Lord Shiva - Parabrahman

February 24, 2005

Haribol,

I humbly request that someone please explain the following verse (using guru and sastra as evidence). It shows Lord Brahma directly addressing Lord Shiva as Supreme Brahman. I thought Krishna was Supreme Brahman. It is very confusing.

SB 4.6.42: Lord Brahma said: My dear Lord Shiva, I know that you are the controller of the entire material manifestation, the combination father and mother of the cosmic manifestation, and the Supreme Brahman beyond the cosmic manifestation as well. I know you in that way.

PURPORT

Although Lord Brahma had received very respectful obeisances from Lord Shiva, he knew that Lord Shiva was in a more exalted position than himself. Lord Shiva's position is described in Brahma-samhita: there is no difference between Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva in their original positions, but still Lord Shiva is different from Lord Vishnu. The example is given that the milk in yogurt is not different from the original milk from which it was made.

Thank you,

Your Servant.

Pankaja_Dasa · February 24, 2005

haribol

It should be noted that the Vishnu/Brahma/Mahesh work together. There is maybe a link between saying Lord Shiva is Supreme, in the sense these 3 Individual entities work together for the maintenance, destruction, creation of this particular Universe. This is so far what I learned from Prabhupada books, I am being lazy and not providing any quotes, I may look later...

February 24, 2005

Simultaneously, everything is different and the same. It is said that everything is Brahman: sarvam khalv idam brahma. In the highest vision, nothing is beyond Brahman, and therefore Lord Brahma and Lord Siva are certainly nondifferent from Him. (SB 4.7.50p)

Also just like the Guru is considered to be the external representative of Paramatma, Shiva is also considered to be like that.

In this connection it is to be noted that sometimes in revealed scriptures Lord Siva is described as being nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The point is that Lord Siva and Lord Visnu are so intimately connected that there is no difference in opinion. The actual fact is, ekale isvara krsna, ara saba bhrtya: "The only supreme master is Krsna, and all others are His devotees or servants." (Cc. Adi 5.142) This is the real fact, and there is no difference of opinion between Lord Siva and Lord Visnu in this connection. Nowhere in revealed scripture does Lord Siva claim to be equal to Lord Visnu. This is simply the creation of the so-called devotees of Lord Siva, who claim that Lord Siva and Lord Visnu are one. This is strictly forbidden in the Vaisnava-tantra: yas tu narayanam devam. Lord Visnu, Lord Siva and Lord Brahma are intimately connected as master and servants. Siva-virinci-nutam. Visnu is honored and offered obeisances by Lord Siva and Lord Brahma. To consider that they are all equal is a great offense. They are all equal in the sense that Lord Visnu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and all others are His eternal servants. (SB 4.30.39p)

When Lord Siva is worshiped as Parabrahman, the worship is meant for Lord Visnu. (SB 8.7.24p)

Lord Siva is the husband of Durga, the controller of the material energy. Durga is personified material energy, and Lord Siva, being her husband, is the controller of the material energy. He is also the incarnation of the mode of ignorance and one of the three deities representing the Supreme Lord. As His representative, Lord Siva is identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (SB 3.14.29p)

There are many foolish persons who say that one can chant Hare Krsna or chant the name of Kali or Durga or Siva because they are all the same. If one thinks that the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the names and activities of the demigods are on the same level, or if one accepts the holy name of Visnu to be a material sound vibration, that is also an offense. (SB 3.15.25p)

Anyone who thinks that God and the demigods are on the same level is called an atheist, or pasandi. Even the great demigods like Brahma and Siva cannot be compared to the Supreme Lord. In fact, the Lord is worshiped by demigods such as Brahma and Siva (siva-virinci-nutam). (Bg. 4.12p)

` In the Vedas also it is stated that in the beginning there was only Visnu, Narayana; there was no Brahma or Siva. Similarly, Sankaracarya confirmed this: narayanah parah. Narayana, or Lord Visnu, is the origin, and Brahma and Siva are manifested after creation. (SB 4.7.50p)

In his constitutional form, Siva is a maha-bhagavata, a supreme devotee of the Lord, but because he accepts maya's association -- especially the quality of ignorance -- he is not free from maya's influence. Such an intimate association is completely absent in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu. Lord Siva accepts maya, but in the presence of Lord Visnu, maya does not exist. Consequently Lord Siva has to be considered a product of maya. When Lord Siva is free from maya's influence, he is in the position of a maha-bhagavata, a supreme devotee of Lord Visnu. Vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh (CC Madhya 20.311p)

Although Brahma and Siva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Visnu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rajo-guna (passion) and tamo-guna (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of maya. In other words, both Brahma and Siva are also under the influence of maya. Only Visnu is the master of maya; therefore He can alone give release to the conditioned soul. The Vedas confirm this in the phrase tam eva viditva or "Freedom is possible only by understanding Krsna." Even Lord Siva affirms that liberation can be achieved only by the mercy of Visnu. Lord Siva says: mukti-pradata sarvesam visnur eva na samsayah. "There is no doubt that Visnu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone." (Bg. 7.14p)

Demigods like Brahma and Lord Siva cannot give liberation to any living entity. As it is confirmed in Bhagavad-gita, only one who surrenders unto Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, can be liberated from the clutches of maya. (SB 3.32.12p)

In the material world everyone, including Lord Siva and Lord Brahma--to say nothing of other demigods in the heavenly planets--is subjected to the influence of sense objects, and the only method to get out of this puzzle of material existence is to become Krsna conscious. Lord Siva was deep in meditation, but when Parvati agitated him for sense pleasure, he agreed to the proposal, and as a result Kartikeya was born. (Bg. 2.62p)

ord Brahma's being captivated by the charms of his daughter and Lord Siva's being captivated by the Mohini form of the Lord are specific instances which instruct us that even great demigods like Brahma and Lord Siva, what to speak of the ordinary conditioned soul, are captivated by the beauty of woman. (SB 3.31.36p)

Of the three deities supervising the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the universe, Lord Visnu is never separate from the original Visnu. However, Lord Siva and Brahma, due to their association with maya, are different from Visnu. Visnu cannot be transformed into any form of material energy. Whenever there is association with maya, the personality involved must be different from Lord Visnu. Therefore Lord Siva and Lord Brahma are called guna-avataras, for they associate with the material qualities. The conclusion is that Rudra is a transformation of Visnu, but he is not exactly Lord Visnu. Therefore, he does not come within the category of the visnu-tattvas. Thus he is inconceivably one with Visnu and different from Him. (CC Madhya 20.309p)

kameshi · March 2, 2005

someone had sent an essay only to say that lord siva is a servant!

it is very abusive

i dont know why these people judge siva as a vestigial god!

do they have the authority to say so?

March 2, 2005

Hare Krishna

Lord Brahma says the following:

"I know you are the Supreme Brahman"

You explain that this is because Lord Shiva is guru and hence an external representation of Paramatma.

However, one would never go to the guru and say 'You are Supreme Brahman'. Is that not a great offence to the guru? Guru would say 'No i am not Supreme Brahman, I am trying to be devotee of Supreme Brahman'.

Why does Lord Brahma then address Shiva as Supreme Brahman?

Hare Krishna,

Your Servant.

March 2, 2005

Jai Ganesh

yo mam ajam anadim ca

vetti loka-mahesvaram

asammudhah sa martyesu

sarva-papaih pramucyate

It is rather sad such an attitude exist, the post previous has posted nothing but opinions

And no real shastra quotes.

This what lord Krishna says ignore it at your own cost

Of Rudra I am Shankra

. Vishnu puran 5.33.46

Yo hariH sa ZivaH sakSad yaH zivaH sa svayamM hariH

Ye tayor bhedamAti stahan narakAya bhave nnaraH

Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed.

Any human being mistake both the lord to be different, he/she surely go to hell

Brahma vaivarta puran-prakriti khanda II.56.61

Sleeping or awake, shiva is constantly absorbed in meditation on Krishna.

As I Krishna, so is Shambhu, ther is no difference between Madhava and Isa.

.

SB 8.7.20: The Devas observed Lord Śiva sitting on the summit of Kailāsa Hill with his wife, Bhavānī, for the auspicious development of the three worlds. He was being worshiped by great saintly persons desiring liberation. The devas offered him their obeisances and prayers with great respect.

SB 8.7.21: The prajāpatis said: O greatest of all Deva, Mahādeva, Supersoul of all living entities and cause of their happiness and prosperity, we have come to the shelter of your lotus feet. Now please save us from this fiery poison, which is spreading all over the three worlds.

SB 8.7.22: O lord, you are the cause of bondage and liberation of the entire universe because you are its ruler. Those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness surrender unto you, and therefore you are the cause of mitigating their distresses, and you are also the cause of their liberation. We therefore worship Your Lordship.

SB 8.7.23: O lord, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.

SB 8.7.24: You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable, impersonal Brahman, which is originally Parabrahman. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation.

SB 8.7.29: O lord, the five important Vedic mantras are represented by your five faces, from which the thirty-eight most celebrated Vedic mantras have been generated. Your Lordship, being celebrated as Lord Śiva, is self-illuminated. You are directly situated as the supreme truth, known as Paramātmā.

SB 8.7.30: O lord, your shadow is seen in irreligion, which brings about varieties of irreligious creations. The three modes of nature — goodness, passion and ignorance — are your three eyes. All the Vedic literatures, which are full of verses, are emanations from you because their compilers wrote the various scriptures after receiving your glance.

SB 8.7.31: O Lord Girīśa, since the impersonal Brahman effulgence is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not understandable even to Lord Brahmā, Lord Viṣṇu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.

From The Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva

Section XIV

Krishna -16000 Wives

The blessed Vishnu said: "I salute Mahadeva. Salutations to Thee. O Thou that art eternal origin of all things. The Rishis say that Thou art the Lord of the Vedas. The righteous say that Thou art Penance, Thou art Sattwa, Thou art Rajas, Thou art Tamas, and Thou art truth…….

The puissant Sankara then, devoted to the good of the universe, looked at the goddess Uma and the lord of the celestials and myself also, and thus spoke unto me":

"We know, O Krishna, that Thou, O slayer of foes, art filled with the greatest devotion towards us. Do what is for Thy good. My love and affection for Thee is very great. Do Thou ask for eight boons. I shall verily give them unto Thee. O Krishna, O best of all persons, tell me what they are, O chief of the Yadavas. Name what Thou wishest. However difficult of attainment they be, Thou shalt have them still".

The blessed Krishna said: "Bowing my head with great joy unto that mass of energy and effulgence, I said these words unto that great Deity, with a heart filled with gladness, -firmness in virtue, the slaughter of foes in battle, the highest fame, the greatest might, devotion to Yoga, Thy adjacence, and hundreds upon hundreds of children- these are the boons I solicit of Thee".

"So be it" said Sankara, repeating the words I had uttered. After this, the Mother of the universe, the upholder of all things, who cleanses all things, who is the spouse of Sarva (Siva), that vast receptacle of penances said with a restrained soul these words unto me:

"The puissant Mahadeva has granted Thee, O sinless one, a son who shall be named Samva. Do Thou take from me also eight boons which Thou choosest. I shall certainly grant them to Thee"

Bowing unto her my head, I said unto her:

"I solicit from thee non-anger against the Brahmanas (Brahmins), grace of my father, a hundred sons, the highest enjoyments, love for my family, the grace of my mother, the attainment of tranquillity and peace, and cleverness in every act!"

Uma said: "It shall be even so, O Thou that art possessed of prowess and puissance equal to that of a celestial. I never say what is untrue. Thou shalt have sixteen thousand wives. Thy love for them and theirs also for Thee shall be unlimited. From all Thy kinsmen also, Thou shalt receive the highest affection. Thy body too shall be most beautiful. Seven thousand guests will daily feed at Thy palace."

Vasudeva continued: "Having thus granted me boons both the god and the goddess disappeared there and then with their Ganas. All these wonderful facts, I related fully to that brahmana of great energy, viz., Upamanyu (from whom I had obtained the Diksha before adoring Mahadeva). Bowing down unto the great God, Upamanyu said these words to me" :

Upamanyu said: "There is no deity like Sarva. There is no end or refuge like Sarva. There is none that can give so many or such high boons. There is none that equals him in battle."

Now Maha Bharata is written by Ved Vyasa.

SB 8.7.33: Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities.

Let us please not demean Sanatana Dharma. If you believe without doubt that Maha Visnu or Krishna is the Supreme Lord, you are true -- since such a belief exists in the Supreme concsiousness alone. In that case, Lord Shiva will be the best aspect of the Supreme Lord. But then if you demean Shiva, you are only demeaning the Supreme Lord by demeaning His best aspect.

Similarly, if I demean Visnu, considering Shiva as the Supreme Lord (which belief also exists in the Supreme concsiousness alone), and then I demean the Supreme Lord.)

Jai Shree Krishna

The world disappears in him He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

kameshi · March 2, 2005

like the waves in an ocean is not diferent from the ocean,the creator is also non-different from the creations.

since i am a worshipper of the divine-mother sakti,i like siva

but no one will accept it, i know

it is nice that they are at least considering siva as a demigod.

Pankaja_Dasa · March 2, 2005

Think what YOU like. We don't think with material mind. We follow Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Oneness means you are also God which is what YOU want. This is Brahman realization. Go forward to Paramatma realization. That should be your quest. Because you think we are not bodies [we not] you think nobody can have spiritual body.

Krishna says in Gita, that He is Lord, and we are Jiva. All I see in your post is speculation. You cannot understand God if God doesn't say what He is. You are trying understand with your little mind. This is impossible and Krishna says in Gita this path is not good. Take some time and read-

www.asitis.com or download at-

http://www.krsnaconsciousness.org/Srimad-Bhagavad-gita.exe

Please state from scripture what you are saying. And try to see the truth. All this specuation with lead only to being Athiest or everything is one and everybody is God. Both are forces of Maya and Ego.

March 2, 2005

While many people do worship Mahadave as God, that does not mean that He is God. Those prayers were made by people who were praising Mahadave, a superior, often when praising a superior the praiser will speak allegorically or metaphorically or overstate the qualification of the person being praised. This is the case when Mahadeva was being praised.

What does Mahadave Himself say a few chapters later in the Bhagavatam?

Canto 8: Withdrawal of the Cosmic Creations Chapter 12: The Mohini-murti Incarnation Bewilders Lord Siva

SB 8.12.1-2: Sukadeva Gosvami said: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, in the form of a woman, captivated the demons and enabled the demigods to drink the nectar. After hearing of these pastimes, Lord Siva, who is carried by a bull, went to the place where Madhusudana, the Lord, resides. Accompanied by his wife, Uma, and surrounded by his companions, the ghosts, Lord Siva went there to see the Lord's form as a woman.

SB 8.12.3: The Supreme Personality of Godhead welcomed Lord Siva and Uma with great respect, and after being seated comfortably, Lord Siva duly worshiped the Lord and smilingly spoke as follows.

SB 8.12.4: Lord Mahadeva said: O chief demigod among the demigods, O all-pervading Lord, master of the universe, by Your energy You are transformed into the creation. You are the root and efficient cause of everything. You are not material. Indeed, You are the Supersoul or supreme living force of everything. Therefore, You are Paramesvara, the supreme controller of all controllers.

SB 8.12.5: The manifest, the unmanifest, false ego and the beginning, maintenance and annihilation of this cosmic manifestation all come from You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But because You are the Absolute Truth, the supreme absolute spirit soul, the Supreme Brahman, such changes as birth, death and sustenance do not exist in You.

SB 8.12.6: Pure devotees or great saintly persons who desire to achieve the highest goal in life and who are completely free from all material desires for sense gratification engage constantly in the transcendental service of Your lotus feet.

SB 8.12.7: My Lord, You are the Supreme Brahman, complete in everything. Being completely spiritual, You are eternal, free from the material modes of nature, and full of transcendental bliss. Indeed, for You there is no question of lamentation. Since You are the supreme cause, the cause of all causes, nothing can exist without You. Yet we are different from You in a relationship of cause and effect, for in one sense the cause and effect are different. You are the original cause of creation, manifestation and annihilation, and You bestow benedictions upon all living entities. Everyone depends upon You for the results of his activities, but You are always independent.

SB 8.12.8: My dear Lord, Your Lordship alone is the cause and the effect. Therefore, although You appear to be two, You are the absolute one. As there is no difference between the gold of a golden ornament and the gold in a mine, there is no difference between cause and effect; both of them are the same. Only because of ignorance do people concoct differences and dualities. You are free from material contamination, and since the entire cosmos is caused by You and cannot exist without You, it is an effect of Your transcendental qualities. Thus the conception that Brahman is true and the world false cannot be maintained.

SB 8.12.9: Those who are known as the impersonalist Vedantists regard You as the impersonal Brahman. Others, known as the Mimamsaka philosophers, regard You as religion. The Sankhya philosophers regard You as the transcendental person who is beyond prakriti and purusha and who is the controller of even the demigods. The followers of the codes of devotional service known as the Pancaratras regard You as being endowed with nine different potencies. And the Patanjala philosophers, the followers of Patanjali Muni, regard You as the supreme independent Personality of Godhead, who has no equal or superior.

SB 8.12.10: O my Lord, I, who am considered to be the best of the demigods, and Lord Brahma and the great rishis, headed by Marici, are born of the mode of goodness. Nonetheless, we are bewildered by Your illusory energy and cannot understand what this creation is. Aside from us, what is to be said of others, like the demons and human beings, who are in the base modes of material nature [rajo-guna and tamo-guna]? How will they know You?

SB 8.12.11: My Lord, You are the supreme knowledge personified. You know everything about this creation and its beginning, maintenance and annihilation, and You know all the endeavors made by the living entities, by which they are either implicated in this material world or liberated from it. As the air enters the vast sky and also enters the bodies of all moving and nonmoving entities, You are present everywhere, and therefore You are the knower of all.

SB 8.12.12: My Lord, I have seen all kinds of incarnations You have exhibited by Your transcendental qualities, and now that You have appeared as a beautiful young woman, I wish to see that form of Your Lordship.

SB 8.12.13: My Lord, we have come here desiring to see that form of Your Lordship which You showed to the demons to captivate them completely and in this way enable the demigods to drink nectar. I am very eager to see that form.

SB 8.12.14: Sukadeva Gosvami said: When Lord Vishnu was thus requested by Lord Siva, who carries a trident in his hand, He smiled with gravity and replied to Lord Siva as follows.

SB 8.12.15: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: When the demons took away the jug of nectar, I assumed the form of a beautiful woman to bewilder them by directly cheating them and thus to act in the interest of the demigods.

SB 8.12.16: O best of the demigods, I shall now show you My form that is very much appreciated by those who are lusty. Since you want to see that form, I shall reveal it in your presence.

SB 8.12.17: Sukadeva Gosvami continued: After speaking in this way, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vishnu, immediately disappeared, and Lord Siva remained there with Uma, looking for Him all around with moving eyes.

SB 8.12.18: Thereafter, in a nice forest nearby, full of trees with reddish-pink leaves and varieties of flowers, Lord Siva saw a beautiful woman playing with a ball. Her hips were covered with a shining sari and ornamented with a belt.

SB 8.12.19: Because the ball was falling down and bouncing up, as She played with it Her breasts trembled, and because of the weight of those breasts and Her heavy flower garlands, Her waist appeared to be all but breaking at every step, as Her two soft feet, which were reddish like coral, moved here and there.

SB 8.12.20: The woman's face was decorated by broad, beautiful, restless eyes, which moved as the ball bounced here and there from Her hand. The two brilliant earrings on Her ears decorated Her shining cheeks like bluish reflections, and the hair scattered on Her face made Her even more beautiful to see.

SB 8.12.21: As She played with the ball, the sari covering Her body became loose, and Her hair scattered. She tried to bind Her hair with Her beautiful left hand, and at the same time She played with the ball by striking it with Her right hand. This was so attractive that the Supreme Lord, by His internal potency, in this way captivated everyone.

SB 8.12.22: While Lord Siva observed the beautiful woman playing with the ball, She sometimes glanced at him and slightly smiled in bashfulness. As he looked at the beautiful woman and She watched him, he forgot both himself and Uma, his most beautiful wife, as well as his associates nearby.

SB 8.12.23: When the ball leaped from Her hand and fell at a distance, the woman began to follow it, but as Lord Siva observed these activities, a breeze suddenly blew away the fine dress and belt that covered her.

SB 8.12.24: Thus Lord Siva saw the woman, every part of whose body was beautifully formed, and the beautiful woman also looked at him. Therefore, thinking that She was attracted to him, Lord Siva became very much attracted to Her.

SB 8.12.25: Lord Siva, his good sense taken away by the woman because of lusty desires to enjoy with Her, became so mad for Her that even in the presence of Bhavani he did not hesitate to approach Her.

SB 8.12.26: The beautiful woman was already naked, and when She saw Lord Siva coming toward Her, She became extremely bashful. Thus She kept smiling, but She hid Herself among the trees and did not stand in one place.

SB 8.12.27: His senses being agitated, Lord Siva, victimized by lusty desires, began to follow Her, just as a lusty elephant follows a she-elephant.

SB 8.12.28: After following Her with great speed, Lord Siva caught Her by the braid of Her hair and dragged Her near him. Although She was unwilling, he embraced Her with his arms.

SB 8.12.29-30: Being embraced by Lord Siva like a female elephant embraced by a male, the woman, whose hair was scattered, swirled like a snake. O King, this woman, who had large, high hips, was a woman of yogamaya presented by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She released Herself somehow or other from the fond embrace of Lord Siva's arms and ran away.

SB 8.12.31: As if harassed by an enemy in the form of lusty desires, Lord Siva followed the path of Lord Vishnu, who acts very wonderfully and who had taken the form of Mohini.

SB 8.12.32: Just as a maddened bull elephant follows a female elephant who is able to conceive pregnancy, Lord Siva followed the beautiful woman and discharged semen, even though his discharge of semen never goes in vain.

SB 8.12.33: O King, wheresoever on the surface of the globe fell the semen of the great personality of Lord Siva, mines of gold and silver later appeared.

SB 8.12.34: Following Mohini, Lord Siva went everywhere -- near the shores of the rivers and lakes, near the mountains, near the forests, near the gardens, and wherever there lived great sages.

SB 8.12.35: O Maharaja Parikshit, best of kings, when Lord Siva had fully discharged semen, he could see how he himself had been victimized by the illusion created by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus he restrained himself from any further maya.

SB 8.12.36: Thus Lord Siva could understand his position and that of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has unlimited potencies. Having reached this understanding, he was not at all surprised by the wonderful way Lord Vishnu had acted upon him.

SB 8.12.37: Seeing Lord Siva unagitated and unashamed, Lord Vishnu [Madhusudana] was very pleased. Thus He resumed His original form and spoke as follows.

SB 8.12.38: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: O best of the demigods, although you have been amply harassed because of My potency in assuming the form of a woman, you are established in your position. Therefore, may all good fortune be upon you.

SB 8.12.39: My dear Lord Sambhu, who within this material world but you can surpass My illusory energy? People are generally attached to sense enjoyment and conquered by its influence. Indeed, the influence of material nature is very difficult for them to surmount.

SB 8.12.40: The material, external energy [maya], who cooperates with Me in creation and who is manifested in the three modes of nature, will not be able to bewilder you any longer.

SB 8.12.41: Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, having thus been praised by the Supreme Personality, who bears the mark of Srivatsa on His chest, Lord Siva circumambulated Him. Then, after taking permission from Him, Lord Siva returned to his abode, Kailasa, along with his associates.

SB 8.12.42: O descendant of Bharata Maharaja, Lord Siva, in jubilation, then addressed his wife, Bhavani, who is accepted by all authorities as the potency of Lord Vishnu.

SB 8.12.43: Lord Siva said: O Goddess, you have now seen the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the unborn master of everyone. Although I am one of the principal expansions of His Lordship, even I was illusioned by His energy. What then is to be said of others, who are fully dependent on maya?

SB 8.12.44: When I finished performing mystic yoga for one thousand years, you asked me upon whom I was meditating. Now, here is that Supreme Person to whom time has no entrance and who the Vedas cannot understand.

SB 8.12.45: Sukadeva Gosvami said: My dear King, the person who bore the great mountain on His back for the churning of the ocean of milk is the same Supreme Personality of Godhead, known as Sarnga-dhanva. I have now described to you His prowess.

SB 8.12.46: The endeavor of one who constantly hears or describes this narration of the churning of the ocean of milk will never be fruitless. Indeed, chanting the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the only means to annihilate all sufferings in this material world.

SB 8.12.47: Assuming the form of a young woman and thus bewildering the demons, the Supreme Personality of Godhead distributed to His devotees, the demigods, the nectar produced from the churning of the ocean of milk. Unto that Supreme Personality of Godhead, who always fulfills the desires of His devotees, I offer my respectful obeisances.

kameshi · March 2, 2005

you want me to accept krishna/vishnu is supreme isnt it?

may be i dont have enough punya to worship him

i tried to understand bhagvat gita but i could only find it as a one-man-show

can u tell any reason for the gita to be the ultimate?

does the "supreme one" fit into the concepts of the protector or the destroyer??

of the trimurtis,how come one became supreme while others "demi" ??

kameshi · March 2, 2005

what is material mind?

with which mind u think? please tell to me since i am ignorant about such mysterious things .

All you see in my post is speculation,isnt it.

everything that disobeys gita is speculation!

March 3, 2005

You seem to have a problem with monotheism. You say the Gita is all about a one man show. Well that is what the Vedic teachings teach. All of the various religions based on the Vedic literature are monotheistic. The Vaisnavas say that God is calle Vishnu or Vishnu's various avatars, the Shaivites say that one supreme being is Shiva, the Shaktas say that one supreme being is the Goddess Devi, the Advaitins say that one supreme being is Brahman. All of the Vedic religions teach that there is one all pervading entity. All but the Advaitins teach that the all pervading entity is a conscious person who both controls everything and creates everything from His/Her own being, and also exists in more dimensions or realms not visible in the 3 dimensional universe. This is called Panentheism.

All of these Vedic religions are based on the Vedas.

Here is what they say.

vishvatashchakshushruta vishvatomukho vishvato baahuruta vishvataspaat I

sam baahubhyaam dhamati sam patatrairdyaavaabhumi janayandeva ekah II

'He who hath eyes on all sides round about him, a mouth on all sides, arms and feet on all sides,

He, the one God, producing earth and heaven, welds them, with his all-spreading arms as wings, together.'

- rig veda 10.81.3

rig veda 10.114.5 - suparnam vipraah kavayo vachobhir ekam santam bahudhaa kalpayanti -

"The wise in their hymns represent in many ways the fine-winged (God), Who is but one."

indram mitram varunamagnimaahuratho divyah sa suparno garutmaan I

ekam sadvipraa bahudhaa vadantyagnim yamam matarishvaanamaahuh II

They call Him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni and He is the shining Suparna Garutmaan. The sages describe the One Being (sat) in various ways (ekam sadvipraa bahudhaa vadanti). They call Him Agni, Yama, Matarishvan

yo nah pitaa janitaa yo vidhaataa dhaamaani veda bhuvanaani vishvaa I

yo devaanaam naamadhaa eka eva tam samprashnam bhuvanaa yantyanyaa II

'Our Father who is our creator and disposer, knows all the worlds and all things existing;

He is one alone, the name-giver of all devas. Him other beings attain (for) He is the only solution for all our interrogations.'

- rig veda 10.82.3

om nadvitiye na tritiiyashchaturtho napyuchyate II

na panchamo na shashthah saptamo naapyuchyate II

naashtamo na navamo dashamo naapyuchyate II

tamidam nigatam sah sa esha eka ekavrideka eva II

'He is called neither the second, nor the third, nor yet the fourth. He is called neither the fifth nor the sixth nor yet the seventh. He is called neither the eighth nor the nineth nor yet the tenth. He takes care of all that breathes and all that does not breathe. He has all this conquering power. He is one, one alone and only one.'

- atharva veda 12.4.19-21

ya eka ittamushtuhi krshtiinaam vicharshanih I

patirchajne vrshatratuh II

O man! Praise God who is One and One only, and who is the Omniscient and Omnipotent Lord of all beings.

-Rig veda 6.45.16

aapo ha yadbrhatiirvishvamaayangarbham dadhaanaa janayantiiragnim I

tato devaanaam samavartataasurekah kasmai devaaya havisha vidhema II

rig veda 10.121.7

yashchidaapo mahinaa paryapashyad daksham dadhaana janayantiryajnam II

rig veda 10.121.8

When this vast diffused matter producing an igneous condition and holding in its womb this universe, manifested itself, then He was the One life of all shining objects; He it is to Whom we offer our prayers.

He who with His greatness looked on that diffused Matter possessed of heat and energy and producing the cosmos, Who is the Supreme Lord (Adhi Deva) of bright things (devas). He it is to Whom we shall offer our prayers

Rigveda 8.1.1 and Sama Veda 342, we find the Vedic injunction -

maa chidanyadvi shansata sakhaayo maa rishanyata I

indra mitstotaa vrshanam sachaa sute muhurukthaa cha shansata II

O ye friends! Do not glorify any other being than God, so that sorrows and sufferings may not trouble you. Praise Mighty God alone Who is the showerer of all blessings and repeatedly pronounce the sacred hymns together in all your congregations

eka eva namasyo vikshvityah II

One God alone is to be worshipped by all people. He is worthy of worship.

- Atharva veda 2.2.1

eka eva namasyah sushevaah II

One God alone who is the Giver of true happiness and bliss is to be worshipped by all.

- Atharva veda 2.2.2

From the Rig Veda, comes the famous Purusha Shukta [Purusa Sukta]. Arguably the oldest known writings of humanity. Here we get the gist of the monotheistic panentheism of Vedic teachings. All of creation, nature, the Devas (demigods), humans, everything in existence is born from Purusha, the original being, all is created by Purusha, and all is comprised of Purusha.

Here is the Purusha Shukta

Peace Invocation

Om taccham yoravrini mahe

ghatun yajnaya

ghatun yajnapataye

daivi svastirastu naha

svastir manushebhyaha

urdhvam jigatu bheshajam

sham no astu dvipade

sham chatushpade

Om shantih shantih shantihi

We worship and pray to the Supreme Lord for the welfare of all beings. May all miseries and shortcomings leave us forever so that we may always sing for the Lord during the holy fire ceremonies. May all medicinal herbs grow in potency so that all diseases may be cured. May the gods rain peace on us. May all the two-legged creatures be happy, and may all the four-legged creatures also be happy. May there be peace in the hearts of all beings in all realms.

Text One

Om sahasra shirsha purushaha

sahasrakshas sahasrapat

sa bhumim vishvato vritva

atyatishthad dhashangulam

The Purusha (the Supreme Being) has a thousand heads, a thousand eyes and a thousand feet. He has enveloped this world from all sides and has (even) transcended it by ten angulas or inches.

Text Two

purusha evedagam sarvam

yadbhutam yaccha bhavyam

utamritatva syeshanaha

yadanne natirohati

All this is verily the Purusha. All that which existed in the past or will come into being in the future (is also the Purusha). Also, he is the Lord of immortality. That which grows profusely by food (is also the Purusha).

Text Three

etavanasya mahima

ato jyayagamshcha purushaha

padosya vishva bhutani

tripadasya mritam divi

So much is His greatness. However, the Purusha is greater than this. All the beings form only a quarter (part of) Him. The three-quarter part of His, which is eternal, is established in the spiritual domain.

Text Four

tripadurdhva udaitpurushaha

padosyeha bhavatpunaha

tato vishvajya kramat

sashana ashane abhi

The Purusha with the three-quarters (of His energy) ascended above (the spiritual energy). His one quarter of material energy becomes this creation again (and again). Then He pervades this universe comprising a variety of sentient beings and insentient objects.

Text Five

tasmad viradajayata

virajo adhi purushah

sa jato atyarichyata

pashchad bhumimatho puraha

From Him (the Adipurusha or original Supreme Being) was born the Virat (or Virat Purusha, the immense universal form). Making this Virat as the substratum (another) purusha (or being, Brahma) (was born). As soon as he was born, he multiplied himself. Later, he created this earth and then, the bodies (of the living beings).

Text Six

yatpurushena havisha

deva yajnam atanvata

vasanto asyasidajyam

grishma idhmash sharaddhavihi

When the devas (the demigods or beings of light) performed a yajna (or sacrificial ritual), using the Purusha as the havis (sacrificial material) for the yajna (ritual), the Vasanta (spring) became the ajya (ghee), the Grishma (summer) served as idhma (pieces of wood) and the sharad (autumn) filled the place of havis (oblatory material like the purodasha or rice-cake).

Text Seven

saptasyasan paridhayaha

trissapta samidhah kritaha

deva yadjajnam tanvanaha

abadhnan purusham pashum

For this (yajna or spiritual ceremony) there were seven paridhis (fuel pieces serving as borders). And, twenty-one items were made the samit or sacrificial fuel sticks. When the devas were performing this yajna or ceremony, they tied the purusha (himself) as the pashu (sacrificial animal).

Text Eight

tam yajnam barhishipraukshan

purusham jatamagrataha

tena deva ayajantaha

sadhya rishayashchaye

The devas, the sadhyas and the rishis performed the sacrifice by using that Purusha as the means of yajna, the Purusha who had been born in the beginning, after sprinkling him with water by the barhis (or sacrificial grass).

Text Nine

tasmad yajnat sarvahutaha

sambhritam vrishadajyam

pashugamstya gashchakre

vayavyan aranyan gramashcaye

From that yajna (or sacrificial ritual) wherein the Cosmic Being was Himself the oblation, was produced the prasajya (or curds mixed with ghee). Birds flying in the air, wild animals of the forest as also the domesticated animals of the villages were also produced.

Text Ten

tasmad yajnat sarvahutaha

richassamani jijignire

chandhagamsi jijignire tasmat

yajus tasmad ajayata

From that yajna (or sacrifice) wherein the Cosmic Being was Himself the oblation, were born the riks (the mantras of the Rig-veda) and the samans (the mantras of the Sama-veda). From that (yajna) the metres (like Gayatri) were born. From that (yajna again) the yujas (the Yajur-veda) was born.

Text Eleven

tasmadashva ajayata

ye ke cobhaya dataha

gavo ha jijignire tasmat

tasmad jnata ajavayaha

From that were born the horses, as also animals (like donkeys and mules) which have two rows of teeth. From that were born the cattle. From that (again) were born goats and sheep.

Text Twelve

yatpurusham vyadadhuhu

kadhita vyakalpayan

mukham kimasya kau bahu

kavuru padavuchayate

(Now some questions are raised by the sages:) When the gods decided to (mentally) sacrifice the Viratpurusha (and produce further creation), in how many ways did they do it? What became of his face or mouth? What became of his two arms? What became of His two thighs? What were (the products of) the two feet called?

Text Thirteen

brahmanosya mukhamasit

bahu rajanyah kritaha

uru tadasya yadvaishyaha

padhyagam shudro ajayata

From His face (or the mouth) came the brahmanas. From His two arms came the rajanya (the kshatriyas). From His two thighs came the vaishyas. From His two feet came the shudras.

Text Fourteen

chandrama manaso jataha

chakshoh suryo ajayata

mukhad indrash chagnishcha

pranadvayur ajayata

From His mind was born the moon. From His two eyes was born the sun. From His mouth were born Indra and Agni. From His breath was born the air.

Text Fifteen

nabhya asidanta riksham

shirshno dyauh samavartata

padhyam bhumirdishash shrotrat

tada lokagamm akalpayan

From (His) navel was produced the antariksha (the space between the earth and the heavens). Dyuloka (or heaven) came into existence from His head. The bhumi (the earth) evolved out of His feet, and deek (or spacial directions) from His ears. Similarly (the demigods) produced the worlds (too).

Text Sixteen

vedahametam purusham mahantam

adityavarnam tamasastu pare

sarvani rupani vichitya dhiraha

namani kritva abhivadan yadaste

"I know (through intuitive experience) this great Purusha (the Supreme Being), the wise one, who, having created the various forms and the nomenclatures (for those forms), deals with them by those names, and who is beyond darkness and is brilliant like the sun."

Text Seventeen

dhata purastadya mudajahara

shakrah pravidvan pradishashcha tasraha

tamevam vidvan amrita iha bhavati

nanyah pantha ayanaya vidyate

In the ancient days, Prajapati (Brahma) praised Him. Indra who knows all the four quarters also spoke about Him. Anyone who knows Him thus, will become immortal even in this life. For attaining liberation there is no other path (than knowledge of this Purusha, the Supreme Lord).

Text Eighteen

yajnena yajnam ayajanta devaha

tani dharmani pradhamanyasan

te ha nakam mahimanas sacante

yatra purve sadhyah santi devaha

The (demi)gods worshiped (the Supreme Creator in the form of) yajna through yajna (sacrifical ceremonies). Those very processes became the primary dharmas (laws guiding humanity). Those great ones attain that heaven where the ancient devas (demigods) and sadhyas live.

Text Nineteen

adbhyas sambhutah prithivyai rasacca

vishvakarmanas samavartatadhi

tasya tvashta vidadhad rupameti

tatpurushasya vishvamajanamagre

The Viratpurusha manifested Himself from out of (the all-pervading) water as also the essence of the element of earth. This Viratpurusha was born out of the greatness of the Paramapurusha, the Creator. The (Paramapurusha, known as) Tvashta engaged Himself in the act of creating (the fourteen planetary systems), (which form of the expanded) figure (of the Viratpurusha). (Thus) the entire creation (related to the Viratpurusha) came into existence in the very beginning of creation.

Text Twenty

vedahametam purusham mahantam

adityavarnam tamasah parastat

tamevam vidvan amrita iha bhavati

nanyah pantha vidyate'yanaya

"I have known that great Purusha (Supreme Being) who is brilliant like the sun and who is beyond all darkness. One who knows Him thus becomes immortal (even) here. There is no other path for liberation than this."

Text Twenty-one

prajapatishcharati garbhe antaha

ajayamano bahudha vijayate

tasya dhirah parijananti yonim

marichinam padamicchanti vedhasaha

Prajapati (the Supreme Creator) moves inside the cosmic womb. (Though) unborn He takes birth in a variety of ways. The wise ones know His (real nature) as the origin (of the universe). The (secondary) creators desire to attain the positions of Marichi and others.

Text Twenty-two

yo devebhya atapati

yo devanam purohitaha

purvo yo devebhyo jataha

namo ruchaya brahmaye

Obeisances to Him, the self-luminous Brahman, who shines for the (demi)gods, who is the leader of the rituals of the gods and who was born even before the gods.

Text Twenty-three

rucham brahmam janayantaha

deva agre tadabruvan

yastvaivam brahmano vidyat

tasya deva asanvashe

In the beginning of creation, the gods, manifesting the light of Brahman, addressed Brahman thus: "That brahmana who realizes (You) thus, all the gods will come under his control."

Twenty-four

hrishcha te lakshmishcha patnyau

ahoratre parshve

nakshatrani rupam

ashvinau vyattam

ishtam manishana

amun manishana

sarvam manishana

Om shanti shanti shantihi

O Purusha! The goddesses Hri (modesty) and Sri (Lakshmi, wealth) are Your consorts. Day and night are Your lateral limbs. The stars are Your form. The Ashvins are your widely opened (mouth). (O Purusha) fulfill our desire for self-knowledge as also our desire for the enjoyments of this world (like longevity, cows, and horses). Give us all that we need. Om, let there be peace, peace, peace.

As far as the Tri Murti, it appears that you have not studied the Vedic religions very much. The Tri Murti is seen different ways by different religions. But they all teach that either Vishnu is God and Shiva and Brahma are servants of Vishu, or that Shiva is God and Vishnu and Brahma are his servants, or that the Goddess Devi is God and that all three of the Tri Murti are subordinate to Her in some way or another. The Advaitins consider the Tri Murti to be subordinate to Brahman.

kameshi · March 3, 2005

"..they tied the purusha (himself) as the pashu (sacrificial animal)."

you mean the yajnas promote sacrifice of animals?!!!!!

the vedas, i consider as the true word of the supreme one.

since rig-veda says that purusha is the supreme one,it is true.

the aim of the later gods(in the later yugas) may be to claim and prove that 'I am the purusha'

since the purusha has a womb, he should not be completely male.he also seem to possess the feminine aspects mixed with him

does this purusha have anything to do with the trimurtis?

is he one among them?(i mean vishnu)

or is he krishna?

please tell me the verse which tell this.

March 3, 2005

Different traditions have their own way to explain the meaning of the Vedas. The Vedas include the Upanishads, they are considered to be the philosophical part of the Vedas. The Vedas are split into 4 categories.

The Samhitas - Contains the mantras and hymns

The Brahmanas - The ritualistic teachings

The Aranyakas - The meditational section

The Upanishads - The mystic and philosophical section

The basic teaching is that the Vedas are the eternal teachings that have been revealed to great sages by God, and also revealed by Avatars of God. The Bhagavad Gita is considered to be on the same level as the Vedas even though it is from The Mahabharata. Every tradition that calls itself Vedic will claim to be the correct one, so I can't tell you what you should believe, follow your heart.

As far as sacrifice or Yagna, this article gives a good explanation.

Vedic sacrificial philosophy

kameshi · March 3, 2005

somebody said:"..While many people do worship Mahadave as God, that does not mean that He is God. Those prayers were made by people who were praising Mahadave, a superior, often when praising a superior the praiser will speak allegorically or metaphorically or overstate the qualification of the person being praised. This is the case when Mahadeva was being praised...."

the poster is saying that the part of the scripture where 'siva parameswara' is being praised is false and that part praising vishnu is true.and that the praisers are lying when they are praising siva!!

according to the poster,they could be true only if they praised vishnu or krishna!!

from this viewpoint of him, i can realise what is to be expected from those who think like him.

he also wrote that siva says:

"..even I was illusioned by His energy. What then is to be said of others, who are fully dependent on maya.."

it is true that nobody can escape Mahamaya or yogamaya or vishnumaya as whatever she is called.it is obvious that siva was also attracted by Devi.

he quotes "..My dear Lord Sambhu, who within this material world but you can surpass My illusory energy?.."

here,vishnu is making it clear that it was just illusion and not the truth.most people are still immersed in illusions and dont want to hear the truth!!

sumedh · March 3, 2005

Hare Krishna

the poster is saying that the part of the scripture where 'siva parameswara' is being praised is false and that part praising vishnu is true.and that the praisers are lying when they are praising siva!!

according to the poster,they could be true only if they praised his favourite god!!

from this viewpoint of him, i can realise what is to be expected from those who think like him.

Dear friend, this is a very unfair criticism that you indulge in. You accuse others of something which you yourself are also guilty of; so it will be better to not pass such judgements.

it is true that nobody can escape Mahamaya or yogamaya or vishnumaya as whatever she is called.it is the Tamo-guna based form of the Devi which makes vishnu fall into sleep of utter ignorance(yoga-nidra)

only when the Maya-roopini devi leaves his body,he awakes from his sleep on the snake.(read from devi bhagavata)

Mahamaya and yogamaya are different aspects of the para-sakti; the former is the illusory potency and this material world while the latter is internal potency of the Lord and manifests the spiritual world.

In the same devi bhagavatam we read in Canto 9, Chapter 1

Out of the Will of Sri Krishna, to create the world Whose Will is all in all, came out at once the Mula Prakriti, the Great Devi Isvari, (the Lady Controller of the Universe) Brahma with Maya in a state of equilibrium). By Her command came out five Forms of Her, either for the purpose of creation or for bestowing Favour and Grace to the Bhaktas (devotees). Durga the Mother of Ganesa, comes, as the first, the most auspicious, loved by Siva. She is Narayani, Visnu Maya,

...

She is sung in the Vedas and in other Sastras as the Maha Maya, of the nature of the Universe. In reality, She is the All-Sakti of the Universe and She is the Sakti of Krishna.

The second Sakti of the Paramatman is named Padma (Lakshmi). She is of the nature of Suddha Sattva (Higher than Sattva Guna) and is Krishna’s Presiding Deity of all wealth and prosperity. This very beautiful Lakshmi Devi is the complete master of the senses; She is of a very peaceful temper, of good mood and all-auspicious. She is free from greed, delusion, lust, anger, vanity and egoism. She is devoted to Her husband and to Her Bhaktas; Her words are very sweet and She is very dear to Her husband, indeed, the Life and Soul of Him. This Devi is residing in all the grains and vegetables and so She is the Source of Life of all the beings. She is residing in Vaikuntha as Maha Lakshmi, chaste and always in the service of Her husband.

then referring to maha-kali devi

Whom guarantees success to every person, whom is superior to everything and of a Yogic nature, whom is extremely devoted to Lord Krishna, The Divine Supreme Individuality and is as fierce as Him, greatly competent and valiant, whose body has blackened due to constant meditation on the Lord Sri Krishna, Who can destroy in one breath this whole Brahmanda

So really the issue is not as simple as you think. Some persons not being able to understand the various seemingly contradictions of the scriptures come up with their own harmonizing theories or dismiss them altogether; the scriptures are coming from the transcendental platform and even though we think so it is not possible to understand them by scholarly study. If you think you already know the Truth then there is nothing to discuss; but otherwise we should pray to the Lord with greatest humility to help us know the Truth. The question is not of favourite god but the Truth, and the recommended way to get there is to approach a bona-fide Spiritual Master.

kameshi · March 4, 2005

Well done .

sumedh · March 4, 2005

clear this up and not take any credit for those quotes. Read the title of the posts "from shiva", they were from shivaji and not from myself.

Dear kameshi, i think you are on the wrong forum. If you want to level criticisms then do it either logically or using scriptural references; your mentality is only offensive to all those who will not agree with you. You do not have the slightest idea of what my position or shiva prabhu's position is, but due to your preconceived notions you judge it as abusive for Lord Shiva or Goddess Durga. As for your question of the position of Lord Shiva, it is already stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.13.16

nimna-ganam yatha ganga

devanam acyuto yatha

vaishnavanam yatha sambhuh

purananam idam tatha

TRANSLATION

Just as the Ganga is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Sambhu [siva] the greatest of Vaishnavas, so Srimad-Bhagavatam is the greatest of all Puranas.

So as "Vaishnavam yatha Shambhu", Lord Shiva is considered the topmost Guru by us but this is abusive in your eyes even if it may be true.

From your previous posts, your other problem seems to be the "battle of sexes", but you have hardly any idea that the Supreme Lord has got to do nothing with our mundane conceptions of male/female; if you want to know more then you need to correct your mentality and ask frankly.

kameshi · March 4, 2005

please forgive if anyone felt my questions as offensive

i regret for the criticisms without logic and without using scriptural references

indeed i am in the wrong forum

i am leaving

sorry for the disturbance

March 8, 2005

One of the Vednata sutras, says '..Samanvayath'

Which means, consider all the sources of information and reconcile. not to accept whatever is suitable and label whatever is not suitable as 'unimportant'.

Different Puranas describe different gods as supreme, the secret it to reconcile.

WHat Purana is better than Srimad Bhagavatha and what Itihasa is better than Bharatha which has Bhgavadgita. It would be blind if anyone referring to these do not get the impression that Hari is Supreme, Devoid of defects and full of good qualities and capabilities.

All names in the vedas refer to only Hari, different names are given to different gods depending on what qualities they get from the grace of the supreme.

Going into individual Puranas can make one lost. only a Guru can help. Realization of the supreme has therefore be done through a qualified Guru.

It is simple at beautiful, whatever level you compare Gods, Krishna who is Hari stands supreme, he himself has said so and cannot be more explicit in saying that in the Gita.

Should be no problem being accused of being an extremist here, this is a Vaishnava forum.

Haria-eva Paro, Harir-eva Guru, Harir-eva Jagat Pitru, Matru, Gathihi

December 8, 2005

Your website is beautiful, informative and Excellant.

Article by M.P. Bhattathiri, Retired Chief Technical Examiner , to The Govt. of Kerala. Humble request that it may be published in your website and magazine after editing if necessary.

Bhagavad Gita and management

Mind is very restless, forceful and strong, O Krishna, it is more difficult to control the mind than to control the wind ~ Arjuna to Sri Krishna

Introduction

The ancient Hindu philosophy of keepiing mind and body for the well being, has entered the managerial, medical and judicial domain of the world. Today it has found its place as an alternative to the theory of modern management and also as a means to bring back the right path of peace and prosperity for the human beings. One of the greatest contributions of India to the world is Holy Gita which is considered to be one of the first revelations from God. The Bhagavad-Gita is the essence of Vedic Literature and a complete guide to practical life. It provides “all that is needed to raise the consciousness of man to the highest possible level.” , reveals the deep, universal truths of life that speak to the needs and aspirations of everyone. Arjuna got mentally depressed when he saw his relatives with whom he has to fight.( Mental health has become a major international public health concern now). To motivate him the Bhagavad Gita is preached in the battle field Kurukshetra by Lord Krishna to Arjuna as a counseling to do his duty while multitudes of men stood by waiting . It has got all the management tactics to achieve the mental equilibrium and to overcome any crisis situation. The Bhagavad Gita can be experienced as a powerful catalyst for transformation. Bhagavad gita means song of the Spirit, song of the Lord. The Holy Gita has become a secret driving force behind the unfoldment of one's life. In the days of doubt this divine book will support all spiritual search.This divine book will contribute to self reflection, finer feeling and deepen one's inner process. Then life in the world can become a real education—dynamic, full and joyful—no matter what the circumstance. May the wisdom of loving consciousness ever guide us on our journey. What makes the Holy Gita a practical psychology of transformation is that it offers us the tools to connect with our deepest intangible essence and we must learn to participate in the battle of life with right knowledge.

The Holy Gita is the essence of the Vedas, Upanishads. It is a universal scripture applicable to people of all temperaments and for all times. It is a book with sublime thoughts and practical instructions on Yoga, Devotion, Vedanta and Action. It is profound in thought and sublime in heights of vision. It brings peace and solace to souls that are afflicted by the three fires of mortal existence, namely, afflictions caused by one’s own body (disease etc), those caused by beings around one (e.g. wild animals, snakes etc.), and those caused by the gods (natural disasters, earth-quakes, floods etc).

Mind can be one's friend or enemy. Mind is the cause for both bondage and liberation. The word mind is derived from man to think and the word man derived from manu (sanskrit word for man).

"The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy."

There is no theory to be internalized and applied in this psychology. Ancient practices spontaneously induce what each person needs as the individual and the universal coincide. The work proceeds through intellectual knowledge of the playing field(jnana yoga), emotional devotion to the ideal(bhakti yoga) and right action that includes both feeling and knowledge(karma yoga). With ongoing purification we approach wisdom. The Bhagavad Gita is a message addressed to each and every human individual to help him or her to solve the vexing problem of overcoming the present and progressing towards a bright future. Within its eighteen chapters is revealed a human drama. This is the experience of everyone in this world, the drama of the ascent of man from a state of utter dejection, sorrow and total breakdown and hopelessness to a state of perfect understanding, clarity, renewed strength and triumph.

Introduction

Management has become a part and parcel of everyday life, be it at home, in the office or factory and in Government. In all organizations, where a group of human beings assemble for a common purpose, management principles come into play through the management of resources, finance and planning, priorities, policies and practice. Management is a systematic way of carrying out activities in any field of human effort.

Its task is to make people capable of joint performance, to make their weaknesses irrelevant, says the Management Guru Peter Drucker. It creates harmony in working together - equilibrium in thoughts and actions, goals and achievements, plans and performance, products and markets. It resolves situations of scarcity, be they in the physical, technical or human fields, through maximum utilization with the minimum available processes to achieve the goal. Lack of management causes disorder, confusion, wastage, delay, destruction and even depression. Managing men, money and materials in the best possible way, according to circumstances and environment, is the most important and essential factor for a successful management.

Management guidelines from the Bhagavad Gita

There is an important distinction between effectiveness and efficiency in managing.

· Effectiveness is doing the right things.

· Efficiency is doing things right.

The general principles of effective management can be applied in every field, the differences being more in application than in principle. The Manager's functions can be summed up as:

· Forming a vision

· Planning the strategy to realise the vision.

· Cultivating the art of leadership.

· Establishing institutional excellence.

· Building an innovative organisation.

· Developing human resources.

· Building teams and teamwork.

· Delegation, motivation, and communication.

· Reviewing performance and taking corrective steps when called for.

Thus, management is a process of aligning people and getting them committed to work for a common goal to the maximum social benefit - in search of excellence.

The critical question in all managers’ minds is how to be effective in their job. The answer to this fundamental question is found in the Bhagavad Gita, which repeatedly proclaims that “you must try to manage yourself.” The reason is that unless a manager reaches a level of excellence and effectiveness, he or she will be merely a face in the crowd.

Old truths in a new context

The Bhagavad Gita, written thousands of years ago, enlightens us on all managerial techniques leading us towards a harmonious and blissful state of affairs in place of the conflict, tensions, poor productivity, absence of motivation and so on, common in most of Indian enterprises today – and probably in enterprises in many other countries.

The modern (Western) management concepts of vision, leadership, motivation, excellence in work, achieving goals, giving work meaning, decision making and planning, are all discussed in the Bhagavad Gita. There is one major difference. While Western management thought too often deals with problems at material, external and peripheral levels, the Bhagavad Gita tackles the issues from the grass roots level of human thinking. Once the basic thinking of man is improved, it will automatically enhance the quality of his actions and their results.

The management philosophy emanating from the West, is based on the lure of materialism and on a perennial thirst for profit, irrespective of the quality of the means adopted to achieve that goal. This phenomenon has its source in the abundant wealth of the West and so 'management by materialism' has caught the fancy of all the countries the world over, India being no exception to this trend. My country, India, has been in the forefront in importing these ideas mainly because of its centuries old indoctrination by colonial rulers, which has inculcated in us a feeling that anything Western is good and anything Indian is inferior.

The result is that, while huge funds have been invested in building temples of modem management education, no perceptible changes are visible in the improvement of the general quality of life - although the standards of living of a few has gone up. The same old struggles in almost all sectors of the economy, criminalisation of institutions, social violence, exploitation and other vices are seen deep in the body politic.

The source of the problem

The reasons for this sorry state of affairs are not far to seek. The Western idea of management centres on making the worker (and the manager) more efficient and more productive. Companies offer workers more to work more, produce more, sell more and to stick to the organisation without looking for alternatives. The sole aim of extracting better and more work from the worker is to improve the bottom-line of the enterprise. The worker has become a hireable commodity, which can be used, replaced and discarded at will.

Thus, workers have been reduced to the state of a mercantile product. In such a state, it should come as no surprise to us that workers start using strikes (gheraos) sit-ins, (dharnas) go-slows, work-to-rule etc. to get maximum benefit for themselves from the organisations. Society-at-large is damaged. Thus we reach a situation in which management and workers become separate and contradictory entities with conflicting interests. There is no common goal or understanding. This, predictably, leads to suspicion, friction, disillusion and mistrust, with managers and workers at cross purposes. The absence of human values and erosion of human touch in the organisational structure has resulted in a crisis of confidence.

Western management philosophy may have created prosperity – for some people some of the time at least - but it has failed in the aim of ensuring betterment of individual life and social welfare. It has remained by and large a soulless edifice and an oasis of plenty for a few in the midst of poor quality of life for many.

Hence, there is an urgent need to re-examine prevailing management disciplines - their objectives, scope and content. Management should be redefined to underline the development of the worker as a person, as a human being, and not as a mere wage-earner. With this changed perspective, management can become an instrument in the process of social, and indeed national, development.

Now let us re-examine some of the modern management concepts in the light of the Bhagavad Gita which is a primer of management-by-values.

Utilisation of available resources

The first lesson of management science is to choose wisely and utilise scarce resources optimally. During the curtain raiser before the Mahabharata War, Duryodhana chose Sri Krishna's large army for his help while Arjuna selected Sri Krishna's wisdom for his support. This episode gives us a clue as to the nature of the effective manager - the former chose numbers, the latter, wisdom.

Work commitment

A popular verse of the Gita advises “detachment” from the fruits or results of actions performed in the course of one's duty. Being dedicated work has to mean “working for the sake of work, generating excellence for its own sake.” If we are always calculating the date of promotion or the rate of commission before putting in our efforts, then such work is not detached. It is not “generating excellence for its own sake” but working only for the extrinsic reward that may (or may not) result.

Working only with an eye to the anticipated benefits, means that the quality of performance of the current job or duty suffers - through mental agitation of anxiety for the future. In fact, the way the world works means that events do not always respond positively to our calculations and hence expected fruits may not always be forthcoming. So, the Gita tells us not to mortgage present commitment to an uncertain future.

Some people might argue that not seeking the business result of work and actions, makes one unaccountable. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita is full of advice on the theory of cause and effect, making the doer responsible for the consequences of his deeds. While advising detachment from the avarice of selfish gains in discharging one's accepted duty, the Gita does not absolve anybody of the consequences arising from discharge of his or her responsibilities.

Thus the best means of effective performance management is the work itself. Attaining this state of mind (called “nishkama karma”) is the right attitude to work because it prevents the ego, the mind, from dissipation of attention through speculation on future gains or losses.

Motivation – self and self-transcendence

It has been presumed for many years that satisfying lower order needs of workers - adequate food, clothing and shelter, etc. are key factors in motivation. However, it is a common experience that the dissatisfaction of the clerk and of the Director is identical - only their scales and composition vary. It should be true that once the lower-order needs are more than satisfied, the Director should have little problem in optimising his contribution to the organisation and society. But more often than not, it does not happen like that. (“The eagle soars high but keeps its eyes firmly fixed on the dead animal below.”) On the contrary, a lowly paid schoolteacher, or a self-employed artisan, may well demonstrate higher levels of self-actualisation despite poorer satisfaction of their lower-order needs.

This situation is explained by the theory of self-transcendence propounded in the Gita. Self-transcendence involves renouncing egoism, putting others before oneself, emphasising team work, dignity, co-operation, harmony and trust – and, indeed potentially sacrificing lower needs for higher goals, the opposite of Maslow.

“Work must be done with detachment.” It is the ego that spoils work and the ego is the centrepiece of most theories of motivation. We need not merely a theory of motivation but a theory of inspiration.

The Great Indian poet, Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941, known as "Gurudev") says working for love is freedom in action. A concept which is described as “disinterested work" in the Gita where Sri Krishna says,

“He who shares the wealth generated only after serving the people, through work done as a sacrifice for them, is freed from all sins. On the contrary those who earn wealth only for themselves, eat sins that lead to frustration and failure.”

Disinterested work finds expression in devotion, surrender and equipoise. The former two are psychological while the third is determination to keep the mind free of the dualistic (usually taken to mean "materialistic") pulls of daily experiences. Detached involvement in work is the key to mental equanimity or the state of “nirdwanda.” This attitude leads to a stage where the worker begins to feel the presence of the Supreme Intelligence guiding the embodied individual intelligence. Such de-personified intelligence is best suited for those who sincerely believe in the supremacy of organisational goals as compared to narrow personal success and achievement.

Work culture

An effective work culture is about vigorous and arduous efforts in pursuit of given or chosen tasks. Sri Krishna elaborates on two types of work culture – “daivi sampat” or divine work culture and “asuri sampat” or demonic work culture.

· Daivi work culture - involves fearlessness, purity, self-control, sacrifice, straightforwardness, self-denial, calmness, absence of fault-finding, absence of greed, gentleness, modesty, absence of envy and pride.

· Asuri work culture - involves egoism, delusion, personal desires, improper performance, work not oriented towards service.

Mere work ethic is not enough. The hardened criminal exhibits an excellent work ethic. What is needed is a work ethic conditioned by ethics in work.

It is in this light that the counsel, “yogah karmasu kausalam” should be understood. “Kausalam” means skill or technique of work which is an indispensable component of a work ethic. “Yogah” is defined in the Gita itself as “samatvam yogah uchyate” meaning an unchanging equipoise of mind (detachment.) Tilak tells us that acting with an equable mind is Yoga.

(Bal Gangadhar Tilak, 1856-1920, the precursor of Gandhiji, hailed by the people of India as "Lokmanya," probably the most learned among the country's political leaders. For a description of the meanings of the word "Yoga", see foot of this page.)

By making the equable mind the bed-rock of all actions, the Gita evolved the goal of unification of work ethic with ethics in work, for without ethical process no mind can attain an equipoise. The guru, Adi Sankara (born circa 800 AD), says that the skill necessary in the performance of one's duty is that of maintaining an evenness of mind in face of success and failure. The calm mind in the face of failure will lead to deeper introspection and see clearly where the process went wrong so that corrective steps could be taken to avoid shortcomings in future.

The principle of reducing our attachment to personal gains from the work done is the Gita’s prescription for attaining equanimity. It has been held that this principle leads to lack of incentive for effort, striking at the very root of work ethic. To the contrary, concentration on the task for its own sake leads to the achievement of excellence – and indeed to the true mental happiness of the worker. Thus, while commonplace theories of motivation may be said to lead us to the bondage or extrinsic rewards, the Gita’s principle leads us to the intrinsic rewards of mental, and indeed moral, satisfaction.

Work results

The Gita further explains the theory of “detachment” from the extrinsic rewards of work in saying:

· If the result of sincere effort is a success, the entire credit should not be appropriated by the doer alone.

· If the result of sincere effort is a failure, then too the entire blame does not accrue to the doer.

The former attitude mollifies arrogance and conceit while the latter prevents excessive despondency, de-motivation and self-pity. Thus both these dispositions safeguard the doer against psychological vulnerability, the cause of the modem managers' companions of diabetes, high blood pressure and ulcers.

Assimilation of the ideas of the Gita leads us to the wider spectrum of “lokasamgraha” (general welfare) but there is also another dimension to the work ethic - if the “karmayoga” (service) is blended with “bhaktiyoga” (devotion), then the work itself becomes worship, a “sevayoga" (service for its own sake.)

Along with bhakti yoga as a means of liberation, the Gita espouses the doctrine of nishkamya karma or pure action untainted by hankering after the fruits resulting from that action. Modern scientists have now understood the intuitive wisdom of that action in a new light.

Scientists at the US National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, found that laboratory monkeys that started out as procrastinators, became efficient workers after they received brain injections that suppressed a gene linked to their ability to anticipate a reward.The scientists reported that the work ethic of rhesus macaques wasn't all that different from that of many people: "If the reward is not immediate, you procrastinate", Dr Richmond told LA Times.

(This may sound a peculiarly religious idea but it has a wider application. It could be taken to mean doing something because it is worthwhile, to serve others, to make the world a better place – ed.)

Manager's mental health

Sound mental health is the very goal of any human activity - more so management. Sound mental health is that state of mind which can maintain a calm, positive poise, or regain it when unsettled, in the midst of all the external vagaries of work life and social existence. Internal constancy and peace are the pre-requisites for a healthy stress-free mind.

Some of the impediments to sound mental health are:

· Greed - for power, position, prestige and money.

· Envy - regarding others' achievements, success, rewards.

· Egotism - about one's own accomplishments.

· Suspicion, anger and frustration.

· Anguish through comparisons.

The driving forces in today's businesses are speed and competition. There is a distinct danger that these forces cause erosion of the moral fibre, that in seeking the end, one permits oneself immoral means - tax evasion, illegitimate financial holdings, being “economical with the truth”, deliberate oversight in the audit, too-clever financial reporting and so on. This phenomenon may be called as “yayati syndrome”.

In the book, the Mahabharata, we come across a king by the name of Yayati who, in order to revel in the endless enjoyment of flesh exchanged his old age with the youth of his obliging youngest son for a thousand years. However, he found the pursuit of sensual enjoyments ultimately unsatisfying and came back to his son pleading him to take back his youth. This “yayati syndrome” shows the conflict between externally directed acquisitions (extrinsic motivation) and inner value and conscience (intrinsic motivation.)

Management needs those who practise what they preach

“Whatever the excellent and best ones do, the commoners follow,” says Sri Krishna in the Gita. The visionary leader must be a missionary, extremely practical, intensively dynamic and capable of translating dreams into reality. This dynamism and strength of a true leader flows from an inspired and spontaneous motivation to help others. "I am the strength of those who are devoid of personal desire and attachment. O Arjuna, I am the legitimate desire in those, who are not opposed to righteousness," says Sri Krishna in the 10th Chapter of the Gita.

In conclusion

The despondency of Arjuna in the first chapter of the Gita is typically human. Sri Krishna, by sheer power of his inspiring words, changes Arjuna's mind from a state of inertia to one of righteous action, from the state of what the French philosophers call “anomie” or even alienation, to a state of self-confidence in the ultimate victory of “dharma” (ethical action.)

When Arjuna got over his despondency and stood ready to fight, Sri Krishna reminded him of the purpose of his new-found spirit of intense action - not for his own benefit, not for satisfying his own greed and desire, but for the good of many, with faith in the ultimate victory of ethics over unethical actions and of truth over untruth.

Sri Krishna's advice with regard to temporary failures is, “No doer of good ever ends in misery.” Every action should produce results. Good action produces good results and evil begets nothing but evil. Therefore, always act well and be rewarded.

My purport is not to suggest discarding of the Western model of efficiency, dynamism and striving for excellence but to tune these ideals to India's holistic attitude of “lokasangraha” - for the welfare of many, for the good of many. There is indeed a moral dimension to business life. What we do in business is no different, in this regard, to what we do in our personal lives. The means do not justify the ends. Pursuit of results for their own sake, is ultimately self-defeating. (“Profit,” said Matsushita-san in another tradition, “is the reward of correct behaviour.” – ed.)

A note on the word "yoga".

Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is “a state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state." The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings.

M.P.Bhattathiri.

Let us go through what scholars say about Holy Gita.

"No work in all Indian literature is more quoted, because none is better loved, in the West, than the Bhagavad-gita. Translation of such a work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit, but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal artistry. For the poem is a symphony in which God is seen in all things. . . . The Swami does a real service for students by investing the beloved Indian epic with fresh meaning. Whatever our outlook may be, we should all be grateful for the labor that has lead to this illuminating work."

Dr. Geddes MacGregor, Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy University of Southern California

"The Gita can be seen as the main literary support for the great religious civilization of India, the oldest surviving culture in the world. The present translation and commentary is another manifestation of the permanent living importance of the Gita."

Thomas Merton, Theologian

"I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad-gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book."

Dr. Samuel D. Atkins Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University

"As a successor in direct line from Caitanya, the author of Bhagavad-gita As It Is is entitled, according to Indian custom, to the majestic title of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The great interest that his reading of the Bhagavad-gita holds for us is that it offers us an authorized interpretation according to the principles of the Caitanya tradition."

Olivier Lacombe Professor of Sanskrit and Indology, Sorbonne University, Paris

"I have had the opportunity of examining several volumes published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and have found them to be of excellent quality and of great value for use in college classes on Indian religions. This is particularly true of the BBT edition and translation of the Bhagavad-gita."

Dr. Frederick B. Underwood Professor of Religion, Columbia University

"If truth is what works, as Pierce and the pragmatists insist, there must be a kind of truth in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, since those who follow its teachings display a joyous serenity usually missing in the bleak and strident lives of contemporary people."

Dr. Elwin H. Powell Professor of Sociology State University of New York, Buffalo

"There is little question that this edition is one of the best books available on the Gita and devotion. Prabhupada's translation is an ideal blend of literal accuracy and religious insight."

Dr. Thomas J. Hopkins Professor of Religion, Franklin and Marshall College

"The Bhagavad-gita, one of the great spiritual texts, is not as yet a common part of our cultural milieu. This is probably less because it is alien per se than because we have lacked just the kind of close interpretative commentary upon it that Swami Bhaktivedanta has here provided, a commentary written from not only a scholar's but a practitioner's, a dedicated lifelong devotee's point of view."

Denise Levertov, Poet

"The increasing numbers of Western readers interested in classical Vedic thought have been done a service by Swami Bhaktivedanta. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, he has increased our understanding manyfold."

Dr. Edward C Dimock, Jr. Department of South Asian Languages and Civilization University of Chicago

"The scholarly world is again indebted to A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Although Bhagavad-gita has been translated many times, Prabhupada adds a translation of singular importance with his commentary."

Dr. J. Stillson Judah, Professor of the History of Religions and Director of Libraries Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California

"Srila Prabhupada's edition thus fills a sensitive gap in France, where many hope to become familiar with traditional Indian thought, beyond the commercial East-West hodgepodge that has arisen since the time Europeans first penetrated India.

"Whether the reader be an adept of Indian spiritualism or not, a reading of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is will be extremely profitable. For many this will be the first contact with the true India, the ancient India, the eternal India."

Francois Chenique, Professor of Religious Sciences Institute of Political Studies, Paris, France

"It was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us"

Emerson's reaction to the Gita

"As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. For this reason, I am very excited to see the publication of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. It will help to stop the terrible cheating of false and unauthorized 'gurus' and 'yogis' and will give an opportunity to all people to understand the actual meaning of Oriental culture."

Dr. Kailash Vajpeye, Director of Indian Studies Center for Oriental Studies, The University of Mexico

"The Gita is one of the clearest and most comprehensive one, of the summaries and systematic spiritual statements

of the perennial philosophy ever to have been done" ________Aldous Huxley

"It is a deeply felt, powerfully conceived and beautifully explained work. I don't know whether to praise more this translation of the Bhagavad-gita, its daring method of explanation, or the endless fertility of its ideas. I have never seen any other work on the Gita with such an important voice and style. . . . It will occupy a significant place in the intellectual and ethical life of modern man for a long time to come."

Dr. Shaligram Shukla Professor of Linguistics, Georgetown University

"I can say that in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is I have found explanations and answers to questions I had always posed regarding the interpretations of this sacred work, whose spiritual discipline I greatly admire. If the aesceticism and ideal of the apostles which form the message of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were more widespread and more respected, the world in which we live would be transformed into a better, more fraternal place."

Dr. Paul Lesourd, Author Professeur Honoraire, Catholic University of Paris

"When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous."

Albert Einstein

"When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day."

Mahatma Gandhi

"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial."

Henry David Thoreau

"The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions."

Dr. Albert Schweitzer

"The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the human race a living creation rather than a book, with a new message for every age and a new meaning for every civilization."

Sri Aurobindo

"The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states 'behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant.' This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita."

Carl Jung

"The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the spiritual foundation of human existence. It is a call of action to meet the obligations and duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual nature and grander purpose of the universe."

Prime Minister Nehru

"The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion."

Herman Hesse

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

"In order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it."

Rudolph Steiner

"From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all the goals of human existence become fulfilled. Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures."

Adi Shankara

"The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity."

Aldous Huxley

"The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to reveal the science of devotion to God which is the essence of all spiritual knowledge. The Supreme Lord Krishna's primary purpose for descending and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac and negative, undesirable influences that are opposed to spiritual development, yet simultaneously it is His incomparable intention to be perpetually within reach of all humanity."

Ramanuja

The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the Vaishnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam fully reveals the true import of this doctrine which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may think that they are advised to engage in warfare. When the second chapter has been read it can be clearly understood that knowledge and the soul is the ultimate goal to be attained. On studying the third chapter it is apparent that acts of righteousness are also of high priority. If we continue and patiently take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter we can see that the ultimate conclusion is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas of religion which we possess and fully surrender directly unto the Supreme Lord.

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati

"The Mahabharata has all the essential ingredients necessary to evolve and protect humanity and that within it the Bhagavad-Gita is the epitome of the Mahabharata just as ghee is the essence of milk and pollen is the essence of flowers."

Madhvacarya

Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is “a state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state." The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings. Lord Krishna is real Yogi who can maintain a peaceful mind in the midst of any crisis."

Mata Amritanandamayi Devi.

Karma, Bhakti, and Jnana are but three paths to this end. And common to all the three is renunciation. Renounce the desires, even of going to heaven, for every desire related with body and mind creates bondage. Our focus of action is neither to save the humanity nor to engage in social reforms, not to seek personal gains, but to realize the indwelling Self itself.

Swami Vivekananda (England, London; 1895-96 )

"Science describes the structures and processess; philosophy attempts at their explaination.-----

When such a perfect combination of both science and philosophy is sung to perfection that Krishna was,

we have in this piece of work an appeal both to the head annd heart. " ____________Swamy Chinmayanand on Gita

I seek that Divine Knowledge by knowing which nothing remains to be known!' For such a person knowledge and ignorance has only one meaning: Have you knowledge of God? If yes, you a Jnani! If not, you are ignorant.As said in the Gita, chapter XIII/11, knowledge of Self, observing everywhere the object of true Knowledge i.e. God, all this is declared to be true Knowledge (wisdom); what is contrary to this is ignorance."

Sri Ramakrishna .

Maharishi calls the Bhagavad-Gita the essence of Vedic Literature and a complete guide to practical life. It provides “all that is needed to raise the consciousness of man to the highest possible level.” Maharishi reveals the deep, universal truths of life that speak to the needs and aspirations of everyone.

Maharshi Mahesh Yogi

The Gita was preached as a preparatory lesson for living worldly life with an eye to Release, Nirvana. My last prayer to everyone, therefore, is that one should not fail to thoroughly understand this ancient science of worldly life as early as possible in one’s life.

--- Lokmanya Tilak

I believe that in all the living languages of the world, there is no book so full of true knowledge, and yet so handy. It teaches self-control, austerity, non-violence, compassion, obedience to the call of duty for the sake of duty, and putting up a fight against unrighteousness (Adharma). To my knowledge, there is no book in the whole range of the world’s literature so high above as the Bhagavad-Gita, which is the treasure-house of Dharma nor only for the Hindus but foe all mankind.

--- M. M. Malaviya

ref. bbt.org, kamakoti.org, amritapuri.org, mahrshi.com, sai.org,chinmaya.org, vivekanada.org,neovedanta/gospel.com,spirituality.indiatimes.com

December 10, 2005

humbly request that someone please explain the following verse (using guru and sastra as evidence). It shows Lord Brahma directly addressing Lord Shiva as Supreme Brahman. I thought Krishna was Supreme Brahman. It is very confusing.

SB 4.6.42: Lord Brahma said: My dear Lord Shiva, I know that you are the controller of the entire material manifestation, the combination father and mother of the cosmic manifestation, and the Supreme Brahman beyond the cosmic manifestation as well. I know you in that way.

PURPORT

Although Lord Brahma had received very respectful obeisances from Lord Shiva, he knew that Lord Shiva was in a more exalted position than himself. Lord Shiva's position is described in Brahma-samhita: there is no difference between Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva in their original positions, but still Lord Shiva is different from Lord Vishnu. The example is given that the milk in yogurt is not different from the original milk from which it was made.

Sadashiva - nondifferent

Shiva - one and different

Vaikuntha Sadashiva (Original Shiva) is one of Krishna's infinite Vishnu forms, so parabrahma. Mahesh Dhama Shiva is Krishna's maya association form.

Pankaja_Dasa · December 10, 2005

Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, who is expanded from Sadasiva, in Shvetashvatara Upanishad V-2

Advaita Achaya is Maha-vishnu and Sada-shiva, so Ksiodakasayi Vishnu is Sada-shiva/Vishnu. I always wondered why Advaita Acharya was this Tattva. This makes sence now. So this is combination of two Tattva [Vishnu]. Can you explain why that is?

Pankaja_Dasa · December 11, 2005

Hare Krishna, this is from www.purebhakti.com

Above Devi-dhama lies Siva’s abode, in which one part is in

darkness and the other part is illuminated. The dark portion is

celebrated by the name of Mahakala-dhama, and the light portion

is renowned by the name of Sadasivaloka. Hari-dhama or

the Vaikunthaloka in the spiritual world is situated above that

Sadasivaloka.

Sri Govindadeva attains the condition of being Sambhu for

the sake of performing a specific function, just as milk is

transformed into yogurt by contact with a particular

transforming agent, although yogurt is not a different

substance, independent of milk, which is its cause. I

worship that original personality, Sri Govinda.

The current verse beginning kshiram yatha is an analysis of the

svarupa of Sambhu, the previously mentioned presiding deity of

Mahesa-dhama. Actually Sambhu is not a separate lord, independent

of Sri Krishna, and those who think that he is are offensive to

Bhagavan. Sambhu’s status as a lord is subordinate to and dependent

upon Sri Govinda’s overlordship. Thus they are factually

non-different realities. The example of that non-difference is

that as milk is transformed into yogurt by contact with a

specific transforming agent, similarly by union with a special

transforming agent, the Supreme Lord takes on a separate form,

which is dependent on Him; this separate form has no

independence.

In this case, the special transforming agent is constituted of a

mixture of maya’s aspect of the mode of ignorance, the nonplenitude

or minuteness aspect of the marginal potency, and a

slight degree of the combined knowledge (samvit) and bliss

(hladini) aspects of the transcendental potency. The effulgent

subordinate controller in the form of Sambhu linga, being united

with this special transforming agent, is constitutionally the semblance

of an expansion of the Supreme Godhead. He is the

Sadasiva from whom Rudradeva is manifest. Sri Govinda is manifest

in the form of Sambhu as guna-avatara, in order to arrange

2 5 8

the ingredient materials for creation, to annihilate certain asuras

for the purpose of universal maintenance, and to execute all

functions of destruction. This Sambhu is a separated expansion

imbued with the mood of a plenary expansion, and he is also

known as kala-purusha, the personified time factor. In this

regard a body of evidence has been cited in Srila Jiva Gosvami’s

commentary.

In Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.13.16) it is stated: “vaisnavanam

yatha sambhuh – of all Vaishnavas, Sambhu is the greatest.” The

purport of such statements is that Sambhu meets together with

Durga-devi and performs his function through his own timepotency

in accordance with Sri Govinda’s desire. Many sastras

headed by the tantras give instruction to follow the principles of

righteous conduct in accordance with the level of eligibility of

the respective jivas. These principles are compared to a ladder

with steps that eventually lead to the attainment of bhakti.

Furthermore, in accord with Govinda’s desire, Sambhu maintains

and protects pure devotional service by preaching Mayavada

philosophy and imaginary supplementary scriptures (agamas).37

The fifty qualities of the jivas are present in abundance in

Sambhu, and five more great qualities not attainable by ordinary

living entities are partially manifest in him. Thus, one cannot say

that Sambhu is a jiva. Although his nature is that of a separated

expansion, he is still a lord and controller (isvara).

verse 45

December 18, 2005

Advaita Achaya is Maha-vishnu and Sada-shiva, so Ksiodakasayi Vishnu is Sada-shiva/Vishnu. I always wondered why Advaita Acharya was this Tattva. This makes sence now. So this is combination of two Tattva [Vishnu]. Can you explain why that is?

I don't know why he is a combo of two Vishnu Tattva forms.

In Gaura-lila there are several combo Avataras. See Gaura Ganodesadipika for reference.

Lord Shiva - Parabrahman

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