PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH

[kameshi]

I dont know much about Vaishnavism.

I believe in female God.

Please tell me whether Krishna is the only way we should worship or we can consider other forms also as the Supreme being?

 

By reading the mails in this forum I have the feeling that only Vaishnavites are Hindus.

I find Saivism and Mother Shakti(Part of Shaivism) is always humiliated.

Please let me know which one is the correct way to reach the ultimate.

 

[Guest guest]

in a female god already, how can you say that you will worship Krishna if we say he is the supreme being? If makes me think that you don't have very much faith in your belief. We are not hindus. We believe that krishna is the one and only supreme being. You should find a copy of the bhagavad-gita, and read it carefully.

Haribol

 

[Guest guest]

If you consider yourself as Hindu, you are a Hindu. Hinduism doesn't restrict you to worship Krishna.

 

 

 

[theist]

Krsna bhaktas also worship the feminine aspect of God, predominently as Radha which they consider the highest and most intimate feminine feature of the Godhead.

 

The Hare in Hare Krsna is a calling out to Mother Hara for Her to engage us in service and spiritual love. They worship the combined form of Radha/Krsna as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

These Gaudiya Vaisnava's seem especially greedy in that they don't just choose to worship the femine or masculine but they demand both.

 

By chanting Hare Krsna mantra one approach's first the feminine as Hare and then Krsna. Without the mercy of Mother Hara there is no chance of being engaged in Krsna's service.

 

There is no need for you to give up your great attachment to the feminine shakti to engage in Krsna worship. In fact it is taught that we jiva's are actually feminine in nature also.

 

Why not investigate Her highest expression as Radharani? Become Her servant and take Her side as She deals with Krsna. There is all variety of possible moods within your relationship to Radha Krsna worship.

 

At the bottom of this post there is a link to many books bySrila Prabhupada. Please look there for the Srimad Bhagavatam and especially the tenth canto and read the pastimes of Radha Krsna lila.

 

Also read the Caitanya Charitamrta found on the same link for a fuller explanation.

 

I have a feeling that you may be Indian and thus already familar with many of these works so going to the Source will come naturally to you. But even if not there are very elaborate commentaries on each verse you can get to by clicking on the verse numbers. That way you will get the real understanding of how Krsna consciousness is all inclusive of other traditions.

 

I myself choose to worship Lord Jesus Christ as well as Krsna. In doing so I also worship Mother Mary as a representative of Radharani. Now if I can do that surely you can also worship Sita Rama, Laksmi Narayana, and so on. Some devotees also worship Lord Shiva as the greatest of devotees. The unifying factor is that we worship everyone in connection to Krsna.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

[snip]

 

Devotee: Srila Prabhupäda, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gétä. He visits our temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krsna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krsna. So he has now interpreted that to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krsna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I’m not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...

 

Prabhupäda: Difficulty?

 

Brahmänanda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krsna says, “You can please Me by worshiping My devotee,” and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krsna. So therefore this man says, “Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krsna.”

Prabhupäda: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

 

Devotee (3): I’ve got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, but there’s no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

 

Prabhupäda: No, vaiñëavänäm yathä çambhuù: “Amongst the Vaisnavas, Sambhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaisnava.” So we worship Lord Siva as Vaisnava. We gives respect to Vaisnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaisnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krsna will be pleased.

 

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupäda, he does not chant Hare Krsna, he chants om siväya namaha.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

 

Devotee (3): It’s all right?

 

Prabhupäda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.

 

Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krsna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...

 

Prabhupäda: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaisnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.

 

[snip]

 

From the above conversation we can see how Srila Prabhupada corrected his disciple.

 

Om Sivaya Namaha, Hare Krsna

 

Worship freely

[kameshi]

Sorry I previously misunderstood "HARE" as the addressing of lord KRISHNA as HARI(because in sanskrit,we address male names ending with 'eee' as 'ye' ie,Hari as Hare)

thanks that you corrected me to know that Hare represents female name.

Radha Devi as I consider is not different from "LALITHA PARAMESWARI" whom I believe as the supreme being.

 

Thanks for your suggestion I will soon study the Holy books given by you, as I have by-hearted the Rahasya Sahasranama of my favourite God.

[kameshi]

Thanks for the letter

 

The books I have read said that LALITHAMBIKA is the supreme.

Now great people like Srila Prabhupäda says that Krishna is supreme .

I am totally confused.

 

Anyway, all deities are the manifestations of the same power which only existed before the universe(So I think)

 

Please tell me whether my concept is true or not.

I am very much attached to Her that I get my eyes filled with tear when I hear Her praise or songs.

Is it fair for me to discard my current beliefs?

[theist]

 

Anyway, all deities are the manifestations of the same power which only existed before the universe(So I think)

 

 

This is a very important point where Vaisnava's offer a different understanding then say the Advaitins. Being justa begiinner and not sp philosophical I can only mention a little.

 

The Vaisnava's teach that Krsna is the Supremely Powerful Person and the Brahman formless energy that pervades everything is His power.

 

So they put the powerful always before the energy. That makes sense to me. I have heard the example of the Sun and the sunshine. The sun is the powerful source of the the sun power or sunshine. The Sun does not come from the formless sunshine.

 

At the same time though that we can see the difference we can see the oneness. Because without the sunshine there would be no meaning to the Sun. So without the power their would be no meaning to the powerful.

 

So they are one and different at the same time. Which I find is a very special feature of this Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. This is not understood in religions outside of India that I know of and even with Indian traditions it seems to be the exceptional case. After reading about this I have come to accept that it is the only one that makes complete sense even though to fully realize it is inconceivable to me.

 

Most philosphies have some version of the formless spirit manifesting various gods etc. and supposedly by worshiping them one can back to the formless impersonal light themselves.

 

But these vaisnavas are saying something very different. They are teaching that yes that eternal formless spiritual effulgence exists but that beyond that if the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself in a personal form surrounded by unlimited fully spiritual worlds of umlimited variety.

 

That Brahman then is just the effulgence or Aura from Krsna, or Vishnu or Narayana (His names are unlimited)if you prefer.

 

I find this amazing and glading because the idea of keeping my eternal sense of self while at the same time realizing my oneness with God very much appeals to me.

 

 

The books I have read said that LALITHAMBIKA is the supreme.

Now great people like Srila Prabhupäda says that Krishna is supreme .

I am totally confused.

 

 

We are all confused. We have forgotten God and even our own identities. I have never heard of Lalithambika. I live in the USA and know little of all these various things as the vedas are so amazingly vast. perhaps you could explain something of her to me.

 

The main point is that we ultimatly accept Krsna as the one Supreme but we see everyone else in direct relationship to Him. So we needn't reject anyone really we just need to learn how they relate to Krsna.

 

 

Please tell me whether my concept is true or not.

I am very much attached to Her that I get my eyes filled with tear when I hear Her praise or songs.

Is it fair for me to discard my current beliefs?

 

 

As before it is not that Prabhupada wants us to give up something really its more a matter of accepting Krsna.

 

There is an account of one great devotee of Lord Rama who couldnot give up Rama for Krsna, His love for Rama was so strong, and Lord Caitanya was greatly pleased by this. So just concentrate on learning about Krsna from Prabhupada and gradually things will become clearer and clearer.

 

The thing I am learning is that everyone of every belief system or even no belief system can chant Hare Krsna. The Hare Krsna mantra is for everyone without discrimination. So if you are not chanting Hare Krsna already please add it to your practice without delay.

 

Hare Krsna

[Raghavan]

You dont have to stop worshipping Goddess Lalithambika whose thousand names as Lalitha Sahasranaama was originally told to Sage Agasthya by Hayagriva (Vishnu Incarnate). Actually Lalithambika or Durga or Parvathi or Shakthi is nothing by the material energy of Lord Sriman Narayana and they are inseperable. Sage Agasthya while meditating on Lord was given Darshan and when Agasthya prayed for happiness of the people, He was given the Lalitha Sahasranama and asked to spread so that who ever chants it will be rid of all troubles and also finally the soul gets purified and reach Lord. Actually all the Gopikaas were themselves praying to Durga Devi in the form of Kathyayani Devi to marry Sree Krishna. In Ramayana when Rama was searing for Neelkamal to offer Shree Durga, He could not find the last 100th one and hence He decided to offer His own eye ball as it resembled neelkamal (Lotus eyes). When He pointed His arrow on His eyes to remove the eye ball, Shree Durga appeared in front of Him with blood in Her eyes and said, "why you are hurting me, Are we different". Ram did thhis primarily for the world to know that He and His energy are non different. His material energy gives form and structure and she control the Universe while She by Berself is controlled although nondifferent by Lord. That is why even to destroy the "Asura" Lord Narayana appears a Mohini and entyce Shiva, out of which Ayyappan was born and He is considered as the third son of Shiva-Parvathi next to Ganesha and Subramanya swamy. Vigneshwara always holds the foot of Govinda and thats why whoever prays to Vigneshwara first before starting anything, they will be blessed. Subramanya Swamy or Karthikeya is again nothing but the Warrior form of Sree Krishna or Shree Hari (See Baghwath Gita (9th and 10th chapter) to destroy the Asuras.

There is nothing as Superior God or inferior God. There is only one God and He is Shree Hari-Krishna-Sreeman Narayana as worshipped in different names. All forms basically emanate from Him as per Bhagwat Purana and Bhagwatgita. His female energies are two. One is spiritual who is Sree Lakshmi when He is Narayana or Shri Hari, She is Shree Radhe when He is Sree Krishna and the other is material who is Boomadevi. When He is Shiva, she is Durga or Pravathi to control the world. Many people think that only asuras pray to Shiva or Kali or Durga, but actually in reality until Dwapara Yuga, everybody used to pray to Shiva and Durga because they are known to remove our evil desires and make us totally detached and so the soul can reach Lord finally. The concept of Vaishnavism and saivism appeared only in Kaliyuga and all this confusion of superior and inferior without proper understanding came during this period only.

 

[theist]

Thank you Raghavan. That will be good news for Kameshi that she need feel no pressure to abandon her heart felt feelings in order to chant Hare Krsna.

 

I also learned something new. I get so confused with different names for different manifestations. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Hare Krsna

[kameshi]

I am thankful that you people take care to clarify our doubts.

 

You havent heard of the name Lalitha devi,and so did I till i read the book Lalithasahasranamam(with definitions of names and Bhalasruti).Till then I would call Her Parvati or KaaliMaa.By reading that book,I came to know that whatever names of Devi I knew till then were Her's.Because I could find all those names in the Sahasranama (eg:Durga,MahaKaali,Parvati,Bhavani,Kathyayani....).

 

Previously I didnt like the personality of Lord Krishna,but now I agree that I feel that Lord Krishna and Lalithambika are the same.(Her 838th name in the Sahasranama is MUKUNDA which literaly means 'the one who gives mukti' and hence points to Lord Krishna,since He is the one to give Moksha,and this clearly says that She is Krishna Himself.)

 

You told me to tell about Godess Lalitha Devi.

But since the book I read was in Malayalam, I will have to

translate the ideas into English before I speak to someone.Even if I tell,no one will believe.

Even my family members dont agree with the things explicitly said in the book.

They are traditional Siva devotees and think that my Devi is just a Godess who is used in black magics, since most Tantras of Devi give unlimited power to the doer and he greedily exploits Her powers.There are so many mantriks who do bad karmas on the name of Devi.

Hence I fear you people will laugh at me if I am to tell all about Devi.

Better it be hidden in my mind only.

I cant bear any one blasphemy Her(especially muslims) who may read all those.

 

[anadi]

 

Please let me know which one is the correct way to reach the ultimate.

[Guest guest]

Theist-You said the jiva is feminine, that is not really accurate. The jiva is called sakti so in that sense the jiva is given a feminine term, but that should not be mistaken to be a gender based appellation. Jiva's can be male or female in their nitya swarupa.

 

As for Kameshi, Lalitha or Devi is considered by Gaudiya vaisnavas to be a female apsect of Vishnu or Krishna. She is non different from them, but in Gaudiya siddhanta she is manifest in Vaikuntha as Sita, Laksmi, Radha, etc. It is in the material world where God takes the persona of Devi, She is considered to be in charge of the jivas within the material realm. The material world is ruled over by Devi and is known as Devi Dhama.

 

Shakta's such as yourself worship Devi as the Supreme Goddess, as do we. Although the difference is that in the Spiritual Vaikuntha planets Devi is manifest as Radha Krishna, Sita Rama, Laksmi Narayana etc. The Vaikuntha planetsare the realm of Lila, eternal pastimes of reciprocal love between Godhead and the jivas. According to your taste when you attain Moksa and are elevated to the Vaikuntha realm you will go to the Loka of your destiny. Devi as the sole supreme Goddess exists only in the Material realm. In the Brahma-Samhita the material world is described as the realm where jiva's are enjoying and suffering the results of their Karma. Devi is in charge of all jiva's and their Karmic destiny in the material world, Her job is to arrange for the liberation of all jiva's through the Karmic function which she presides over.

 

In Vaikuntha or in the pastimes of Bhagavan in the material world, Devi is manifest as Male and Female. So yes she is Krishna but as an aspect of Krishna, Her function is only applicable as Devi, in the material realm. In Vaikuntha She exists in Her eternal spiritual forms. The Gaudiya's teach that the highest and fullest expression of Devi is in Radha Krishna's pastimes in Goloka.

[theist]

 

Theist-You said the jiva is feminine, that is not really accurate. The jiva is called sakti so in that sense the jiva is given a feminine term, but that should not be mistaken to be a gender based appellation. Jiva's can be male or female in their nitya swarupa.

 

 

Thanks, I know. I was thinking in terms of one Dominator, one Enjoyer and all the rest enjoyed.

 

The point is to spread the mantra. Finer points of philosophy get be added on in time.

[kameshi]

Thanks, Raghavan,

The same thing I wanted to know.

I knew that LalithaSahasranama was told to sage Agasthya by Lord MahaVishnu in the form of Hayagreeva Rishi.

In the Hayagreevagasthya Samvadam as seen in the Lalithopakhyanam,in the Brahmandapurana,it is given that at first Lord Hayagreeva told Agastya all about Lalitha Devi,Her magnificient story of Her avatar and Her Pattabhisheka then Bhandasuravadha then about Her place named Sreepuram then Her mantra named SreeVidya Mantra(Which is the Greatest of all mantra and is hidden in the Vedas. Lord Siva is its Upaasak.It is revealed only to eligible persons since its powers may be misused.It is a boon to me that I know this mantra in this Janma and I hope I will never be born again) and then about Her chakra named SreeChakra,and about Her Yoginis(there are 64 crore Yoginis named Mandrini,Dandini,......)

But He didnt dare to tell Sahasranama at first since it was the most secret one.But Agasthya insisted for telling the Sahasranama to Him.And then only Hayagreeva told Him that.

Agasthya was restricted not to give this great Sahasranama to cruelpersons,or non-believers as it gives immediate results.

The remaining portions I was about to tell may be too hard for people to believe .So I am not writing that.If anyone wants to know more about Sahasranama, I will tell.I know something about Her about Her Sahasranama and Her Mantra which just accounts to a drop of water from the ocean of Knowledge about Her.I am interested in speaking about Her to someone.

Thanks for reading.

[kameshi]

I read something about Mahabhava when I read the Lifestory of Godess Amritanadamayi Devi(now living in Kerala).

Radha Devi has defeated all the sages and devotees in Her Devotion to Lord Krishna as seen in their lovestory.

 

[Guest guest]

"The remaining portions I was about to tell may be too hard for people to believe .So I am not writing that.If anyone wants to know more about Sahasranama, I will tell.I know something about Her about Her Sahasranama and Her Mantra which just accounts to a drop of water from the ocean of Knowledge about Her.I am interested in speaking about Her to someone."

 

Please do share with all of us! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Raghavan]

Hi kameshi

I am an ardent Devotee of Sree Radhe-Krishna and Shree Shivashakthi-Rupini-Lalithambika. I would like to discuss certain things about Sree Vidhya Maha Mantra. My email id is manimkm@

Please write to me.

Thanks

Raghavan

[Guest guest]

"I dont know much about Vaishnavism.

I believe in female God.

Please tell me whether Krishna is the only way we should worship or we can consider other forms also as the Supreme being?

 

By reading the mails in this forum I have the feeling that only Vaishnavites are Hindus.

I find Saivism and Mother Shakti(Part of Shaivism) is always humiliated.

Please let me know which one is the correct way to reach the ultimate."

 

I am sure your God will be happy with you if you start your journey to her than think about if he is a she or a he, who cares? God is God and God is supreme.