vaisheshika sutra

[Guest guest]

Hello, I need some help on this. I've searched all over online and haven't found too much information on the VS.

 

However, I've found one site, but it is in Hindi, and I can't read Hindi. It has an entire entire site on physics in ancient India, unfortunately it's all in Hindi.

 

In this section: http://www.abhyuday.org/xphysics/html/physics.php?open=force.xml

 

It mentions Newtons 3 laws of motion and even gives the formula and proofs. I am hoping there is someone who here who can translate these sections for me and also tell me if this information is being translated from the VS

 

Thank you in advance

 

[theist]

If anyone around here knows he will.

[Guest guest]

Ok, fine. I guess ill wait till someone answers.

[Guest guest]

Bump

[Guest guest]

Bump.

 

Is there no one here who speaks Hindi?

[Guest guest]

I am not going to get a response to this, am I?

[theist]

I noticed Avinash posted recently and I am sure he would have responded if he had seen this thread. May I suggest using his name Avinash in the title of a new thread so he will see it.

 

He has modern scientific training and is knowledgable about vedanta and related subjects.

[Avinash]

I saw this thread just now by following a link that you posted in another thread. I will go through the first post in this thread and post my response soon.

[Avinash]

As the article mentions, Vaishesika sutra talks about three kinds of samskara. The article talks about all the three, but I have gone through one of them, viz., "mechanical". The article says that this is the same as Newton's first law of motion. Here are the reasons given:-

 

1. Mechanical samskara causes action.

2. It is proportional to the action caused.

3. A single mechanical samskara can produce other mechanical samskaras.

 

The above three are as per Vaishesika sutras. Based on these, the article claims that mechanical samskara is the same as the force as mentioned in Newton's laws and that action (i.e. karma) is the same as motion.

 

But this seems to be a forced way of trying to correlate Vaishashika sutras with modern science. The seeming resemblance is because we often use the same word to mean various things. Vaishasika sutras say that actions are caused by and depend on samskaras. According to Newton's first law, force changes the state of a system. Again the state here is not just any kind of state. It is the state of rest or of uniform motion (i.e. movement with the same speed in the same direction). Just based on these observations, it will be a folly to equate Vaishesika sutras with Newton's laws.

 

I am not trying to say that the sutras are wrong. On the contrary, I believe in these sutras more than I believe in Newton's laws. Newton's laws are only approximations, but I believe in the sutras completely. Moreover, they talk of different things. If I make insulting comments to somebody, then it is a kind of samskara according to Vaishesika sutras. But it is not the same as a force as mentioned in Newton's laws.

 

The article uses a Hindi word "disha" which means direction. Both Newton's laws and Vaishesika sutras use this word but not in the same sense. If I become more spiritually inclined, then it is change in direction my life has taken. But this has nothing to do with direction as mentioned in Newton's laws. There are many other differences as well.

 

Some people think that by trying to equate Vaishesika sutras with Newton's laws, they are trying to prove its importance. But, in reality, the effect is just the opposite. Vaishesika sutras are far more important to lead better life than Newton's laws. So, by equating the two, they are demeaning these sutras, even though this is not their intention.

[Guest guest]

Welcome Avinash!

 

Avinash, the Vaishesika Sutras are are not a spiritual text. They are a physics text, karma in this context does mean action or force. Vega does not mean motion. Vaishesika does mention Newtons laws of motion, amongst other things:

 

 

All elements that comprise the physical universe, except ether, are made up of atoms

 

All substances are a combination of atoms

 

Force is that which displaces, holds together or moves things apart.

 

In the absence of a force, a particle of matter experiences no change.

 

The forces to be considered are an external force, gravity, that with causes attraction of particles, that which causes repulsion of particles and the internal movements of them in matter.

 

Action is opposed by an equivalent opposite reaction

 

The diversities of the movement of an arrow are due to the consecutive changes in the components of the acting forces. The stored energy provides the propulsion to the arrow and this causes it move further to a high point. This component keeps reducing while that of gravity increases resulting in its fall.

 

The force on a body is the resultant of gravity and the work done against it.

 

Once the work against gravity ceases then the body reaches an energy-less state falling under gravity.

 

In the absence of all forces the Samyoga binding(gravity) still exists.

 

The guna(quality of force) prevents the magnitude from being obtained.

 

The nature of air is formed of the collision of gases.

 

 

As you can see it is a physical science text. Not a spiritual one.

 

However, this Hindi site is the only web site that shows the mathematical proofs and formulas as well. However, I am not sure if these proofs and formulas are being derived from the sutras or whether the author is quoting Newtons laws directly. Can you translate some of the passages for me?

[Guest guest]

The web site also had a section saying how the VS were superior to Newtons laws. A translation?

[Avinash]

In Hindi Physics text books, the word "vega" is used to mean "velocity" though, of course, it may have different meaning in VS.

[Avinash]

I do not think that Vaisheshika sutra is not spiritual, because the first chapter talks about dharma. But I do agree that it also contains Physics. But this should not let us jump to the conclusion that Physics here is the same as Newton's laws of motion. I will consider it closer to (though not really the same as) theory of atoms than to Newton's laws.

[Guest guest]

Avinash, would it possible for you to translate it into English for me. So I can interpret it myself?

[theist]

Hey if you do a translation of this text why not make it into a book as there doesn't seem to be one.

 

I can't help it, it's just the vaisya in me.

 

: insert picture of greedy little smilie rubbing his hands together:

[Avinash]

Oops, sorry. I should have provided the translation. I will post the translation of the contents of the page that you mentioned in this thread. Please wait a few hours.

 

I am feeling happy that I know both Hindi and English. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Avinash]

Hi,

I went through the contents of the page that you referred to. I am giving below the English translation of whatever is written there without my interpretation even if I did not believe in some of things written there. Anyway, here is the translation:-

 

Prashastpada has said that there are three forms of force:-

 

1. vega (mechanical) 2. bhAvanA (emotional) and 3. sthitisthApakatA (elasticity)

 

In the current context, we will discuss on vega i.e. mechanical force.

 

Prashastpada has defined ‘vega’ in the following ways: -

 

1. It is as a result of mechanical force that action is produced.

2. vega is proportional to the work produced and works in a given direction.

3. vega opposes combination of matter and sometimes one vega produces other vegas in sequence.

 

In the five basic physical quantities (viz. solid, liquid, gas, energy and mind), mechanical force assumes an important position, which works in a particular direction and produces action proportional to it. Moreover, like temperature, it opposes the combination of matter. Sometimes, due to one mechanical force, other mechanical forces are produced in sequence.

 

The inference of the above definition is as follows:-

 

1. vega (mechanical force) is a special cause for action.

2. vega is proportional to the action produced and works in a given direction.

3. vega opposes combination of matter and sometimes one vega produces other vegas in sequence.

 

Therefore, after explaining the definition, it is clear that the three laws by KanAda are currently known after the name of Newton.

 

These are described in the following paragraphs: -

 

First law of motion: -

 

The word 'vega' is a word of Sanskrit language. Etymologically, the word 'vega' is from the word 'vejana'. The word 'vejayati' means the 'cause of work'. Therefore, it indicates that 'vega' means force.

 

In the production or increment of karma (i.e. motion), the root cause is force. In other words, there is incremental or decremental change in motion. This statement can be easily compared with Newton's first law of motion.

 

Second law of motion: -

 

This law is a law of the measure of force. According to this, so long mechanical force works, there is change in motion i.e. there is momentum. To find its value, it is calculated how much work it produces in a unit time.

 

Mathematically, the rate of change in momentum i.e. the increment in work in unit time is proportional to the force in action. Also, this change is in the direction of the force.

 

Suppose that the mass of an object is 'm' and in time interval 't', the velocity of the object changes from 'u' to 'v' due to the force acting on it. Then,

 

Initial momentum = mu

Final momentum = mv

Change in momentum = m(v-u)

 

Therefore, the rate of change of momentum = m(v-u)/t = ma (from the first law)

 

From the second law,

force is proportional to the rate of change of momentum.

Or, p alpha ma

Or, p = kma (where k is a constant)

 

If m=1 and a=1, then

1 = k*1*1 or k = 1

Or, p = ma

 

Therefore, unit force is the one that produces unit acceleration in an object of unit mass.

 

In the C.G.S. system of units, the unit of force is dyne where one dyne is the force that produces an acceleration of 1cm per sq. second in a mass of 1 gm.

 

Third law of motion:-

"Force every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."- This is Newton's third law of motion.

 

According to this law, effort is applied in the direction opposite to the direction in which work is produced. Example:- rowing boat, walking on Earth, moving up a tree, flying in the sky by birds etc. In all these example, it is worth being noted that the direction in which work is produced, we have to apply effort in the direction opposite to that. In rowing a boat, the water is to be pushed by rower in the opposite direction. Likewise, while walking on Earth, the Earth is to be pushed in the opposite direction.

 

Therefore, 'vega' is that mechanical force opposite to which there is desired work in systems.

 

Superiority over Newton's laws:-

The thought of Vaisheshika teachers regarding force proves that force is calculated from work and is a physical cause for work. Therefore, its real existence is not necessary. However, force is a real physical quantity according to Newton. We can easily understand the fictitious force mentioned in Einstein's theory of relativily from what Vaisheshika teachers believe in, while it cannot be understood from Newton's laws of motion.

 

Note:- After this, references are given.

[Avinash]

Any discussions on this?

[Guest guest]

Thanks a lot Avinash!

 

That is amazing, and it even mentions the proofs! I just have one question, is it all from the VS? Is there anyone I can get an english translation of the entire VS.

 

I clicked onto the other links on the site, and I came across all sorts of discussions on electricity, magnetism, photons, spectroscopy and gravitation. It's like reading a modern physics book!(except it's in a language you do not understand)

 

I know I am asking for too much, but would it be possible for you to translate another few sections for me. Don't worry, I am giving you the small ones(even though I would really like a translation on the "spectroscopy one" but that is too long.

 

Energy: http://www.abhyuday.org/xphysics/html/physics.php?open=energy.xml

 

Waves: http://www.abhyuday.org/xphysics/html/physics.php?open=wave_aspect.xml

 

There is even more on motion and mechanics here:

 

http://www.abhyuday.org/xphysics/html/physics.php?open=motion.xml

[Avinash]

Energy

 

As per Vaisheshika philosophy, energy is a very shining thing. It is energized by nature. One important quality of energy is to impart hear. Therefore, any object that interacts with it shows increase in temperature. The combination with energy brings change in motion.

 

Material obstructions are of two kinds:- 1. Absorption 2. Refraction.

 

For example, wood obstructs its path by absorption. Materials like glass allow energy to pass through them by refraction. An object displays change in colour in combination with energy due to scattered photons. The study of Anshubodhini shows that there was existence of the knowledge of spectroscopy in ancient India.

 

Sources of Energy:-

Prashastpad has formulated four kinds of energy. These four kinds are different forms of energy. They are as follows:-

1. Terrestrial 2. Celestial 3. Abdominal 4. 'Akaraj'.

 

Vaisheshika philosphy interpretes terrestrial and celestial in terms of their source. The energy which is produced when a fuels like wood-fuel etc. burn with flame is called terrestrial. Energy produced by Sun, electricity etc. are called celestial. The other two, viz., abdominal and akaraj are subphysical and paraphysical. The works of human body can never be accomplished without energy. The cause of the process of digestion after having taken food is called abdominal. Metals like gold and platinum are said of have akaraj energy.

 

Physics explains energy as temperature and color respectively.

 

The invisible cause of the motion of an iron rod towards a magnet and the effects of electrity are different forms of energy.

 

The rigorous study of all of the above is the main reason for the development of modern Physics. It is possible to describe heat, light, elasticity and magnetism by studying them separately.

 

If, together with Physics and Vaisheshika philosophy, a comparative study of the wave aspect of sound is carried out, then one can easily understand the disintegration of atoms. Ancient Indian literature mentions two other forms of sound

1. Wave inside matter

2. Wave aspect of matter

 

By comparative study here is meant bringing about harmony between Physics in Vaisheshika philosophy and modern Physics. The remaining will be explained in later paragraphs.

[Guest guest]

Thanks again, Avninash. I am slightly disappointed in this text. It sounds like most of it is exposition by the writer. Can you confirm if the quoted parts are from the VS or not

 

 

Therefore, any object that interacts with it shows increase in temperature. The combination with energy brings change in motion.

 

 

Material obstructions are of two kinds:- 1. Absorption 2. Refraction.

 

 

For example, wood obstructs its path by absorption. Materials like glass allow energy to pass through them by refraction. An object displays change in colour in combination with energy due to scattered photons. The study of Anshubodhini shows that there was existence of the knowledge of spectroscopy in ancient India.

 

 

 

Physics explains energy as temperature and color respectively.

 

 

 

 

The rigorous study of all of the above is the main reason for the development of modern Physics. It is possible to describe heat, light, elasticity and magnetism by studying them separately.

 

 

 

If, together with Physics and Vaisheshika philosophy, a comparative study of the wave aspect of sound is carried out, then one can easily understand the disintegration of atoms.

 

 

It is obvious this is not from the VS. I wondering if you understand what the author means?

[Avinash]

Everything written in that web-site is not from VS. Rather, the author has taken a few verses from VS and interpreted it to show that they conform with what modern Physics says.