What happens to the critic?He takes upon himself the karma load of sins !

[krsna]

Although most persons generally do not appreciate others’ criticism of them, the Vedic literatures say

that tolerating and forgiving our critics is beneficial.

 

Forgiving our critics is a course recommended in the Bible, the Koran and other religious traditions. Yet, what happens to the critic? The English writer and philosopher Aldous Huxley has described:

 

"The effects that follow the constant and intense con-centration upon evil are always disastrous. Those who crusade, not for God in themselves, but against the demons in others, never succeed in making the world better.... No man can concentrate his attention on evil, or even the idea of evil, and remain unaffected. To be more against the demon than for godliness is exceedingly dangerous. Every crusader is apt to go mad. He is haunted by the wickedness that he attributes to his enemies; it becomes sort of a part of him."

 

The following are some verses describing the Vedic teachings on this point:

 

 

Whoever indulges in praising or criticizing the qualities and behavior of others will quickly become deviated from his own best interest by his entanglement in illusory du-alities.

 

(Krishna to Uddhava. Bhag. 11.28.2)

 

 

Throughout his life, a brahmana should consider material prestige to be like poison and dishonor to be like nectar. After all, if one learns to tolerate dishonor, then his agitation will subside and he will happily sleep, happily wake, and happily move about. The person who insults him will, because of his sin, become regretful, and his happiness in this and the next life will be vanquished.

 

(Manu-samhita 2.162-163. Quoted by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur in Brahmana O Vaisnava.)

 

 

The ignorant seek to injure the wise by malice and back-biting; by doing so the critic takes upon himself the load of the wise man’s sins, which he, the wise man, casts off by forgiving the ignorant.

 

Vidura to Dhritarastra. (Mahabharata, udyoga parva 34.74)

 

 

A person being criticized should not criticize in retaliation, for the pain felt upon receiving criticism, if endured, will itself consume the critic and bring in exchange the results of his good deeds.

 

(Dattatreya to the Saddhyas. Mahabharata, udyoga parva 36.5)

 

One who remains tolerant, not becoming angry, certainly attains the abuser’s pious credits. Indeed his own sins are transferred to that wrathful person.

 

(Bhishma to Yudhisthira. Mahabharata Santi-parva 115.3)

 

 

A person who praises someone in his presence, but criticizes him behind his back, is no better than a dog. His chances for elevation to higher planets are completely spoiled in this world.

 

(Bhishma to Yudhisthira. Mahabharata, Santi parva 115.11)

 

[Guest guest]

hey, these are good quotes thanks. We should all think about these when we feel we want to retaliate to criticism. I just thought I'd give this topic a little bump since I was using the quotes in writing a letter, and saw that this hadn't been replied to.

 

thanks, Krsna!

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Nice thread!

[krsna]

The nobler sort of man emphasizes the good qualities in others, and

does not accentuate the bad. The inferior does the reverse.

-- Confucius (551-479 BC) Chinese Philosopher

[Kulapavana]

it would be nice if we actually practiced what we preach when it comes to criticism of others

[krsna]

 

it would be nice if we actually practiced what we preach when it comes to criticism of others

 

Vaisnavas Criticize

 

 

BY: DHIRA GOVINDA DASA

 

 

 

May 20, ALACHUA, FLORIDA (SUN) — I believe it's a fairly common misconception that "Vaisnavas don't criticize." Let us consider some exalted Vaisnavas at the topmost platform of devotional service, such as Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Can we say that they never criticized? No. Actually, they criticized quite a bit.

 

The sastric injunction, and philosophical truth, as I understand it, is that Vaisnavas are devoid of the propensity to criticize. In material consciousness we possess a propensity to criticize others, to put them down, so that, in some corrupted way we feel better about ourselves. A Vaisnava is free from this propensity.

 

A Vaisnava is also conscientious to not commit offenses, to other devotees or to any living entity. So, a Vaisnava is careful not to commit offenses, and is liberated from the propensity to criticize others. Simultaneously a Vaisnava does not deny his perceptions.

 

Being free from the propensity to criticize and fully conscious of his perceptions, and conversant and realized in sastra, a Vaisnava may choose to offer compassionate, constructive criticism.

It is important that we don't allow the conception that "Vaisnavas don't criticize" to prevent us from recognizing our perceptions and sharing them appropriately. Srila Prabhupada's teachings, as I understand them, are that if something is wrong and we don't speak up about it, then we are complicit in the transgression. Of course, if we determine that it is our service to express ourselves about an apparent misconception or wrongdoing, then it is important that our expression is Vaisnava-like and gentlemanly/gentlewomanly. A Vaisnava is bold, yet considerate.

[Madhavananda Das BBSR]

Dear Krsna,

Please accept my humble obeisances. Jaya Sri Sri Guru Gauranga!

 

I'm pleased that you liked our article, "Critics take the Karma", that we wrote and printed in issue 92 of our magazine Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu. I'm also happy to see such an important topic being discussed on this forum by the saintly Vaishnavas. However, it's not very nice to take something and post it like it is coming from you, without giving the reference, in this case our magazine.

 

This, I'm sure innocent post, by you has caused a chain reaction of confusing posts on other sites. The result of which has wasted some of our time and caused us inconvenience. Please give reference to your sources in the future, it's a much more high class kind of behavior. Although we didn't give our name when we printed that article, at least you could have cited the issue of Bindu that you took it from. I would appreciate your support of our humble service.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Vaishnava kripa prarthi,

Madhavananda Das

[Sridas]

Yes next to "Chant and be happy"

 

This is the most important advice for a devotee to take to their heart.

For if the stench of fault finding or aparadhe continues to pervade the aspirants heart then the Holy name and form proper will not reside in such a heart.

 

We have enough dust on our conditioned consciousness over the duration of many births already, so let us not sabatage our own good fortune in coming into contact with this grace from Sri Guru and Gauranga, by taking the ten offences of chanting the Names of God lightly.

 

Many may call to God- few are called by God. But if we please the Lord with our attitude of loving honor we may actually hear Him chanting our Name. And a lot more joyous exchange.

Think about it.

[suchandra]

 

hey, these are good quotes thanks. We should all think about these when we feel we want to retaliate to criticism. I just thought I'd give this topic a little bump since I was using the quotes in writing a letter, and saw that this hadn't been replied to. thanks, Krsna!

 

Then the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna criticized Arjuna, "Although you speak like a learned person Arjuna, basically you are grieving for something that is not worthy of grief. You are speaking as if death is real, but the fact is that the living being never dies. There was never a time when all the souls before you did not exist. As we are living now, we have always lived and shall always live. We pass through bodies and it is only the body that appears to grow from childhood and eventually to death and old age. A really learned person doesn't grieve for this transformation of the body and it's eventual inevitable death because the really learned person knows that the living being lives beyond the death of the body. It is only the sensations of the senses that makes one feel that pain and pleasure are going on. The wise person just endures such transformations, knowing themselves to be eternal. A wise person is not disturbed by all the changes of our sensual perception. Such a person is eligible for liberation to the spiritual world. The soul does not transform, only the body does. Therefore, you should try to see the difference between these two, just like the real sages. No one can kill the soul. Only physical bodies can be killed. So Arjuna, your religious duty of fighting this religious war should not be abandoned. If you think a person can be killed or that you are the killer of a person, both of these ideas are wrong. The soul is never born, nor does it ever die."

[theist]

Yes but remember right before Krsna spoke those words to Arjuna, Arjuna spoke these words to Krsna:

BG 2.7: Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me for certain what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

 

 

 

I believe this is an important point. We can't just assume we are someone's siksa guru and blast away under the pretense of speaking the "straight forward truth for the benefit of that soul."

 

 

 

First Arjuna approached Krsna and accepted Him as Guru then the Guru did His duty of speaking the straight forward truth for the benefit of His disciple.

[Sephiroth]

Hmph ... Is that the excuse Hindus in India kept telling themselves after Mumbai bomb incident? That criticising "evil" will make them evil as well?

 

I guess if goats waits to be slaughtered, they do nothing but to eat and be merry, waiting for their butcher to come and slitther their throats.

[suchandra]

 

Hmph ... Is that the excuse Hindus in India kept telling themselves after Mumbai bomb incident? That criticising "evil" will make them evil as well?

 

I guess if goats waits to be slaughtered, they do nothing but to eat and be merry, waiting for their butcher to come and slitther their throats.

 

Srila Prabhupada's once stated that the definition of GBC is, responsible for the spiritual and material well-being of the Vaishnavas entrusted in their care.

As Gaurav Mittal states below, there has to be a clear understanding of what is useless criticism and what it useful criticism and not be unqualified to discriminate between the two.

 

 

Is Inflicting Suffering on Devotees a Vaishnava Aparadha?

 

BY: GAURAV MITTAL

 

 

 

Sep 13,

Criticizing devotees is considered Vaishnava aparadha. Such aparadhas are extremely dangerous for a perpetrator’s devotion. I have heard about this Vaishnava aparadha in many lectures and it has been used by devotees to stop their criticisms. Criticisms or insults sometimes hurt the victim devotees emotionally or humiliate them. Many advanced Vaishnavas are equanimous in praise or criticism and ignore them. Still, Krishna does not tolerate criticisms.

 

 

If verbal attacks towards devotees are not tolerated by Krishna then can Krishna tolerate physical atrocities, abuses or injuries towards devotees? How does Krishna react to the perpetrator of physical or sexual abuses? Physical or sexual abuse injures a devotee much more than any form of verbal criticism. So, I am very confident that such Vaishnava aparadhis completely destroy their devotion.

 

 

SB 10.2.22 and SB 12.2.41 clearly state that such persons who inflict suffering on others will go to hell. We can also easily understand that the devotion of those people who inflict miseries on devotees is also destroyed. Those people who support the evil acts of inflicting suffering on devotees will also suffer similar reactions.

 

I keep on wondering why the leaders in ISKCON have not understood this simple concept. How was Dhanurdhara a guru for so many years, even though he inflicted a tremendous amount of suffering on innocent young Vaishnavas? Why are many others still there? Does ISKCON leadership accept that making leaders out of those who inflict suffering on devotees is a mistake?

 

 

[Sephiroth]

by suchandra

 

Srila Prabhupada's once stated that the definition of GBC is, responsible for the spiritual and material well-being of the Vaishnavas entrusted in their care.

As Gaurav Mittal states below, there has to be a clear understanding of what is useless criticism and what it useful criticism and not be unqualified to discriminate between the two.

 

Your Srila Prabhupada dealt with terrorists before? What's his saying about them?

 

The Mumbai bomb managed to scrap Mumbai but no permanent damage like Sept 11. So don't expect things to get better. Next WILL be "Dirty bombs" which will effect the victims for generations to come.

 

Then we will see whether Secular Hindus in India are Sheeps waiting to be slaughtered or not.

[suchandra]

 

by suchandra

 

Srila Prabhupada's once stated that the definition of GBC is, responsible for the spiritual and material well-being of the Vaishnavas entrusted in their care.

 

As Gaurav Mittal states below, there has to be a clear understanding of what is useless criticism and what it useful criticism and not be unqualified to discriminate between the two.

 

Your Srila Prabhupada dealt with terrorists before? What's his saying about them?

 

The Mumbai bomb managed to scrap Mumbai but no permanent damage like Sept 11. So don't expect things to get better. Next WILL be "Dirty bombs" which will effect the victims for generations to come.

 

Then we will see whether Secular Hindus in India are Sheeps waiting to be slaughtered or not.

Just like God is one - the representative of God, guru or spiritual master is also one, there's no such thing as your guru and my guru, guru is an universal principle, when you get that straight? When Srila Prabhupada dealt with what you call terrorists, they didnt were terrorist. Just like your kids, if you have, let's say they later on become entangled in criminal activity you wont blame their school teacher, right? Does the court convict a school teacher when a grown up person later gets involved in breaking the law? That's pretty unheard, please enlighten me further!

[Sephiroth]

 

Just like God is one - the representative of God, guru or spiritual master is also one, there's no such thing as your guru and my guru, guru is an universal principle, when you get that straight? When Srila Prabhupada dealt with what you call terrorists, they didnt were terrorist. Just like your kids, if you have, let's say they later on become entangled in criminal activity you wont blame their school teacher, right? Does the court convict a school teacher when a grown up person later gets involved in breaking the law? That's pretty unheard, please enlighten me further!

 

Sorry ... my God didn't teach me to follow other gurus or any representative. My relationship with my God in one-to-One. I don't need any gurus to be my prophet to guide me. Thank you.

 

And you have not answered my question - WHAT did Srila Prabhupada said on how to deal with Terrorists?

 

And equalizing Terrorists with kids in school who misbehave IS IDIOTIC EXAMPLE. What sort of fool do you take me for?

 

Even in Schools, IF a child misbehaves, the first task of the teacher is consult the student. If the same thing happens, call and consult the parents of the student so they could help control and educate their children. IF still failed, the student will be punished by giving a few weeks of probabation. And when all this disciplinary actions fails, then the student will be rejected out as failure so s/he will not disturb other students from studying.

[Bhakta Harry]

 

Although most persons generally do not appreciate others’ criticism of them, the Vedic literatures say

that tolerating and forgiving our critics is beneficial.

 

Forgiving our critics is a course recommended in the Bible, the Koran and other religious traditions. Yet, what happens to the critic? The English writer and philosopher Aldous Huxley has described:

 

"The effects that follow the constant and intense con-centration upon evil are always disastrous. Those who crusade, not for God in themselves, but against the demons in others, never succeed in making the world better.... No man can concentrate his attention on evil, or even the idea of evil, and remain unaffected. To be more against the demon than for godliness is exceedingly dangerous. Every crusader is apt to go mad. He is haunted by the wickedness that he attributes to his enemies; it becomes sort of a part of him."

 

The following are some verses describing the Vedic teachings on this point:

 

 

Whoever indulges in praising or criticizing the qualities and behavior of others will quickly become deviated from his own best interest by his entanglement in illusory du-alities.

 

(Krishna to Uddhava. Bhag. 11.28.2)

 

 

Throughout his life, a brahmana should consider material prestige to be like poison and dishonor to be like nectar. After all, if one learns to tolerate dishonor, then his agitation will subside and he will happily sleep, happily wake, and happily move about. The person who insults him will, because of his sin, become regretful, and his happiness in this and the next life will be vanquished.

 

(Manu-samhita 2.162-163. Quoted by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur in Brahmana O Vaisnava.)

 

 

The ignorant seek to injure the wise by malice and back-biting; by doing so the critic takes upon himself the load of the wise man’s sins, which he, the wise man, casts off by forgiving the ignorant.

 

Vidura to Dhritarastra. (Mahabharata, udyoga parva 34.74)

 

 

A person being criticized should not criticize in retaliation, for the pain felt upon receiving criticism, if endured, will itself consume the critic and bring in exchange the results of his good deeds.

 

(Dattatreya to the Saddhyas. Mahabharata, udyoga parva 36.5)

 

One who remains tolerant, not becoming angry, certainly attains the abuser’s pious credits. Indeed his own sins are transferred to that wrathful person.

 

(Bhishma to Yudhisthira. Mahabharata Santi-parva 115.3)

 

 

A person who praises someone in his presence, but criticizes him behind his back, is no better than a dog. His chances for elevation to higher planets are completely spoiled in this world.

 

(Bhishma to Yudhisthira. Mahabharata, Santi parva 115.11)

 

 

Criticism and back-biting were also present in Greek culture. Plato is quoted as follows

 

 

When men speak ill of thee, live so as nobody may believe them.

Plato

 

 

[krsna]

[

QUOTE] Quote:

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When men speak ill of thee, live so as nobody may believe them.

Plato

 

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