Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 The Vaishnava philosophy is derived from vedic thought, but the followers of the philosophy are more similar to muslims than they are to hindus. It is obvious. Vaishnavas and Muslims believe in one god, one book, one prophet, one way. They hate polytheism, ridicule every other system of thought, and throughout history, have indulged in 'holy wars' against infidels. And whenever they are faced with fierce opposition, they form tactical alliances to defeat the infidels. All in all, it is clear that they have a common aim: to semitize the world, according to their monotheistic principles. And they will do whatever it takes-defame infidels, occupy their lands, forcible conversions-to make it happen. It is really amazing that Vaishanvas and Muslims have so much in common. No wonder, most vaishanvas secretly sympathize with 9/11 hijackers. The question is why. And also, when did this relationship exactly flower? Superman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Whatever you're smokin', can I have sum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 you can find a better blend then what he has in his pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 There is one clear difference amongst (some) of your proposed similarities: HKs are comfortable with their religion, faithful and do not feel insecure. The fact that their are so many Holy Wars in Islam is a direct reflection of the fact that they (muslims) feel insecure in this world. "They hate polytheism, ridicule every other system of thought, and throughout history, have indulged in 'holy wars' against infidels." Yes, there are Holy wars spoken of in Vedic literature - but nothing that even resembles the basis of current Jihaad or Fatwaa. War was conducted differently in the Vedic literature - warriors fight warriors. No civilians are killed. Women, children and the elderly and decrepid are protected. There are also many holy scriputre Vaishanavas will abide by. "It is obvious. Vaishnavas and Muslims believe in one god, one book, one prophet, one way. " If you are not a Vaishnava then you are probably follwing in the line of Advaitya - which also believes there is one God, not many - tho there are many philosophical differences. So, no - Vaishnavism is closer to Hinduism. "they have a common aim: to semitize the world, according to their monotheistic principles" Despite what the Guest thinks, Vaishnavas are not on a quest to make the whole world one religion - that is left for God to do. There is no forced conversion, as in Islam, and there is no propoganda. (although some will argue the contrary - depends on your perspective.) "No wonder, most vaishanvas secretly sympathize with 9/11 hijackers" Some might - most won't. You can see both sides of the story. But as i said, there are rules of war - do not kill innocents. How can one sympathesize with such an act then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 "The Vaishnava philosophy is derived from vedic thought, but the followers of the philosophy are more similar to muslims than they are to hindus. It is obvious. " another discussion is if hinduism is really connected with vedic thought.. hinduism is not the parameter, vedas, upanishad, itihasas, puranas are the parameter.. so judge vaishnavism with the gita, the mahabharata, ramayana, upanishad and so on... not with hinduism (what's really hinduism?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 What Guest above has said is true in my opinion. I think we would better understand that religion, be it muslim or hindu or christianity, if properly followed, will lead us to come together, instead of grouping ourselves into different sects. Secondly, you might(or might not) have a so called "muslim" identity in this birth. Why? Because apparently you took birth in a geographic location of the world which follows a particular road towards the Absolute, which in your case, appears to be muslim. Also, your parents and surroundings influenced you in the way you approach the absolute, which I guess, through the faith of Islam. But possibly in your next birth, your consciousness will come in touch with another roadway towards the Absolute. Thus, your new surroundings will influence you in a new way according to the faith of the geographic location that you take birth in your next birth. The "Hare Krsna" movement is NOT a sectarean group, although as human beings prone to many many faults, we come to think of it as such. But those who are actually following the Vedas, they do not distinguish between muslim and hindu nor christian and jew. For those who are followers of the Vedas, they know that one may proclaim his body and mind to be muslim and in his next birth something else, be it human species or some other species. Finally, the bewilderment that you are in is not only affecting you, but also many others, even myself. Once we can view things from proper perspective, then we will all agree. Note that you, Superman, and I, are both under the control of a subtle form of energy which is pervading throughout this universe. This energy, which is called Maya in the Vedas, is very intoxicating and causes this bewilderment. I hope you can pray to Allah, and I will pray to Sri Krsna, so that we can understand each other, and everyone else from the right viewpoint, without me considering myself a Vaisnava, or you considering yourself a Muslim, but each of us considering ourselves as living entities endowed with consciousness and servant of that one Absolute. Nitai Gaura Haribol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 "MUSLIM" defines as one who accepts the Authority of the Supreme Lord, with full love and affection, and in a full spirit of surrendered devotion. This definition cannot be denied because of sectarian feelings. Definitions are intact despite interpretation of definition. Just as "ISRAEL" defines as the confidential consort, wife of the Supreme Lord, muslim is a complete definition of Vaisnava sentiment. Many who call themselves muslim are just burdens to society, and no different from christians and israels who have no symptoms of love of God. Such materialistic appellations have no value, and are just as the story of Paundraka, pretenders without validity. Because of the misrepresentation of certain special words, like christian, muslim, israel, or vaisnava, one must assume that REAL representations of these words are extremely rare. In other words, there are NOT 6,000,000 Vaisnavas in the worls. There are not 600,000,000 muslims in the world, there are not 400,000,000 christians in the world, and there are not 20,000,000 Israels in the world. If there were 100 of each of these groups, the entire world would be quite a different place. A true Muslim would never even verbally criticize a true Vaisnava, because a true muslim would recognize that the true Vaisnava was completely devoted to whom he gives his heart to. A true christian would recognize Allah and Krsna as the Father that Lord Jesus teaches as the one who has sent Him. A true Muslim would never vilify Israel, because the wife of the Supreme Lord is eternally connected to Him. So, a true muslim is a status that vaisnavas aspire for. Vaisnavas have nothing to do with false muslims, true muslims have nothing to do with kali cela, those who pose as lovers of God but have only hate for others who may not have had the fortune of the descending spiritual advancement. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, It is obvious. Vaishnavas and Muslims believe in one god, one book, one prophet, one way. Vsihnavas do believe in one GOD and Oneness of GOD. One book ? No several, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita, Puranas (Bhagavatha Purana in particular), Pancaratra, so many more. One prophet ? I do not think you are a Hindu. If you are you would not give such an erroneous statement. I suspect that you are an advaiti or christian. As for your question, there are many Gurus. One way. Yes only through Bhakthi. All other ways attain their purpose is fulfilling and creating Bhakthi(Devotion). They hate polytheism, ridicule every other system of thought, and throughout history, have indulged in 'holy wars' against infidels. And whenever they are faced with fierce opposition, they form tactical alliances to defeat the infidels. Infidel: There is no concept of infidel equivalent to islamic tradition in Vaishnavism. Jihad: Vaishnavism does not teach or ask their devotees to go on war and kill infidels. There is no teaching like jihad etc. anywhere in Vedas or Gita. Instead what Gita teaches is that the duties of a king, soldiers and rulers of a country. How these duties are to be performed keeping a clear spiritual objective. When a society is overcome by evil rulers, what to do. Here "evil rulers" imply those that act with selfishness, unethically, immorally harming innocent people, women, children, men and even animals etc. Ins short Bhagavad Gita gives instructins for individuals and society to act responsibly in material and spiritual sphere. It does not deal or even mention about different belief systems or believers outside of Vedic System. All in all, it is clear that they have a common aim: to semitize the world, according to their monotheistic principles. And they will do whatever it takes-defame infidels, occupy their lands, forcible conversions-to make it happen. It is really amazing that Vaishanvas and Muslims have so much in common. No wonder, most vaishanvas secretly sympathize with 9/11 hijackers. Please mention one incident from history where Vaishnavas indulged in war with non-vaishnavas or any kind of terrorist incident. The question is why. And also, when did this relationship exactly flower? Superman Your question is illegitimate as you are asking about non-existing things. You name must be superdull, not superman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Kryptonite !!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 NO Vaishnavaas are not muslims. but a muslim can be a vaishnava if he follows the religious principle by being monogamous (If married) or celebate if unmarried, Pure vegetarian in food habits, no intoxication and remain as a good human and above all dedicated to Lord in devotional service. IN the same way, even a christian can be a Vaishnava by following the above and any person of any religion can be a vaishnava. Raghavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 about how the word "muslim" is defined. If one interprets muslim as a church, then the same person may think of vaisnavaism as a sect. In that definition, even vaisnavas are not vaisnavas. But with acxcurate definition, a christian (actual follower of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ) is Vaisnava, a muslim, translated as lover of the Supreme Lord, is a vaisnava, and vaisnavas are both christians, muslims, and may even be referreed in the advanced stage as Israel "wife of God". hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa PS i think they be missin my point, eh, gHari, happy holidays to you, Im gonna study KoG over christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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