Tilak

[SubashRao]

 

 

<font color="blue">PAMHO</font color>

 

hi,

 

I would like to know more about tilak.

Why is it in that shape?....

Why does Lord Shiva's tilak is different?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

Tilak comes in many shapes depending on the group that the person who wears it belongs to. Our Gaudia Vaisnava tilak has the "U" on the forhead because we are servents of Krishna, this "U" is Krishna's footprint. Because we don't approach Krishna directly we have the symbol of the tulasi leaf below Krishna's footprint. We approach Krishna through His pure devotee, Srimati Tulasi devi, and Tulasi devi is always on the lotus feet of Krishna.

 

You will see many other tilaks, some with red lines/dots - these represent Laksmi devi.

 

I do not know the specifics on why Saivites wear the three lined tilak. I know this is the specific tilak worn by the impersonalists, we are instructed in the Nectar of Devotion that it is an offense to wear this tilak.

 

hope this helps.

 

ys, NSD

[Guest guest]

hare krishna

 

 

<<<<we are instructed in the Nectar of Devotion that it is an offense to wear this tilak.>>>

 

what do u mean by the above statement??

 

i would like to know the importance of a "TILAK"

 

 

[Sunandaji]

V tilak:

one line is Krsna, the other Radha, and they meet each other on a Tulasi leaf. Tilak is the footdust of the Gopis.

[SubashRao]

 

thanx for the info...

did Srila Prabupada talked on this anytime before?

 

 

how could wearing the three lined tilak be an offense?

Saivites are devotees of a great devotee of lord krishna...

they are following Lord Shiva...

 

will check on 'Nectar of Devotion '...thanx

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

 

how could wearing the three lined tilak be an offense?

Saivites are devotees of a great devotee of lord krishna...

they are following Lord Shiva...

 

 

 

Some shaivites are impersonlists and their tilak signifies this, so it is an offense as it denies the personality of Krishna. Others consider Lord Shiva as the Supreme Lord and Lord Vishnu as being subservient to him, which is also an offense. Worshipping Lord Shiva in the proper understanding as the greatest vaishnava is certainly very good, even Srila Narada sometimes did it.

[kirstan]

Sita Ram,

 

Sri Lord Krishna in Chapter 9 of the Bhagavad Gita says,

(paraphrased), "Any act/offering done for me in worship, I accept...a leaf , a cup of water, a stone. "

 

A person places a tilak on themselves as a form worship, it it never an offense to God, Sri Lord Krishna even states,

"Even criminals who worship me will soon find their way to me and I will accept them"

 

It's best not to get caught in the trappings of deciding who and what God finds offensive, only God knows.

 

Take care of your own worship, if one spemds their time thinking of God, there is less time to worry how everyone is worshipping and less competition.

 

I am not advocating not to follow rituals, God created the Vedas and Homas and Puja and Abishekams so that we could have a disciplined structured wasy of coming together, or by overselves knowing we are truly communicating. Temples are important, pundits are important, your own personally shine is important. But what is supreme is your own personally worship to God.

 

Let them person wear a tilak, its better than him/her lost drinking at a bar.

[Guest guest]

"Even criminals who worship me will soon find their way to me and I will accept them"

 

so who worships krsna is allright.. who despise krsna is in fault.. who shows a sign of offense to krsna... is a sinner

 

where's the problem?

[kirstan]

"Where's the problem?"

 

The question dealt with whether wearing a tilak was impersonation and an offense, it is not nor ever can be -- even if one puts on a tilak in hating God or as fraud, God accepts this as worship. Because no matter what one thinks when they put on the tilak, they know the tilak is a rite of God. And they think of God when they apply it. It's a prayer.

 

There was a demon who hated God with every breath, but when this demon died he was liberated immediately, why? Because he spent his whole life thinking of God -- even though it was hateful, he was still concentrating on God.

 

Futhermore, it is only By God's Grace, namely Sri Durga Devi, that one is supplied with the inspiration to worship or not to worship God. Not to worship God and to "commit" sins are supplied as well. Nothing happens without God's will.

 

In the Ramayana, It is A Lady Maid Servant of one of the wives of Sri Lord Rama's Father, that puts the idea in Sri Rama's mother to ask that another son be placed on the throne instead Sri Rama and to exile Him. This maid servant and the mother were commanded by Sri Lord Siva to take up form and to commit these "sins". Had theses sins not been done, Sri Lord Rama's lila could not come to pass. All the trees, cows birds, people received darshan while Sri Lord Rama's was in exile because of these "sins"and Sri Lord Hanuman would never have been able to display His Great Devotion without the conflict with Ravana.

 

God finds nothing offensive because God is unoffendable.

These are all his lilas. It is God alone who eventually determines when were are ready to worship Him. Not worshipping God means we keep His Interactive Grace

out of our lives in a direct way, but the fact that one breathes means that God has graced that one.

 

The point of "Even criminals" in your reply missed the point I was making, the coversation dealt with "Tilak wearing being offensive or fake" The point I was making was that God accepts all acts of worship and that God looks at the intent, not the trappings or gossipping of what humans think or think they are seeing another worshipper is doing and as to whether it is true worship or fake. I refered to criminals because they are like the person who seems to be impersonating by wearing a tilak who must start somewhere in their worship, and that God accepts that start immediately!

 

"If you take one step towards God, God takes nine to you"

 

AS far as not worshipping Sri Lord Krishna, "being a sin",

I leave all that to Sri Lord Krishna to figure out. The fact that one has Life and that Everything is made and comes from Brahman -- is enough for me to know that God is behind everything, even the "sinner". And if God is behind it, it may be a "sin" to our eyes or maybe even to God's eyes -- is it still a sin caused by God? regardless the Lila must happen and all lilas and creation come from and are sustained by God

 

Om Shanti

The above is my opiniion only.

In service of God, Guru, and the Lotus Children

 

[Guest guest]

Different types of tilaka markings denote the different sects of Vaisnavism, namely the impersonalists and the personalists. Gaudiya Vaisnava tilaka appears as two straight and perpendicular vertical lines on the forehead that meet between the eyes. Tilaka marks are ornamented in various ways. Sometimes white or yellow clay is used for marking the outer lines, and turmeric or red sricurna powder mark the central line. Curved tilaka is not to be worn Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Gaudiya Vaisnava tilaka is also known as udra pundra, or Visnu temple, which distinguishes the personalist Vaisnavas from the mayavadis, who use the three parallel lines, tripundra.

 

Members of the Kumara Sampradaya place on the forehead two vertical lines of white clay (gopichandana) with a central black spot. For members of the Laksmi Sampradaya, the representation of Namam on the Vaisnava's forehead is known as Thirumann, which means the sacred earth (dust). Namam consists of three vertical lines joined at the base, the two outer white lines signifying the worship of Brahama and Vishnu and the red centerline signifying the worship Mahalakshi. The Saivite tilaka has three pundra, or lines, on the forehead.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada, "The Padma Purana also states that wearing urdhva-pundra is a mandatory prerequisite for performing yajna, charity, austerity, Vedic study, sandhya rites (such as chanting Gayatri japa), or indeed any spiritual activity. A person without urdhva-pundra is no better than a dead man, and one who wears horizontal marks -- in this way breaking the Visnu temple in the form of the vertical lines of urdhva-pundra -- goes to hell. The Padma Purana recommends that whoever sees such a person should perform some kind of purification, such as looking at the sun or even bathing in a river or pond with his clothes on."

 

Most of the devotees on this forum are Gaudiya Vaisnavas and follow the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. Kirstan, your speculations and made-up instructions on tilak are dangerous and carry no weight.

 

Tinges of mayavadi me thinks.

 

[Guest guest]

The Hari-bhakti-vilasa mentions that the urdhva-pundra may vary in shape, color, and material according to a devotee's sampradaya, but other features are shared. It should not be crooked, uneven, uncentered, dirty, or bad-smelling. On the forehead, the center portion between the two lines should be open from the eyebrows to the hair line, but should be joined at the bottom. The solid portion may extend three quarters of the way down the nose. Lord Visnu is said to reside in the central portion, while Brahma resides on the left and Siva on the right.

 

[kirstan]

The three white lines of Sri Lord Siva represent triune forces such as Creation-Preservation-Destruction, the Past-Present-Future, Begining-Middle-End -- like the Three Points in His and Sri Durga's Trident.

The Bindu -- represents the place where The Divine mother is asked to seat Herself on Her Lotus. The Bindu represents the Beggining point of manifestation of the Sri Chakra - the Universe

 

Vibhuti -- Sacred ashe, all things come from dust, the ashe is what is left over after fire burns an object, the building blocks of all creation are in that dust, hence primodial dust -- this dust emerge from the begining of the universe. Sri Lord Siva covers Himself in the dust of cementarys because He dissolves everything and then creates it again with this dust. Fire purifys and in Homas, Sacred Homa Fires are the Mouth Of God, so the ashe is the Prasad that God returns to us after our offerings are received by Him in Fire of Homas.

Sandalwoodpaste -- is said to have properties to withdraw disease from the body and to cool it when one has been doing intense meditations, anusthans, or tapas.

 

Kumkum - In the Lalita Sahasranama - In the Dhyana , It is the Divine Mother Herself who is the First ever to wear Kumkum- Vermillion powder on Her Ajna Chakra/ Thrid Eye. Kumkum, made from tumeric, is said to have many subtle qualites. It is in Her honor and Her Grace we are inspired to wear it.

 

The wearing of Vibhuti and Sandalwood Paste and Kumkum, in whatever Tilak you wear, protects the Ajna/Third Eye and invites the Deity to rests there. It also stimulates the Ajna Chakra/ Third Eye for spiritual awareness and meditation. Also, you are consecrating that all of your thoughts that you think or receive from others, your mind, your intellect, and spiritual subtle bodies to the Lotus Feet of God.

 

Divine Mother Herself, rests in Bindhu in the Kumkum and comes to protect Her Devotees immediately.

Wearing the Tilak is a form of worship and a tremendous auspicious rite to do very day.

There is no doubt about this.

 

It is highly suggested to wear the complete bindhu, tilak, or either one of the vibhuti, sandalwoodpaste, or kumkum

everyday.

 

 

I have recollected most of this from readings I found at Amritapuri Asham in Kerala, www.amritapuri.org, Sri Amritanandamayi; and from Sri Gayatri Vol 1 & 2 from www.karunamayi.org, Sri Karunamayi --

Incarnations of the Divine Mother.

 

In service of God, Guru, and the Lotus Children

[Guest guest]

So what you say is that if we wear tilak we can run around and do anything we want and not pay the price for our folly. heee hawwww partytime

 

Reminds me of number seven of the offenses to the holy names.

 

7) To commit sinful activities on the strength of chanting the holy name of the Lord.

 

 

[kirstan]

Sita Ram,

 

(see my two previous kirstan posts in this section)

 

In reference to where I got the above previous information on Tilak, Bindhu, Homas and Abhishekams there is also, Sri Anandi Ma of www.dyc.org.

 

I should mentioned also that Shaktipat Initiation is offered by Sri Anandi Ma to those interested. This Lineage began when Sri Guru Vashista gave Shaktipat to Sri Lord Ram who then gave Shaktipat to Sri Mata Sita who then gave Shaktipat to Sri Lord Hanuman who then gave it to Those who became Gurus for this Lineage who made Sri Ananda Ma the present day Heir. Check out the web site for details.

 

I should also mention that Sri Amritanandamayi offers Mantra Initiation during "Devi Bhava Programs" when She travels in the U.S. www.amritapuri.org or www.ammachi.org

 

Sri Karunamayi this year 2004 gave initiation in the Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra to those who attended Her programs in the U.S. and last year 0f 2003 she gave initiation in the Gayatri Mantra. She also teaches the Sri Chakra Abishekam.

www.karunamayi.org

 

Om Namah Sivaya

By the Grace of God and In service of God, Guru, and the Lotus Children

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

I was talking about the philosophical position of those who normally put the three lined tilak which opposes the principles of devotion. Anyone can do anything as service and still please the Lord if done in pure devotion, which is another matter. Even entering the arena of bhakti is not easy, what to speak of pure devotion, then the only way is to follow the recommendations of acharyas.

 

 

God finds nothing offensive because God is unoffendable.

 

 

 

Who would think that God is offended; its our own devotional creeper that suffers as a result of offences. As you said, the intent is what matters, and so if we imagine ourselves to be on the same platform as the Supreme Lord then naturally all He will do is ignore us so that we may go ahead with our imagined reality independently.

 

 

I leave all that to Sri Lord Krishna to figure out. The fact that one has Life and that Everything is made and comes from Brahman -- is enough for me to know that God is behind everything, even the "sinner". And if God is behind it, it may be a "sin" to our eyes or maybe even to God's eyes -- is it still a sin caused by God? regardless the Lila must happen and all lilas and creation come from and are sustained by God

 

 

 

what is this, why do you try to pass your own responsibility as God's lila or whatever. That everything is Brahman and comes from the Supreme Brahman only speaks about the nature, and not of the (limited) freedom of action of individual jivas and the responsibilities arising thereof. God may be said to be "behind" only in the sense of aiding to fulfil the desire of the jiva (whether appropriate or inappropriate), nowhere close to having any tinge of responsibility. "Sinning" in the material realm may atmost mean suffering the consequences materially only, but "sinning" in our spiritual practise may make us unfit to receive devotion towards the Lord. There seems to be some confusion, or lack of differentiation between apparent "sins" on the spiritual platform and "sins" on the material platform. The behaviour in Sri Rama's avataar, as you described, is strictly reserved for the eternal associates of the Lord or other liberated souls on the spiritual platform (or others by orders of such personalities) and has no relevance to the suffering jiva shackled in the maya energy.

 

Thanks for explaining the meaning of the three lines and the links. But, the essential point is that when one wears the three lined tilak, he/she is normally understood to be having allegience to a philosophy which is opposed to the culture of bhakti. But you seem to have a completely different notion of bhakti.

[kirstan]

Sita Ram,

 

Thanks for some of the insights.

 

Regarding not taking responsiblity, that point was indicative of the universe, not of not taking responsibility for oneself, because ultimately Brahma is taking care of the universe -- if my scripture is recollected properly, Krishna encourages Arjuna to do what is right, and to fight evil with good. And I take that position. But for whatever reason, whether a jiva or ant, we move in Brahma and therefore nothing happens without Brahma -- these are my opinions as I am not enlighted, otherwise I would not be writing this. For me to just know that Brahma is there causes me to aspire and then to know maya is Brahma's will and therefore maya has its job then, and to do my best to worship.

 

And right now, I have too much responsibility!

I found your desciption of "sin" very insightful. Thanks.

 

OM Namah Sivaya!

 

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

please accept my dandavat pranam

 

Actually i am also in a position as yourself, trying to make head and tail of the vast knowledge concerning the spiritual. The description of "sin" is what little i learnt from the words of the acharyas. May i suggest you to read some books by Srila BhaktiVedanta Swami Prabhupada which explain these things beautifully and logically. I found this small book "Perfect Questions and Perfect Answers" http://www.hare-krishna.org/books/perfectanswers.zip really helpful. Other books are available for download here

http://www.hare-krishna.org/srila-prabhupada-books.htm (the Bhagavad Gita as it is, is a must of course; you will have to install the fonts available there first)

[kirstan]

Sita Ram,

 

By God's Grace, I accept your Blessings and May God Grace You and Yours.

 

 

I have started to read "Perfect Questions" from your link suggestions, and the "Bhagavad Gita".

 

It is obvious to Me that this is the information/teaching that Sri Lord Krishna has sent to Me via You.

 

I thank Sri Lord Krisha for this Grace, and I thank You for being the Ambassador of His Grace.

 

 

Om Namah Sivaya!

[Guest guest]

Here, I would like to ask a question friends! While taking birth, we don't have any Tilak on our Forehead and after that, why we need them? If we put then only God recognize us like his devotee, otherwise not? Is it agreeable to all of you? God can't see inside of us? He will see only outside body? What do you think?

I think, we would like to follow the God like a devotee, so we keep a mark on our face(in the mirror) when we see that on our forehead we should remember that we are the devotee to him. Or otherwise, if someone sees us with Tilak on forehead he/she can recognise us as a Vishnava devotee or Shiva devotee. Sometimes, in this busy world, this could be happend when we forget we are a devotee of God then, someone sees and asks are you Vishnava devotee? or Siva devotee? I think that is only reason to have Tilak. Are you agree with me or not please...explain....

God bless us all