper mood of Mayapur? I've never been there but...well isn't it a bit much?

 

I found this on another station and I think this person's points should be seriously considered.

 

---------------

Consider environmental impact of Mayapur Project

by Shyammurty das

 

Posted November 26, 2004

 

 

We should be rather building temple of the heart, where Krishna can actually come and stay. The massive temple buildings in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya is something recent; if you study histories from Lord Caitanya up to the time of Srila Bhkativinoda Thakura, there was hardly any emphasis on temple building.

— Isvara das (GGS), Touchstone Media

 

Building a massive temple to support 50,000 residents and millions of tourists and concreting the island will cause irreparable loss to the ecosystem of Mayapur.

 

I have studied the Master Plan and discussed this issue with several environmental scientists and town planners, including one Mr. Lalit who is serving for Auro Future in Auroville, Pondichery). During 1997 or so, Lalit was at Mayapur as a Town Planner on the project team preparing the Mayapur Master Plan.

 

I have deeply thought about the consequences of urbanizing Mayapur. Mayapur is not like other temple cities like Tirupathy, Visvabharathy or Dharmsala; it is a small island surrounded by perennial holy rivers. Degrading the quality of land, water and air will lead to irreparable environmental loss to Mayapur. Its beauty as a village should be preserved; it is "hidden Vrindavan"; why should we urbanize Mayapur, like Vrindavan?

 

A massive temple will mean hectic fund raising and destruction of the habitat.

 

Our mission is to spread the holy names of the Lord. We need preachers and Krishna conscious communities. Temples have a lower priority in Kali Yuga.

 

The ecosystem of Mayapur consists of a variety of flora and fauna, and we should preserve them. Mayapur can adapt the development model of Auroville and think of building an eco-friendly and sustainable environment. We should not make Mayapur as a concrete jungle.

 

Mayapur is surrounded by the holy perennial rivers with a delicate ecosystem; tampering with this will have catastrophic effects on the environment in the long run. Mayapur may disappear again if the rivers join together due to shifting patterns and erosion of the landmass by the rivers. The offshoot of urbanization will be pollution, and proliferation of damage to the natural resources. We can present a virtually endless number of points against the construction of a massive temple and consequent urbanization of this village.

 

Instead we can think of a sustainable model for development and, at the same time, focus on our core activity of preaching and book distribution. We can convert Mayapur to be a learning center for the whole world. We can build sustainable devotee communities focused on Vaishnava education, and follow the principle of "simple living and high thinking".

 

A massive temple means a lot of business opportunity and its impact on spiritual development. Present-day ISKCON is riddled with high-pressure internal conflicts because we have converted this movement from preaching to fund raising. Fund raising should be a secondary activity; we should not take up projects with heavy investments to reveal our ego as a great people among Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

 

MAC is developing Mayapur as a business center. Land prices have been artificially boosted by ISKCON's greed to grab the land around. Having grabbed all the land, ISKCON is not, however, using the land resources. Simple living has become impossible due to such artificial demand created by ISKCON. This trend has to be reversed.

 

We can laterally focus on Vaishnava Education and Training. Thus we can develop hundreds and thousands of preachers in a large scale. We can develop an excellent university offering Vedic science for the whole world. We can use our land resources for practicing Daiva Varnashrama and follow the principle of "simple living and high thinking". By this we can satisfy Srila Prabhupada's priorities like preaching and book distribution.

 

The Mayapur Master Plan has not taken into consideration the environmental impact of this project. There were recommendations for setting up cottage and handicraft industry as part of the development plan in and around the project area; it does not mean anything, and there is no specific measure to preserve the environment from destruction. If we are truthful and sincere to the Dham and its residents (including its habitat) then, as a priority, we should undertake a study on the environmental impact of this project with an open mind. This should be the deciding factor for the New Temple project.

 

Finally, I would like to tender my sincere apologies if I have offended anyone by expressing my frank opinion on this issue.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Friends,

 

I have met people who have come back from visiting ISKCON Mayapur, and who say things such as "You don't need to go to Jagannatha Puri to see Lord Jagannatha, because you can see Jagannatha at the ISKCON temple in Mayapura."

 

Well, YES you can see Jagannatha at ISKCON Mayapura, but golly, I have been to the Rathayatra of Jagannatha in Puri a couple of times with my Gurudev, and what I saw there was something different from and wondeful. Something you won't find anywhere else.

 

I've been to ISKCON Maypura. I've see what they have done, and the Pancatattva insallation and other things are nice to see. But I have no interest in going to see the Vatican or anything like it, simply because it is grand, and it takes more than a big roof to make a place a holy place.

 

Consider also, the fact that the new roadworks in Mayapura and other new "improvements" are not welcomed by many Vaishnavas in temples outside iskcon. Not because of envy, but because the new roads etc are planned to go bulldozing through some other temples. Even at some temples the building the road to iskcon will go right through the temples and samadhis of exalted vaishnavas who are buried in those places. Destroy everything else, and build a road to iskcon. But some devotees have said they are willing do die rather than let these roadworks go ahead.

 

Envy? Vaishnava aparadha?

 

 

 

 

[theist]

I admittedly know nothing about this project at all. But I would hope that before such a huge thing is undertaken that a consensus would be reached with the local folks so that it would be welcomed by all. Sure there are always a few malcontents. But all in all it shouldn't be something that is imposed.

 

And if that building roads over samadhis is factual then what the ___K is that all about? You can't do that. Even if you hold a different spiritual viewpoint and the landrights you still can't do that.

 

If we accept what we say about Mayapur being a sacred spot, a dhama, then we must respect the present residents and their feelings. I'm not saying that respect is not there as I don't know either way but I only hope it is.

[Guest guest]

"Its such a shame when ever someone tries to do any good only fault is found, just as when prabhupada bought devotees to mayapur local vaishnavs would critises as prabhupada ate food from so called unclean 'mellechas'."

 

 

Here is a picture of my Guru eating prashad cooked by "mlecchas" at ISKCON Mayapura.

 

 

 

-murali

[vijay]

First let me apologise for any offences I caused that wasnt my intention. Also me quoting that story of local vaishnavas being envious of srila prabhupada was not ment to insult any senior vaishnavas or any ones guru maharaj, the point was that we must try and see the good in devotees not constant fault finding constructive is okay but what i see is not constructive. I didnt "brand" anyone envious, I just said anyone with that motivation or mentality is envious, if the shoe fits it fits if it doesnt than thats good.

 

 

"I'm sure it makes them feel important, and having this meeting with models, drawings, and attendees with deep pockets makes them feel as though they're accomplishing something. In those years, though, many other "spiritual" organizations have built enormous, impressive temples all over the world. So has ISKCON, but this one seems to be a big boondoggle. Perhaps it's the concept--the idea that it has to be bigger and flashier than any other temple in Gauda, even looking down on the temple Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati built at the Yogapitha"

 

Your comments are just so critical its annoying so sorry i have to speak up no its not because its " little different from ISKCON's party line" I dont mind theists post about keeping it simple may be thats an alternative but your posts are just rude.

 

Its like you generalise everyone and it seems like that they have no intention of pleaseing prabhupada they are just doing things out of ego.

"makes them feel important, and having this meeting with models, drawings, and attendees with deep pockets makes them feel as though they're accomplishing something."

Mr phychic, i guess. Or ISKCON has made so many mistakes this is must be another one so they must be thinking in this way.

 

Srila prabhupada seems to of wanted "big and flashy" temples.

 

Letter to Tamala krishna goswami 71-08-14 I have already engaged Nara Naryana, Vasudeva and Ranchor to prepare a grand scale plan for the Mayapur land and as ...

 

Letter to gopal krishna goswami, Regarding the mayapur center, this is almost settled up that we shall have a temple there. Very soon we shall purchase a piece of land there, so when you return to india it will be in your charge for constructing a temple in grand scale there.

 

Bhaktivinoda takhur enviged a centre in mayapur where all the russians, british, germans will come and chant the Holy names of krishna.

 

Maybe there are other ways of doing it but theres no need to degenerate the management that they are doing this to feel important blah blah.

 

"And it's more of a shame that less experienced devotees feel no compunction about so freely criticizing devotees "

 

Well if you wernt so freely critising devotees in your subtle ways then maybe people like me would learn.

 

"This thread opened by asking us to express our opinions about the design for the temple. If it ever gets built, it will be big and flashy, and that will be of some benefit to those who are attracted by such things. Indeed, Krishna should be glorified beyond anyone else. But Muralidhar is simply pointing out that, to the extent this project is meant to overshadow all others, it is likely to disturb many dhamavasis who are our well wishers. "

 

Thats right it began like that but then you decided to be a phychologist or a phychic and speculated that the managemnt are doing this to feel important and overshadow others in your not so subtle way.

 

I dont see it as an offence to crisize, uncontructive critisers.

 

My apologies to Murli if I took your words in the wrong way. Im sure all of you vaishnavas have had much more experience and mercy than what il ever get. But just be careful of vaishnava aparhad it will turn all of that into ashes. And dont get an ego trip with how much service you have done and therefore feel its okay to critise others. Rupa kaviraja was on the stage of bhava but look what happened when he commited vaishnava apahrad, we are no where near that level (else we wont be on a bullitien board speculating on devotee mangers intentions) so please you should also be careful.

[Guest guest]

Vijay, "not constant fault finding". cough cough

[vijay]

okay occasional (or maybe even the first time) unconstructive, unsubstantiated fault finding.

 

Its very danjerous for our own spirtual lives no matter how advanced we think we are and those that we are an example for will also follow as we have seen. Any unsubstantiated offence to any type of devotee, belonging to any math or instutution, is the begining of the end. I have personally offended gurus and vaishnavas by speach and mind in iskcon and outside iskcon and have felt loss of taste in krishna conciousness, slowly we stop appreciating those devotees that are chanting krishnas holy names and dedicated thier lives to krsna we end up seeing their faults,and mundanaze bhakti with our mental speculations. We feel happy when a new bhakta comes and starts chanting the holy names, but critises those that have dedicated their lives to krishna and see (worse speculate) on thier faults instead of feeling bliss that these devotees are trying. Spirtual life will become depressing and may even temporarily stop. No one has ever been punished for glorifying vaishnavas for what little they do, but for offending a devotee the price is high.

 

Quotes

Advanced devotee never disobey or disrespect another devotee. Disrespect to another devotee is a great offense. Vaisnava aparadha. Vaisnava aparadha is very serious offense. Therefore we teach to address amongst the devotees, "Prabhu", "Prabhu", "Such and such Prabhu." This should not be simply spoken by the lips. It should be realized. Everyone should think other devotee as his prabhu, master. Not he should try to become master.

 

Of all sinful activities, an offense to a pure devotee, or Vaisnava, is the most severe. An offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava is so disastrous that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has compared it to a mad elephant that enters a garden and causes great havoc by uprooting many plants and trees. If one is an offender at the lotus feet of a brahmana or Vaisnava, his offenses uproot all his auspicious activities. One should therefore very carefully guard against committing vaisnava-aparadha, or offenses at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava.

 

Durvasa Muni, unless you beg pardon from Ambarisa Maharaja, there is no question of excusing you. The sudarsana-cakra will not excuse." Therefore Vaisnava aparadha is very, very offensive. You should be very careful. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has warned vaisnava aparadha, hati mata. Vaisnava aparadha, offense at the feet of Vaisnava, is exactly like mad elephant.

 

 

[stonehearted]

Vijay, I'm not trying to play psychic or psychoanalyze anyone. My response is based on 35 years' experience with these people. I admire their energy and respect their desire to please Srila Prabhupada. But many of them shout out their loyalty to Srila Prabhupada and run over everyone else in the process of establishing themselves as the best servants of His Divine Grace. I sincerely doubt that Srila Prabhupada would have encouraged his disciples and their disciples to wreak havoc and do whatever they can to p**s off the dhamavasis, many of whom are likely suddha vaishnavas. I doubt that he would have said, "Sure, go ahead and bulldoze other temples and countless samadhis to build our temple." And, because he advocated simple, village life and was more aware than you and I that Mayapura and Vrindavan are based on agrarian village life (materially and spiritually), I seriously doubt that he would have told us to rip up the dhama so we could have the biggest temple around.

 

I do respect their efforts to please Srila Prabhupada, but what pleases him most is our becoming Krishna conscious. An old book distritbutor once told me that some book distributors once asked Prabhupada how theycould best please him. His answer (not what they expected) was, "You can please me best by becoming Krishna conscious." But we cannot become Krishna conscious if we disregard other devotees, whatever our position in any spiritual society may be. Some of those who shouted their loyalty the loudest were undone by their offenses, and their loyalty was shown to be superficial. One former big leader in Mayapura once boasted that he never read any books but Srila Prabhupada's, that he had no regard whatsoever for any other books. And he demonsrated this practically, according to a witness, by stomping on a copy of Sri Gaudiya Kanthahara. His offensive nature neceissitated his removal from his position of grace. More recently, another loud "Prabhupada man," famous for running roughshod over everyone, including some advanced devotees and his own family, had to admit (however feebly--he seems still attached to the idea that what he did was all spiritual) that he was not up to the standard. And there are countless others in between. I have encountered this attitude more times than I care to remember. What's ultimately important, of course, is their aspiration to serve Srila Prabhupada. But the realization of that aspiration will continue to elude those who don't know how to realate with others, especially other vaishanvas.

 

If those pushing this project cannot respect other vaishnavas, their desire to glorify Srila Prabhupada with big buildings will be frustrated.

 

So be annoyed with me all you want. I'm generally known for temperance in my remarks. One sannyasi godbrother told me recently that I may sometimes run too much to the "harmonizing" side. But I'm not going to sit around and participate in vilification of experienced devotees such as Muralidhar. If my remarks on this thread seem harsh to you, it's likely because I don't jump into the echo chamber of unreserved praise for something just because it's meant to glorify Srila Prabhupada. The best monument will be our purified hearts, our demonstrating such character that people will find that irresistible. That's what attracted me to Srila Prabhupada, not big temples or any such trappings. In fact, there were no such things when I joined. And my enthusiasm for chanting and making spiritual progress has not flagged, ever.

[Guest guest]

Iskcon's hope is gentlemen like you Babhru.

[kalikalki]

My Guruji has told me that Temples/Ashrams happen only because of God's Will, and I truly believe that.

 

And whether it's an earthy cave or a monument as epic as the Himalayas, I'll be there with my complete heart and mind.

 

I like it. I think I could find a nice prayer spot there and share it with a spider or with one of the 50,000 that I hope will come too.

[krsna]

Yes, good preaching this harmony amidst diversity rather than unity amongst uniformity. Long live the soft-hearted Vaisnavas which in Kali-yuga are very rare indeed.

 

____________________________

 

The best monument will be our purified hearts, our demonstrating such character that people will find that irresistible. That's what attracted me to Srila Prabhupada, not big temples or any such trappings. In fact, there were no such things when I joined. And my enthusiasm for chanting and making spiritual progress has not flagged, ever.

 

_____

[vijay]

My point has never been that you shouldnt speak out against offensive vaishnavas who trample on books, or offend vaishnava's. Nor speak out against vaishnava's who advocate bull dozing samadhis to build a temple, nor speaking out against those so-called prabhupada men who offend other vaishnava's. My point is that do not generalise all vaishnavas who are trying to manage according to prabhupadas will as the same and speculate that they are doing something with ill motives. If you have substantiated reason and evidence then do so. There may be advanced vaishnavas and less advanced vaishnavas involved in the management to generalise all of them saying they want to feel important making 'big and flashy' temple, 'fidling' round with models, and big budgets making them selves feel good overshadowing other gaudiya temples.

 

This is not vaishnava this is suspicion and speculation and plane wrong to generalise like that. Devotees like ambrisha prabhu who have also spent more that 30 years assiting prabhupada in whatever way he can, like pankajangeri prubhu spending his life dedicated to worshipping the lord are also involved, please be specific in your critisims, with your machine gun of words you may end up critising those that do not deserve it.

 

You also seem to be well respected on this forum so you have a responsibility and power to influence others. What you do other will follow. So more reason to be carefull. You do not need to Jump in to any echo chamber of unreserved praise prabhu, just dont fall into the chamber of unreservered, unjustified and generalised critisim of vaishnavas. As you said "The best monument will be our purified hearts, our demonstrating such character that people will find that irresistible". Lets try to be like that.

[stonehearted]

Vijay, my initial response was a general observation about the way the project has been handled. I had no intention of making any accusations. I'm certain that there has been vigorous discussion and that some involved with the project who advised more caution than seems to characterize the way it's being carried out. I don't know who specifically has done or said anything in particular; I'm not an ISKCON insider. I didn't criticize anyone, whether Pankajanghri, Ambarisha, Pancaratna, Jayapataka Maharaja, or anyone. I exressed my opinion about the way the project has been conducted over the last 20-odd years.

 

I do note, though, that you didn't take issue with my response to the project until I took exception to your calling Muralidhar, and others who aren't as enthusiastic about the project, envious. I don't consider your objecting to overgeneralization an offense. If I've offended any one devotee by doing such, that's certainly an error. If you can point out any offense I've committed against any devotee in this thread, other than yourself, I will approach that devotee and apologize, begging their forgiveness.

[theist]

Consider also, the fact that the new roadworks in Mayapura and other new "improvements" are not welcomed by many

Vaishnavas in temples outside iskcon. Not because of envy, but because the new roads etc are planned to go bulldozing through some other temples. Even at some temples the building the road to iskcon will go right through the temples and samadhis of exalted vaishnavas who are buried in those places. Destroy everything else, and build a road to iskcon. But some devotees have said they are willing do die rather than let these roadworks go ahead.

 

 

[vijay]

"my initial response was a general observation about the way the project has been handled" I think it was way tooo general and of course its an accusation how can it not be?

 

"I'm sure it makes them feel important, and having this meeting with models, drawings, and attendees with deep pockets makes them feel as though they're accomplishing something. In those years, though, many other "spiritual" organizations have built enormous, impressive temples all over the world. So has ISKCON, but this one seems to be a big boondoggle. Perhaps it's the concept--the idea that it has to be bigger and flashier than any other temple in Gauda, even looking down on the temple Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati built at the Yogapitha"

 

"I'm sure it makes them feel important, and having this meeting with models, drawings, and attendees with deep pockets makes them feel as though they're accomplishing something."

 

Do you actually have any idea who is involved? who are your critisisms aimed at?

 

"I didn't criticize anyone, whether Pankajanghri, Ambarisha, Pancaratna, Jayapataka Maharaja, or anyone." You must be joking how do you know they arent involved how do you know you didnt critisise them?

 

As you have said "I don't know who specifically has done or said anything in particular; I'm not an ISKCON insider."

 

So you dont know anything yet you group everyone in the managemnet as one and give your specific idea of thier motivations via your specualtion based on the strangth of your years of experience even though admiting not knowing.

 

 

" do note, though, that you didn't take issue with my response to the project until I took exception to your calling Muralidhar, and others who aren't as enthusiastic about the project, envious. "

 

First thing as ive already said i havent branded murli envious (and definately not anyone else) if the shoe fits it fits, its none of my business, it up to him if he or you think that theres any truth to what im saying and it applies then take it if not dont worry about it. Hey were all envious to some extent else we wouldnt be in this material world.

Yes i did reply to him and not you because he agreed with you and added his own bit. I didnt want to reply to you as im already aware of your initial generalisations last time we spoke, about gramatical mistakes, puntuation etc and knowing the intentions of sivarama swami (more phycicness)

and me being a junior and you having so many years of experience your allowed to do that.Therefore i didnt really feel like speaking to you. Any way it ticked me off when you started talking about murlis years of experience and how i reflect bad on my seniors blah blah. Well what you say reflects bad on juniors like me and your own seniors. Thinking you have the adhikar to critisise people you admit you dont know anything about or what theyve said yet find an ill motive is not vaishnava behaviour.

 

Im not offended but am ticked of that you use your seniority and your so-called years of expeiernce to some how give you the adhikar to make unsubstantiated critisisms especially as I know some of the devotees involved, you lump them toghether with your speculations. This isnt the stock market or horses where you specultae what is happening these are vaishnavas, krishnas devotees, at least have some knowledge of who your critisizing and who has said what before you critise everyone in such a general way, be careful of vaishnava aparadha.

 

Anyway I also know that i shouldnt be speaking to senior devotees in such ways as im living off thier prashad, but i should also not tolerate speculated, unjustified, overgeneralised critisism of devotees some of which i know and highly respect they are very nice and humble devotees who genuinely want to serve srila prabhupada.

 

Anyway enough of this, I do sincerley apologise for any offences I do feel bad everytime I speak to senior devotees in this way, but this is outwieghed by the annoyance i feel when they critise other devotees. Im sure not many on this thread are offended by your words but thats besides the point, its about whether unsubstantiated general critisism like that are justified or not.

 

Hare Krishna