got milk?

[krsna]

k

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Guest guest]

http://www.mothercow.org/

[theist]

That was a good article krsna.

 

Mothercow website was also good although I only read the exchange between Mother Cow and PeTA India.

 

PeTA India laid out the case for boycotting milk as it comes from ill-treated cows, and Mother Cow offered a more realistic solution which was to promote milk from protected cows as an alternative because Indians will never give up milk and dairy products altogether.

 

I agree with this approach. For devotees it may be more practical to become as Priyavrata suggested, conditional vegans.

 

Boycott milk from unprotected cows.

 

Maybe instead of another huge temple in India ISKCON could consider a small dairy with the ability to make powdered milk also. The expertise seems to already be there at ISCOWP in America and Mother Cow in India. Perhaps the main focus should go to them for awhlie and get this thing rolling.

 

Ahimsa Milk, it could not fail. The demand is already there. Menaka Gandhi would endorse it and the only problem would be keeping up with the demand.

 

A lot of work but ISKCON has shown some amazing accomplishments before.

 

[theist]

In India we are in scarcity of milk. So, krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam. [bg. 18.44]: "Farming, cow protection and trade are the natural work for the vaisyas..."] If you have got enough milk you can make trade. Vanijyam, that is Krsna's instruction. It is not that we hate the modern system. No, we do not hate anything. Nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe. [From Bhakti -rasamrta- sindhu 2.255: "When one is not attached to anything, but at the same time accepts everything in relation to Krsna, one is rightly situated above possessiveness. On the other hand, one who rejects everything without knowledge of its relationship to Krsna is not as complete in his renunciation."] we want to try to engage everything in Krsna's service. If modern machine is there, we don't hate it. We must find out the means how this machine can be utilized for Krsna's service. So if you have got excess milk, you can make it powdered milk and you can send to India in any amount. It will be consumed. At least we can use it in our different centers, we can distribute. So there is no question.

 

[theist]

http://www.iscowp.org/Discussions.htm

 

 

"ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi - USA)" <ISCOWP@pamho.net>

Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: Giving up on Commercial Milk saves cows?

 

It is short sighted to say that not buying milk products from the slaughterhouse diary industry will accomplish nothing or that it will cause great harm. As Madhava Gosh stated, all the animals in the dairy industry are going to be slaughtered, it is just a matter of when. Eventually less animals will be bred to supply the lessening demand for dairy products. As far as the dairy farmers going into leather products on a long term basis; I think they will not be able to compete with the low prices of the biggest leather exporter in the world, India.

 

Just because we can not have the ideal supported by ISKCON and the devotees, i.e. ox power agriculture, doesn't mean we can't take a stand that is less complicated and not difficult to institute- abstain from milk products from the commercial dairy as much as possible. At this point in the movement it has been long enough to say that since we don't have the ideal of ox power supported agriculture we need do nothing. That has been going on for more than 30 years.

 

If one is worried about the image that devotees have due to taking some position on cow protection; I can honestly tell you that we appear hypocritical and with no backbone because we do nothing concrete nor take any strong position. Lately, I have been contacted by several

persons in PETA for various reasons. These people are vegans for ethical reasons. They do not have the philosophy we do, but they are willing to commit to some abstinence, some austerities for the sake of a moral issue. On the other hand, most devotees take no action and just go on saying it won't make any difference if we abstain from commercial milk-just a drop in the bucket. And the devotees have the perfect philosophy about cow protection.

 

In 1991 when we traveled with our oxen across the country we got to see first hand for the first time how this lack of position affects the public image of ISKCON and devotees. We were inundated with a supportive number of young people (in their twenties). It was a Festival Of India event and these people went around to look at the exhibits and talk to the devotees. They then came back to us and had some problems with what they saw. They asked us why were almost all the devotees wearing leather shoes (Burkenstocks) and where did the milk products in the prasadam (foodstuffs offered to Krishna) come from. We could only point to our own shoes which were not leather and say that the movement was in a transition-moving away from supporting the leather and dairy industries. That was now almost 13 years ago - devotees are still wearing leather and the farms have been decreased-protecting less cows, and commercial dairy products are used with the same excuses.

 

Madhava Gosh and others have presented the theory of giving a percentage of the cost of dairy milk that is bought by a devotee to a cow protection program. It is a good idea, but has not taken root. Maybe it demands too much to do, i.e. figure the percentage, mail a check every month. Abstaining is simple. At least deceasing the amount of intake of commercial milk

products. Or you can support outright your local cow protection program, financially, offering labor, etc. Whatever you do, do something and don't go on saying it is all right to go on buying milk products from the dairy industry.

Any amount of so called kindness starts right here with having ACTIVE compassion for the most vulnerable being who has no voice, can't make any lawsuits - the cow. If we are not taking any ACTIVE position on cow protection any attempts at kindness to other humans will prove shallow and a hypocrisy.

"The killing of cows by human society is one of the grossest suicidal policies, and those who are anxious to cultivate the human spirit must turn their attention first toward the question of cow protection."

SB 10.5.7 Purport

 

Chayadevi

 

ISCOWP Secretary

 

 

[krsna]

"The killing of cows by human society is one of the grossest suicidal policies, and those who are anxious to cultivate the human spirit must turn their attention first toward the question of cow protection."

 

SB 10.5.7 Purport

 

 

--------------------------

 

So this is the point :neglect the cow means to neglect your spiritual life.

 

Think: Every time you drink milk from the dairy industry that mistreats and slaughters cows.

 

You are ,in fact, willingly commiting suicide. And then there is no wonder that we cannot provide a peaceful, hamonious alternative to community living when we are not willing to put mother cow in her proper place: next to Krsna.

 

 

"For the cowherd men and the cows, Krsna is the supreme friend. Therefore He is worshiped by the prayer namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca. His pastimes in Gokula, His dhama, are always favorable to the brahmanas and the cows. His first business is to give all comfort to the cows and the brahmanas. <font color="red"> In fact, comfort for the brahmanas is secondary, and comfort for the cows is His first concern </font color> ." /images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

Srila Prabhupada purport

[gHari]

<blockquote>Think: Every time you drink milk from the dairy industry that mistreats and slaughters cows. You are ,in fact, willingly commiting suicide. </blockquote>

 

That is just stupid. And offensive.

 

[theist]

The birth of Mahäräja Paréksit is wonderful because in the womb of his mother he was protected by the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna. His activities are also wonderful because he chastised Kali, who was attempting to kill a cow. To kill cows means to end human civilization. He wanted to protect the cow from being killed by the great representative of sin. SB 1.4.9 purport

[theist]

As far as the mode of ignorance is concerned, the performer is without knowledge, and therefore all his activities result in present misery, and afterwards he will go on toward animal life. Animal life is always miserable, although, under the spell of the illusory energy, mäyä, the animals do not understand this. Slaughtering poor animals is also due to the mode of ignorance. The animal killers do not know that in the future the animal will have a body suitable to kill them. That is the law of nature. In human society, if one kills a man he has to be hanged. That is the law of the state. Because of ignorance, people do not perceive that there is a complete state controlled by the Supreme Lord. Every living creature is a son of the Supreme Lord, and He does not tolerate even an ant’s being killed. One has to pay for it. So indulgence in animal killing for the taste of the tongue is the grossest kind of ignorance. A human being has no need to kill animals, because God has supplied so many nice things. If one indulges in meat-eating anyway, it is to be understood that he is acting in ignorance and is making his future very dark. Of all kinds of animal killing, the killing of cows is most vicious because the cow gives us all kinds of pleasure by supplying milk. Cow slaughter is an act of the grossest type of ignorance. In the Vedic literature (Åg Veda 9.4.64) the words gobhiù préëita-matsaram indicate that one who, being fully satisfied by milk, is desirous of killing the cow is in the grossest ignorance. There is also a prayer in the Vedic literature that states:

namo brahmaëya-deväya

go-brähmaëa-hitäya ca

jagad-dhitäya kåñëäya

govindäya namo namaù

“My Lord, You are the well-wisher of the cows and the brähmaëas, and You are the well-wisher of the entire human society and world.” (Vishnu Puräna 1.19.65) The purport is that special mention is given in that prayer for the protection of the cows and the brähmaëas. Brähmaëas are the symbol of spiritual education, and cows are the symbol of the most valuable food; these two living creatures, the brähmaëas and the cows, must be given all protection—that is real advancement of civilization. In modern human society, spiritual knowledge is neglected, and cow killing is encouraged. It is to be understood, then, that human society is advancing in the wrong direction and is clearing the path to its own condemnation. A civilization which guides the citizens to become animals in their next lives is certainly not a human civilization. The present human civilization is, of course, grossly misled by the modes of passion and ignorance. It is a very dangerous age, and all nations should take care to provide the easiest process, Krsna consciousness, to save humanity from the greatest danger.

 

 

[krsna]

Do we each need to go out and get a cow in order for us not to be hypocrites?

 

Do as I say but don't do as I do?

 

That is:Preach Cow Protection but continue to support the modern dairy industry directly or indirectly?

 

Of course ,we are are not advocating that the ISKCON temples are supporting cow slaughter by continuing to purchare milk from the shop. What we should be doing is plan a way that there be ahimsa milk more readily avaiable for the temples. I think a few temples in ISKCON are self-sufficient in that regard,at least for the milk that is offered to the Deities on the altar.

[theist]

By making an individual determination that one will not offer or consume any milk from tortured cows. If one wants to offer Krsna milk make some arrangement for acquiring it from devotee farms. If you can onlt get enough for your Deity offering then be satisfied with the maha only, until the effort expands.

 

Help the farming communities already set up to remain solid and fulfill Prabhupada's intruction to the Gita-nigari farm in 1975. Powdered milk from protected cows is gold. It will take some austerity in the transition but for the devotees of Srila Prabhupada it will be a labor of love.

 

 

So if you have got excess milk, you can make it powdered milk and you can send to India in any amount. It will be consumed. At least we can use it in our different centers, we can distribute. So there is no question.- SP at Gita-nagari.

 

 

 

 

[gHari]

Is that what we are saying here? If so, count me out of your speculations and criticism. Do we really think our minds can unravel the truth; that our minds are superior to Krsna's pure devotee; that the mind is superior to Paramatma; that the mind should rule the roost, drive the chariot, direct the senses?

 

Not only will we allow the demons to murder the cow, but we will also steal her opportunity to serve Krsna with her milk. How will that jiva soul cow atone for its previous cow killing without performing devotional service indirectly through the help of devotees? Won't the jiva be murdered once for every hair on the bodies of all cows it has murdered since time immemorial? These are the laws that determine how many cows will be born, not economics. Not offering her milk will cause the jiva soul to be born and die countless more times in the future, and that is certainly not ahimsa.

 

The truth is not as cut and dry as we want to think. We can't simplify things just to fit them into the mind - least of all the laws of karma. Guru, sadhu, sastra is the vision, and guru and sadhu have promoted another way to correct the cow abuse. They did not throw out the baby with the bath water. Whatever evil befalls the cow, it does not preclude her service to Krsna and vaishnava. That was the plan; guru, sadhu, sastra.

 

It is simply arrogant to think we know better than a pure devotee, that our minds are superior to his surrender.

 

[Gauracandra]

Let me come to Theist's defense. He is holding up well, but is pretty alone in this debate.

 

Here is the thing, and I say this as a milk drinker, Srila Prabhupada certainly did allow the use of milk. But an allowance should not be construed as an excuse.

 

It is clear from all of his instructions that he wanted an independent cow protection system. It has now been over 25 years since his disappearance and no such system is in place. I can easily see in 200 years the same argument being used. "We don't have a cow protection program but thats ok because Srila Prabhupada allowed us to drink commercial milk." This certainly would not be what Prabhupada would want.

 

In other words we keep kicking the can down the road. Imagine for a moment that the whole managerial and spiritual leadership of Iskcon said to is members "We are no longer going to allow drinking commercial milk, we'll consider it a breaking of the principles." I mean I've seen devotees who get on other devotees cases for drinking coffee or tea (which cause no harm to others and very little to oneself), but never milk. In other words we need to bring this to a point and I think Theist is trying to do that. A point is something good because it is the only way to break out of a pattern of complacency. If we bring it philosophically to the forefront, this is the first step to actually getting it done and stop kicking the can to some undefined future date.

 

Its about changing our mindset. I'm just as much at fault, but I can see Theist's frustration.

[Gauracandra]

Theist,

 

You wrote:

 

 

Madhava Gosh and others have presented the theory of giving a percentage of the cost of dairy milk that is bought by a devotee to a cow protection program. It is a good idea, but has not taken root. Maybe it demands too much to do, i.e. figure the percentage, mail a check every month.

 

 

Now, I'm not sure I understand this proposal correctly. But reading this made me think. Why can't Iskcon, with all of it's kitchens throughout the world, purchase commerical dairy milk wholesale. That is, a local temple will buy commercial milk, just like your corner store, store the gallons of milk in a kitchen refridgerator. And then sell back to the devotees at a slight profit at the same price as stores sell it. Maybe you make $1 per gallon. Every Sundays devotees come. They buy their gallon of milk from the temple and take it back home. They were going to buy the milk anyways. Now however the temple takes that $1 per gallon say, and puts it into a cow protection fund. Then even a temple with only 80 devotees could generate $80 every month. If this was done in all temples in the U.S. you could probably raise $3000 per month, or perhaps around $40K per year. This would not be spent, but rather accumulated to build up the physical infrastructure needed for our own private milk industry.

 

I could see for instance the cost of a bottling system being maybe $50k, the cost for a pasteurization system being another $50K, and the cost for a refridgeration system being a further $50K. Lets say to create a simple milk processing system you need to invest $150K just in equipment. No one wants to cough up that kind of dough. But if all Iskcon temples work with their congregation in the above manner, we could probably raise that in 5 or 6 years. In this way our commercial purchasing would work to establish some independence. The best place would be to put this equipment in Alachua to create this private milk industry.

 

I think this is an entirely workable solution.

[Gauracandra]

I said that we could probably build up the physical infrastructure in 5 or 6 years. This would be for a single region (say the south east - Alachua). The program would continue indefinitely, so every 5 or 6 years simply by using our existing kitchen equipment as a one item devotee store, you could keep raising funds to establish independent milk production in other regions. First buy some land, then equipment, then some cows etc... steadily you could use these funds to create a real cow protection program with no cost to the devotee community. We'd just buy from our temple rather than the corner store. Is it perfect? No. But it is a step towards independence.

[theist]

Gauracandra understands this thing perfectly. It is now in a pattern where it will just drift deeper and deeper into inertia.

 

But now there is a moment of oppurtunity. There is enough devotee momentum to bring this horrible situation to a solution before it becomes intractable.

 

People waving Prabhupada's banner in support of milk while ignoring all his instructions on cow protection don't make any impression on me.

 

Kind of reminds me of the Christians waving the Old Testament saying God said we can eat meat. Sorry but that is how I see it. Not exactly the same but remenicent.

 

Gauracandra, that quote was not mine but Chayadevi's from ISCOWP. Her article was a poat in reply to several others, and Madhva Gosh had spoken before her. That link on my post will take you to the discussion where different points are made.

 

There is merit to it but I don't think it goes far enough fast enough. But some moves have to be made.

[WyattEarp]

Gauracandra understands this thing perfectly.

 

In that case, we are making progress in trying to understand one another.

 

Gaurachandra's analogy that we've been "kicking the can further down the road" is a good one, and I agree.

 

He made a practical proposal about how Temples could purchase commercial milk, wholesale, then sell it to devotees in order to make a profit, and then use those profits for financing ahimsa dairies, beginning in Alachua. He said it may take time, 5 or 6 years (per region), which seems realistic. But you feel that his idea does not solve the problems far enough, fast enough.

 

This has been my point all along, that we work towards establishing ahimsa dairies, but in the meantime, we continue to use commercial milk during the transition period. I think this is what Gaurachandra prabhu is saying (correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

Since you say that Gaurachandra prabhu understands this perfectly, yet his proposal is to continue using commercial milk until we have the goshallas and ahimsa dairies firmly in place, this leads me to believe that perhaps some of us haven't been wording our statements so as to be properly understood. But at least we are now making progress.

 

Yes, I think we should stop kicking that ol' can down the road. Surely there are some intelligent minds who have the leadership skills to do what it takes to get this massive cow-protection program underway, in full-swing, not just in small, scattered, isolated places.

 

Thankyou Gaurachandra prabhu for putting in words what I was unable to express.

 

Wyatt

 

[WyattEarp]

I also agree 100% with what gHari said. It's one thing that we (milk drinkers/offerers) are being called hypocrites. But when we're being accused of knowingly and willingly committing suicide for using commercial milk, then those are very strong words. I know myself and Vijay have said it's not a black and white issue, and gHari said pretty much the same, "the truth is not cut and dry", and that on such matters, we need to consult with Guru, Sastra, and Sadhu to find out the truth.

 

[vijay]

"Gauracandra understands this thing perfectly. It is now in a pattern where it will just drift deeper and deeper into inertia. "

 

I agree with the inertia argument, however i dont think the inertia is the cow protection that is a part of a deeper inertia that has taken place. 30 years ago way more book distribution was occuring, more devotees being trained up and living in the ashrams, generally more enthusiasm and courage to preach big, ie george harisons, ambrish prabhu's, after prabhupada's depature these core activities have gone down heavily, creating was easy, maintance seems harder, we seem to be going through a consilidation and purification stage as well as the danger of major inertia. My point is in priorities, I sincerely believe that concentration in these core activities will bring about self sufficient communities and varnashrama. Im not saying that these things should be neglected, just that iskcons priorities need to be to re-sucitate the core activites prabhupada recomended which are and have been in decline since he left, else iskcon will never really make an impact again.

 

After so many guru fall downs, so many temples which are massive in land ans scale dont have any man power to run them, the temple in sweden was massive with so many devotees, living there, now theres 2 devotees living there struggling, being helped by some congragation, same with temples ive seen in italy germany and spain. The temple i go to the bahktivedanta manor is suppose to be one of the best in europe, yet they need to import devotees form india and europe to take care of it. Im also aware that this is the condition in many temples in north america if not worse.

 

Therefore Iskcon devotees may be hypocrites but they are trying to recover from a collapse and thus there are priorities in projects, i dont see that as kicking the can. If a devotee is willing to head up a project if they feel strongly about it then great, the problem is that there are so many demands but not enough devotees willing to put words in to action.

[theist]

When I said Gauracandra say what I was saying perfectly I meant he say I was trying bring this "topic to a head". Not just argue or name call.

 

I don't support personally any continued purchase of commerical milk. But if the persons that did that also offered money and support to cow protection programs then that would be better than nothing and may turn into something good.

 

For myself it is simple. No money to the cow slaughters.

 

But vijay I don't think there is a need to bring in all the other ISKCON problems into this issue. That just complicates things unnecessarily. There are devotees right this moment working hard on this project of cow protection. They should be supported.

 

Prabhupada said to make powdered milk and sell it. So if ISKCON would focus on that enough to get the program solidly off the ground it would quickly become self-sufficent and this whole thing would be behind the movement. Conditional vegans who only take milk from protected cows. Then when speaking to others about cow protection you would be on solid ground.

[vijay]

"But vijay I don't think there is a need to bring in all the other ISKCON problems into this issue. That just complicates things unnecessarily. There are devotees right this moment working hard on this project of cow protection. They should be supported."

 

"Prabhupada said to make powdered milk and sell it. So if ISKCON would focus on that enough to get the program solidly off the ground it would quickly become self-sufficent and this whole thing would be behind the movement. "

 

You say there is no need to bring in iskons issues, then you say that iskcon should focus on it. Go-raksha where ever it can happen where there is a critical mass of devotees then thats fine unfortunately we do not have big communities they have gone down like i pointed out. Go-raksha is for mans special material benifit as prabhupada says, and the emphasis is secondary, increase in book distribution, schools, preaching, enthusiasm among devotees, comes before cow protection, if the core activities were florishing then cow protection would also florish. Thats my simple point.

 

I liked harkrishnadasa's point about how far do you go, maybe we should buy wheat grounded by oxens, or if we cant do that then pay an extra percentage on our bread and petrol so that we can create facilities. Its as a direct result from farms using tractors that oxen have been slughtered, maybe we shouldnt buy no food from these farms. Else we are hypocrites as thats what we preach.

 

[theist]

If the simple suffering of the calves being ripped from their mother cows, put in crates so small for 14 weeks so they can't even turn around so the muscles will remain weak and tender for the satisfaction of the veal eaters then what can I say.

 

The Mother cow that gives YOUR milk will be slaughtered while young after she no longer produces the maxim quota of milk and her flesh sold by the butchers of the world apparently cannot touch your heart, so enjoy her pus filled stolen blood milk to your hearts content. Bon Apetite.

 

It is amazing how you use the same arguments that others do to justify their own flesh eating. Maybe not so amazing when I think about it.

 

But others will make a different choice, personal to them, and turn from this evil practice in Krsna's name and out of a growing knowledge of the industry and their own sense of compassion. My worthless dandavat pranams unto them.

[vijay]

"The Mother cow that gives YOUR milk will be slaughtered will young after she no longer produces the maxim quota of milk and her flesh sold by the butchers of the world apparently cannot touch your heart so enjoy her pus filled stolen blood milk to your hearts content. Bon Apetite."

 

It does but our solutions differ. If devotees want to give up milk then good on them, im not against that and have never stated im against it, its just annoying when devotees try and shuv it down your throat as one of the most important things we have to do.

 

How far do you go, we should also protect the father, the oxen, prabhupada stated that, should we use only food where oxen farming has been used? Why dont you find out and set up a group.

 

All women are our mothers, why dont you do something about all the abused and surpressed women of the world? You doing nothing contributes to their suffering.

 

"It is amazing how you use the same arguments that others do to justify their own flesh eating. Maybe not so amzing when I think about it."

I follow guru sadha shastra, if krishna wanted me to kill animals i would, if he wanted me to kill armies then i should no matter how much suffering it caused, if prabhupada has allowed us to drink milk then you to say "no actually he ment only if you set up farm communities you can drink milk", I dont buy it.

 

Devotees get sentimental about so many mundane causes, il try and do my bit but the ultimate solution is to do what srila prabhupada asked us to do which is to make people krishna concious spreading the spitual message, very little use trying to patch up material problems by spreading PETA's,greenpeaces, gayrights,womens rights messages, these happen naturally like watering the tree solves material problems.

 

Should we use an oxen vehicle? Should we use oxen farming foods only? Ideally yes. Will you? most likely no. We dont live in an ideal society, prabhupada has given us the minimum standards if you want to add more standards then god bless you, hopes it makes you, the cows and others more krsna concious.

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

http://www.jainsamaj.org/literature/impact-301002.htm

 

excerpt:

 

[...]

Cruelty to Cows

Dr Kurien has described the dairy industry as the gentle industry. You claim it is just the opposite? The dairy industry is not gentle. The fact that supplies cater to demand makes the cow the ultimate victim. It may have been gentle when each household had its own cow and treated it as a member of the family. This is no longer true.

How is milk produced now in India?

 

The cow is forced into yearly pregnancies. After giving birth she is milked for 10 months but will be artificially inseminated during her third month so that she is milked even when she is pregnant. The demanded of production of milk is more than her body can give. So she starts breaking down body tissue to produce milk. The result is an illness called ketosis. Most of the day the cow is tied up in a narrow stall usually wallowing in her own excrement. She gets mastitis because the hands that milk her are rough and usually unclean. She gets rumen acidosis from bad food and lameness. She is kept alive with antibiotics and hormones. Each year 20 per cent of these dairy cows are sent illegally by truck and train to slaughter houses. Or they are starved to death by letting them loose in the cities.

 

It is no secret that the slaughter house in Goa was constructed by Amul Dairy. No cow lives out her normal life cycle. She is milked, made sick and then killed. Even worse happens to her child. The male calves are tied up and starved to death or sent to the slaughter houses. It is not by chance that a calf is no longer called bachda in India. It is called katra, which means one who is to be killed. Even Dr Kurien admits that in Mumbai every year 80,000 calves are forcibly put to death.

 

But milkmen (doodhwalas) love their cows. They live off them. Have you seen how cows are milked? In the villages they practice phukan, a method of milking a cow. A stick is poked into the cow's uterus and wiggled, causing her intense pain. Villagers believe this leads to more milk. In the cities they are given two injections of oxytocin every day to make the milk come faster. This gives her labor pains twice a day. Her uterus develops sores and makes her sterile prematurely. Oxytocin is banned for use on animals but it is sold in every cigarette shop around a dairy. Every illiterate milkman knows the word. In human beings, oxytocin causes hormonal imbalances, weak eyesight, miscarriages, and cancer. Recently, government of Gujarat started raiding dairies for oxytocin. In one day, they found 350,000 ampoules in just one city Ahmedabad!

 

[...]

[vijay]

For all the moralists please also write to your goverments about their contribution to the arms trade http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2003/09/276557.pdf

Some shocking facts if we dont protect the mothers and children on our planets we are hypocrites, if you devotees dont do nothing then you are hypocrites. Prabhupada wanted women and children protected.

 

http://www.krishna.com/newsite/printarticles/Year_Of_Ox.html

1997--The Year of the Ox

 

By Hare Krishna Devi Dasi

 

According to the East Asian calendar, 1997 was the Year of the Ox.

 

Ox power is fifty percent of cow protection, because bulls are fifty percent of the herd.

 

Our friends the vegans may hope to escape the sin of animal slaughter by avoiding commercial milk products. But eating tractor-produced grains implicates all of us in the slaughter of bulls, because tractors deny bulls their God-given work of tilling the field. Hardly one bull calf can be saved from the slaughterhouse even by a thousand vegans. If there is no use for the bull calf, the farmer must kill him.

 

The real way to save the bull is to engage him in productive work. When you work with a trained ox, you see how he enjoys working. The ox has big muscles, and like an athlete he gets pleasure from using them. The ox likes working as an intimate partner to a human being who shows gratitude for the ox's power and loyalty. And the ox can help us toward a simple life conducive to spiritual advancement.

 

In this Year of the Ox, let's think about the advantages of letting Father Bull do his part in building a peaceful, Krishna conscious society.

 

Here's a comparison: ox power vs. tractor power.

 

Plowing speed

Tractor: one tractor with a five-bottom plow: 20 acres a day, one super tractor with a twelve-bottom plow: 80 acres a day

Ox: one team of two oxen pulling a single-bottom plow: 1 acre a day, three ox teams pulling a double-bottom plow: 3 to 4 acres a day

 

Fuel

Tractor: gasoline

Ox: grains, legumes, grasses

 

By-products

Tractor: pollutants, gas fumes, large hunks of junked equipment

Ox: While alive: manure, convertible into clean-burning bio-gas and top-quality organic fertilizer. After natural death: leather and horn for crafts

 

Purchase price

1 tractor: $20,000 to $250,000. Equipment: thousands more

A team of 2 oxen: $200 (2 100-pound bull calves bought at "meat value," $1 a pound). Equipment: a few hundred dollars (less if homemade)

 

Maintenance

Tractor: Expensive mechanical repairs. In third-world countries, parts sometimes impossible to obtain.

Ox: Health care by the local farmer and vet. Tool-fixing by any blacksmith or handyman.

 

Main economic mode

Tractor: Capital-intensive, market-oriented. Grain farmer needs at least 400 acres to survive.

Ox: Labor-intensive, subsistence-oriented. Farmer can feed his family well with 5 good acres.

 

Employment

Tractor: One man can farm many acres, putting dozens of men out of work.

Ox: One man can farm only a few acres. Nearly everyone in the village gets involved in growing food.

 

Distribution of Wealth

Tractor: Well-being and comfort for a few, at the expense of many. Cash moves towards the corporation.

Ox: The farmer lives in modest comfort, not much better or worse off than his neighbors. Cash stays in the community.

 

Environmental Impact

Tractor: Born of a factory, spawned by mines, refineries, and oil wells, fed on petrol. Batters the soil.

Ox: Born of a mother, fed by the earth. Treads benignly on the soil.

 

What it does for the poor

Tractor: Makes grain hi-tech and costly. Pushes the poor into dependence on local charity and international handouts

Ox: Empowers the poor to grow their own food, securing their long-term welfare.

 

Violence

Tractor: Makes oxen useless for plowing, dooming bull calves to slaughter. Drives farmers off their land and into joblessness, bringing land under the grip of a few.

Ox: Works peacefully, in natural partnership with man.

 

Spiritual Development

Tractor: Chains a man to a roaring, dangerous, bone-jarring machine. Drags farming into the world of commodities speculation and land grabbing. Drives farmers out of the fields and onto the streets of the city. Ruins spiritual development.

Ox: Works with the farmer at quiet, wholesome labor. Upholds a life of dependence on God and thankfulness for the bounty of the land. Pulls toward a simple, honest life in a natural setting for spiritual advancement.

 

Sustainability

Tractor: Finished as soon as cheap petroleum runs out.

Ox: Can't sustain itself where agribusiness is the norm and land prices are driven up by speculation. You can't farm with oxen on land that costs $6000 an acre. But under spiritually enlightened leaders who protect the land and accept taxes in the form of grains and produce, ox-power farming can sustain itself, on and on and on.

 

Maybe while your at it you should also protest against capitalism, which has caused animal cruelty on a larger scale, arms dealing, greater world poverty by robbing poor nations, aswell abolishing all medcines tested on animals or maybe compile a list to see which ones are vegan friendly. Or am i now getting silly? where do we draw the line? guru?