What happens if Guru begins to teach specifically what is rejected in sastra?

[krsna]

 

Like for instance the introduction of Sannyas that Sriman Mahaprabu himself spoke against in the age of Kali...?

 

Or not to accept red cloth that is spoken about by the Gosvamis...?

 

Or to teach a doctrine of parampara that totally deviates from all other Gaudiya Vaisnava Gurus back to the time of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu...?

 

Yes what would happen my dear Prabhus ? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[AncientMariner]

I don't know. I save myself all that complication by reading Bhagavad Gita As it Is by Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada's editions of Srimad Bhagavatam. Just chant and be happy.

[muralidhar_das]

These are some of the points of debate that the opponents of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami make when criticising him.

 

These ideas are all raised because of misunderstandings about the real philosophy of Sri Chaitanya and his immediate disciples.

 

<blockquote>

Like for instance the introduction of Sannyas that Sriman Mahaprabu himself spoke against in the age of Kali...?

</blockquote>

 

Many of Mahaprabhu's direct and most intimate associates were sannyasis, and indeed he himself took sannyasa. Sannyasa, monk status, is not forbidden for Gaudiya Vaishnavas, only we are advised not to take sannyasa for the purpose of false renunciation.

 

Indeed even the so-called "babajis" of Vraja and Nabadwip practice a kind of sannyasa, in which they accept the kaupina as their "vesha", and take on a new name. And it is a fact that this practice only came into existence 150 years after Mahaprabhu left this world. So the so-called babaji's cannot claim that their form of "sannyasa" is a tradition started by Mahaprabhu.

 

And don't we all know it for a fact: Madhavendra Puri, Ishwara Puri, etc.. were sannyasis.

 

<blockquote>

Or not to accept red cloth that is spoken about by the Gosvamis...?

</blockquote>

 

The statement against accepting red cloth is in Hari Bhakti Vilasa. It is in regard to wearing the ochre red cloth of the Mayavadis. However, it is a fact that Sriman Mahaprabhu, Swarup Damodar Goswami, Gadadhara Pandit, Prabhodananda Saraswati and others wore red cloth.

 

What is more, it is a fact that Hari Bhakti Vilasa is a book compiled to detail the viddhi marga rules, as a kind of guidebook about what the "orthodox" practices of worship are, but this book is not altogether relevant for the followers of Mahaprabhu. For example, there is no mention at all of the name of Sri Radha in the whole of Hari Bhakti Vilasa. Nor is there any mention of the worship of Radha Krishna anywhere in Hari Bhakti Vilasa. Rather, this book describes Vishnu worship. This book Hari Bhakti Vilasa is intended to be used for guidelines about processes of Archana, but it is not meant to be strictly followed in every detail, as regards to the daily practices prescribed for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. Indeed it's author, Sri Sanatan Goswami, (or Sri Gopala Bhatta Goswami, according to other sources), prescribed different daily practices of sadhana bhakti in his other writings.

 

<blockquote>

Or to teach a doctrine of parampara that totally deviates from all other Gaudiya Vaisnava Gurus back to the time of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu...?

</blockquote>

 

This is not true.

 

Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami followed the teachings of Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj and Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, in regards to the what constitues a "Parampara". A parampara is not merely a list of initiating gurus and their disciples. It is a list of significant Acharyas who are like lighthouses, illuminating the world, in different epochs or periods of time. This point is clear in the writings of Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj and Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, and again, in the writings of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami.

 

It is a fact that Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami did not regard the spurious and concocted notion of "Siddha Pranali" and "Guru Pranali" followed by some sects of psuedo Gaudiya Vaishnavas to be a proper Guru Parampara. According to these sects, Guru Parampara is the list of initiating gurus going back to the time of Mahaprabhu. But in Chaitanya Charitamrta this method of listing parampara is not followed. Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj lists Srila Ragunath das Goswami as the successor of Sri Swarup Damodara Goswami and not as a follower of his diksa guru, Sri Yadunandana Acharya.

 

mahaprabhura priya bhrtya - raghunatha-dasa

sarva tyaji' kaila prabhura -tale vasa

prabhu samarpila tanre svarupera hate

prabhura gupta-seva kaila svarupera sathe

Srila Raghunatha das Gosvami, the forty-sixth branch of the tree, was one of the most dear

servants of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He left all his material possessions to surrender

completely unto the Lord and live at His lotus feet. When Raghunatha das Gosvami

approached Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu at Jagannatha Puri, the Lord entrusted him to the

care of Svarupa Damodara, His secretary. Thus they both engaged in the confidential

service of the Lord.

- (Chaitanya Charitamrta Adi.11.91-92)

 

Indeed, Srila Saraswati Thakur's way of presenting his spiritual lineage, a siksa-guru parampara, was not an innovation that he concocted. Baladev Vidyabusana also presented the Parampara of Sri Chaitanya's lineage in the same way:

 

sri krsna brahma devarsi, badarayana samjnakan,

sri madhva sri padmanabha, sriman nrhari madhavan

aksobhya jaya-tirtha, sri jnanasindhu dayanidhi, sri vidyanidhi rajendra,

jayadharma kramadvayam purusottama brahmanya,

vyasa-tirthams ca samstumah, tato laksmipatim sriman,

madhavendran ca bhaktitah tac-chisyan srisvaradvaita,

nityanandan-jagat-gurun devam-isvara-sisyam-sri, caitanyan ca bhajamahe

Sri Krishna's disciple was Brahma, whose disciple was the sage of the demigods, Narada.

His disciple was Badarayana (Vyasa) whose disciple was Madhva. His disciple was

Padmanabha, whose disciple was Nrihari. His disciple was Madhva whose disciple was

Aksobhya, whose disciple was Jaya Tirtha. His disciple was Jnanasindhu, whose disciple

was Dayanidhi. His disciple was Vidyanidhi whose disciple was Jayadharma. His disciple

was Purusottama and his disciple was Brahmanya whose disciple was Vyasa Tirtha. His

disciple was Laksmipati and his disciple was Madhavendra whose disciples were Isvara,

Advaita and Nityananda the guru of the whole world. Another of his disciples was Sri

Chaitanya who we offer our respects to.

- (from Prameya Ratnavali, by Baladev Vidyabhushana)

 

The fact is Padmanabha Tirtha, Nrihari Tirtha, Madhava Tirtha and Aksobhya Tirtha were all

direct diksha (initiated) disciples of Madhva. They were not successive links in the diksha

chain. Yet Baladev Vidyabhushana states they were disciples of each other. These are all

indisputable siksha links; Padmanabha gave siksa (instruction) to Nrihari, Nrihari instucted

Madhava, etc.

 

So, Krsna, you wrote "Yes what would happen my dear Prabhus ?".

 

What would happen?

 

The answer is simple.

 

The Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition would be renewed by a visionary, a seer of Truth, who opens our eyes with the torch of knowledge and dissipates the darkness of psuedo-religion and misunderstanding.

 

How fortunate we are, that Srila Saraswati Thakur has appeared in the world!

 

Jaya Srila Saraswati Thakur!

Jaya Srila Saraswati Thakur!

Jaya Srila Saraswati Thakur!

 

[Guest guest]

for taking the time to explain these points Muralidhara prabhu. Most devotees can't seem to be bothered analizing all these subtle and blatant differences in our philosophy, it takes some concern and real sacrifice of our time to trace all these fine points, and is by no means an easy task, but if we want to have a solid faith in our real guru parampara then it helps to have a deeper understanding of the conceptions of our predesessor gurus or we may get blown over with the slightest challenges to our faith.

In short we can't be lazy minded for it is at these times that we go one way or the other. So it certainly helps to have a properly adjusted perspective on such issues.

The conceptions of the Absolute Truth run deep as do the subtlties of mis-conception. But in knowing the Truth we will simultaneously know what is misconception, and be protected from travelling down that dangerous path.

So it is to your credit and obviously that of your Guru dev that cares to guard these precious conclusions from mis representation, that your sincerity has directed you to sort through the minefield of illusions.

[Jagadananda]

I never worry since Srila Prabhupada is my guru.

 

Hare Krsna,

Jagadananda

[krsna]

I am inquiring for the sake of understanding tattva clearly[essential truths of Gaudiya-siddhanta].These challenges are forever present in the realm of 'gaudiya'discussions.

A sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such conclusions, considering them controversial,

for such discussions strengthen the mind. Thus one's mind becomes attached to Krsna." ( Cc. Adi-lila 2.117 )

 

[muralidhar_das]

There has been an ongoing debate for years and years between the people who are behind "gaudiya" discussions, and other people who have faith in Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur and Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. But in fact, nobody really needs to read the nonsense they talk about at "gaudiya" discussions anyway. "gaudiya" discussions is a place where "scholars" spend time criticizing not just Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur and Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, but even Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj and Baladeva Vidyabhusana. They are not real gaudiyas at all, at "gaudiya" discussions. They have no faith in the real Gaudiya Acharyas.

[krsna]

their wily arguments and wicked concocted logic:

 

 

In various discussions from various schools of thought we often hear

of the concept of the necessity of recieving the gayatri mantras

from a preceptor in a lineage of mahants or gurus

in order to delve into or recieve the proper result desired,i.e such and

such rasa.

 

Various noted personalities have gotten a lot

of flack recently for this concept of the necessity of gayatri mantras due to

the mantra itself being necessary for the higher revelations.

 

This is correct? Yes?

 

Where is this supported other then in the commentaries ?

 

[Guest guest]

Read Sri Guru and his Grace by Srila Sridhara Maharaj and then read his extraordinary purport, like no other, of Gayatri illumination. This conception of Gayatri in the line of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math gives ever new light to the mantra, and Srila B.S Govinda Maharaj gives further insight and connection to that service, if that is possible.

It is true that the service potency will be in that master that bestows it, for the Holy seed is a divine grant coming down through the agents of Divinity, but will also depend on the receiver-disciple.

For instance Srila Govinda Maharaj for many years received the combined blessings of both Srila Sridhara Maharaj and Srila Prabhupad through his service mood to them both he received the currant of all that is given in the Holy Names, and now finds himself in the position of giving that currant to many sincere souls throughout the world.

[Tarun]

a kidnapped wife remains faithful for life, while an arranged wife goes under another's knife?

Which is better? So-called unscrupulous or so-called orthodox?