Proportionate Justice

[Guest guest]

Is there any proportionate justice that krishna gives if we surrender and then disobey him? Is there any concept like that in our vaishnava teachings? please some one explain.

[theist]

This is a question that I am sure be found to be very relevant in many lives here. I am sure we will get a nice answer from someone.

 

Another question might be if He dispenses justice or 'hard' mercy to such a person.

[vijay]

Once started we are dragged to eternal happiness, we may see that a devotee is a scum but krishna and gurus vision is completely different, we see this life time and judge, krishna sees millions of lifetimes and sees at last my son has called out for me, he then does everything he can to bring us back to him, we may fall and hurt ourselves a few times but eventually he makes sure we get there.

 

 

Pariksit Maharaja had inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami how one can be saved from falling into the various conditions of hellish life. In this verse Sukadeva Gosvami answers that a soul who has surrendered to Krsna certainly cannot go to naraka, hellish existence. To say nothing of going there, even in his dreams he does not see Yamaraja or his order carriers, who are able to take one there. In other words, if one wants to save himself from falling into naraka, hellish life, he should fully surrender to Krsna. The word sakrt is significant because it indicates that if one sincerely surrenders to Krsna once, he is saved even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful activities. Therefore Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (9.30):

 

api cet su-duracaro

bhajate mam ananya-bhak

sadhur eva sa mantavyah

samyag vyavasito hi sah

 

"Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated." If one never for a moment forgets Krsna, he is safe even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful acts.

In the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (2.40) the Lord also says:

 

nehabhikrama-naso 'sti

pratyavayo na vidyate

svalpam apy asya dharmasya

trayate mahato bhayat

 

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Elsewhere in the Gita (6.40) the Lord says, na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati: "one who performs auspicious activity is never overcome by evil." The highest kalyana (auspicious) activity is to surrender to Krsna. That is the only path by which to save oneself from falling down into hellish life. Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati has confirmed this as follows:

 

kaivalyam narakayate tri-dasa-pur akasa-puspayate

durdantendriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate

visvam purna-sukhayate vidhi-mahendradis ca kitayate

yat-karunya-kataksa-vaibhavavatam tam gauram eva stumah

 

The sinful actions of one who has surrendered unto Krsna are compared to a snake with its poison fangs removed (protkhata-damstrayate). Such a snake is no longer to be feared. Of course, one should not commit sinful activities on the strength of having surrendered to Krsna. However, even if one who has surrendered to Krsna happens to do something sinful because of his former habits, such sinful actions no longer have a destructive effect. Therefore one should adhere to the lotus feet of Krsna very tightly and serve Him under the direction of the spiritual master. Thus in all conditions one will be akuto-bhaya, free from fear

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

"In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Devotional service is so pure and perfect that once having begun, one is forcibly dragged to ultimate success. Sometimes a person will give up his ordinary material engagements and out of sentiment take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord and thus begin the preliminary execution of devotional service. Even if such an immature devotee falls down, there is no loss on his part. On the other hand, what is the gain of one who executes the prescribed duties according to his varna and asrama but does not take to devotional service? Although a fallen devotee may take his next birth in a low family, his devotional service will nonetheless resume from where it left off. Devotional service is ahaituky apratihata; it is not the effect of any mundane cause, nor can it be terminated by any mundane cause or permanently curtailed by any material interruption. Therefore a devotee should be confident about his engagement and should not be very interested in the activities of the karmis, jnanis and yogis.

There are certainly many good qualities among fruitive actors, philosophical speculators and mystic yogis, but all good qualities automatically develop in the character of a devotee. No extraneous endeavor is needed.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Prabhupada: So we have explained yesterday, buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yoga means bhakti-yoga. So, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Bhakti-yoga, begun, some way or other, it has got great effect. There is story that in the Deity room, a lamp was burning. You know oil lamp has to be watched. Sometimes the wick has to be pushed. So the lamp was almost going to be extinguished. In the meantime a rat came there. He thought that it is something eatable. So he touched with mouth, the wick, and it became pushed. Simply by that action he got salvation. Just try to understand. Because he gave some service to the Deity. So there are many instances. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Krsna consciousness business is so nice that whatever you do sincerely, it will never be lost. Permanent. Either you execute one percent, two percent, fifty percent. If you can finish hundred percent, then next life, sure you are going to Krsna. But even if you are unable to finish the whole course, still, whatever you have done, that is permanent credit. That will never be lost. The similar passage is there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, while Narada Muni was instructing Vyasadeva for writing Srimad-Bhagavatam. So he said this verse:

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Hari-sauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupada: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Krsna consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Hari-sauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Krsna consciousness or acting for the benefit of Krsna without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Krsna consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Krsna consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Krsna consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajamila performed his duty in some percentage of Krsna Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vabhadram abhud amusya kim

ko vartha apto 'bhajatam sva-dharmatah

 

If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly? (Bhag. 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body, but work in Krsna consciousness carries the person again to Krsna consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brahmana or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Krsna consciousness."

Prabhupada: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Krsna, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati.

Ramesvara: (reads)

 

ksipram bhavati dharmatma

sasvac-chantim nigacchati

kaunteya pratijanihi

na me bhaktah pranasyati

 

"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities either by accident or intention, be a pure devotee? This question may justly be raised. The miscreants, as stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature. According to the Veda, there is a certain regulation that if one falls down from his exalted position, he has to undergo certain ritualistic processes to purify himself. But here there is no such condition, because the purifying process is already in the of the devotee due to his remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly. Therefore the chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare should be continued without stoppage. This will protect a devotee from all accidental falldowns. He will thus remain perpetually free from all material contaminations."

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

Mercy is always above justice

But Krsna can apparently be so cruel at times, only to show the glories and kindness of His divine servitors.To whom He is sold subjugated and eternally indebted to

If we are consciously committing offence against His will there must be some reaction. But if it is for the higher pleasure of their Lordships then He does have room in His heart to overlook our transgressions .

It depends on the seriousness of the offence. (sin) Vaisnava aparadhe can take a lot of atonement to dissolve and generally only forgiven by the vaisnava, even Krsna won't forgive insult to His beloved friends.

 

This from Hidden Treasure By Srila Sridhara Maharaj may be seen to be relevant here.

 

The second interpretation of this verse was revealed to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in a dream.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam (11.11.32) Lord Krsna says:

 

 

ajnayaivam gunan dosan, mayadistan api svakan

dharman samtyajya yah sarvan, mam bhajet sa ca sattamah

“The best of honest persons are those who have left behind the forms of duties that I Myself have recommended in the scriptures, for the general public. Although it is My direction, they cross it and come to render loving service to Me. They are the real honest men.”

In society, one must obey the law, but there is also the situation of crossing law to show faithfulness to the king. If one risks his life and reputation, and crossing the general law, enters into the royal chamber to combat an assassin, then he will be considered the best and most loyal servitor. Similarly, the Lord is saying, “I have already given some direction for the general public. Do this, don't do that, don't cross these laws, etc. But if for My interest anyone takes the risk of committing sin, then he should be considered the best among all My devotees. So, Arjuna, you go and declare it, promise it to the public that the ananya-bhak (9.30), the exclusively devoted persons, will never come to ruin. Then you will get the benefit. You will become dharmatma, religious, and attain eternal divine happiness. The ananya-bhak, the exclusive devotees, have already crossed the threshold of dharma, the standard of dutifulness, and taken the risk to throw themselves fully into My service. Sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja (18.66). There is no question of them again becoming virtuous or religious. They surpassed dharma long before, and took the risk and entered into prema-dharma, My loving service, rejecting both piety and sinfulness.”

 

 

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