Euthanasia

[theist]

This one puzzles me a lot. I can't define my position on it at all.

 

Would like to listen to the pros and cons.

 

Here is one question.

 

Suppose I am hopelessly incapcitated physically. Fully paralyzed but yet mentally lucid. Am I obligated to lay there and be mainted by the hospital staff until death finnaly comes for me? Or can I make that move myself without fear of incurring karmic debt?

 

 

Did Srila Prabhupada ever speak to this?

[rand0M aXiS]

Thanks for spoiling Clint's movie for me :^(

[Gauracandra]

Here is the Catholic view of suicide (atleast to my understanding). It sounds a bit strange until we think it through a bit.

 

Basically, we are created beings - we have been given life, which is a great boon. Life is viewed as something fundamentally good, the world is good even if we have fallen. Now when you murder someone you take a single life, and this is a sin. However, suicide I believe is considered an even greater sin than murder. Sounds odd. But the idea is that when you kill yourself, you insult the whole of creation. You say that this whole world is dead to you. There is nothing worth living for. I kill myself I am saying that I have abandoned all hope.

 

I think part of the Catholic teaching against suicide is one of mental health. I think society, especially atheistic society, and society that becomes more spiritually confused, naturally turns to suicide. They start to question everything, even whether life is worth anything. So a strict guard against suicide is set up because they know how the mind of man works - people unless given hope, unless they see life and the world as good, will fall into despair and kill themselves. Partly its theological and partly its mental health. A world without God is a world in which we can't give thanks for anything (who would we thank). A world where we are just machines to be turned off or on is a desperate world - and if this idea becomes prevalent then we create a culture of death.

 

We must always have hope. We must fight against the mind - which naturally follows the most expedient path to relieve pain. But there is something worse than pain - its having no hope. Its the duty of each of us to be that hope when someone is in despair, to help them carry their cross until the end. If they are to die, let them die well - with someone with them until the end. Giving up hope is easy - its what we would all do if left to our own mind. Having hope, and giving hope, even in the most hopeless situations is extremely difficult. But if but a spark of hope remains it can be fanned into a flame. Its easy for me to say as I'm not in such a desperate situation, but thats the idea.

 

Imagine in some horrible situations. Suppose you were a Jew in a Nazi concentration camp in 1945. You are starving and deprived. Millions of people around you have been gased and cremated. Why not give up hope and commit suicide. But then someone helps you to carry on just a little longer until the end, and then the Allies defeat Germany, and you are spared. You grow up, have children, generations continue forward. Who knows what the world will bring? But if we kill that spark, snuff out the light, we are assured that we won't bring good into the world. There is a movie out called Hotel Rwanda I think that is like this - one man saving others in a desperate situation. I haven't seen it yet but have heard its very good.

 

Anyways, always "Keep hope alive".

[theist]

It's not a secret though. It really has nothing to do with the bulk of the movie anyway and even in the film it was raised but never answered. Notice I didn't say about what the decision was as we never learn.

[theist]

I can understand that because that kind of depression can be overcome. Also the Catholics think they are the created material body.

 

But then in the scenario I described there is no chance of change. So one wouldn't leave so much with a distase for life seeking nothingness but rather knowing there was more up ahead.

 

But then my mind says maybe such a person was put in that situation to pay off a specific karma that will carry over with the soul anyway so it might be better to get it over with here and now. Plus it could compound the karmic debt.

 

Or perhaps that situation had been arranged to give one a intensive crash course in traveling beyond the body.

 

Yogis can chose their time of death and burn their bodies from lighting some internal fire. The there is the past rite of sati.

 

It is doubtful any past writings are there to instruct us as this is mainly do to modern medical techniques.

 

As it is now I am just assuming that 'when in doubt, wait it out'.

 

It certainly is a question that devotees will be asked more and more.

[Guest guest]

Very thoughtful answer that Gaurachandra gives.

I always thought that if you cut the vegetable state of suffering short you will more than likely come back to the same state, perhaps born retarded, although it's probably pretty hellish in such restricted form, so is our usual body pretty restricted, but better to ride out the storm, remember that's not the person you're looking at.

 

The exception I would say is if a pure devotee pulls the plug , but would they?

I believe while there is life there is hope. Death ain't pretty any way you go. Unless it's a full vaisnava fare well

surrounded by ever well wishers in a loving kirtan. At least you know they're going and there is a chance to do lots of rememberance from your friends if they chant. If they don't chant it becomes an unbearable spectacle.

I've seen devotees depart in Vrndavan on the street in that condition and you can't help but empathize with their predicament but then on the other hand what great fortune.

to this day I have the image of that persons face etched on my mind. Personally I'd just like some dignified exit, if only you could script it.

Srila Prabhupad showed the way, that's heavy.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Or can I make that move myself without fear of incurring karmic debt?

 

 

We are in our position of suffering because we have a karmic debt to pay. The debt doesnt get paid off by running away, it remains and we will continue to suffer the same in the next life. Better to accept our responsibility and burn off the karmic debt while cultivating bhakti.

[Guest guest]

Not for us to decide meant choosing to pull the plug on someone else.