careful who you follow

[Kulapavana]

it takes courage to admit your own errors. you have my respect, prabhu.

 

a person interested primarily in the welfare of his country will have no problem admitting his own errors and correcting them as required, even if it hurts his pride. but a thief will just keep on telling lies as he keeps on stealing... a crook can't handle the truth /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Even in the early days of vietnam, even during the horrible carnage, there were peace talks going on. Enemies engaged in negotiation. Without active attempts at resolution, there is no end.

 

The sunnis have to be included, the baathists have to be included. But what we have is the kurds who answer to no one, and the shiites, who are in Irans camp fully (and probably much more aligned with al qaida than any other group anywhere) ready to take over, and begin a bosnia type cleansing civil war for decades, with our boys and girls right in the middle.

 

But the neo cons have no war plan, they just want their bases to run the oil and business interests.

 

There is a severe problem with americans as well. We have linked capitalism with democracy, which nullifies both systems, just as hard line totalitarian communism destroyed all good aspects of socialism.

 

Iraq is not america. Just like Vietnam lived communism thousands of years before karl marx dreamed up his brand of atheism, Iraq and other middle easterners live under monarchy, which is better than democracy where fools elect the biggest fools to lead them. Unless america recognizes diversity of peoples that many systems can co-exist, all is lost. Without negotiations, there is just slaughter. Sons and daughters less than ten years of age will grab the weapons of their slaughtered parents, just as Ariel Sharon is totally responsible for creating the Abu Nidal terrorists in the eighties by his wanton slaughter of unarmed refugees.

 

What we really need is someone like jimmy carter, one who recognizes validity in other political points of view. No more idiots like reagan, self-serving idiots like clinton and kerry, no more demagogues like the hitler supporting bush clan. (Or is denial still there that the grandfather bush did business with german industry which produced the weaponry that killed allied troops, and even got convicted of the crimes).

 

Where are the "cease fires", where are the ambassadors of the factions? Where are american statesmen, even if we have to settle with one-worlders like kissinger, at least they talked, and Vietnam ENDED, there is PEACE there now.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

"The sunnis have to be included, the baathists have to be included. But what we have is the kurds who answer to no one, and the shiites, who are in Irans camp fully (and probably much more aligned with al qaida than any other group anywhere) ready to take over, and begin a bosnia type cleansing civil war for decades, with our boys and girls right in the middle."

 

Except they are the ones who were torturing the Shia'ites for all these years and are trying to start a civil war along with Al Qaida. The Shia are not the same as in Iran. They don't believe in a theocracy for one thing.

 

[Guest guest]

I agree, theist, that the shiites are different. The point is, Iraq is a diverse population, which probably should be three nations, kurds to the north, shiites to the south, and sunnis in bhagdad. Im encouraged that some who were elected accept that the insurgency must be brought in to the forming of the nation, something the US will not allow.

 

But US allowance must not be allowed. The US has no say in another nations set-up. Iraq is not the 51st state, it is sovereign, and if they want us out, we should leave, and now.

 

All the butchering is cause and effect, and should not be used as a guage for anything. Those who ended up as leaders of Israel Nation were initially butchering terrorists with the blood of british school children on their hands. Menachim Begin is no less of a terrorist than Arafat. The butchering business has always been there. But in order for peace to break out, there has to be forgiveness for acts of war, otherwise, the war goes on forever. It is not unilateral forgiveness that is called for, for all sides have victims as well as perps of terrorism. For the children that had to pull the carcasses of their family members from the rubble of our decision to bomb their cities into submission, the US is the enemy, always and forever. Perhaps, we can be allies in the future, but the price is that we accept their independence, their soverignty, and not be the easy targets for unfulfilled revenge.

 

But all Im speaking of here depends on the truthfulness of our govt to begin with, which is doubtful. Our motives have always been different. We invaded, not with a soverign Iraq in mind, but as a place to set up huge military bases to push our capital;ism/democracy around.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

The adminestration has been saying all long that after the elction if asked to leave the US would. Instead the Iraq's asked the US to stay until they could handle the terrorist themselves.

 

I would love to see the US with a large base there but I don't think it will happen.

 

Don't so easily look past the huge turn out in that election. Those people braved death to vote. One polling place was attacked by a suicide bomber. Two hours later that very spot was once again filled to overflow capacity with people willing to vote.

 

I hope in your zeal to attack Bush you aren't overlooking the common Iraqi's and their desire to be freer then they have been.

 

Now I would like to see even more support for the brave opposition in Iran who are trying to kick the Imams and the Full'a'Bullahs out of power in Iran before that country needs to be attacked. The Iranians especially the young want change and we should help them in everyway. Otherwise Iran MUST be bombed before they develop Nukes.

 

These are not pleasant times but the hard realities that are being forced upon us.

[Kulapavana]

"Don't so easily look past the huge turn out in that election. Those people braved death to vote"

 

yes, they also came because they dont want US puppets to have ALL the power in Iraq. the hatred for US is on BOTH sides of the election debate.

 

"Iran MUST be bombed before they develop Nukes"

 

LOL! you are clueless indeed... another thereat to Israel solved with US money and blood?

 

the only country in the "axis of evil" that is even a most remote threat to US, North Korea, was never bombed during their pre-nuke years, and will certainly NOT be bombed now. so, why Iraq and Iran? look at the map, genius...

[theist]

 

yes, they also came because they dont want US puppets to have ALL the power in Iraq. the hatred for US is on BOTH sides of the election debate.

 

 

I see it in you by your projecting it on to everything you see.

 

 

LOL! you are clueless indeed... another thereat to Israel solved with US money and blood?

 

 

I know you are the self proclaimed ksatriya and must therefire know all the answers butI am sure you must realize the Isreal also has nukes and would instantly retaliate. The resulting chain reaction would start WW3

 

 

the only country in the "axis of evil" that is even a most remote threat to US, North Korea, was never bombed during their pre-nuke years, and will certainly NOT be bombed now. so, why Iraq and Iran? look at the map, genius...

 

 

They should have had their test sites bombed before they developed nukes. But those were the Clinton years and instead he made a deal with NK that they would suspend testing and development and in exchange the US would give them energy and food. Clinton and his Sec. of Defense? Madeoline Not-so-Bright worked that one out.

 

 

Of course we see they developed one anyway and now stand in a postion to blackmail their neighbors. It attacked they would have to be instantly immobolized on the first strike or they would nuke Soeul first thing and then invade as a second thing. You did know they were amassed at the border already, right?

 

Reminds me of that goof John Kerry who during a debate with Bush said we should offer Iran the same deal as Clinton offered NK.

 

No the only option is for them to stop development and allow constant unrestrained inspections or their facilities must be bombed.

[Kulapavana]

of course you believe in the fairytale that Iran and Iraq are a threat to US... and Saddam had all these WMDs pointed at US...oh, sure... LOL!

 

"but I am sure you must realize the Isreal also has nukes and would instantly retaliate"

 

so why not bomb or disarm THEM? enemies must have similar power, otherwise one side will be tempted to strike. Iran wants nuclear weapons as a deterrent, mainly to protect itself from Israel, and I do not find that surprising.

 

"No the only option is for them to stop development and allow constant unrestrained inspections or their facilities must be bombed."

 

and how many American lives are you willing to expend to protect Israel? and how many billions of US taxpayer dollars are you willing to waste?

 

[theist]

 

so why not bomb or disarm THEM? enemies must have similar power, otherwise one side will be tempted to strike. Iran wants nuclear weapons as a deterrent, mainly to protect itself from Israel, and I do not find that surprising.

[Kulapavana]

yes. it ends here because we have very different visions of the world. to me, US and Israel have no high moral ground and no God-given mandate to screw other countries as they see fit. I'm not blind to the evils they create and support. to me, they must be judged just like any other country. I get involved in issues like that because my tax money goes towards killing other people, supposedly to keep me safe. I have a social and moral obligation to protest what I see as lies and abuses done "in my name". otherwise I will be held responsible for these activities in the court of Yamaraja. such is the Law of Manu.

[Kulapavana]

Source: www.theinsider.org

Published: February 8, 2005

 

Israel Attacks Itself And Blames Palestinian Terrorists

 

"The Insider" mailing list article, 08 February 2005.

 

A group of Israeli defence workers were exposed for attacking Israel after Palestinian terrorists had been blamed.

 

Yesterday morning the man who controls the Israeli military, Shaul Mofaz, confidently predicted that there would be a terrorist attack later that day. When his prediction proved to be correct it looked like another case of Israeli prior knowledge of a terrorist attack. The Western media reported it as an attack by Hezbollah, exactly as Mofaz had said.

 

Israel has now been forced to admit that the rocket attacks had been launched from an Israel Defense Forces base. The shells were fired by a team of Israelis who work for an Israeli defence company and claim to be "civilians". The Israeli media exposed the incident, but reported it as another "accident".

 

 

SOURCES

 

Thre Guardian, "Lebanon Militants Fire Rockets Into Israel", 7 February 2005.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4783694,00.html

JERUSALEM (AP) - Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon fired Katyusha rockets into northern Israel on Monday, police said Monday, a day before the Israeli and Palestinian leaders are to meet at a Mideast summit in Egypt.

Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz warned earlier in the day that some militants, including Hezbollah, may try to disrupt the summit. Israeli defense officials accuse the Lebanese guerrilla group of assisting Palestinian militants in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

...

 

Haaretz, "Shells hit north as test by weapons manufacturer goes awry", 7 February 2005.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/537273.html

Four mortar shells fell in and around the town of Nahariya in northern Israel late Monday afternoon, during a failed test by a weapons manufacturer in the area.

...

The test by the civilian weapons manufacturer was taking place in an Israel Defense Forces firing range north of Nahariya when it went wrong for reasons as yet unknown. The IDF itself had no involvement in the incident.

...

Defense officials initially thought that the shelling originated from Hezbollah guerillas in southern Lebanon.

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz warned earlier Monday that some militants, including the Iranian-backed Hezbollah, may try to disrupt Tuesday's summit between Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in Egypt.

[Guest guest]

Holland has three nuclear power plants AND makes weapons grade materials. why don't they attack Holland? they have no enemies worth talking about and do not need the weapons grade stuff.

the dutch make that weapons grade stuff for the Amurrikans in Germany, who arm their rockets with the stuff - that's why.

it fails to materialise why the world does not attack Amurrika, for not allowing inspections of its nuclear, biological and chemical waepons programs - the exact reason the Amurrikans use to attack other countries.

VdK

[krsna]

 

March 21, 1975

 

 

Prabhupada: (Says something in Hindi) [break] ...different desires, they are getting different conditions of life. Therefore we find so many species and forms of life.

Guest (Indian Press Representative): Is it possible, some of our..., is it possible on the spiritual platform?

 

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the only platform where...

Guest: But do you think that...

 

Prabhupada: Panditah sama-darsinah [bg. 5.18]. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu [bg. 18.54]. That is after being brahma-bhutah.

Guest: But are all religions following? There are so many sects.

Prabhupada: According to... No, why according? This is fact. Religion which is not on the samyavada, that is not religion. That is some mental concoction. This samyavada platform is described in the Bhagavad-gita, as I have quoted already, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [bg. 18.54]. When one is spiritually realized, that is called brahma-bhutah, and the symptom is prasannatma. So when one is prasannatma, naturally he is on the samyavada platform. On the material platform, nobody is prasannatma. Nobody.

Guest: But on the spiritual platform, everybody?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual platform means prasannatma. That is the distinction. And the material platform means nobody is satisfied. A man, millionaires, he is also committing suicide.

 

Guest: But do you think that all men can stand on the spiritual platform?

Prabhupada: All men can stand or not stand -- that is a different question. The fact is this. Suppose if I say, "Unless you become a graduate, you cannot enter law college." Now this question does not arise that whether everyone will be graduate. But this is the condition. This is the condition. Anyone who fulfills this condition, he can be admitted.

Guest: Then what is the condition prescribed for standing on the spiritual platform?

Prabhupada: This is the spiritual platform,

brahma-bhutah prasannatma

na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu

mad-bhaktim labhate param

[bg. 18.54]

This is spiritual. Unless you come to this platform, there is no question of samah sarvesu bhutesu or samyavada. Generally, they do not know it. They are talking of samyavada. They do not know what is the platform of samyavada. That is also further explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [sB 7.5.31]. Bhagavata, sastra, all Vedic literatures, they are perfect. So people do not know what is the aim of life. Therefore they have got different views. Actually they are missing what is the aim of life. There is a English proverb, "A man without aim and a ship without rudder," or something like that. So similarly, ask anybody what is the aim of life. He doesn't know, no clear idea.

Guest: Our aim of life should be the realization of God?

Prabhupada: Yes. Because at the present moment we are part and parcel. Just like a son, he has got the symptoms of his father, but he does not know who is his father. He does not know who is his father. There is a Hindi proverb, bap ka beta sipaika gora kusnaita tora tola: "The son inherits the quality of the father, but if he does not know who is his father, then what is his position?" That is going on. The scientist, he is trying to create something, but he does not know the supreme creator. Do you follow? Now the scientists are trying to create living being in the laboratory. But he does not enquire that who has already created so many millions of living entities? He is trying to create a living entity in laboratory. Suppose he creates one living entity. Then what credit is there for him? But he is spending lakhs and crores of rupees.

 

Guest: Then what should the scientists' role?

Prabhupada: Scientists' role, not only scientists, scientists, philosopher, politician -- everyone should endeavor that "Wherefrom we got these propensities? Where is the origin?" That is described in the Vedanta-sutra: athato brahma jijnasa. I am a scientist. I am thinking of myself very great man, but I do not think that "Who is that great scientist under whose order the sun, moon, the sea, ocean, everything is working very properly?" I am thinking of that water is created by hydrogen, oxygen, but I do not inquire, "Wherefrom such hugh quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came, so that there is big oceans and seas, water?" That I don't enquire. So I am so foolish scientist. I am theorizing. I am theorizing that life has come from matter, chemical composition, but as soon as I ask that "I give you the chemical. You create," he says, "That I cannot do." This is going on. But our business is, we Krsna conscious, that we see that you scientists, you are trying to create a living being, but I glorify the Supreme who has already created millions and millions of living beings. I give you credit that... I cannot give you credit unless you create. But still, as you are thinking that you will be able in future, that's good... But what credit you will have? If I have got millions of rupees, and if you create ten rupees, then what is your credit? Even if you create? You cannot do it. You will never be able to create life. That's a fact. That we know. But even if you are able to create, then what credit you, do you get. This is... Already there are millions and trillions of life. Why you are so proud that "We are going to create in the laboratory, life." Why this false prestige?

Guest: So what is the idea behind the movement?

Prabhupada: Behind the movement, that... This is the idea, that you try to understand the Supreme Being behind all, everything. That is perfection.

idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va

svistasya suktasya ca buddhi-dattayoh

avicyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito

yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam

[sB 1.5.22]

Idam hi pumsas tapasah srutasya va. Everyone, big, big philosophers, scientists, they are engaged in tapasya and education, but they do not know what is the ultimate goal of this tapasya. The scientist is working very hard, and he has discovered a nuclear bomb to kill.

Guest: And what is the ultimate goal of tapasya?

Prabhupada: Tapasya means that by his knowledge... Suppose you are scientist. You prove by scientific way that here is the supreme scientist who has given us all these laws.

Guest: Is it possible to see the Supreme?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: With our own eyes?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Guest: It is possible?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Even if it is not possible, but you have to accept there is a supreme scientist. If you cannot see Him, that is your disqualification. That is your disqualification. But you have to admit that there is a supreme scientist. If you say that hydrogen and oxygen mixed together makes water, that's all right. But who has created this big sea and ocean? Wherefrom the hydrogen, oxygen came? Who supplied? That is intelligence. Simply theoretical I know, but I cannot say who has created this big, vast mass of water by mixing hydrogen, oxygen. Wherefrom such huge quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came? Our point of view, that you scientists, you say that hydrogen, oxygen creates water, and here we see that somebody has created, but not somebody will know who is that body, how great He is. And that is our credit. If you want little credit by experimenting, hydrogen, oxygen mixed together, then how much credit should be given who has created the vast Atlantic Ocean, not only one, millions! Why don't you give credit?

Guest: You should give.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is our point.

Guest: But are you not giving credit?

Prabhupada: No, nobody is giving. They are denying. Especially these so-called scientists, they are denying the existence of God.

Devotee: "God is dead."

Prabhupada: "God is dead" or "There is no God.By science, we shall do everything," and this and..., all nonsense theories. Our proposition is that glorify that supreme scientist. Yad-uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam.

Guest: And the supreme scientist is God.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: He's God. Yes.

Guest: God, or you can give another name as you like, any way.

Prabhupada: No, God or the Supreme Being. God means the Supreme Being in the dictionary. He is not like you, not like me.

Guest: What about...

Prabhupada: Anyway, He is supreme. We are not supreme. But this subordinate person, he wants to take the position of the supreme by manufacturing a drop of water in the laboratory.

Guest: So what is the easiest way to see the Supreme Being with our own eyes?

Prabhupada: That you have to take advice from the Supreme. The Supreme says, "If you want to know Me..." Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [bg. 18.55]. You have to take the way of the Supreme. "Simply by devotional service one can understand Me, what I am actually, is." You have to take this way. That is Krsna consciousness movement. We are teaching everyone this bhakti-yogam so that one can understand the Supreme and submit to Him, yes. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [bg. 7.19]. When one understands by acquiring knowledge after many, many births, then he surrenders to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah [bg. 7.19]. This is the first-class mahatma. That we are teaching. It is not a sentiment. Most scientific.

Guest: Is it possible for poverty-stricken people, those who have to earn bread and money by the sweat of their brow?

Prabhupada: According to sastra, poverty is no impediment for understanding God. Because we see practically that those who are great souls, they have voluntarily accepted poverty.

Guest: Just like Pratapudro(?).

Prabhupada: Many. Just like Vyasadeva. There is no comparison of his literature. One cannot write one line like him. But he was living in a cottage. Canakya Pandita, such a great politician, he was living in a cottage. He did not keep any Rolls Royce car or like that. Rather, this material opulence is impediment to understand God. So it is not that I say, comparatively inferior, not that material opulence is also another check, no. Neither poverty is check nor material opulence is check. Anyone can understand if he follows the principle or process.

Guest: Process as laid down in Gita?

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the ABCD. Then you can go further on. If you read Bhagavad-gita as it is, there is everything explained, everything. All problems are solved. Any problem you propose, there is solution in the Bhagavad-gita. Now this poverty, as you raised this question, poverty, so what is written there in the Bhagavad-gita? Annad bhavanti bhutani [bg. 3.14]. This is instruction, that "You produce food grain." Now, suppose Calcutta is a big city. Who is producing food grain? Everyone is trying to purchase food grain. But who is thinking that "Wherefrom the food grain will come?" Just see the foolishness of the people. You have to produce food grain. And there is ample facility. But throughout the whole world there are hundreds and thousands of cities. Now, who is producing food grain? The solution is there in the Bhagavad-gita. He said, annad bhavanti bhutani. Krsna never said, "By motor tire bhavanti bhutani." Bhavanti means flourish. Everyone is engaged in producing motor tire, car, and they are flattering the Arabians for petrol. The same energy, if it would have been engaged in producing food grain, then where is the poverty? (Someone enters) Oh! Hare Krsna! Jaya.

Trivikrama: These men have just come from America.

Prabhupada: (Says something in Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: A new Back to Godhead. New issue, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: (Speaks in Bengali)

Tamala Krsna: 750,000 copies printed. Our party ordered 200,000.

Prabhupada: (Speaks in Bengali) Caitanya Mahaprabhu ordered,

bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara

janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara

[Cc. Adi 9.41]

This is para-upakara. So what is this nonsense para-upakara, creating an atom bomb? Is that para-upakara? Of course, it has got its utilization, but it is not for para-upakara. (Bengali) Paricaryatmakam karma sudra-karma svabhava-jam [bg. 18.44]. (Bengali) Sudra is the catur division, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13]. Now in India mostly they are sudras, 99.9. They are not interested that satya samo damas titiksa arjavah, jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [bg. 18.42]. (Bengali) They are captivated by the sudras. This, during the British period the sudra activities, developing the country by railway, by factory, by bridge -- these people are innocent. They thought that "Oh, here is the actual civilization. The Britishers have brought." They lost their own civilization.

Guest: Is it possible to be brahmana for all?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? Krsna said, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13].

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Suppose everyone becomes head. Then where is this supply of hands and legs? We do not say that everyone become brain. The brain is ordering, and who will carry the order? The order-carrier must be there, but they must carry order of the brahmana. Then it will be all right. The brain must be there, and the legs must be there. The legs must move by the dictation of the brain. Then it is perfect. It is not expected also that everyone will become brahmana. Therefore guna-karma-vibhagasah. Everyone has got his particular qualities. So we have to utilize -- what quality does he belong? But at the present moment the difficulty is that they do not care that in the society there must be a class of brain, brahmana. That they do not know. They want everyone should become a sudra, the Communists life, worker, "Work." And therefore they have not been successful. The whole nation is worker, and who will give the brain?

Guest: The whole nation is worker?

Prabhupada: Yes, Communist country, they want simply worker. But still, they have to create manager. Why manager created? Let everyone become worker. Now, Communist country also, although they say worker, but why they are creating manager?

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, you are in need of manager. You are in need of manager. You cannot deny another class of men of manager, so why not make the best manager, the brahmana, who is truthful, who is equal, satya samah damah, who is control of his senses, satya samah damah titiksa, who is tolerant? These are the brahminical qualification. Satya samah damah titiksa. Who is simple, not hypocrite. Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are sudra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13]. Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So sudra required, the brahmana required, the ksatriya required, and the vaisya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Krsna says, catur-varnyam. Why does He not say one varna, brahmana? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Andha-khanja-nyaya. Andha-khanja-nyaya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work. They must require a master. That is sudra. And then the vaisya, then the ksatriya, and the upper man is brahmana. He gives the direction to the ksatriya. He is ruler.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: Yes, (Bengali) ...really classless society. They should not be proud that "I am brahmana." No. As you are required, as much, the sudra is also required. It is not that only the brahmanas are required. This is a very scientific movement. (Bengali) It is not a bogus sentimental thing. It is a very scientific movement. It is not so-called yogi and swami and everything equal. And where is equality?

Guest: The Hare Krsna movement is a scientific movement?

Prabhupada: Most scientific.

satatam kirtayanto mam

yatantas ca drdha-vratah

namasyantas ca mam bhaktya

nitya-yukta upasate

[bg. 9.14]

Guest: (Bengali) to realize the Supreme.

Prabhupada: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Krsna says, annad bhavanti bhutani. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy? But they are saying that poverty should be removed, and we must acquire food for the suffering and starving. But what they are doing? They are manufacturing motor tire, the rascals.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) There is no question of dharma. First of all we say they must live. That is our proposal. Where is the question of dharma? Annad bhavanti bhutani [bg. 3.14]. Give everyone to eat sufficiently. This is our proposal.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gita it is plainly said, annad bhavanti bhutani: [bg. 3.14] if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. If you don't take advice from Krsna, God, then you are a mudha. So how he will adjust things? He himself is a mudha. A mudha means rascal, ass. Therefore our conclusion is that anyone who is not Krsna conscious or God conscious, he is a mudha. He does not know anything. He will not be able to do anything. Therefore this matter was entrusted to the brahmana to give direction. Brahmana means brahma janatiti brahmanah: "One who knows the Supreme, he is brahmana." And he takes advice and gives others direction. (Bengali) Why do they go to the bhattacarya? And he knows what is the action and reaction. That was the system of the society. (Bengali) Nobody is interested. They are simply interested in politics.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) If you want to act as lawyer, you must learn. You must have legal education. (to devotees:) So you take your bath and prasadam. Wherefrom you are coming?

Tamala Krsna: From New York.

Prabhupada: Oh, direct?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: How many hours?

Tamala Krsna: Actual flight time was twenty-three hours, but with the time change, about thirty-six hours.

Prabhupada: You were in the, thirty-six hours in the plane?

Tamala Krsna: Well, we were in the plane about twenty-four hours.

Prabhupada: Three hours extra. We had to come here, twenty-one hours.

Tamala Krsna: Well, it stopped in London, Rome, Beirut...

Prabhupada: Indian plane?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, an Air India. We came, altogether, ninety-six devotees.

Prabhupada: Oh. Where are they? They have gone?

Tamala Krsna: They are in Mayapur. They have gone. They have been met by a big bus, three buses, and are going on to Mayapur.

Prabhupada: (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Where is Gargamuni?

Srutakirti: He's outside.

Prabhupada: Call him, call him. (Bengali) So? Nobody came?

Gargamuni: No, we sent three notices. But five of them are coming to Mayapur. They called up.

Prabhupada: All right. (Bengali) You have got any written statement of our mission?

Guest: Mission activities?

Gargamuni: I gave him a Back to Godhead and the BBT about your books.

Prabhupada: So you have already supplied.

Gargamuni: I gave him one copy of Back to Godhead and that BBT... You have it there? And the BBT catalogue which gives your history and everything.

Prabhupada: And catalogue? Where is? This is BBT?

Gargamuni: Yes. This tells about your books.

Prabhupada: (Bengali) ...movement, (Bengali) bogus religious, it is scientific. You can question; I will understand. [break] They do not know what is the meaning of life. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [sB 7.5.31]. Another blind leader, so-called leader, he is blind himself. He does not know how to lead people. And the followers, followers are also blind. So what will be the result? They are bound up... Suppose if I tightly wrap your eyes, and all of them are done so, then how you will lead them?

Guest: Blind leaders and blind followers?

Prabhupada: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14]. This maya, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. Therefore Krsna consciousness movement is so important. If one becomes Krsna conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of maya. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore said, janma sarthaka kari kara para-upakara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect. And otherwise, you rascal, fool, blind, what you will do? So where is the training? Where the politicians are going to take training how to become free from the wrapping, illusion? So they are in illusion, in darkness. What they can do? Futile attempt. Therefore all plans are failure. So many Hitler, so many Gandhi, so many Churchill, they came and...

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupada: (Bengali) Without being Krsna conscious, everyone is blind. Yes, everyone is blind.

Guest: Without being...?

Prabhupada: Being Krsna conscious, everyone is blind. And they are trying to lead other blind men. So what will be the result? All of them will fall down on the ditch.

Guest: And they attempt to lead others...

Prabhupada: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gita in the words,

na mam duskrtino mudhah

prapadyante naradhamah

mayayapahrta jnana

asuri-bhavam asritah

[bg. 7.15]

Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mudha, rascal. And naradhamah. Naradhamah means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, naradhamah. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is mayayapahrta-jnana. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means maya has made them more foolish. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says,

jada-vidya sab, mayara vaibhava,

jibake karaye gadha

He has said like that, that so far advancement of material education means that so-called educated man is becoming more, more, more an ass. Why?

anitya somsare, moha janamiya,

He is simply getting more attached to this material world, where he will not be allowed to stay. This is his foolishness. Naturally, we are sitting in this room, and if we say that "I can spare only two minutes," then will you be very much eager to decorate the room? So that warning is already there. Everyone knows that "I will not be able to stay here," and they are making skyscraper building. How foolish they are. He knows that "I will not be allowed to stay here," and he is busy whole life how to make fogscraper, skyscraper. The same example. If I say, "You cannot sit here more than few minutes," then will you be engaged how to decorate this room? You'll know naturally that "I am here for two minutes. Why shall I take, waste my time to decorate?" They are doing that actually. So are they not foolish? (Bengali)

anitya somsare, moha janamiya,

jibake karaye gadha

Unnecessary attachment. Next life he may be not even a human being. The skyscraper building he is doing now with so great labor and enthusiasm, and next life he may be a cat or rat in that building. How can you stop it? The nature's law will act. If you have behaved like cats and dogs and you have attachment for the building, then nature will, "All right, you become a cat and dog according to karma and you remain in this building." (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta