got milk?

[stonehearted]

Wyatt, my post wasn't aimed at you; rather, it was a response to the general tone of the discussion. Yes, theist used stronger language than he might have a couple of weeks ago, but vijay's defense of himself also got a little heated. In the meantime, all have benefitted from the quotations from Srila Prabhupada, as well as those from Hare Krishna dasi and Paramadvaiti Maharaja. Recently, I read a comment from Narayana Maharaja along the same lines. I think the case would be even stronger if there were some shastric support for the argument.

 

I'm not vegan, and I'm not an advocate of not offering (even blood) milk to Krishna and honoring and distributing His prasada. I do wish more of us were trying harder to effect cow protection. Boycotting blood milk will not stop the slaughter of cows immediately, but if the cultuure were to change, abuse of cows would gradually diminish. Only you and I can bring about that change. Gandhi exhorted us to be the change we want to see. So I'd prefer to see less complacency and self satisfaction and more activism.

 

As far as programs I like, from what I've seen Narasingha Maharaja's Mother Cow program seems really nice, although I've seen some criticism (from Hare Krishna dasi? I'm not sure.). I have friends who have a few cows and are careful about breeding so they don't get out of their league, such as Turiya das prabhu on Maui and Sripad Tripurari Maharaja in northern California, and Sadananada prabhu in Southern California. Here on the Big Island, Dayal Chandra prabhu has a herd of 50 or more cows whom he serves very nicely, and the devotees here, most of whom are not affluent, support his program by buying their milk and offering it to Krishna. Dayal's life belongs to those cows; all his energy goes into serving them. When more of us are willing to make such sacrifice, or at least to support those who are, We may see the world change a little at a time.

 

I don't know much about any other programs because my small life is limited by being in the middle of the ocean, and travel is generally beyond my budget. I know that ISCOWP, managed by my old, dear friends Balabhadra and Chaya-devi, operates as an educational program, as well as agricultural. Engaging bulls and avoiding tractors is an important part of cow protection. When Srila Prabhupada visited this island in May of 1975, he told us to develop a self-sufficient Krishna-conscious village community. (It never happened; ISKCON sold the farm later that same year.) Wherever there are cows, crops, and Krishna, he said, that is Vrindavan.

[theist]

 

vijay:

 

You'r right it became a dispute, Most of us here dont mind someone being a vegan i have no problems with it, but when anyone that doesnt follow that way is labelled as a hypocite (thus the peson thinking they have the truth and critisising) I had problems with that. Therefore presented evidence against this claim, to show that the issue is not so black and white and may be they should be careful.

 

Maybe if the whole thing began as a discussion rather than a rituous statement then it could have been more productive. Isnt submissive inquiry our process? Actually it did start off with a question, but then was overshadowed by theitji's very strong statements.

 

 

And here is that intial question and my response to it which I stand by %100

 

 

 

 

 

What is your position on milk?

The fact is that in this age, commercial dairy cows are kept pregnant to produce milk and their babies are auctioned to veal slaughter houses. So in essence, when you drink milk you are killing baby cows. I don't think this is good and certainly not karma-free.

Any thoughts?

 

Hare Krsna.

-Gopalapriya das

 

Post Extras:

theist

Member

 

Reged: 04/07/02

Posts: 5591

I agree [re: gopalapriyadas]

12/16/04 04:09 PM Edit Reply

 

The dairy industry is just another manifestation of the slaughter industry. We like to envision them as being distinct but they are not.

 

At birth the calves are ripped away from the mother, males used for veal while the females become future dairy producers (machines).

 

When they get too old to produce enough milk they are slaughtered for meat.

 

This isn't Gopala and the cowherd boys playing in the forest with cows and calves, this is slavery, torture and butchery on a massive scale.

 

Devotees like to preach cow protection but until commercial milk products are given up there won't be enough substance to the words to effect change.

 

Go vegan. http://www.milksucks.com/

 

 

I have been vegan for over 30 years now. Much of that time associated in some way with assocaition wth ISKCON. I have been called a demon several times for refusing milk, called a traitor and etc. I never responded, not once. It is not about my ego or yours vijay. I still say it is hypocrisy to put up cow protection booths at fairs (you know the ones, pictures of devotees behind the plow etc.) and preach cow protection to the public. At one such event, Ratha-Yatra, a vegan girl challenged Prithu das on this point. He blasted back with the same song and dance about how the vegan girl was not protecting cows but they were by offering the milk (bloodmilk). The discussion got very heated and the girl left angry. He never even told her she could offer vegan food.

 

Now I am not going through another 10 pages to end up basically in the same place as we were. Everybody feels "something" has been learned but I don't think so at all.

 

I have been consistently trying to steer the conversation onto conditional veganism as mentioned by Priyavrata and the powedered milk instruction from Srila Prabhupada. Not once has anyone taking up that discussion. It is the obvious solution. But solutions are not being sought rather excuses for continuing the inexcusable participation in the cow slaughter with a massage conscience.

 

No new learning experience for me just the same old same old now into its third decade.

 

If anyone wants to speak to the conditional vegan idea or the powdered milk solution fine, otherwise no thanks. Just going on and on about the fine points of setting up a farm are not useful at this point.

 

Govinda Jaya Jaya Gopala Jaya Jaya

Radha ramana Hari Govinda Jaya Jaya

 

 

[theist]

 

I think the case would be even stronger if there were some shastric support for the argument.

 

 

The Putana quote was not very convincing.

 

 

 

[theist]

"But He's (Krsna) speaking of go-raksya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. "-Prabhupada

 

empasis mine

 

[vijay]

"I have been consistently trying to steer the conversation onto conditional veganism as mentioned by Priyavrata and the powedered milk instruction from Srila Prabhupada. Not once has anyone taking up that discussion. It is the obvious solution. But solutions are not being sought rather excuses for continuing the inexcusable participation in the cow slaughter with a massage conscience."

 

Ive agreed devotees can turn to conditional veganism, it may or may not (shyamsundara prabhu's article) be the "obvious" solution, it may or maqy not do any good but at least its something.

 

But i disagree that this is the only way and if people dont follow it theres something wrong with them attitude, and also of minimising the effects of offering commercial milk as just an excuse (which it may or may not be but besides the philosophical point).

 

 

Anyway thank you and haribol.

 

[Guest guest]

u aint really killing a baby cow you can always feed them aswell

[Guest guest]

If one offers Krsna a glass of milk from a cow who had her baby ripped away and slaughtered, the baby cow is blessed far greater than a cow who is lewft alone in the above described dairies who never had a cup of milk offered to krsna.

 

That is exactly perfect for an explanation!

 

BDM

[theist]

http://www.chakra.org/living/SimpSep08_05.html