Inconceivable Topics: How or from where the soul has come from?

krsna · February 3, 2005

Inconceivable Topics - KRSNA TALK 54

by

Swami B.G. Narasingha

Question: I have heard it said recently by some devotees that the origin of the jiva

(regarding the soul's falling or not falling from the lila of Krsna) is inconceivable and

that we cannot imagine or understand how or from where the soul has come into this

material world. Can you please comment on this controversial topic?

Answer: With our tiny brains so many things in Krsna consciousness are inconceivable.

Not only is the origin of the soul inconceivable but Krsna's name, His form, qualities,

and pastimes are all inconceivable to us. Who could conceive that the Absolute Truth

(the source of all existence) is crawling as an infant child in the courtyard of Nanda

Maharaja or suckling the breast of Mother Yasoda?

The great devotee, Raghupati Upadhyaya says,

srutim apare smrtim itare bharatam anye bhajantu bhava-bhitah,Ä®aham iha nandam vande

yasyalinde param brahma

"Those who are afraid of material existence worship the Vedic literature. Some worship

smrti, the corollaries to the Vedic literature, and others worship the Mahabharata. As

far as I am concerned, I worship Krsna's father, Maharaja Nanda, in whose courtyard the

Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, is playing."

That the Absolute Truth is crawling in the courtyard of Nanda Maharaja is inconceivable

to even the greatest thinkers that the world has ever known, but it is a fact.

When we rely on the capacity of our tiny brain then all such things may be

inconceivable. Knowledge or proper understanding of the Absolute Truth is obtained through the

descending process (avaroha) and not through the ascending process (aroha). Aroha depends

on the mind and senses, which are inherently defective and thus knowledge obtained in

this way is also defective or incomplete.

Avaroha means the process of receiving transcendental knowledge through the disciplic

succession of self-realized souls. Such knowledge when received submissively enables one

to understand the Absolute Truth.

The sound that comes to us through (disciplic succession) the process of avaroha is

also called sabda-brahma or transcendental sound vibration that is not subject to bhrama

(mistakes), pramada (illusion), vipralipsa (cheating), or karanapatava (imperfect

perception).

On the other hand any form of knowledge or understanding (particularly regarding the

Absolute Truth) sought through the process of aroha is most certainly wrought with the

four defects of bhrama, pramada, vipralipsa, and karanapatava.

If we want to know the origin of the soul or to understand the Supreme Personality of

Godhead we must first hear from authorities with faith (sraddha). This is called

sravana-dasa, hearing from authorities with faith.

Then comes varana-dasa, acceptance. When we faithfully hear from authorities the next

natural step is to accept what the authorities have said. Only faith allows us to

embrace transcendental knowledge. If for some reason we lack the essential faith and rely on

our tiny brains for understanding, then the truth remains inconceivable and beyond our

understanding or power of recognition. When we lack the proper faith then even after

hearing the truth we will fail to recognize it.

Acceptance or varana-dasa must be followed by sadhana-dasa, the stage of practice.

Practice means to follow in the footsteps. This means that the knowledge from spiritual

authorities must be followed and passed on to others without adding anything of our own

concoction. What the self-realized authorities say we accept as truth.

Then we come to the stage of prapana-dasa or attainment. In prapana-dasa there is

realization of the Absolute Truth. That which has been accepted on the basis of faith now

becomes fully realized.

By the grace of our spiritual teachers we can accept the truth after hearing with faith

and thus such matters as the inconceivable origin of the jiva can easily be understood

even in our neophyte stage of spiritual life.

If we do not have real faith then even after hearing the truth we will not accept it or

embrace it fully. The issue of the origin of the jiva is only inconceivable in the

minds of those devotees who have not embraced the transcendental knowledge passed down in

our disciplic succession.

Our spiritual master Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has stated:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for

it is the eternal abode." (S.B. purport, 3.16.26)

Shortly before the close of Srila Prabhupada's manifest pastimes he left instruction

that if his disciples had any questions regarding philosophy that they should approach

his godbrother, Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja.

As it turned out, the origin of the jiva and the jivas falling or not falling from the

spiritual world was one of the first philosophical questions to be raised after the

departure of Srila Prabhupada. Thus the disciples of Srila Prabhupada approached his

godbrother Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja for clarification and instruction. Srila Sridhar

Deva Goswami Maharaja stated as follows:

"The brahma-jyoti, the non-differentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite

jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of non-differentiated character. The rays of the

Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahma-jyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the

brahma-jyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the

brahma-jyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms.

"Generally, souls emanate from the brahma-jyoti which is living and growing. Within the

brahma-jyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From

non-differentiation, differentiation begins.

From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And

because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position

they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication.

"Because the soul is very small, his freedom is also imperfect; a soul in the marginal

position is very vulnerable. Freedom does not mean absolute freedom. Because the soul's

existence is small, his freedom is defective -- there is the possibility of committing

a mistake. Freedom of the minute soul does not mean perfect freedom. Complete freedom

would be perfect reality, but the minute soul is endowed with the smallest atomic

freedom. This is the position of the atoms of consciousness, and this is why they are

vulnerable. They may judge properly or improperly; that is the position of those who are

situated in the marginal position. If the soul were not endowed with the freedom to

determine his position, we would have to blame God for our suffering. But we cannot blame God.

The starting point of the soul's suffering is within himself." (Sri Krsna - Reality the

Beautiful, ch-4, Origin of the Soul)

When approached about this subject, Srila Sridhara Maharaja made no reference

whatsoever to the jiva ever having been in the lila of Krsna before his having fallen down to

this material world. Rather Srila Sridhara Maharaja makes it quite clear that the jiva

originates in the marginal plane of existence.

This is called srota-pantha, hearing and accepting knowledge through the disciplic

succession. Those who struggle with embracing the proper Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta

regarding to origin of the soul (as described above) are either the victims of a poor fund of

faith or they are simply suffering from the reactions of vaisnava-aparadha.

When we lack the essential faith to hear from authorities about the knowledge

pertaining to even the simplest truth (as the jiva issue) then what chance do we stand to

understand the higher lilas of Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana, where every word is a song and

every step is a dance and from where once having gone no one ever returns.

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Further references on the topic of the "Origin of the Jiva" are available at the

following URLs:

Jiva Tattva Article (Previous Krsna Talk)

http://www.gosai.com/krishna-talk/jiva-tatastha-53.html

Jiva Tattva Article & References

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva.html

Tulsi Devi and the Origin of the Jiva

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/nmj_articles/tulsi_devi.html

Kala Krsnadasa & the Origin of the Jiva

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/nmj_articles/kala_krsnadasa.html

GOSAI.COM HOME PAGE

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dhaa · October 2, 2005

Origin of the Jiva - Tatastha Shakti - Marginal Plane - Falldown from Spiritual World? - Krsna Talk 53

JIVAS and the MARGINAL PLANE

by

Swami B.G. Narasingha

According to the OOP book A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada sometimes says the jiva falls from association with Krsna and sometimes he says the jiva does not fall. This then becomes a paradox. A paradox is a statement, proposition or situation that seems to be absurd or contradictory, but in fact is or may be true. OOP therefore suggests that the jiva falls and doesn't fall simultaneously. But when A. C Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada himself states the conclusion, then the so-called 'paradox' created by some of his followers, vanishes.

According to the Bhaktivedanta purport on Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode."

This conclusion, which completely negates the so-called paradoxical view created in the OOP book, is also upheld by sastra and previous acaryas such as Jiva Gosvami, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and all bona fide devotees in the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. The conclusion is that the jivas, that are now conditioned by the modes of material nature and originate in the 'tatastha' or the marginal plane of existence, did not fall from the spiritual world.

Ignoring the conclusion of their spiritual master, the authors of the OOP book insist that the jiva falls from the spiritual world. Thus their opinions are taken simply as faulty interpolations

.......

OUR CONCLUSION

From sastra and the opinions of acaryas as quoted above it is quite clear that there is no possibility of fall down from the spiritual world, Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana. That Iskcon leaders continue to preach the apa-siddhanta (false conclusion) of the fall of the jiva from the spiritual world (as they have done in the OOP book) is indeed unfortunate and misleading.

In 1981 Iskcon leaders challenged the wisdom of Srila Sridhara Deva Gosvami when he tried to help them with a correct understanding of the marginal position of the jiva, but they returned his kindness with insult and offense. Having offended such a pure Vaisnava and calling him a 'mayavadi' for upholding the position of the jiva as marginal, Iskcon has now adopted the 'fall philosophy' that is tantamount to impersonalism (because such a 'fall philosophy' suggests the fallibility of the spiritual world) as their institutional doctrine. This is clearly an anartha (bhrama-tattva) that results from Vaisnava-aparadha.

In 1987 Iskcon leaders made an official apology to Srila Sridhara Maharaja for their offensive behavior towards him but then they continued to neglect his instructions and guidance in the matter of properly understanding Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy.