got milk?

[theist]

You are speaking as if refraining from killing animals can just be seen as the absence of sin, but also the abscence of positive Krsna conscious practice. An obstacle to be removed only.

 

I don't. I believe it can be just that but that it also can be an offering unto the Lord in and of itself. You know we are not really dealing with a cow or calf. There is also the atma and the Paramatma that inhabit that cow form.

 

I believe that is we try to learn to act towards all living enties in a compassionate way that may also be viewed by some as a good example.

 

I am not challenging the drinking of milk, I am challenging the drinking of commercial milk devoid of cow protection. Do you see the distinction?

 

You seem concerned about the word hypocrite. Everyone I know is to some degree a hypocrite, definetly including myself. But we have to work on it.

 

Perhaps you could give me a better word for someone who preaches cow protection while himself killing cows everyday. If you don't preach cow protection and kill cows then you would not be a hypocrite. You couls say we feel that supporting the torture, enslavement and slaughter of cows and calves is bad but because we offer the milk to Krsna it is really better for them in the long run. That would not be hypocrisy.

 

Of course this also sounds like the argument that justified stealing from people while selling books. ajnata sukriti so stealing from people was really the devotees being merciful. I am not convinced of this approach.

[theist]

 

Priyavrata:

 

 

So having said that, some may be wondering why I (a practicing Hindu) decided to go vegan. Well, it is partly the same reason as most vegans: I am vehemently against the viscous and cruel commercial dairy industry that exploits cows. It is certainly hypocritical for any Hindu to support it. On the other hand, I do not have a problem with people who love and care for a cow at home or on a farm and who accept the excess milk the cow offers with love. (By the way, it is not completely true that a cow must be in calf to produce milk. This is another generalization bandied about in the vegan movement. There are many examples to the contrary, including one cow at the Hare Krishna Bhaktivedanta Manor in England that has been giving milk 9 years after calf!!! How is that possible? The cow feels loved and she offers her milk with love).

 

So in that sense I am a "conditional vegan." A new kind of Hindu, that will only accept milk from loved and protected cows and from those that are not slaughtered, as are the cows at the organic dairies (another hypocrisy of the modern day).

 

 

[vijay]

"I am not challenging the drinking of milk, I am challenging the drinking of commercial milk devoid of cow protection. Do you see the distinction?"

 

Yes, this discussion has always been about commercial milk.

 

"You seem concerned about the word hypocrite. Everyone I know is to some degree a hypocrite, definetly including myself. But we have to work on it."

 

Im concerned that you think srila prabhupada and his allowance of his diciples of having milk is hypocritical.

But im gald youve changed your self rightous tone from what you had below.

 

Thiest : “No body can force anyone to stop this practice of taking dairy from slaughtered cows but then please don't turn around and lecture the world on cow protection, you give up that right when you drink milk from a murdered cow.”

 

"Perhaps you could give me a better word for someone who preaches cow protection while himself killing cows everyday."

 

Please il ask once again give me evidence by not drinking commerciual milk it will reduce cow-slaughter (there will be less dairy cows replaced with non-diary cows for the appitite of carnivors.)

 

 

"You couls say we feel that supporting the torture, enslavement and slaughter of cows and calves is bad but because we offer the milk to Krsna it is really better for them in the long run. That would not be hypocrisy."

 

This is what we say, it is indeed bad that cows are suffering (i dont know about the slaughter you still have to give me evidence), but offering milk benifits the cows, and at the same time we strive for the ideal which is cow protection therefore we preach that. I dont see that as hypocritcal.

 

"Of course this also sounds like the argument that justified stealing from people while selling books. ajnata sukriti so stealing from people was really the devotees being merciful. I am not convinced of this approach"

 

This is only bonifide when done by the athorisation of guru just as when krishna asked yudistir to lie and cheat. Not when done whimsiclly.

Srila prabhupada never him self stopped drinking commercial milk, nor asked his dicsiples to stop. Im convinced of our acaryas approach.

[theist]

 

Yes, this discussion has always been about commercial milk.

 

 

OK so your drink the milk from unprotected cows, that is what commercial means.

 

 

"You seem concerned about the word hypocrite. Everyone I know is to some degree a hypocrite, definetly including myself. But we have to work on it."

 

Im concerned that you think srila prabhupada and his allowance of his diciples of having milk is hypocritical.

But im gald youve changed your self rightous tone from what you had below.

 

Thiest : “No body can force anyone to stop this practice of taking dairy from slaughtered cows but then please don't turn around and lecture the world on cow protection, you give up that right when you drink milk from a murdered cow.”

 

 

Let's see I can't call anyone a hypocrite but you can call me self-righteous. I stand by that statment rather you like the tone or not, sorry.

 

 

"Perhaps you could give me a better word for someone who preaches cow protection while himself killing cows everyday."

 

 

You could not give me an alternative? Perhaps the word hypocrite then is appropriate.

 

 

Please il ask once again give me evidence by not drinking commerciual milk it will reduce cow-slaughter (there will be less dairy cows replaced with non-diary cows for the appitite of carnivors.)

 

 

For the hundrdth time it seems. When you buy the milk from unprotected cows, you are directly supporting their enslavement torture and slaughter. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

Are you really trying to use the ole "well if they weren't killed for me they would be killed for someone else" routine to dodge the responsibility for your own actions? It doesn't work that way. Why not wear leather then?

 

 

 

"You couls say we feel that supporting the torture, enslavement and slaughter of cows and calves is bad but because we offer the milk to Krsna it is really better for them in the long run. That would not be hypocrisy."

 

This is what we say, it is indeed bad that cows are suffering (i dont know about the slaughter you still have to give me evidence), but offering milk benifits the cows, and at the same time we strive for the ideal which is cow protection therefore we preach that. I dont see that as hypocritcal.

 

 

You are not striving for cow protection. That is simply a falsehood. You are talking about it and preaching that cows should be protected by society but you are not protecting in fact you are partaking of the fruit of their horror. I do see that as hypocritical.

 

 

"Of course this also sounds like the argument that justified stealing from people while selling books. ajnata sukriti so stealing from people was really the devotees being merciful. I am not convinced of this approach"

 

This is only bonifide when done by the athorisation of guru just as when krishna asked yudistir to lie and cheat. Not when done whimsiclly.

Srila prabhupada never him self stopped drinking commercial milk, nor asked his dicsiples to stop. Im convinced of our acaryas approach.

 

 

Please do not tell you are convinced of his approach. You are convinced of a portion of his approach. The portion where you drink cows milk but not the portion where you protect the cows that give that milk.

Our positions should be rather clear by now, don't you agree?

 

[theist]

The birth of Mahäräja Parékñit is wonderful because in the womb of his mother he was protected by the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna. His activities are also wonderful because he chastised Kali, who was attempting to kill a cow. To kill cows means to end human civilization. He wanted to protect the cow from being killed by the great representative of sin. SB 1.4.9 pur

[vijay]

Please il ask once again give me evidence by not drinking commerciual milk it will reduce cow-slaughter (there will be less dairy cows replaced with non-diary cows for the appitite of carnivors.)

 

 

--

 

 

 

"For the hundrdth time it seems. When you buy the milk from unprotected cows, you are directly supporting their enslavement torture and slaughter. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?"

 

By you declariung it a hundreth time and thinking its so obvious doesnt constitute evidence.

 

"Are you really trying to use the ole "well if they weren't killed for me they would be killed for someone else" routine to dodge the responsibility for your own actions? It doesn't work that way. Why not wear leather then?"

 

Leather results from cow slaughter, the more leather we use the more cows will be killed. Just like the more cows we eat results in more cows being killed. Thefore milk is not anaolgous to leather. Besides im not saying "well if they weren't killed for me they would be killed for someone else" Im saying that the reason they are killed is for beef not for milk, they are not being killed for me in the first place. Again if you provide me evidence that if i stooped drinking milk less cows will be killed then give it, i dont regard you saying something a hundred times as athoritive.

 

"You are not striving for cow protection. That is simply a falsehood. You are talking about it and preaching that cows should be protected by society but you are not protecting in fact you are partaking of the fruit of their horror. I do see that as hypocritical."

 

Thats a bold statement, now if your talking about me personlally like you asked last time, then the answer is the same, i am doing something about cow protection, with my laxmi, and time, we have plans at bhaktivedanta manor for europes biggest gowshalla with laxmi in place, this will encourage others also. Its got mills that the bulls work, workshops for school children, and other features. the council has asked the plans to be reduced as they do not like us form the time they tried to shut us down.

So i cant take your statement seriously.

"You are not striving for cow protection. That is simply a falsehood"

 

"You are talking about it and preaching that cows should be protected by society but you are not protecting in fact you are partaking of the fruit of their horror. I do see that as hypocritical."

Well as i said that milk used in krsihnas service is better than abstinance, you may think mercy is not taking the milk, others believe that milk used in krsnas service is greater mercy than abstinence. (As milk is offerable, by scripture and the deeds of our acarya)

 

 

"Please do not tell you are convinced of his approach. You are convinced of a portion of his approach. The portion where you drink cows milk but not the portion where you protect the cows that give that milk."

 

again if your talking about me personally your statements are not true. If your talking about our society ISKCON then yes it has alot to do, it needs to preach more, look after the women and the children, sort out many things, like so many people with differing issues point out. Thanks for that, hopefully devotees will help in an ecouraging way than a negative way.

 

"Our positions should be rather clear by now, don't you agree?"

Nearly clear.

 

[theist]

The "you" refers to anyone who drinks commercial and simultaneous tells people in society that they must protect the cows. I don't even know who you are let alone the facts of your life.

 

Apparently you don't realize that even if nobody ate meat but everybody used dairy products the cows would still be killed. They would be killed. The price may rise or the govt. may subsidize more The interdependence of these two slaughter industry is now such that they are so intertwined as to be one but if one quite the other would adjust and continue.

 

I suggest if you are interested to do some independent reasearch into the dairy industry that you support and see if alternatives are in order.

 

It's your choice entirly.

[WyattEarp]

I suggest if you are interested to do some independent reasearch into the dairy industry that you support and see if alternatives are in order. It's your choice entirly.

 

Nice thread, interesting topic. From what I can tell, theist, you seem extremely dedicated to your cause. Myself, having lived in the Temple and been initiated (yes, I am fallen and the biggest hypocrite, just to save you time from pointing this out). the mood I get is that Srila Prabhupada approved of milk offerings. As gHari prabhu pointed out, Krsna would have told Srila Prabhupada if there was any offense in offering commercial milk.

 

I think everyone here respects your position. To a fault, it seems everyone acknowledges that the beef and dairy industry is cruel and heartless. However, I agree with others who have posted, that this is Kali yuga (you posted an excerpt today regarding Parksit Maharaja and kali), and surely Srila Prabhupada is/was well aware of the nature of this age. Yet, he offered milk, encouraged his disciples to do so, and still preached cow protection.

 

If this is difficult for you to reconcile, I suggest you inquire, be just a bit submissive, ask questions, give us the beneifit of the doubt. Otherwise, you are just coming across as a Peta fanatic. Please try to see these things through Prabhupada's perspective. I know you've stated that you are not a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Yet, many times in the past, you have used his quotes (from folio) in attempts to win your arguments. Now, you are distancing yourself from Srila Prabhupada, and claiming you are not a disciple of anyone. That is cool, no problem. But if you want to have a fruitful dialogue on this subject, I think you should stop calling people hypocrites. Or if you feel the need to do so, at least qualify that you mean no offense, if that is your opinion. I've seen so many others say that they honor your opinion.

 

If you do not understand ajnata sukriti, just say so. Also, we are not hindus, as Privarta suggests. Srila Prabhupada certainly isn't, and would object to being called as such.

 

Wyatt

 

"You called down the thunder, well now you got it!!!"

(Earp to the Clanton gang---Tombstone)

[theist]

OK Wyatt, but I have always enjoyed the thunder. Even as a little boy I loved the way it filled me with awe and wonder and now it still does while reminding me of Krsna. So bring it on if that suits you but you will have to do more than the huffin' and puffin' that you have put forth so far.

 

Distancing myself from Prabhupada? Or admitting that a distance exists? I don't think he needs one more person quoting him and pretending to be his discple and spokesperson. So I like to clarify the position to avoid misconceptions.

 

The word hypocrite has a particular meaning. Preach one thing while not doing it yourself. If someone preaches cow protection then they should be protecting cows. Right? My point is the commercial dairies that devottees patronize do not protect cows. Quite the opposite. They torture and slaughter them. By patronizing their service to that extent they work for you. You feel justied in doing this and I disagree. That's all. Each individual will have to make up their own mind.

[WyattEarp]

The word hypocrite has a particular meaning. Preach one thing while not doing it yourself. If someone preaches cow protection then they should be protecting cows. Right?

 

As Vijay suggested, this issue isn't black and white. We understand your position. As you've told us numerous times "we've heard it all before."

 

Srila Prabhupada drank milk and preached cow protection. You may wish to take it up with him.

 

And as far as my quote about the thunder, it wasn't directed towards you or anyone. Just a cool quote I heard from the movie "Tombstone", starring Kurt Russell. Val Kilmer had some great quotes in that film as well.

 

Wyatt

 

 

"I'm your huckleberry."

[Gauracandra]

I didn't want to get too much into this thread, but figured I'd add my two cents worth. I do drink a little bit of milk, though not much, and I could probably turn vegan relatively easily.

 

I do think Iskcon should be able to have a form of dairy industry, though it wouldn't be perfect. From what I've read a milk cow can produce about 6 to 8 gallons of milk per day. This means about 180 - 240 gallons per month. In addition they produce like 100 pounds of manure per day. This is just for 1 cow. So while it might not be perfect, it could be used in the larger communities. Certainly Alachua, which does have cows (though I'm not sure they are milked) should be able to handle their community needs. My understanding is they have about 400 - 500 families, which would equate lets say to about 750 devotees. If you say a family uses 1 gallon per month, then certainly with 2 cows you could create enough milk to satisfy the needs of that community.

 

The problem as I've said before is one of concentration. Too many devotee communities are too small. Maybe you have 80 people in a congregation. This is a bit difficult to create a good milk program.

 

One solution might be to network various other communities outside of just Iskcon. That is work to establish an Ahimsa farm. Then work with other Indian temples outside of the immediate vicinity, and get their members to sign up for a monthly gallon of milk delivered every two weeks to their nearest temple. Or how about other groups like Shivananda, or Yogi Bhajan folks etc... You might be able to create a pan-religious ahimsa milk industry. It would be more expensive but worth it. But truthfully if it was successful then greed would cause others to want to take it over, thus fracturing the project.

 

If I could buy 1 gallon of ahimsa milk per month, and it cost me $8, I'd do it. $8 isn't a whole lot. But the problem is we don't have enough people to do proper go of it. Just the equipment for pasteurization would be fairly expensive, not to count having a full time devotee milking the cows. This is why I've said before that we need more devotee concentration. Its good having all these centers, don't misunderstand me, but if we had say 5000 devotees living in a single area, then easily you could have say 10 milk cows, capable of providing a decent income to one or two cowherds. Just my thoughts. I think density will come in time, these are just the bumpy initial roads.

[theist]

I know they have a farm where the devotees who run really seem on top of things, They also have a website. I'm sure many know of it its called COWSP or something like that. I thought also that if they could dry it and sell it as powder, it could really take off. Ahimsa milk. From one location they could ship anywhere and the powdered form would simplify that greatly. It seems a natural and ideal occupation for devotees.

 

The potential is astronomical. The example tremendous. But I know these things are much easier to speculate about than do. It's hard to be simple in kali-yuga.

[theist]

Sorry I didn't see the movie pardner. Did they have the shootout at the OK corral? I missed the huckleberry thing also. Maybe I will see it one day.

 

 

As Vijay suggested, this issue isn't black and white.

 

 

To me it is very black and white.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada drank milk and preached cow protection. You may wish to take it up with him.

 

 

Yes he preach cow protection. Now that instruction doesn't mean to imitate him exactly but rather to protect the cows and take the milk from those protected cows and offer it to Krsna.

 

I like Priyavrata's approach very much. It's not milk or no milk, it's protected cows or tortured cows.

 

Your "take it up with him" comment I'll pass on replying to.

 

"You have until sundown"

 

[WyattEarp]

Yes, Tombstone, imo, was the best version of the shootout at OK Corral. Many say it was Val Kimer's best outing, as his lines have become classic.

 

I will have to politely disagree about the "imitation" comment. It's not that Prabhupada drank milk, the Deities ate milk sweets, and the disciples and devotees abstained. No, they followed. I hope you see the difference between following and preaching. And just because we've failed thus far doesn't mean we should stop preaching. Gaurachandra's post was a nice example of preaching. I think you may have a somewhat limited perception of what "preaching" means. Instituting ideal cow protection may take some time. Lots of discussion, planning, testing, trial and error, istagostis, all of which are included within the term "preaching." We may have to be a little patient.

 

As far as my comment about you "taking it up with Srila Prabhupada", you're welcome to reply or not, but I've read many of your previous posts in which you feel that Srila Prabhupada is just as much present now as he was 27 years ago, through his books, tapes, vani, etc. I don't know if you still feel the same way now, but if so, why not consult with Srila Prabhupada, (through his vani, his disciples, prayer, whatever.)

 

Wyatt

 

"My hypocrisy knows no bounds" (Doc Holliday to Wyatt Earp, in Tombstone.)

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Cow protection is one thing. We are not after being cows we are after being devotees. Mmm, like being Vegitarian anybody can be this. The real thing about cow protection is when you are a devotee. Otherwise why do people kill cows anyway?. We need to spread KC, not become jumped up on cow protection, thats what i say.

[theist]

I understand your point. I will try to find better wording for what I am trying to say.

 

Who was Prabhupada preaching to? Us. He wasn't just giving words that his students and disciples would then go and repeat to the public without first doing.

 

That would be like selling books but never reading them.

 

So say I approach someone with a book and say to them "You should read this book because it contains instructions on how you can live a spiritual life in harmony with God"

 

and then that person asks me, "Do you read them?"

 

and I say, "No, I just sell them so you will learn how to live your life."

 

Would I not be a hypocrite in their eyes?

 

Practice then preach. Remember Srila Prabhupada walked into this culture with seemingly no support. Was he supposed to have a self-sufficent cow protecting community set up and waiting for him when he arrived?

 

He did initiate the New Vrndaban farming and cow protection program very early on.

 

Now here it is 35 years later so I don't think saying Prabhupada reluctantly offered commercial milk as he attempt to start the farms is a very good example for people to fall back on.

 

So Priyavrata uses the term conditional vegan. Meaning milk from protected cows only. It is sad that such an idea meets with so much resistence.

[vijay]

Can you answer one question thiest prabhu, do you believe prabhupada was a hypocrite for drinking commercial milk and for allowing his disciples to drink milk? It will just make it easier when i reply to you as then i dont assume certain things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

read the above post

[vijay]

didnt see your post.

 

I guess as long as devotees try and follow srila prabhupada like he asked and prioritise as he would of (not to how others prioritise) to our capacity then we will avoid hypocracy else we will be hypocrites whether we give up commercial milk or maintain it.

 

Hari Hari

[WyattEarp]

It is sad that such an idea meets with so much resistence.

 

I was a veggie for 4 years before I ever found out about Krsna Consciousness. If I had not come into contact with the devotees, I would certainly be vegan, like yourself, as I am just as outraged about cow slaughter and abuse as you are.

 

But, having come into contact with devotees, I see things a bit differently than I did when I was just a "karmi" veggie. As Pankaja, Vijay, and others have pointed out, spreading KC and purifying the hearts of the jivas, automatically solves other problems, just like watering the root of the tree nourishes the leaves. Also, there is the consideration of yukta vairagya. As well as ajnata sukriti. As well as satisfying Krsna's desires. To force Krsna to become a vegan because ahimsa milk is not yet availabe would not seem to be in line with Srila Prabhupada's desires. Surely he would have instructed us to become vegans if we were unable to institute full-fledged cow-protection. My humble opinion is that Srila Prabhupada felt that by chanting, preaching, and prasad distribution, the hearts and souls of meat-eaters would become purified. It's not that we make separate endeavors to establish a vegetarian society. Read the NOD. Srila Prabhupada specifically states this fact. The more pure we become,the more we preach, then the sooner we will realize the ideal of cow protection.

 

Wyatt

 

"My hypocrisy only goes so far." --(Doc to Wyatt, in Tombstone.)

[theist]

 

I was a veggie for 4 years before I ever found out about Krsna Consciousness. If I had not come into contact with the devotees, I would certainly be vegan, like yourself, as I am just as outraged about cow slaughter and abuse as you are.

 

 

So somehow you seem to have this idea that one needs to drink cows milk to be a devotee. I don't share that view.

 

 

But, having come into contact with devotees, I see things a bit differently than I did when I was just a "karmi" veggie. As Pankaja, Vijay, and others have pointed out, spreading KC and purifying the hearts of the jivas, automatically solves other problems, just like watering the root of the tree nourishes the leaves.

 

 

Yes but how is the problem of cow abuse going to be solved if everyone keeps supporting it? A purified heart solves other problems because when a heart is free from lust greed and anger and filled with Krsna consciousness he no longer desires to exploit other living beings. In other words his change of heart is reflected in his actions. You do seem to understand that the cows and calves are being exploited by the dairy industry.

 

 

 

Also, there is the consideration of yukta vairagya. As well as ajnata sukriti. As well as satisfying Krsna's desires. To force Krsna to become a vegan because ahimsa milk is not yet availabe would not seem to be in line with Srila Prabhupada's desires.

 

 

Yes ajnata sukriti. Now i can see a wandering sannyasin approaching a household and begging something to eat. the housholder gives some milk and fruit to the mendicant. I can understand both the cow and the fruit tree receiving ajnata sukriti. But I don't see that happening in this commercial dairy situation we have now.

 

Now as far as Krsna becoming a vegan you must know Krsna is not dependent on us or our offerings. He does have His own Surabhi's which happily provide for Him. but in your personal devotion if you want to make some milk sweets or hot milk to offer to Krsna why not offer it mentally? There is no difference. Do you not think Krsna will be pleased by your desire to spare His children in cow forms all that ungodly suffering?

 

Prabhupada made his desires known in ther short time he was here. Milk from protected cows was his desire.

 

 

Surely he would have instructed us to become vegans if we were unable to institute full-fledged cow-protection.

 

 

 

Unable? or

Unwilling?

 

Unable means lacking in ability. Krsna is the ability in man. We have not set up proper cow protection because we just don't care. It is so much easier to sit back and drink the bloodmilk decade after decade.

 

 

 

My humble opinion is that Srila Prabhupada felt that by chanting, preaching, and prasad distribution, the hearts and souls of meat-eaters would become purified.

 

 

Yes and we were those meateaters not that long ago. A purified heart becomes evident by purified thoughts words and deeds. What are you saying? the chanting will purify "them" and then "they" will protect the cows. Well we are them we are they when we we will protect the cows?

 

 

 

 

It's not that we make separate endeavors to establish a vegetarian society. Read the NOD. Srila Prabhupada specifically states this fact. The more pure we become,the more we preach, then the sooner we will realize the ideal of cow protection.

 

 

Preaching yes, by example. Cow protection to acquire proper milk takes a concentrated effort by devotees who are willing to put their blood and sweat into it. So I believe those of us who are too lazy or too soft or perhaps busy in other efforts should get our milk only from those devotees who step up to protect the cows. Failing that there is conditional veganism.

 

 

 

[WyattEarp]

Prabhupada made his desires known in ther short time he was here. Milk from protected cows was his desire.

 

I've never denied that, and I don't believe anyone else here has either.

 

Unable means lacking in ability. Krsna is the ability in man. We have not set up proper cow protection because we just don't care.

 

That may be part of it. Manpower is also required. If we're somewhat pure in heart and we're preaching KC, then more people will become devotees, and the manpower will come. As mentioned, this takes time. I feel sure Srila Prabhupada realized this, and didn't necessarily expect an overnight success with the projects in New Vrindavana and elsewhere. He even predicted that in the SB that after the Acarya leaves, there will be chaos. That doesn't mean the chaos is permanent, just that there is an interim period of "regrouping". Sort of like taking a few steps backwards in order to get a running start. I have faith that all will work out in the end, and that we will experience a Golden Age of 10,000 years within this age of Kali.

 

I think we're probably starting to go in circles here. I do honor your decision to go vegan. I guess we'll each have to make our own decisions.

 

Wyatt

 

"You're a daisy." (Doc to Johnny Ringo)

[WyattEarp]

It's been a fun chat, Theist. I've been at work writing these posts, still am. But I think I need to take a nap now. My boss isn't here, so I guess I have that luxury, (if you want to call it that.) Not the greatest way to spend Christmas Eve, but it's helped pass the time.

 

By the way, as for myself, I rarely use milk anymore since I started reading, over a year ago, about how the milk cows are treated. I do try to get organic milk if I need milk, but even that is not ideal, since it doesn't address the issue of the bulls who get slaughtered. But I do believe that Krsna accepts milk if offered with love. The proof is in the pudding. When one honors prasad, even made from commercial milk, one can feel the potency and the purifciation. This would not happen unless Krsna accepted the offering. So, in my discussions with you, I am referring more in regards to cooks and pujaris at the Temples, who are serving under the guidance of their Acarya. Or householders such as Bhabru prabhu who have Deities Who love their milk products. If his Deities love their milk offerings, then it would seem that They are accepting them, and the food is transformed into prasad, which purifies all parties involved. As Vijay pointed out with a quote from Srila Prabhuada, even machines made by non-devotees can be used in Krsna's service, and the men who make those machines receive some benefit. Prasad is powerful. More than we can imagine. As horrific as non-ahimsa milk is, I believe that maha prasad (made from milk) outweighs the horrors of Kali Yuga and benefits one and all. It is that powerful. My feeble words cannot do proper justice to the unlimted, all-merciful nature of maha-prasad.

 

Wyatt

[krsna]

Yes, this is the bottom line ,not weather or not milk comes from slaughtered cows (although best to avoid) but ultimately if Krsna accepts this milk as a devotional offering.Take this Maha Prasad to your heart's content. We must have faith in the sublime glories of Maha prasad or be udderly(moooooooo) condemned.

 

 

 

The Glories of Mahaprasad from CC Antya-Lila:

 

 

TEXT 96

 

TEXT

 

'sukrti-labhya phela-lava'----balena bara-bara

 

isvara-sevaka puche,----'ki artha ihara'?

 

SYNONYMS

 

sukrti--by great fortune; labhya--obtainable; phela-lava--a particle of the remnants; balena--says; bara-bara--again and again; isvara-sevaka--the servants of Jagannatha; puche--inquire; ki--what; artha--the meaning; ihara--of this.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The Lord said again and again, "Only by great fortune may one come by a particle of the remnants of food offered to the Lord." The servants of the Jagannatha temple inquired, "What is the meaning of this?"

 

PURPORT

 

The remnants of Krsna's food are mixed with His saliva. In the Mahabharata and the Skanda Purana it is stated:

 

maha-prasade govinde

 

nama-brahmani vaisnave

 

svalpa-punyavatam rajan

 

visvaso naiva jayate

 

"Persons who are not very highly elevated in pious activities cannot believe in the remnants of food [prasada] of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nor in Govinda, the holy name of the Lord, nor in the Vaisnavas."

 

TEXT 97

 

TEXT

 

prabhu kahe,----"ei ye dila krsnadharamrta

 

brahmadi-durlabha ei nindaye 'amrta'

 

SYNONYMS

 

prabhu kahe--Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said; ei--this; ye--which; dila--you have given; krsna--of Lord Krsna; adhara-amrta--nectar from the lips; brahma-adi--by the demigods, headed by Lord Brahma; durlabha--difficult to obtain; ei--this; nindaye--defeats; amrta--nectar.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "These are remnants of food that Krsna has eaten and thus turned to nectar with His lips. It surpasses heavenly nectar, and even such demigods as Lord Brahma find it difficult to obtain.

 

TEXT 98

 

TEXT

 

krsnera ye bhukta-sesa, tara 'phela'-nama

 

tara eka 'lava' ye paya, sei bhagyavan

 

SYNONYMS

 

krsnera--of Lord Krsna; ye--whatever; bhukta-sesa--remnants of food; tara--of that; phela-nama--the name is phela; tara--of that; eka--one; lava--fragment; ye--one who; paya--gets; sei--he; bhagyavan--fortunate.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"Remnants left by Krsna are called phela. Anyone who obtains even a small portion must be considered very fortunate.

 

TEXT 99

 

TEXT

 

samanya bhagya haite tara prapti nahi haya

 

krsnera yante purna-krpa, sei taha paya

 

SYNONYMS

 

samanya--ordinary; bhagya--fortune; haite--from; tara--of that; prapti--attainment; nahi--not; haya--there is; krsnera--of Lord Krsna; yante--unto whom; purna-krpa--full mercy; sei--he; taha--that; paya--can get.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"One who is only ordinarily fortunate cannot obtain such mercy. Only persons who have the full mercy of Krsna can receive such remnants.

 

TEXT 100

 

TEXT

 

'sukrti'-sabde kahe 'krsna-krpa-hetu punya'

 

sei yanra haya, 'phela' paya sei dhanya"

 

SYNONYMS

 

sukrti--sukrti (pious activities); sabde--the word; kahe--is to be understood; krsna-krpa--the mercy of Krsna; hetu--because of; punya--pious activities; sei--he; yanra--of whom; haya--there is; phela--the remnants of food; paya--gets; sei--he; dhanya--very glorious.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"The word 'sukrti' refers to pious activities performed by the mercy of Krsna. One who is fortunate enough to obtain such mercy receives the remnants of the Lord's food and thus becomes glorious."

 

[krsna]

good article:

 

What Would Krishna Drink? Rethinking Milk in India

 

 

 

http://www.satyamag.com/nov04/iyer.html