Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Is Lord Chaitanya Greater than Krsna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 difficult to answer with our simplistic and mundane minds and language/understanding. in a sense - yes, if it is true that CMP is a "mixture" of Krsna and Radha. And in another sense no - CMP is considered identical to Krsna in some perspectives. Having thought about whilst i tye, its actually a good and valid question. Can anyone more senior than me answer, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Haribol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Actually, Caitanya is Krishna. He has radha's bhav and kanti, but that is the only difference. He is not Radha-Krishna combo. Gadadhara is Radha without Radha bhav (Mahaprabhu had Radha's bhav- is "borrowing" it, really) --- Krishna had Radha inside of Him just as much as Caitanya does. Because the lord is Isvara, and the shakti emenates from Him. He is the source of shakti. So Krishna is never incomplete because He is never without shakti (even if in leela they are sometimes separate, actually He always has Her with Him). ~vanamali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 vanamali here again- btw i was attempting to explain from gaudiya point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 yes he's greater than krsna because he's radha and krsna together, the enjoyer who attempts to understand the pleasure of the servant... but also krsna is radha and krsna together,because radharani is His internal potency... so.... hare krishna!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Since Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to preach devotion to Krishna. Bhagavan Sri Krishna cannot be considered lesser compared to Mahaprabhu. jaya sri krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 read better.. i agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Muralidhar das: Srila Guru Maharaj, I have heard that Krishna is doing Gaura-seva. Is that right? Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Krishna is serving Gauranga? Krishna is serving Gauranga? Yes we can think that Krishna is charmed by his own parallel existence of Gauranga. He is charmed because Gauranga means Krishna and Radha. Gauranga is combination of Radha and Krishna, so that is more. And Gauranga is prepared to distribute the Krishna-prema to one and all. Extending the market of the sale, extending the market for the distribution of divine love. Magnanimous Krishna. When Krishna comes in the mood of Radha, both combined, comes to distribute their inner wealth to one and all to the public for their benefit, that Krishna is Gauranga; not only Krishna, Krishna in the mood of Radha engaged in the distribution of his own wealth to the outside people. So for us Krishna is more valuable when He is Gauranga because there we get our heart's satisfaction. And in that Gauranga is higher than Krishna. Gaura-lila. Krishna engaged in distributing Himself causelessly to the others. That is higher for us. And independent of our thinking because both combined Radha-Krishna. So they are one. In Vrindavan-lila they became two, divided. And again in Gaura-lila they are both combined. Eternal, always existing, in two moods, one combined and one different. Half and half. For their lila, pastimes. One thing divided, then the whole comes into one and becomes Gauranga, not brahma (nirvisesh brahma). According to the jnanis the whole (sakti-saktiman), the potency and the owner of the potency combined, the jnanis say, when combined then it is non-differentiated brahma. But to us that is not non-differentiated brahma, that (whole) becomes Gauranga searching Himself - sahajana prayojana vivarjana. When one Radha-Krishna the potency and the owner of the potency combine together in one whole absolute then He is searching Himself. He is feeling Himself, searching Himself, and in that way He is distributing Himself to others. In prema dham deva stotram I have got: atma-siddha-savalila-purna-sakhya-laksanam svanubhava-matta-nrtya-kirttanatma-vantanam The sign of the absolute perfect being, the full Absolute, will be this, that He is dancing because He is overjoyed in his inner satisfaction. He is satisfied with Himself, and He has nothing to search for, to find His satisfaction outside, and He will dance. The dancing attitude is showing that He is full in Himself. And the kirttan, the chanting, that is His distributing that joy to others. That we find in Gauranga. His dancing, that is because He is full in Himself, and the kirttan, the chanting - He is distributing that joy. This is self-evident and this is the sign of the fullest source of the highest absolute, kirttanadvayaika, and that is mentioned in one stanza in prema dhama deva stotram, purna sakha laksanam. The satisfaction, the anandam, ecstasy, in its fullest conception, will have such sign, such symptom - what? That He is dancing in joy with happiness arising within Himself. He is full in Himself and He is chanting, He is giving Himself out to the environment. That should be the highest ideal of the absolute happiness. And that we find in Gauranga. Radha Krishna. Do you follow? I tried to express this idea in that stanza in Prema Dhama Deva Stotram, and Svarupa Damodara says: radha krishna pranaya vikriti hladini sakti CC1.1.5 Who is Radharani? She is the love of Krishna in a particular form. The object of love of Krishna. So there one is Krishna, and the love the affection for Krishna is appearing in a particular form (Sri Radha). So it belongs together. Krishna is one, one. But still for the pastimes in Dvarapa-yuga They became divided in Vrindavan-lila and became two parties (Radha and Krishna), one predominating (Krishna) and that predominated moiety (Sri Radha). They parted and display in distinct forms with their own paraphernalia and began their pastimes in different way, their play. And again they come together, combine together, and become Gauranga. And He began to distribute Himself to the public. He is saying, "Automatically by nature, come take me, I am yours". He comes in the mood of Radharani. Their own common treasure they began to loot. They allowed themselves to be looted. Both the parties, they began to be looted by the public. Take this. Their treasure, they allowed their treasure to be looted. Both combined ... combined give affection... coming as Gauranga. So Gauranga is our greater shelter. yatha yatha gaura padaravinde vindeta bhaktim krta punya-rasih tatha tathotsarpati hrdy akasmat radha padambhoja sudhambhurasih "As much as you surrender to the lotus feet of Sri Gauranga, you'll find yourself safely situated in the service of Radha-Govinda. Don't try to approach Radha-Govinda directly; if you do, there may be some difficulty. But the lotus feet of Sri Gauranga will take you there safely." If you can secure a card admission card from Gauranga, you will find you are automatically that you are present in the harem of Krishna. You are in the group of Radharani. So He is increasing the circle Himself. Admission card is issued from here. And you are instructed in the confidential circle of service there. So Nityananda Prabhu tried His best: "Anyhow you can, connect yourself with Gauranga. Oh fallen souls, my friends, connect yourself with Gauranga. It is very easy for you. For fallen souls it is very easy to make connection with Gauranga, and then automatically everything will come unexpectedly to you, for your inner heart's satisfaction. Any way you can, connect yourself!" From door to door he came past. "Have a connection with Gauranga, have a connection with Gauranga and you will be richest of the rich." Door to door Nityananda Prabhu wandered. bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga laha gauranga nama yei jana gauranga bhaje, sei amara pranan He began to roll on the doorstep of the customers, 'Take Gauranga take Gauranga' with tears in his eyes, that golden body began to roll on the door of so many customers. Accept Gauranga. Take Gauranga. You don't know what is passing away from your door, accept Gauranga. This is Nityananda. nitaiyer karuna habe braje radha krishna pabe Everything will be in your fist. Try to have the grace of Nityananda. He can give Gauranga. And if you get Gauranga you have got everything. The consent of both the parties, Radha-Krishna. Not only the sound of this message we must receive but also the meaning. The meaning, thereby we are to follow, try to follow. What is meant by these sounds. From the external side not to consider this statement of Nityananda Prabhu, but the substance within the statement, we are to search for that. We are to search for the meaning. The real meaning, the mark, what does it mean? The substance, brahma jijnasa and krishnanusandhana: search for reality the beautiful. Dive deep. Dive. Die to Live, not only here in the surface of your sensual experience, you are to dive, dive deep in to the reality. adau sraddha tathau sadhu sanga bhajana kriya anartha nivritti nistha ruci asakti bhava, then prema. So many stages we are to pass through to dive deep into the reality. So many superficial covers, so many stages of our mental covers we are to pass through and then we are to come in touch of the reality. Die to live. So our state and our progress, our progressive state, that was the search; that we are to pass through, all these covers. And then enter into the substantial world. Adau sraddha, first faith; then sadhu sanga, then keeping company with those aryans, sadhu sanga. bhajana kriya then as they advise us to go and discharge those duties. Cultivation culture to hear to speak to receive to distribute and so many others, recollection and serving attitude, then anartha nivritti the ulterior demands of our superficial nature they will disappear, they will disappear. Then nistha, a continuos aspiration for Krishna for the inner substance. Continuous without any interuption by any superficial demand, nistha, ruci then taste will be created for that. Before that the taste cannot be relied on. But when after continuous attempt for the truth the taste will come that is reliable genuine taste. Then that will increase into asakti, when we can't tolerate any separation from that taste of particular, that truth,asakti. Then bhava, superior? connection with reality. Then prema, when we enter into the reality, and then the positive development: snehaman pramoya radha kunda bhava mahabhaya Positive participation into reality, we create so many things in our minds. The process of positive progess is there. It is not imagination but the process of elimination. The progressive path involves elimination and acceptance. It is there. Then what is real to us at present, the sense experience world, that world will evaporate and we shall find ourselves in the midst of the inner world, like a yogi, like a deep scientific scholar engaged in research for getting knowledge about the world. But that is very meagre example more deep and interest we will find there. Rather it is like the forgetfulness of the scholar who becomes totally absorbed in his study. We are living in the covering over the surface (the superficial layer that covers reality). The world we are living in, we are experiencing misleading things, because we are living only in the (superficial) cover. But what is the inner substance of reality we do not care to know, when we are absorbed in illusion. And that reality, we are to go towards reality. Here, it is the cover floating on our consciousness. But leaving the cover we shall try to enter into deep consciousness. A consciousness! You leave the experience of this world of sense experience, thinking "I don't like this, I want to go deeper'. We are to enter into our own consciousness. Reality, it is a part of our own consciousness. It is a part of the whole consciousness. So we are to tackle the extensive consciousness and we are a part of that. Subjective exploitation, not in the objective side - exploiting nature. Subjective consciousness: we shall have to enter into the causal truth. Gradually we shall find these things. The source of knowledge we are to tackle. We are to enter into the fountain from where the water is oozing. Water is coming outside through the fountain. We are to enter into the fountain to understand what type of water it is, and how it is flowing. In what way. Enter into the source of knowledge to find out wherefrom it comes. Against the current that is flowing towards material life, we are to move against that current. And what is the product of the current just floating on our senses? That feeling we feel on the surface with our senses is reactionary (for every action there is a reaction). So we are to enter into the source to have proper exploitation with the help of the agents there. Atma, paramatma then bhagavan conception - bhajaniya. Ultimately we shall find that we are to serve the wonderful substance of ecstasy, and if we can engage ourselves in slavery to that Higher Reality, we shall find our fortune is fulfilled. Such high high kind of pleasure is there, satisfaction is there. Anyhow, neglectfully disconnecting with the material life and connecting with the Higher world, if we get with that then we shall think all our fulfillment, our final fulfillment, we have got. A slight connection of that treasure, the source of all knowledge and all ecstasy, will be for our benefit. Subjective enquiry, concsious enquiry, going against the mundane current, is our path. We shall have to go forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 While Chaitanya is worshipped only by a sect of people and not all, and He is considered certainly as a Guru like Ramanuja or Madwa while Sree Krishna is worshipped for several thousands of years universally as Lord Himself. Chaitanya could be an Avatar of Krishna as how a devotee should be and this does not mean Sree Krishna is lesser than HIM. NOne of the avathars of Shri Hari are as equally powerful and great as Sree Krishna, because Sree Krishna alone is Poornavathara form. Many words out of Love and devotion towards Lord Chaitanya may have arisen, but none can equate Him to Lord Shree Krishna in His potency. Chaitanya by HImself is again devotee of Lord Radhe-Krishna and He is not superior to Lord. Sorry If I have hurt anyone, but fact is fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I have to question our use of terms like greater and superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 There can be only one Superior and one Greatest. That is Shri Hari-Naryana-Sree Krishna..; All His avathars and forms appearing at different times are not equal to Him in their potency. Raghavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hare Krishna All His avathars and forms appearing at different times are not equal to Him in their potency. No, no they are equal; they are the same personality. The only difference is how much is "visible" in the mundane sense. There is no question of superior and inferior; this only arises when we talk from the rasa point of view and so we must be careful in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Chaitanya Charitamrta, Adi, Chapter Eight by Srila Kaviraj Goswami vande caitanya-devam tam bhagavantam yad-icchaya prasabham nartyate citram lekha-range jado 'py ayam I offer my respects to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose desire I have become like a dancing dog and, although I am a fool, I have suddenly taken to the writing of Sri Chaitanya-Charitamrta. jaya jaya sri-krsna-caitanya gauracandra jaya jaya paramananda jaya nityananda Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is known as Gaurasundara. I also offer my respectful obeisances unto Nityananda Prabhu, who is always very joyful. jaya jayadvaita acarya krpamaya jaya jaya gadadhara pandita mahasaya Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Advaita Acharyya, who is very merciful, and also to that great personality Gadadhara Pandita, the learned scholar. jaya jaya srivasadi yata bhakta-gana pranata ha-iya vandon sabara carana Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Srivasa Thakura and all other devotees of the Lord. I fall down to offer them respect. I worship their lotus feet. muka kavitva kare yan-sabara smarane pangu giri langhe, andha dekhe tara-gane By remembering the lotus feet of the Panca-tattva a dumb man can become a poet, a lame man can cross mountains and a blind man can see stars in the sky. e-saba na mane yei pandita sakala ta-sabara vidya-patha bheka-kolahala The education cultivated by so-called learned scholars who do not believe these statements of Sri Chaitanya-Charitamrta is like the tumultuous croaking of frogs. ei saba na mane yeba kare krsna-bhakti krsna-krpa nahi tare, nahi tara gati One who does not accept the glories of the Panca-tattva but still makes a show of devotional service to Krishna can never achieve the mercy of Krishna or advance to the ultimate goal. purve yaiche jarasandha-adi raja-gana veda-dharma kari' kare visnura pujana Formerly kings like Jarasandha (the father-in-law of Kamsa) strictly followed the Vedic rituals, thus worshiping Lord Vishnu. krsna nahi mane, tate daitya kari' mani caitanya na manile taiche daitya tare jani One who does not accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is certainly a demon. Similarly, anyone who rejects Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as Krishna, the same Supreme Lord, is also to be considered a demon. more na manile saba loka habe nasa ithi lagi' krpardra prabhu karila sannyasa Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu thought, "Unless people accept Me they will all be destroyed." Thus the merciful Lord accepted the sannyasa order. sannyasi-buddhye more karibe namaskara tathapi khandibe duhkha, paibe nistara If a person offers obeisances to Me, even due to accepting Me only as an ordinary sannyasi, his material distresses will diminish, and he will ultimately get liberation. hena krpamaya caitanya na bhaje yei jana sarvottama ha-ileo tare asure ganana One who does not show respect unto this merciful Lord, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, or does not worship Him should be considered a demon, even if he is very exalted in human society. ataeva punah kahon urdhva-bahu hana caitanya-nityananda bhaja kutarka chadiya Therefore I say again, lifting my arms: O fellow human beings, please worship Sri Chaitanya and Nityananda without false arguments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 In this "dream," too, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu revealed to Gopal Bhatta that He was in fact nondifferent from Shyamasundar, also known as Vrajendranandana, the original two armed form of Krishna, playing on His flute. He revealed this truth to Gopal Bhatta by appearing in this two-armed Krishna form and then transforming Himself back into His own form as Shri Chaitanya. SIX GOSWAMIS OF VRINDAVAN 2: Gopal Bhatta Goswami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 The Lord licks His toe to taste the nectar for which the devotees always aspire. Sometimes the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself wonders how much transcendental pleasure is within Himself, and in order to taste His own potency, He sometimes takes the position of tasting Himself. Lord Caitanya is Krsna Himself, but He appears as a devotee to taste the sweetness of the transcendental mellow in Himself which is tasted by Srimati Radharani, the greatest of all devotees. SB 3.33.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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