krsna Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 RASA ...In answer to your question; ``On Krishna loka are all of Krishna's pastimes with the living entities controlled by Krishna, or do the living entities have choice in this matter? In other words, is one's rasa governed by strict laws determined by Krishna or is there free choice aside from the free choice of choosing Krishna or maya?'' In the transcendental world there is no influence of maya or time. So there is full freedom of activities, but because there is no maya, therefore everyone is engaged in his natural activities or spontaneously serving Krishna in different relationships. Just like hand is related with the whole body for some particular purpose, the leg is related with the whole body for some particular purpose, the ear is related with the whole body for some particular purpose, and so on. Similarly all living entities, being eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, are engaged in His service for some particular purpose. So there are varieties of engagements but they are all united with the central figure, Lord Krishna. Santa-rasa means appreciation of the greatness of the Lord, but there is no active service of the Lord. The land, the grass, the trees, the plants, fruits, or the cows in the transcendental world are supposed to be situated in the santa-rasa. As spiritual beings, they are all conscious of Krishna, but they prefer to appreciate Krishna's greatness remaining as they are. The next development from Santa-rasa is Dasya-rasa, which means voluntary offering of some service. Next development is Sakhya rasa, or service in spirit of friendship and well-wisher. The next development is Vatsalya rasa, service as well wisher and affection. The next development is Madhura rasa, service, friendship, affection and conjugal love. So in the Madhura rasa, everything is complete. In the spiritual world there is no such relationship as God as the father. In the material world such conception is appreciated very much. In the material world everyone wants to take from God because the conditioned soul wants to enjoy the senses. And the concept of fatherhood is to drag resources from the Supreme. But in the spiritual world there is no question of drawing from the Supreme. Everything there is to serve the Lord, and service is rendered in 5 different rasas or transcendental humors as described above. For ourselves, when we are in the perfect stage of devotional service, we can know our eternal relation with Krishna, and as such, one of the associates of Lord Krishna becomes our ideal leader. This acceptance of leadership by one of the eternal associates of the Lord is not artificial. Do not therefore try it at present; it will be automatically revealed to you in proper time. (Letters from Srila Prabhupada June 6 & March 12, 1968, March 21, 1967) What was my condition after repeatedly chanting the holy name? I realized that I am the eternal servant of Krsna. This realization became manifest within my heart. I realized that in this mundane universe, in the noose of illusion, I simply obtain misery in various ways due to separation to Lord Govinda. O residents of Vraja-dhama! Please save my life and show me the Lord of Radha! Consider the prayers of this Bhaktivinoda and take him into your company. (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Do not therefore try it at present; it will be automatically revealed to you in proper time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Sri Thakura Bhaktivinoda's Siksa Dasaka-mulam or The Ten Cardinal Principles Thakura Bhaktivinoda's own English explanations along with the original slokas translated from the Bengali rendering. We now proceed to explain his ( Chaitanya's) precepts to those who are not aquainted with them. This little book and the commentaries contain such of his holy principles as are prominent. Chaitanya teaches us in the first place that the rational attributes of men are not capable of approaching the divine sphere of spirit. Yukti, as he styles reason, is quite incompetent in such a matter. Ruchi, as he styles the religious sentiment in man, even in a very small quantity, has the power to comprehend it. ( svalpApi rucireva syAd bhaktitattvAvabodhikA/ yuktistu kevlA naiva yadasyA apratisthitA// Bha.R.S. 1.1.45). It is inspiration which can alone give light to spiritual matters. Inspirations coming down from heaven through purified and blest souls have exhibited themselves in the form of the Vedas. The Vedas together with their explanitory notes, the Puranas are, therefore, the only evidence in matters of spirit and are eternal in nature. Vedic truths should, therefore, be accepted as the only truth in higher matter. Reason, while sincerely helping the inspired truth, may be accepted as auxiliary evidence. TheVedas teach us, according to Chaitanya nine principle doctrines. ( counting the point made here that the Vedas are the valid testimony makes up the tenth principle.) amnaya praha tattvam harim-iha paramam sarva saktim rasabdhim tad-bhinnamsamsca jivan prakrti kavavlitan tad-vimuktamsca bhavat / bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam-api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat-pritim-evetyupadisati janan gauracandrah svayam sah //1// The testimony of the Vedas, handed down in preceptorial succession, have declared that 1) Hari is the singular and ultimate reality; 2) He is vested with infinite powers; 3) He is the ocean or repositary of rasa (rapture). 4) Jivas are the dissassociated parts of Hari. 5) Some jivas are fettered by Maya and 6) some attain release threrefrom. 7) All existance is Hari's inconcievably distinct and non-distinct manifestation. 8) The discipline of bhakti is the means to the attainment of Hari and 9) priti or ecstatic love for Hari is the fullfilment of the highest end.Thus teaches lord Hari himself in the person of Gauracandra. svatahsiddho vedo hari-dayita-vedha-prabhrtibhih pramanam sat-praptam pramiti-visayamstan-nava-vidhan / tatha pratyaksyadi pramiti-sahitam sadhayati no na yuktistarkakhya pravisati tatha sakti-rahitam //2// Those recipients of lord Hari's favour such as god Brahma and others recieved the self-evident Vedic knowledge from the lord himself, and so the Vedas and their supliments form the valid testimony from which are derived nine principle doctrines. Ocular perception and other forms of evidence are acceptable only so long as they concur with the Vedic revelation. Yukti that amounts to dry desputation has no foundation and cannot be accepted as valid evidence. haristvekam tattvam vidhi-siva-suresa-pranamito yad-evedam bramha prakrti-rahitam tat-tanu-mahah / paratma tasyamso jagadanugato visvajanakah sa vai radha-kanto navajalada-kantiscid-udayah //3// Sri Hari is the indivisable supreme reality to whom the gods like Vidhi, Siva, Suresh and the rest, bow in humble salutation. The light of Bramhan, which transcends the attributes of Nature, is but the refulgence of his divine body. The supreme self who is the progenitor of the universe and who has entered the universe as the indwelling monitor is the extended self (amsa) of Sri Hari. He is the embodiment of pure consciousness, bearing the dark effulgence of a rain-laden cloud and he is the divine lover of Sri Radha. Siksa Dasaka-mulam or The Ten Cardinal Principles Thakura Bhaktivinoda's own English explanations along with the original slokas translated from the Bengali rendering. We now proceed to explain his ( Chaitanya's) precepts to those who are not aquainted with them. This little book and the commentaries contain such of his holy principles as are prominent. Chaitanya teaches us in the first place that the rational attributes of men are not capable of approaching the divine sphere of spirit.Yukti, as he styles reason, is quite incompetent in such a matter. Ruchi, as he styles the religious sentiment in man, even in a very small quantity, has the power to comprehend it.( svalpApi rucireva syAd bhaktitattvAvabodhikA/ yuktistu kevlA naiva yadasyA apratisthitA// Bha.R.S. 1.1.45). It is inspiration which can alone give light to spiritual matters. Inspirations coming down from heaven through purified and blest souls have exhibited themselves in the form of the Vedas. The Vedas together with their explanitory notes, the Puranas are, therefore, the only evidence in matters of spirit and are eternal in nature. Vedic truths should, therefore, be accepted as the only truth in higher matter. Reason, while sincerely helping the inspired truth, may be accepted as auxiliary evidence. TheVedas teach us, according to Chaitanya nine principle doctrines. ( counting the point made here that the Vedas are the valid testimony makes up the tenth principle.) amnaya praha tattvam harim-iha paramam sarva saktim rasabdhim tad-bhinnamsamsca jivan prakrti kavavlitan tad-vimuktamsca bhavat / bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam-api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat-pritim-evetyupadisati janan gauracandrah svayam sah //1// The testimony of the Vedas, handed down in preceptorial succession, have declared that : 1) Hari is the singular and ultimate reality; 2) He is vested with infinite powers; 3) He is the ocean or repositary of rasa (rapture). 4) Jivas are the dissassociated parts of Hari. 5) Some jivas are fettered by Maya and 6) some attain release threrefrom. 7) All existance is Hari's inconcievably distinct and non-distinct manifestation. 8) The discipline of bhakti is the means to the attainment of Hari and 9) priti or ecstatic love for Hari is the fullfilment of the highest end.Thus teaches lord Hari himself in the person of Gauracandra. svatahsiddho vedo hari-dayita-vedha-prabhrtibhih pramanam sat-praptam pramiti-visayamstan-nava-vidhan / tatha pratyaksyadi pramiti-sahitam sadhayati no na yuktistarkakhya pravisati tatha sakti-rahitam //2// Those recipients of lord Hari's favour such as god Brahma and others recieved the self-evident Vedic knowledge from the lord himself, and so the Vedas and their supliments form the valid testimony from which are derived nine principle doctrines. Ocular perception and other forms of evidence are acceptable only so long as they concur with the Vedic revelation. Yukti that amounts to dry desputation has no foundation and cannot be accepted as valid evidence. haristvekam tattvam vidhi-siva-suresa-pranamito yad-evedam bramha prakrti-rahitam tat-tanu-mahah / paratma tasyamso jagadanugato visvajanakah sa vai radha-kanto navajalada-kantiscid-udayah //3// Sri Hari is the indivisable supreme reality to whom the gods like Vidhi, Siva, Suresh and the rest, bow in humble salutation. The light of Bramhan, which transcends the attributes of Nature, is but the refulgence of his divine body. The supreme self who is the Siksa Dasaka-mulam or The Ten Cardinal Principles Thakura Bhaktivinoda's own English explanations along with the original slokas translated from the Bengali rendering. We now proceed to explain his ( Chaitanya's) precepts to those who are not aquainted with them. This little book and the commentaries contain such of his holy principles as are prominent. Chaitanya teaches us in the first place that the rational attributes of men are not capable of approaching the divine sphere of spirit.Yukti, as he styles reason, is quite incompetent in such a matter. Ruchi, as he styles the religious sentiment in man, even in a very small quantity, has the power to comprehend it.( svalpApi rucireva syAd bhaktitattvAvabodhikA/ yuktistu kevlA naiva yadasyA apratisthitA// Bha.R.S. 1.1.45). It is inspiration which can alone give light to spiritual matters. Inspirations coming down from heaven through purified and blest souls have exhibited themselves in the form of the Vedas. The Vedas together with their explanitory notes, the Puranas are, therefore, the only evidence in matters of spirit and are eternal in nature. Vedic truths should, therefore, be accepted as the only truth in higher matter. Reason, while sincerely helping the inspired truth, may be accepted as auxiliary evidence. TheVedas teach us, according to Chaitanya nine principle doctrines. ( counting the point made here that the Vedas are the valid testimony makes up the tenth principle.) amnaya praha tattvam harim-iha paramam sarva saktim rasabdhim tad-bhinnamsamsca jivan prakrti kavavlitan tad-vimuktamsca bhavat / bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam-api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat-pritim-evetyupadisati janan gauracandrah svayam sah //1// The testimony of the Vedas, handed down in preceptorial succession, have declared that 1) Hari is the singular and ultimate reality; 2) He is vested with infinite powers; 3) He is the ocean or repositary of rasa (rapture). 4) Jivas are the dissassociated parts of Hari. 5) Some jivas are fettered by Maya and 6) some attain release threrefrom. 7) All existance is Hari's inconcievably distinct and non-distinct manifestation. 8) The discipline of bhakti is the means to the attainment of Hari and 9) priti or ecstatic love for Hari is the fullfilment of the highest end.Thus teaches lord Hari himself in the person of Gauracandra. svatahsiddho vedo hari-dayita-vedha-prabhrtibhih pramanam sat-praptam pramiti-visayamstan-nava-vidhan / tatha pratyaksyadi pramiti-sahitam sadhayati no na yuktistarkakhya pravisati tatha sakti-rahitam //2// Those recipients of lord Hari's favour such as god Brahma and others recieved the self-evident Vedic knowledge from the lord himself, and so the Vedas and their supliments form the valid testimony from which are derived nine principle doctrines. Ocular perception and other forms of evidence are acceptable only so long as they concur with the Vedic revelation. Yukti that amounts to dry desputation has no foundation and cannot be accepted as valid evidence. haristvekam tattvam vidhi-siva-suresa-pranamito yad-evedam bramha prakrti-rahitam tat-tanu-mahah / paratma tasyamso jagadanugato visvajanakah sa vai radha-kanto navajalada-kantiscid-udayah //3// Sri Hari is the indivisable supreme reality to whom the gods like Vidhi, Siva, Suresh and the rest, bow in humble salutation. The light of Bramhan, which transcends the attributes of Nature, is but the refulgence of his divine body. The supreme self who is the progenitor of the universe and who has entered the universe as the indwelling monitor is the extended self (amsa) of Sri Hari. He is the embodiment of pure consciousness, bearing the dark effulgence of a rain-laden cloud and he is the divine lover of Sri Radha. Hari, the supreme being, is one without a secend. In Aryan theology the creative principle of the deity is personified in Brahma (Vidhi), and the destructive principle in Siva. Indra is the head of some lower elements of administration. Hence they are not the almighty himself but are diferent representations of different attributes. They have obtained their powers from an original fountainhead. Hence, they are subordinate beings in the service of Hari or Bhagavan. Then again, there are three distinct philosophical ideas of the deity, ie., 1) the idea of the negative Brahman of the pantheistic school, 2) the idea of the universal soul (Paramatma) of the yoga school and 3) the idea of the personal deity with all his majesty, might, glory, beauty, wisdom and supremacy combined in the person. The ideas of Brahman and Paramatman are, therefore, included in the idea of Bhagavan. Spiritually therefore, Bhagavan is Hari, the supreme being. Human ideas are either mental or spiritual. The mental idea is defective, as it has relation to the created principle of matter. The spiritual idea is certainly the nearest approach to the supreme being.e progenitor of the universe and who has entered the universe as the indwelling monitor is the extended self (amsa) of Sri Hari. He is the embodiment of pure consciousness, bearing the dark effulgence of a rain-laden cloud and he is the divine lover of Sri Radha. Hari, the supreme being, is one without a secend. In Aryan theology the creative principle of the deity is personified in Brahma (Vidhi), and the destructive principle in Siva. Indra is the head of some lower elements of administration. Hence they are not the almighty himself but are diferent representations of different attributes. They have obtained their powers from an original fountainhead. Hence, they are subordinate beings in the service of Hari or Bhagavan. Then again, there are three distinct philosophical ideas of the deity, ie., 1) the idea of the negative Brahman of the pantheistic school, 2) the idea of the universal soul (Paramatma) of the yoga school and 3) the idea of the personal deity with all his majesty, might, glory, beauty, wisdom and supremacy combined in the person. The ideas of Brahman and Paramatman are, therefore, included in the idea of Bhagavan. Spiritually therefore, Bhagavan is Hari, the supreme being. Human ideas are either mental or spiritual. The mental idea is defective, as it has relation to the created principle of matter. The spiritual idea is certainly the nearest approach to the supreme being. Hari, the supreme being, is one without a secend. In Aryan theology the creative principle of the deity is personified in Brahma (Vidhi), and the destructive principle in Siva. Indra is the head of some lower elements of administration. Hence they are not the almighty himself but are diferent representations of different attributes. They have obtained their powers from an original fountainhead. Hence, they are subordinate beings in the service of Hari or Bhagavan. Then again, there are three distinct philosophical ideas of the deity, ie., 1) the idea of the negative Brahman of the pantheistic school, 2) the idea of the universal soul (Paramatma) of the yoga school and 3) the idea of the personal deity with all his majesty, might, glory, beauty, wisdom and supremacy combined in the person. The ideas of Brahman and Paramatman are, therefore, included in the idea of Bhagavan. Spiritually therefore, Bhagavan is Hari, the supreme being. Human ideas are either mental or spiritual. The mental idea is defective, as it has relation to the created principle of matter. The spiritual idea is certainly the nearest approach to the supreme being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 What about the children to Krsnas' wives in Dwaraka, who did they see as their father? Or does this imply within Vrndavan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I can't remember clearly but in Jaiva Dharma somewhere (help would be appreciated) the question is posed; "Is our rasa with Krsna preordained or the result of the jivas free will?" Answer: "Yes and no." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam As far as i understand Jaiva Dharma says that the rasa with Krishna is inherant and cannot be chosen by free will. Jaiva Dharma Chapter 21: Vrajanatha: What does it mean to follow (anukarana) the cesta and bhavas? Babaji: According to one's eternal inherent nature (siddha-bhava) towards Krsna, some specific bhavas and cesta (endeavors) arise, and vyavahara (activities) are also manifested along with them. A sadhaka performing sambandhanuga bhakti engages himself in Krsna's service by following these bhavas, cesta and vyavahara. For instance, Nanda Maharaja has the mood of paternal affection towards Krsna, so one should follow all the endeavors that he makes to please Krsna, guided by the mood of paternal affection, but one should never consider that he himself is Nanda, Yasoda, Subala or Raktaka. Rather, one should simply follow the bhavas of these great bhaktas according to one s own ruci; otherwise, it will be an offense. Vrajanatha: Which type of raganuga-bhakti do we have the adhikara to adopt? Babaji: My son, you should scrutinize your own svabhava, and then you will see the corresponding type of devotion for which you are qualified. A particular ruci will awaken according to your inherent svabhava, and you should pursue the rasa that is indicated by that ruci. In order to cultivate that rasa, you should follow one of Krsna's eternal associates who is perfect in it. To determine rasa, it is only necessary to examine your own ruci. If your ruci is towards the path of raga, then you should act according to that ruci; and as long as inclination has not awakened for the path of raga, you should simply execute the principles of vaidhi-bhakti with firm faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I'm not sure that speaks against any free will in the equation. I should have looked up the quote if I can even find it. Chances are I mis-remembered it. Like Bob Dylan sang, "I always know my song well before I sing it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 The Ten Maxims of Sri Krishna Caitanya Sri Dasamula-niryas by Srila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura "Enjoyment and appreciation of this relationship can be experienced only through rendering service to any associates of Sri Radha-Krsna considering oneself to be submissively protected, while staying at Vrajadham. Lord Sri Krsna is eternally full of knowledge (saccit) in His constitutional form, and the knowledge of eternal bliss non-different from Him is - Srimati Radhika. The confidantes (sakhis) of all-blissful Radhika pertain to a particular mood of Herself, and accordingly, they comprise of an embodiment of array. In as much as those confidantes are the embodiment of any array under the superior energy, they are also the manifestation of the constitutional form of superior energy. When the requirement of love for Krsna is fulfilled and the living entity is purified, he is then considered to be one among the valets of those confidantes and starts enjoying eternal blissful existence, remaining ever-charged with the pleasure of offering service to Radha Krsna, which state of existence is the highest requirement of all living entities. This is really an amazing mood of the knowledge of eternal absolute truth. There is no existence of such an amazingly blissful mood in the state of liberation consequent to the annihilation of indiscriminatory Brahman. As propounded by Sri Rupa Goswami, thus - 'adau srddha tatah sadhusanga'tha bhajanakriya, tato'anartha nivrttih syattato nistha rucistatah; athasaktistato bhabastatah premabhyndancati; sadhakanamayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah syaddrdheyam ratih premnaprodyan snehah kramadayam; syaninanah pranayo rago'anurago bhava ityapi; vijamiksuh sa ca rasah sa gudah khanda eva sah; sa sarkara sita sa ca sa yatha syat sitotpala'. In the first stage, there should be respect, then an association with the saintly persons should develop out of that respect; then the processes of worshiping will start inspired by the association of the saintly persons; then there will be gradual elimi nation of various unhappy occurrences (anartha) as a result of devotional processes of worshiping; when a higher taste and inclination for leading a spiritual life will develop from the elimination of unhappy occurrences, resulting into a mood of ecstasy, which will ultimately give rise to the awakening of divine love. The other name of divine love is erotic sentiment which becomes crystallised (rati) gradually and is turned into parental affection, dignity, amorous love, transcendental mellow, attraction and a heightened mood in the final stage. This process of the development of spiritual love may very well be compared to the process of preparing sugarcane into its juice, then turning it into molasses, then into slices of candy and to sugar, and finally into alcohol and sweetmeats of various tastes of the highest degree. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Gosvami: Please consider what Srila Rupa Gosvami has said (Ujjvala-nilamani, Gauna-sambhoga-prakarana) about the great wonder of the rasas manifested in the Lord's asta-kaliya pastimes: "Because it is shoreless, peerless and unfathomable, I merely stand on the shore of the ocean of rasa and touch only one drop of its sweetness." Why should this not be so? The ocean of rasa is spiritual, wonderful, all-pervading and shoreless. If one tries to describe that spiritual ocean of rasa with words, his words will inevitably be both impure and incomplete. Even if the Supreme Lord Himself describes it, the hearers and readers, still bearing the faults that the material world impresses on them, will not be able to understand it perfectly. Therefore because the ocean of rasa cannot be fathomed, one can merely stand at its shore and understand only a single drop of it. Vijaya-kumara: O master, if this is so, then how can I have any conception at all of the spiritual rasas? Gosvami: The madhura rasa is shoreless, peerless, and unfathomable. Lord Krishna's pastimes are like that. However, Lord Krishna has two transcendental qualities that give us hope: He is all powerful and He can do whatever He likes. Therefore, even though the ocean of rasa is peerless, shoreless and unfathomable, Lord Krishna can shrink it so that it fits within the material world. The material world is indeed a very small place. Still, if Krishna wishes He can bring His supremely glorious rasas to the small and insignificant material world. In this way He mercifully descends to the material world and He takes His spiritual and eternal rasas and pastimes with Him. When He descends to the material world, he brings with Him His own spiritual world of Mathura-mandala, which is beyond the touch of matter. One cannot ask how the Lord does all this. Why not? All this is done by His inconceivable potency. Even the demigods and other exalted beings are not intelligent enough to understand how it is done. In this way the Lord manifested His Vraja pastimes, which are the best of all pastimes, and which are beyond the touch of matter. I do not lament merely because I cannot understand them perfectly or completely. Vijaya-kumara: If the Lord's prakrata (manifested) and aprakata (unmanifested) pastimes are the same pastimes, then why are the aprakata pastimes considered superior? Gosvami: These two kinds of pastimes are identical. Of this there is no doubt. They are both perfect, complete, glorious and beyond the touch of matter. However, the prakrata pastimes can be seen and remembered by conditioned souls imprisoned in the material world, but the aprakata pastimes can be seen only by purified souls who are in mature devotional service and who have attained the stage of bhavapana-dasa. O Vijaya-kumara, to you I can disclose this secret. And why not? You are qualified to hear it. By practicing smarana-dasa for a long time, one eventually becomes qualified for bhavapana-dasa. During smarana-dasa one begins to become cleansed of material contamination, but that cleansing is not complete until one attains bhavapana-dasa. By following smarana-dasa one attains pure sadhana-bhakti. In this way by the Lord's mercy, pure devotional service is manifested in the devotee's heart. That pure devotion attracts Krishna. In this way, by Lord Krishna's mercy, the devotee advances beyond smarana-dasa. This is described by the Supreme Lord Himself in these words (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.26): "When a diseased eye is treated with medicinal ointment it gradually recovers its power to see. Similarly, as a conscious living entity cleanses himself of material contamination by hearing and chanting the pious narrations of My glories, he regains his ability to see Me, the Absolute Truth, in My subtle spiritual form." This is also described in the following words of Brahman-samhita (5.38): "I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Syamasundara, situated within the heart of the devotee." A person who has attained the stage of bhavapana-dasa attains spiritual vision and thus can see his spiritual master as a sakhi and yuthesvari. He can also see Lord Krishna, the master of Goloka. Still, until his linga-sarira (subtle material body) is at last dissolved, he does not attain sampatti-dasa (the greatest good fortune) and he does not see Krishna at every moment. When he attains bhavapana-dasa, the pure soul has complete control over his gross and subtle material bodies. However, only when he attains Lord Krishna's complete and full mercy will the soul attain the final spiritual goal, where the soul completely breaks of all relationship with the material world of five elements. Bhavapana-dasa is also called 'svarupa-siddhi', and sampatti-dasa is also called 'vastu-siddhi'. Vijaya-kumara: When one attains vastu-siddhi, in what way will he see Lord Krishna's name, form, qualities, pastimes and abode? Gosvami: I cannot answer. When I myself attain vastu-siddhi, I will be able to see and tell. When you attain sampatti-siddhi you will certainly be able to understand. You will understand without any struggle. And why not? You will see it all before your eyes. You will not need to ask questions. Even what the soul sees at the stage of svarupa-siddhi or bhavapana-dasa an ordinary person cannot understand. And why not? Even if he hears a person in bhavapana-dasa describe what he sees, an ordinary person will not understand the description. The nature of a soul situated in svarupa-siddhi is described by Srila Rupa Gosvami in these words (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.3.29 and 1.4.12): "If a person is completely detached from material enjoyment and has developed pure ecstatic devotion, even if he is sometimes accidentally found not living up to the standard of devotional service, one should not be envious of him." "Only the most fortunate persons can achieve such success in life. Those who are simply academic students of the Vedic scriptures cannot appreciate how such a development takes place." Vijaya-kumara: If this is so, then why do the Brahma-samhita and other scriptures try to describe the world of Goloka? Gosvami: When by the Lord's mercy they attain the stage of svarupa-siddhi, Brahma and the demigods speak many prayers to describe what they have seen. However, ordinary persons who are less spiritually advanced cannot understand these prayers very well. Still, there is no need for the devotees to understand all these points. By Lord Krishna's mercy His prakata pastimes are manifested, and you can worship Him. By doing that you will attain all perfection. Within a short time you will attain great spiritual faith, and then the spiritual world of Goloka will be manifested before you. Gokula is the same as Goloka. And why not? Gokula and Goloka are not different places. That spiritual realm is not seen by the eyes of materialists. Materialists do not attain the stage of svarupa-siddhi. Only persons who are qualified can see these spiritual truths. Please Krishna by engaging in His devotional service. Follow Krishna's commands. By following Krishna's commands, you will gradually attain His mercy. Then your vision will be pure and perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 From Bhaktivinode Thakura: "Goloka-Vrindavana is realizable in the symbolic Vrindavana that is open to our view in this world by all persons whose Love has been perfected by the mercy of the inhabitants of Transcendental Vraja, and not other-wise. In the form of the narrative of the Bhagavatam, the Transcendental Vraja Lila manifests its descent to the plane of our mundane vision in the symbolic shapes resembling those of the corresponding mundane events. If we are disposed, for any reason, to underestimate the transcendental symbolism of the narrative of the Bhagavatam we are unable to avoid unfavorable and hasty conclusions regarding the nature of the highest, the most perfect and the most charming form of the loving service of the Divinity to which all other forms of his service are as the avenues of approach. " *************************** From the Narada-pancaratra, Radha-sahasra-nama sridamasya sakhi dama- damini dama-dharini kailasini kesini ca harid-ambara-dharini - She is Sridama's friend (sridamasya sakhi). She is glorious (dama-damini and dama-dharini). She is Parvati (kailasini). She has beautiful hair (kesini). She wears blue garments (harid-ambara-dharini). tatharjuna-sakhi bhaumi bhaimi bhima-kulodvaha bhuvana mohana ksina panasakta-tara tatha - She is Arjuna's friend (arjuna-sakhi), a resident of the earth (bhaumi), very exalted (bhaimi), born in an exalted family (bhima-kulodvaha), a resident of the material worlds (bhuvana), charming (mohana), slender (ksina), and fond of betelnuts (panasakta-tara). vatsala kausala kala karunarnava-rupini svarga-laksmir bhumi- laksmir draupadi pandava-priya - She is affectionate (vatsala), expert (kausala), beautiful (kala), and an ocean of mercy (karunarnava-rupini). She is heavenly opulence (svarga-laksmi) and earthly opulence (bhumi-laksmi). She is Draupadi (draupadi), who is dear to the Pandavas (pandava-priya). hari-bhavana-sila ca hari-tosana-tat-para hari-prana hara-prana siva-prana sivanvita - She meditates on Lord Hari (hari-bhavana-sila), and is dedicated to pleasing Lord Hari (hari-tosana-tat-para). She is Lord Hari's life and soul (hari-prana), Lord Siva's life and soul (hara-prana and siva-prana), and Lord Siva's companion (sivanvita). anviksiki sastra-rupa sastra-siddhanta-karini nagendra naga-mata ca krida-kautuka-rupini - She is the science of logic (anviksiki), the Vedas personified (sastra-rupa), the teacher of the Vedas' final conclusion (sastra-siddhanta-karini, the beloved of Lord Sesa (nagendra), the mother of the snakes (naga-mata) and playful and happy (krida-kautuka-rupini). sitala savala hela lila lavanya-mangala vidyarthini vidyamana vidya vidya-svarupini - She is pleasingly cool (sitala). She has a great variety of virtues (savala). She is happiness (hela) and playfulness (lila). She is beautiful and auspicious (lavanya-mangala). She is an earnest student (vidyarthini). She is known by the devotees (vidyamana). She is knowledge personified (vidya and vidya-svarupini). krpanvita guna gaunya gunatita-phala-prada kusmanda-bhuta-vetala- nasini saradanvita - She is merciful (krpanvita), virtuous (guna), and the most important (gaunya). She gives a result that is beyond the three modes of material nature (gunatita-phala-prada). She kills the kusmandas, bhutas, and vetalas (kusmanda-bhuta-vetala-nasini). She is glorious like autumn (saradanvita). yaga-yoga-hara bhukti- mukti-datri hiranya-da kapala-malini devi dhama-rupiny apurva-da - She gives the results of Vedic sacrififces (yaga-yoga-hara). She gives sense gratification and liberation (bhukti-mukti-datri). She gives gold (hiranya-da). As Durga-devi, She wears a garland of skulls (kapala-malini). She is a goddess (devi). Her form is splendid and glorious (dhama-rupini). She gives what has never been given before (apurva-da). kama-prakasika kaminy animady-asta-siddhi-da yamini yamini-natha- vadana yaminisvari - She is an amorous girl (kama-prakasika and kamini). She grants the eight mystic perfections, beginning with anima (animady-asta-siddhi-da). She is in control of Her senses (yamini) and She is the leader of all restrained, self-controlled girls (yamini-natha-vadana and yaminisvari). sakalepsita-datri ca saci sadhvi arundhati pati-vrata pati-prana pati-vakya-vinodini asesa-sadhani kalpa- vasini kalpa-rupini - She fulfills all desires (sakalepsita-datri). She is Saci (saci). She is saintly (sadhvi). She is Arundhati (arundhati). She is faithful to Her husband (pati-vrata). Her husband is Her very life (pati-prana). She delights in Her husband's words (pati-vakya-vinodini). She has the power to do anything (asesa-sadhani). All Her desires are automatically fulfilled (kalpa-vasini and kalpa-rupini). brahma-visnu-sivardhanga- harini saiva-simsapa raksasi-nasini bhuta- preta-prana-vinasini - She is the other half of Lord Visnu, Lord Siva, and Lord Brahma (brahma-visnu-sivardhanga-harini). She is Lord Siva's beloved (saiva-simsapa). She kills the demonesses (raksasi-nasini). She kills the bhutas and pretas (bhuta-preta-prana-vinasini). krsnartha-vyakula krsna- sara-carma-dhara subha alakesvara-pujya ca kuveresvara-vallabha - She is agitated with the desire to attain Lord Krsna (krsnartha-vyakula). She is the beloved of Lord Siva, who wears a deerskin (krsnasara-carma-dhara). She is beautiful (subha). She is worshiped by Kuvera (alakesvara-pujya) and She is dear to Kuvera's master, Lord Siva (kuveresvara-vallabha). hari-sannidhya-datri ca hari-kautuka-mangala hari-prada hari-dvara yamuna-jala-vasini - She stays by Lord Krsna's side (hari-sannidhya-datri). She is very happy to stay with Lord Krsna (hari-kautuka-mangala). She gives Lord Hari (hari-prada) and She is the door to Lord Hari (hari-dvara). She resides by the Yamuna (yamuna-jala-vasini). kandarpa-koti-janani kama-bija-pradayini kama-sastra-vinoda ca kama-sastra-prakasini - She is the mother of millions of Kamadevas (kandarpa-koti-janani). She gives the seed of the desire to attain Lord Krsna (kama-bija-pradayini). She is expert in the science of amorous pastimes (kama-sastra-vinoda and kama-sastra-prakasini). hari-bhusana-bhusadhya- nanda-yuktardra-.-ga hai-hai-tala-dhara thai-thai- sabda-sakti-prakasini - She is decorated with ornaments that decorate Lord Hari's ornaments (hari-bhusana-bhusadhya). She is blissful (ananda-yukta). She is half of Lord Lord Krsna (ardra-.-ga). She expertly beats the rhythm hai hai (hai-hai-tala-dhara) and the rhythm thai thai (thai-thai-sabda-sakti-prakasini). ugra-rupa siva-kroda krsna-kroda jalodari mahodari maha-durga- kantara-sustha-vasini - She manifests the terrible form of Durga-devi (ugra-rupa), where She sits on Lord Siva's lap (siva-kroda). She sits on Lord Krsna's lap (krsna-kroda). She rests on the milk-ocean (jalodari). She descends to the material world (mahodari). She happily lives in a great forest that is like an unapproachable fortress (maha-durga-kantara-sustha-vasini). harini harini hara- dharini kanakakrtih vidyut-prabha vipra-mata gopa-mata gayesvari - She is beautiful as a doe (harini). She is captivating (harini). She wears a beautiful necklace (hara-dharini). Her form is golden (kanakakrti). She is splendid as lightning (vidyut-prabha). She is the mother of the brahmanas (vipra-mata), the mother of the gopas (gopa-mata). and the queen of Gaya (gayesvari). krsnavatara-nirata krsna-bhakta-phalarthini yacakayacakananda- karini yacakojjvala - She devotedly serves Lord Krsna's incarnations (krsnavatara-nirata). She gives Lord Krsna's devotees the fruits of their services (krsna-bhakta-phalarthini) and whether they ask for it or not She gives them transcendental bliss (yacakayacakananda-karini). She gloriously appears before they who offer prayers to Her (yacakojjvala). bhakty-atita bhakta-gatir bhaktika siva-bhakti-da siva-sakti-svarupa ca sivardhanga-viharini - By serving Her one crosses beyond the world of repeated birth and death (bhakty-atita), She is the goal of devotional service (bhakta-gati), She is devotional service (bhaktika), She gives auspicious devotional service (siva-bhakti-da), She is an auspicious potency of the Lord (siva-sakti-svarupa), and She enjoys pastimes as the beloved who is half the body of the auspicious Lord (sivardhanga-viharini). isvari sarva-vandya ca gopaniya subhankari palini sarva-bhutanam tatha kamanga-harini - She is the supreme controller (isvari), worshiped by all (sarva-vandya), reclusive (gopaniya), the giver of auspiciousness (subhankari), the protectress of all living entities (palini sarva-bhutanam), and the wife of Lord Siva who destroyed Kamadeva's body (kamanga-harini). nilambara-vidhatri ca nilakantha-priya tatha bhagini bhagini bhogya krsna-bhogya bhagesvari - She is dressed in blue garments (nilambara-vidhatri). She is Lord Siva's beloved (nilakantha-priya). She is beautiful (bhagini, bhagini, and bhogya), Lord Krsna's happiness (krsna-bhogya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Haribol, I know we all have eternal relationship to serve Krishna. However, is it fixed? For example, are those souls serving Narayana in the Vaikuntha planets always going to be serving Narayana? Or will they ever reach Goloka Vrndavana? Similarly, if a soul is serving Krishna as father, is that his relationship forever? Or will he ever get a chance to serve in conjugal mood? I look forward to your replies. Thanks, Your Servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 It's all dynamic and there is always room for promotion if one desires, there are examples of this in scriptures. But many like Hanuman for instance have no desire to change Lords from Rama to Krishna as they are satisfied with their service. Generally in the higher rasas promotion comes down as a divine grant from the higher agents.But curiosity can get the interest of devotees to see what the goloka pastimes are doing, as with Lakshmis interest in gopis pastimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 This is the fact. daivi esa guna mayi mama maya duratyaya... Maya is all-powerful energy of Krsna. Only if I surrender 100% to Krsna will Maya, as Krsna's pure servant, release me from Her grip. Maya is under Krsna's control, and not under my control and therefore it is Krsna's lookout wether or not 'I am in Maya!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Brahman-samhita (5.38): "I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Syamasundara, situated within the heart of the devotee." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Is this more important than the crisis in our country right now due to the tragedy in Mumbai?R people more important to u than the pastimes of so called fantasy character who promised to come while evil prevades and hasnt shown up yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 So what are you trying to say? That one should be engaged in humanitarian activities and give up service to the Supreme Lord? One lady in a conversation with Prabhupada claimed that welfare work in society was the greatest thing to do. Srila Prabhupada's response was that her compassion was only as good as trying to blow on a boil to heal it. Welfare work and everything else is good but the one thing that is indispensable to human lives is trying to understand our original position in relation to the Supreme Personality. Is this more important than the crisis in our country right now due to the tragedy in Mumbai?R people more important to u than the pastimes of so called fantasy character who promised to come while evil prevades and hasnt shown up yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 So what are you trying to say? That one should be engaged in humanitarian activities and give up service to the Supreme Lord? One lady in a conversation with Prabhupada claimed that welfare work in society was the greatest thing to do. Srila Prabhupada's response was that her compassion was only as good as trying to blow on a boil to heal it. Welfare work and everything else is good but the one thing that is indispensable to human lives is trying to understand our original position in relation to the Supreme Personality. Would u feel the same way if ur near and dear ones(god willing that shouldnt happen,but just for example im telling u)was one of the affected one in the tragedy?Wont u rush to help them?Wont u be wishing that they come back to life no matter what or their pain and misery be healed or would u be concentrating on the glorious so called past times of ur lord whom u havent seen or know for sure exist?Kindness shouldnt extend for ones family but tothe whole world as such,arent all creations of ur lord?Is it worthwhile to sit like a couch potato and keep chanting krsnas name and die like ur prabupada,who couldnt make it up in the material world?Answer to all these as its all interrelated questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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