careful who you follow

[theist]

they may be leading you onto a stone boat.

 

 

SB 6.7.14: Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

why do I immediatelly think "Bush" here?

 

hey, theistji, are you having a change of heart? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[theist]

You think Bush because that is your conditioned response prabhu /images/graemlins/wink.gif. You are still reading too many leftist web sites.lol But that doesn't mean you are entirely wrong, but if my mind said Kerry, it would also not be wrong.

 

We can offer agreement or support to these worldly characters to the degree that they line up with the Lord's policies for this earth, no more.

[Guest guest]

No, its not bush at all. He is a simpleton with a jesus complex, he actually probably thinks he is doing the lords work.

 

The problem is the electorate. In a democracy, Srila Prabhupad mentions that fools elect the greatest fools to lead them. This is more the case here.

 

Politics is not the interest here, there is great distress caused by the materialist. This includes superficial religionists still in the comcept of false identification with the body as the self. As long as such folks have the keys to the kingdom, only turmoil will follow, only deep distress.

 

Kerry. bush. piuck yer poison. Next time, too, dean vs swarzenegger, all materialists. Any politician who crosses the line and speaks of spiritual values, boom. Luther king, malcolm x, these folks come to mind.

 

sadness, lotsa folks are dying because of materialism, but this is definition of materiaqlism, the illusion of death.

 

oh well, mo latah, gotta go home and sleep it off. haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

yes, Americans deserve the crooks they have for leaders. the only option is which one steals and cheats less...

 

I'm not getting into ANY of these stone boats. Supporting such leaders means taking partial responsibility for their sinful activities.

[Guest guest]

In a monarchy, the king takes full karma of the subjects. No hands get dirty by the innocent controlled who are sent to kill and die for the king.

 

Democracy is another animal. "By the people" means that the subjects of the controllers do have responsibility, therefore karma is not laid off entirely on the controller, because the controlled control the controller.

 

So, democracy is a heavy deal, and throw away votes, like the one I gave kerry two months ago, are very polluting.

 

Bush is a greater crook only because he has greater facility. Kerry would have caused many more deaths.

 

On another matter, republicans serve themselves WELL by bringing down their own. By impeaching Nixon, many republicans strengthened their party. Only Carter and clinton have held office since Nixon, and only carter resembled anything of Democratic standard. Clinton was a death penalty wielding republican rip-off who managed after decades to give both houses of congress to the GOP.

 

So I ask repiublicans to rise to the occasion and get rid of the fascists who have stolen your party. Get back to fiscal responsibility, less oppressive government, less global adventurism, etc. Make barry and nelson proud. They were not angels, but at least they were statesmen.

 

Demos are too perverted, controlled by abortionists and hedonists. A new party is needed, a liberal party of aloofness from the special voting blocs of special interests, like the Jews, gays, elitists. Dems will self destruct under Liberman, gephart, kerry and the likes.

 

Maybe dean will branch off, taking kicinich with him, along with other forward liberals really independent, grass root types who ring a bell with honest folks, if there are any honest amerikkkans left.

 

mahak

[AncientMariner]

Man I haven't even been paying attention to politics lately because the whole thing has just become so insane both Republicans and Democrats. I don't even hardly watch Fox News much anymore and I used to watch it 3-5 hours a day. Just been haning out in the bushes trying to chase the shadow of the blue guy. Everytime I think I have found Him he just disappears on me but its much more peaceful than trying to figure out who is the less bizarre Bush or Kerry. Btw I was reading some of your writing on the vaisnava board and you really have been writing some good things in regards to the whole fighting between different camps and schools of thought within Iskcon etc not that I have much to do with any of them. I just hate to see so much chaos in an organization that is meant to bring peace and hopefully if people listen to level headed people like yourself people will embrace each others diversity instead of fighting over it. Anyways well done!

 

"Mama, put my guns in the ground

I can't shoot them anymore.

That long black cloud is comin' down

I feel like I'm knockin on heaven's door."

[Guest guest]

Specially with your quote from the knower of the problems, per Srila Prabhupada. The song you sing is the best tune for mahamantra, and babhru, theist, and others will confirm.

 

Theres guns accross the river pointed at ya.

 

hare krsna, yo brah, mad mahax

[theist]

Yes it is a dark field of activities all around. I hope for the success of those politicans who have the most policies that line up with God conscious administration, but I don't consider myself a follower of any of them.

 

As far as being plugged into it I find myself getting to caught up in frustration and anger and wanting to kill them all for the way they are obviously exploiting us and the other common people of the world. But alas, /images/graemlins/smile.gif I am a powerless being. In the end I only go insane.

 

I cut of all TV service a couple months back, right after the election and feel sooo much better. I am searching for the best way to stay up on what is happening so I can react to it as it is part of my karma-yoga practice, while remaining as aloof as possible. The net helps.

 

It is just so hard to sift out the truth from a thousand talking heads all lying or spinning the facts 75% of the time.

 

75% Am I being too generous?

[Kulapavana]

"It is just so hard to sift out the truth from a thousand talking heads all lying or spinning the facts 75% of the time.

 

75% Am I being too generous? "

 

yes. it is more like 100%. I try to get a perspective from both sides of an issue to "neutralize" the unavoidable spins. the web helps a lot in sense of speed and access. I often go to particular net forums, where freaks and geeks of all sorts take apart the daily news, to get a perspective on the subject. you still have to sift out the garbage yourself, but the amount of information and variety of angles and perspectives cant be found anywhere else.

[theist]

I like to think of myself as an optimist.

 

For me it comes down to abortion. Most of the rest I can overlook.

[Kulapavana]

"For me it comes down to abortion. Most of the rest I can overlook."

 

thats how they get you... anyway, it is lip service only. they say they are for something - but dont do anything to change the situation. talk is cheap.

[Guest guest]

Both bush and hillary clinton spoke of abortion this week. Both wanted abortion to not be an issue, yet neither did anything.

 

Pro life has to include anti-war, otherwise, there is no value in rhetoric. As long as "collateral damage" can be used as an excuse for innocents to be brutalized by those who wield the weapons, colateral damage could also be used as an excuse for republicans who support the corporations, who all prescribe to ZPG (zero population growth, the brainchild of bf skinner, margaret sanger, and dr joseph mengela.) To appease the christian, these facsists will say and do anything, but the babies (amerikkkans and iraqis) die by our bloody materialistic cannibalism.

 

Abortion is my main issue as well. Clintons ideas, bottom line, result in fewer abortions than bush's destruction of middle class, social programs, etc. Statistics prove that abortion soared under reagan and bush I, and dropped off, with teen pregnancy, under clinton.

 

Anyway, dont take this letter as support for republicans with Jewish friends ( clinton dem/republicans).

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

"Abortion is my main issue as well. Clintons ideas, bottom line, result in fewer abortions than bush's destruction of middle class, social programs, etc. Statistics prove that abortion soared under reagan and bush I, and dropped off, with teen pregnancy, under clinton."

 

good point.

 

[theist]

Not really a good point, sorry. It was also the time when aids came roaring in and people were more cautious. With time that has slipped.

 

Anti-abortion is anti-war. Same with animal rights. Wars are just Durga dishing out the rewards for what has already been sown

 

Clinton vetoed the partial birth abortion ban twice.

 

Just like he doesn't deserve credit for the roaring economy. That was the dot com bubble.

 

Hilliary is simply posturing for 2008 with the usual Clintonspeak. Saying something to appeal to both sides.

[Kulapavana]

"Anti-abortion is anti-war"

 

time to put this into practice theistji!

[theist]

In what way would you suggest?

[Kulapavana]

last I remember you were very much pro war in Iraq.

[theist]

Rare to find anyone who is pro-war. It is easy to take the stance against the necessity of a war, especially the modern style where civilians are killed and injured. Some accept it as the lesser of two evils. In this case I am forced to accept it as the lesser of two evils.

 

But I think you misunderstood my statement. I see abortion and animal slaughter as direct causes of war. Most of the so-called anti war crowd eats meats daily and speaks out as pro-choice. You see the folly. They are the cause of the very thing they are against.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

lesser evil? over 100,000 civilians dead, cities in ruin, billions of dollars wasted and many, many more to come? over 15,000 Americans dead or seriously wounded (eliminated from the theatre of war)...for WHAT? you obviously make a very controversial judgement call here.

 

[Guest guest]

like gwb and his whole cow barbecues for the taliban on his ranch in the summer of 2000. And if percentages were accurately shown, the anti-war crowd are more inclined to be vegan than the militarist.

 

And, without even being slightly left here, speaking from more of a DDE/barry goldwater POV, the le4sser of two evils was leaving saddam where he was. Even Bush senoir agrees with me here. The sunnis are normally moderate (but not any more, thanx to the idiot-in-chief) whereas the shiites who gladly voted for their imams will carry out their off3ensive fanaticism in Iraq.

 

GWB is the ayatollah Khomenis greatest ally. He got rid of the stalinist who kept fanatical islamism from spreading out. So now those who voted the shiite or kurdish tickets can have their women hide neath the hoods, buthcer them to protect their virginity.

 

I do agree that many who are anti war are fools. Im not anti war, either, because that is like being anti volcano or anti tsunami. War is where we live, and is a creation of our Guru, Lord Brahma. A tool that humans use to be mortal, thus removing the burden the Earth Planet faces if they live too long.

 

I just hate stupid, unnecessary, impractical, and useless wars that have no military science involved. I hate wars ordered by traitorous deserters and cowards whose own sons will never fight there, nor ever got involved when they had the chance. I hate those who order our children off to war, and when they get back all shot up and deformed and insane, warehouse them and shackle them, and hope that their families will quit visiting soon.

 

Of course, i read Johnny got his gun by dalton trumbo, so I guess that makes me a commie pinko leftwinger. No, in 1969, I spent my youth smokin dope and visiting with the viet vets after their loved ones quit coming. The chicken hawks should spend time with those without faces, limbs and minds before they brazenly send them to kill a dictator who actually really needs to be there to keep the balance of power, like all poly scientists fully know.

 

But bush and his gang of jesus wannabes think poly sci is from the devil, that jesus will see us through the return of the ottoman empire and the bronze statues of GW replacing saddam as the brutal leader of akkacia.

 

The lesser of two evils is to stay with what works. Saddam was powerless to invade, yet made Iran stay in its place, mellowed Israel, even gave Syria cause for alarm. Now hes gone, so the holy war is our blood thirst feast for the next 50 or so ye4ars.

 

 

mudmon

[theist]

Yeah. I have no desire to repeat this conversation.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

And I hope you dont think my post above was anyway directed at you, as if I hold you responsible for your judgemnent call.

 

We are all victims of our education and our environment, and our judgement calls come from this influence. Krsna consciousness is outside these calls, which is why we can respectfully disagree with the issues, even as dire as they are.

 

Ive always tripped out on the loving relationship between Lord Balarama and Duryodhana. The politics between the kauravas and pandavas se4parated (quite literally, I might add) the entire world, yet the players were individuals with individual relationships with devotees as well as whom they were all devoted too.

 

Lord Balarama was ready to kill Arjuna when he stole away Srimati Subhadra for his wife. There was no love lost between these two, yet we must assume that there is no discrepancy in the absolute loving relationships between devotees and the supreme lord.

 

Anyway, I dont want to rehash on who stands where on the issues. I make my points without regard for those who agree or disagree, the poiunts stand alone. Every day, I am there in that holocaust without end with my son, who is guarduiing useless and destructive oil rigs in the gulf. Hes ready to give his life for his country (not mine, Im with the jefferson Airplane on that one, Id rather have my country die for me). So I demand that the wor lords in DC be pros like my son is, devise a proper and just way to end the suffering. Removing saddam has not done this for the degree of suffering has increased tenfold since he was ran in. The degree of suffering of the bright young faces of folkks like my son, whose young wives have to have the marines show up at her door with a folded flag, or worse, tell her that her hubby is a vege with no more face, that the children should never look at him again.

 

I demand DC punks to get a plan and get off their phony jesus trip, because jesus does not recognize such fools.

 

My hero in this war is the father who grabbed the can of gas when the marines showed up at his door and doused himself and the vehicle driven by the marines. Suicide is a bummer, but the heroism in such a show cannot be overlookede.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

yes, all those supporting the war should go and fight it themselves, or (if too old) send their child to do it for them. starting with Bush... it is far too easy to be generous with other people's blood.

[AncientMariner]

I gotta admit it would be truely amazing if John Kerry and George Bush went over and fought the war they both support. I have flip flopped more than Bill Clinton and John Kerry trying to figure out what the meaning of the word "is" is when it comes to the War in Iraq. At first I figured it was justified because even the Bhagavad Gita says that plunderers of wealth and rapers of other peoples women should be immediately killed. That being said the leaders really should take part in the wars they fight and also the highly esteemed and generally universally respected conservative Pat Buchanan eloquently voiced his opposition to the war calling it one of the worst foreign policy disasters in the history of the US. Given my great respect for Pat Buchanan I had to rethink my stand on the war. I apologize if I have been insensitive to anyone's loss as a result of this war and now I hope we can all come together both democrats and republicans and pray for a peaceful resolution to this conflict.