Lord Shiva - Parabrahman

[Pankaja_Dasa]

TRANSLATION

My dear Lord Sambhu, who within this material world but you can surpass My illusory energy? People are generally attached to sense enjoyment and conquered by its influence. Indeed, the influence of material nature is very difficult for them to surmount.

 

PURPORT

Of the three chief demigods -- Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesvara -- all but Vishnu are under the influence of maya. In Caitanya-caritamrita, they are described as mayi, which means "under maya's influence." But even though Lord Siva associates with maya, he is not influenced . The living entities are affected by maya, but although Lord Siva apparently associates with maya, he is not affected. In other words, all living entities within this material world except for Lord Siva are swayed by maya. Lord Siva is therefore neither vishnu-tattva nor jiva-tattva. He is between the two.

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/8/12/39/en1

[Guest guest]

Yes. So there is Shiva in Mahesha Dhama who is as the authority, HDG Srila Prabhupada says:

 

"neither vishnu-tattva nor jiva-tattva. He is between the two."

 

Therefore not Parabrahma / Vishnu tattva.

 

And then there is original Shiva in Vaikuntha who is Vishnu tattva, therefore Parabrahma.

 

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

I believe this is reffering to the Guna-avatara Shiva., but I cannot be sure.

 

The reason I say this is because in the Purport below it says, Shambu is a Saktyavesa-avatara. Then I saw the below Translation by Gurudeva, it says: 'Lord Çiva [sadäçiva].'. So this is reffering us that Lord Shiva is expanded from Sada-shiva, I hope thats right understanding!

 

TRANSLATION

O King, when that uncontrollable poison was forcefully spreading up and down in all directions, all the demigods, along with the Lord Himself, approached Lord Çiva [sadäçiva]. Feeling unsheltered and very much afraid, they sought shelter of him.

SB.8.7.19

 

 

TRANSLATION

The prajäpatis said: O greatest of all demigods, Mahädeva, Supersoul of all living entities and cause of their happiness and prosperity, we have come to the shelter of your lotus feet. Now please save us from this fiery poison, which is spreading all over the three worlds.

 

PURPORT

Since Lord Çiva is in charge of annihilation, why should he be approached for protection, which is given by Lord Viñëu? Lord Brahmä creates, and Lord Çiva annihilates, but both Lord Brahmä and Lord Çiva are incarnations of Lord Viñëu and are known as çaktyäveça-avatäras. They are endowed with a special power like that of Lord Viñëu, who is actually all-pervading in their activities. Therefore whenever prayers for protection are offered to Lord Çiva, actually Lord Viñëu is indicated, for otherwise Lord Çiva is meant for destruction. Lord Çiva is one of the éçvaras, or the controllers known as çaktyäveça-avatäras. Therefore he can be addressed as having the qualities of Lord Viñëu.

SB.8.7.21

[hemant]

hi everybody

 

i have been reading your topic & it is quite surprsing that krishna [ incarnation of lord vishnu ] (i do not mean to disrespect him in any stance) is termed as the supreme aatma.

 

if we go through ancient vedas / purans there is only one tatva they have respected that is the OMKAAR which has come within MAHAKAAL Mahadevam.

 

lord krishna is just a human form & he indeed has guided many for a give & take relationship with everybody which is exactly the vaishnavs follow.

 

now to understand that lord mahakaal is the supreme being i have the below to bring to all of your attention , please note that this is not shivaite or vishnuaite i am speaking of but lord mahakaal is indeed the supreme one which i can prove from below :

1) he is addressed as MAHADEVA , Vishnu had been termed as the supreme aatma but he is never addressed anywhere as MAHADEVAM.

 

2) lord shiva is SAMA PRAVATI which means he is equal to everyone , he treats everyone (rakshas, deva , manushya , pashus & every other life form or non life form that exists or even does not exists EQUAL ) whereas we have seen other GODS as treating or favouring only GODS / MANUSHYAS & SOMETIMES in that process hurting the other ganas / life forms

 

3) MAHAKAAL has space for each & everyone & we know that this world we stay is mithya & there exists a other world of only aatmas. sharir (the body is perishable even the GREAT BHAGVATA GITA HAS AGREED ON THIS) . that is why even the great ravana worshipped LORD shiva & even LORD RAMA WORSHIPPED LORD SHIVA , we all know that it was impossible that RAMA would have won against RAVANA without the help of RUDRA AVATAAR HANUMANA . Then there was krishna who again had to take help of Hanumanji & hanuman ji has to stay on the Dhwaja of Arjuna to help him get victory over the kauravas.

 

i will explain more if someone decides to argue on all this .

 

MAHAKAAL SHIVA is the only one who is called as MRITYUNJAYA

A guide for all of you how LORD VISHNU / MAHAKALI got their form.

 

we know the VAMA ANGA & the ardhanarishwar roopas of LORD MAHAKAAL , from the left side MAHAKAAL decided to give up most of his shakti who is a female form DEVI MAHAKALi.

& from his right side LORD VISHNU was given birth to handle all activities.

 

Please be noted that MAHAKAAL Cannot be defined but have tried to define him as when ANANTA CRORES OF BRAHMAS appear from LORD VISHNUS STOMACH there is one full form of LORD VISHNU. & it is one FULL AVATAARA OF LORD VISHNU & WHEN SUCH ANANANTA CRORES OF LORD VISHNU fullfill their terms then also it just forms a LEG OF MAHAKAAL.

 

i again say that i do not mean to disrespect anybody's BHAVANAS but this is the fact one has to understand.

 

as for now this is enough.

 

JAI MAHAKAAL SHIV SHAMBHO

 

rgd

hemant

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Tell you the truth I don't know anything about Lord Shiva because His tattva is very complex. SO until I study it with devotees, I doubt I will somehow figure it out myself. I believe only Vaishnavas know this truth. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[hemant]

i would like to again bring out to the knowledge that MAHAKAAL TATVA is just about giving happiness to everyone & not taking anything in return since everything has come from HIM only & for MAHAKAAL everyone is like a child to him. while giving something for one's happiness , all are equal in MAHAKAAL's tatva & everyone has a space to live life largely in heaven . right from asuraas / gods / humans / animals or to any other form of life which exists or does not even exists.

 

we have seen where all GODS & ASURAS were afraid to drink the poison at the time of SAAGAR MANTHAN & I MEAN ALL GODS approached only MAHADEVAM to help out. HE was the only one who accepted to drink all the deadly poison to let life live & flourish.

 

i am not against any other tatva since all tatvas have come from MAHAKAAL.

 

any comments on this are welcomed , can explain u lots more.

 

rgd

hemant

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, it correct that Brahma is the Supreme Brahman. Through him only the Brahmin souls are created. Shiva Who is the GOD (Generator, Operator and Destructor) does his job through Brahma for creating the new heavenly world for his sweet childrens. For that first Brahmins souls are created. This aspect can be very well understood one when understands his self first i.e, he is not body but he is an immortal Soul.. and he originally belongs to his supreme Soul who is supreme father. For more info visit any one of the following centers given in the link : http://www.brahmakumaris.com/bkcentres/index.htm

 

Godly servant

Pandav

[dhaa]

 

Vallabhacharya agrees with Bhagavatam on Shiva and Parabrahma:

 

Balbodh by Jagadguru Vallabhacharya 12-13a:

 

Vishnu is the sustainer of creation while Shiva is the destroyer. Both have been revealed as such in their own scriptures. Know without a doubt that the Supreme Brahman is both Vishnu and Shiva for they have both been declared as the Self of all things. They have also been described in their own scriptures as being flawless and replete with all divine virtues.

 

 

Also Swami Narayan agrees in Shikshapatri 47:

 

Ekatmyameva Vigneyam Narayanamaheshyoha |

Ubhyorbrahmanrupera Vedeshu Pratipadanat ||47||

 

No distinction shall be made between Narayan and Shiva, as they are both proclaimed as Brahmanswarupa by the Vedas

 

Shatanand Muni's Bhashya to 47:

 

Those who think of God differently to this, where Narayan or Shiva are defamed in some way are insulting God. Shatanand says that such people should have their eyes removed. Such a person is blind to the truth and can never be enlightened to that truth.

 

Many Shastras speak of the oneness of Narayan and Shiva. Our ancient Shastras in some instances speak of Narayan as supreme and in other instances speak of Shiva as supreme. Both views should be accepted as correct, hence they should be accepted as the one and the same. The following Veda scriptures are Shaiva in context as they speak of Shiva as Brahman: Atharvashikha, Atharvashisha, Shetasvataria, Mantropanishad, Kaivalyopanishad. The following speak of Vishnu as the supreme Brahman: Mahanarayanopanishad, Narayaropanishad, Mahopanishad, Shubhalopanishad. Thus the four Vedas sing only the oneness of Shiva and Narayan.

 

Shrimad Bhagwat’s Fourth Chapter explains, ‘Those who find indifference in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and recognise the oneness in them obtain eternal peace.’ The Eighth Chapter adds, ‘Shiva Brahma and Vishnu are thy manifested forms, which create, maintain and destroy the universe at thy will. Thou is Ishwara who delivers Moksha (Salvation). Thou is Parabrahman (the Supreme Lord).’

 

Narad Pancharatra succinctly states:

 

Shivo Harirhariha Shakshatchiva Eva Nirupitaha |

 

Shivadveshi Haridrohi Vishnum Nityam Bhajanapi ||

 

‘Shiva is Hari and Hari is none other than Shiva. An enemy of Shiva is an enemy of Hari, even though he may daily worship Vishnu.’

 

Bhattacharya has said, ‘I have looked in the Puranas, Upapuranas, Vedas, Smrutis and all other such Shastras, but have not come across anything to suggest a difference in Shiva and Vishnu.’ God himself has said, ‘Those who find difference in the two of us fall to the Hells.’ Shree Dhar Swami prays, ‘I humbly bow before Vishnu and Shankar who are one, who revere one another and who provide for all.’ Vallabhacharaya, a famed Vaishnava, in similar fashion says, ‘Glory to thee, who is honoured as Brahman in the Vedanta - Lord of the three worlds - Mahadev.’

 

Lord Swaminarayan has gone out of his way to glorify both Vaishnav and Shaiva Sampradais in order to get back to the true Vedic teachings. We must conform to this dream of Lord Swaminarayan’s by never uttering a word contrary to the Lord’s standpoint. We must always, with love, observe the Vratas of Lord Shiva and bow respectfully to the icons of Shiva. It does not in anyway fault our devotion to Lord Vishnu by doing so - indeed it strengthens devotion for Vishnu. Narayan and Shiva are one and the same. They are, if you like, two sides of the same coin. That coin being the Supreme Godhead

 

source:

http://swaminarayansatsang.com/scriptures/scriptureexplanation.asp?ScriptureDetailsID=48&ScriptureID=1

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I am to understand that Shiva doesn't exactly act in the capacity of Vishnu, as in Shiva is never thought of as 'The Enjoyer'. Either on Mount Kalisha or in Sada-shiva-loka. Sada-shiva-loka is thought of as Eternal and is never destroyed at the time of mass destruction [bhagavatam]. So the point I am making is, that we essentially I feel have to go further in that regard than speaking of the oneness of Shiva and Vishnu.

 

In the Chaitanya Charitamrta is it stated that Sada-shiva is expanded from Baladeva as Vilasa-vigraha. For variengated pastimes. It says Advaita acharya is the combined form of Lord Sada-shiva and Maha-Vishnu. I am to understand that once Advita Acarya stated that If anybody worships Him, without worshipping Gauranga Mahaprabhu, then it would be offence to Him [Adviata Acharya]. In this way I personally can see that Shiva is actually a devotee of Vishnu.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

From devotee: Sadashiva is non other than Gopisvara Mahadeva and is always engaged in serving the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna in Vraja.

 

[That sada-shiva is reffering to Vishnu-tattva]. I need to find out if Gopisvara is Vishnu-tattva. I post later.

[Guest guest]

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20000305.shtml

 

Narayan Maharaja: There are three 'vicaras', perspectives, from which to understand the relationship between Krishna and Lord Siva. Vicara means point of view or consideration. One vicara is called 'tattva-gata-vicara'. This is the viewpoint of conclusive philosophical truth. Another is called 'aisvarya-gata vicara'. This is the view point of pastimes in opulence and majesty. The third is madhurya-gata-vicara, the viewpoint of the Lord's pastimes which appear like those of an ordinary human being.

[Guest guest]

According to the principle of tattva-gata-vicara, Lord Siva is a 'kala' of Krishna's expansion. This means that Sri Krishna's amsa, plenary portion, is Sadasiva, and Lord Siva is His fractional part.

 

 

[Guest guest]

According to aisvarya-bhava, or aisvarya-gata-vicara, Sri Krishna is the supreme worshipable Deity of Lord Siva. Lord Siva is always worshiping Krishna.

[Guest guest]

When we take madhurya-bhava, or naravat-gata-vicara, however, Krishna plays another role. He is a very small, young child. He cannot do anything. Yasodamayi is feeding Him and doing everything. At that time Lord Siva, Mahadeva, comes and gives benedictions to that child. Because Krishna is performing naravat human-like pastimes, Siva becomes worshipable to this child. In this category of madhurya-bhava there are so many pastimes. In our Puranas it is stated that Krishna was worshiping Lord Siva to beget a child from the womb of Jambavati.

[cherry]

'Caitanya Bhagavata' by Vrndavana dasa Thakura (Antya Lila - chapter 4)

 

'Lord Krsna Himself says that how can any person worship Him and not worship Siva?.

How can one develop love for Krsna if he disregards Lord Siva who is so dear to Lord Krsna.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says "How can anyone render devotional service to Me without

worshipping My dear devotee Siva in the proper devotional mood. A person who does not

respect Siva is envious of the Vaisnavas and is a sinful reprobate."

Again, in the Skanda Purana it says "First one should worship Lord Krsna, the cause of all

causes, and then worship the best of the demigods, Lord Siva. Then all the other demigods

should be worshiped with great faith and devotion."

Sri Advaita Arcarya is accepted by the saintly personalities as Siva himself. This is so

because Lord Caitanya gave sufficient indications to establish this truth.'

[Guest guest]

CC Adi 6.53: Love for Krishna has this one unique effect: it imbues superiors, equals and inferiors with the spirit of service to Lord Krishna.

 

CC Adi 6.105-106: Baladeva, Lakshmana, Advaita Acarya, Lord Nityananda, Lord Sesha and Lord Sankarshana taste the nectarean mellows of the transcendental bliss of Lord Krishna by recognizing Themselves as being His devotees and servants. They are all mad with that happiness, and they know nothing else.

 

CC Adi 6.76-79: What to speak of others, even Lord Baladeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is full of emotions like pure friendship and paternal love. He also considers Himself a servant of Lord Krishna. Indeed, who is there who does not have this conception of being a servant of Lord Krishna? He who is Sesha, Sankarshana, with His thousands of mouths, serves Sri Krishna by assuming ten forms. Rudra, who is an expansion of Sadasiva and who appears in unlimited universes, is also a gunavatara [qualitative incarnation] and is the ornament of all the demigods in the endless universes. He also desires only to be a servant of Lord Krishna.

 

6.80: Sri Sadasiva always says, "I am a servant of Lord Krishna."

 

CC Adi 6.89-91: Lord Sankarshana, who is one of His incarnations, always considers Himself a devotee. Another of His incarnations, Lakshmana, who is very beautiful and opulent, always serves Lord Rama. The Vishnu who lies on the Causal Ocean is an incarnation of Lord Sankarshana, and, accordingly, the emotion of being a devotee is always present in His heart.

 

6.92: Advaita Acarya is a separate expansion of Him. He always engages in devotional service with His thoughts, words and actions.

 

6.96: These are all incarnations of Lord Krishna, yet we always find that they act as devotees.

 

6.98: Lord Krishna is the source of all incarnations, and all others are His parts or partial incarnations. We find that the whole and the part behave as superior and inferior.

 

6.103: The sweetness of Lord Krishna is not to be tasted by those who consider themselves equal to Krishna. It is to be tasted only through the sentiment of servitude.

 

6.105-106: Baladeva, Lakshmana, Advaita Acarya, Lord Nityananda, Lord Sesha and Lord Sankarshana taste the nectarean mellows of the transcendental bliss of Lord Krishna by recognizing Themselves as being His devotees and servants. They are all mad with that happiness, and they know nothing else.

 

6.111: All the incarnations are entitled to the emotions of devotees. There is no higher bliss than this.

 

6.118: All glories, all glories to Sri Advaita Acarya! All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the superior Lord Nityananda!

[Guest guest]

 

I believe this is reffering to the Guna-avatara Shiva., but I cannot be sure.

 

The reason I say this is because in the Purport below it says, Shambu is a Saktyavesa-avatara. Then I saw the below Translation by Gurudeva, it says: 'Lord Çiva [sadäçiva].'. So this is reffering us that Lord Shiva is expanded from Sada-shiva, I hope thats right understanding!

 

 

That's right.

 

Swamiji tells us:

therefore whenever prayers for protection are offered to Lord Çiva, actually Lord Viñëu is indicated, for otherwise Lord Çiva is meant for destruction

 

 

When prayers for the Parabramha are offered to Guna avatar Shiva, actually Sadashiva/Vishnu is indicated.

 

It gets confusing because Shambhu is also called Sadashiva. And Mahesha-dhama is also called Sadashiva-loka!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

<font color="red">Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja: </font color>

'Shiva-tattva is very complex'

 

 

Lokanatha Mahadeva Parikrama - For Siva Ratri - Oct 10, 2001

In your purest form of Gopisvara Mahadeva, you are very powerful. ...

"O Gopisvara

Mahadeva! We have come to you. Here your name is changed and you have ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20011010.shtml - 17k -

 

 

Lokanatha Mahadeva

But if you are out here, crying to Lokanatha, Gopisvara Mahadeva,

praying, "Please

be merciful to me", He will first come to you and sprinkle his mercy upon ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20040816.shtml - 15k -

 

 

Lord Siva's Highest Benediction

The form of Gopisvara Mahadeva*[end note 3] was manifested by Lord Krsna's ...

["I daily worship Gopisvara Mahadeva, who is situated on the bank of Yamuna. ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture19970703a.shtml - 39k -

 

 

The Glories Of Lord Siva And Siva-Ratri

Sadasiva - the same Sadasiva who is Gopisvara Mahadeva - was manifest from ...

"I daily worship Gopisvara Mahadeva, who is situated on the bank of Yamuna. ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20000305.shtml - 41k -

 

 

For Peace In The Family

He will quickly take the form of Gopisvara Mahadeva – the form of a

gopi. He will

dress like a gopi with a veil, etc., and he will serve the gopis there. ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20020802.shtml - 23k -

 

 

The Appearance Day Of Lord Sri Rama - Mathura - Apr 4 2003

Gopisvara Mahadeva manifested as Hanuman and Baladeva appeared as Laksmana.

Satrugna and Bharata are also manifestations of Krsna because they are His ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20030404.shtml - 29k -

 

 

Vraja Mandala Parikrama Schedule 2003

(Vrndavana) Sri Gopinatha, Dhira-samira, Vamsi-vata, Gopisvara Mahadeva, Sri

Govinda-deva, Bankhandi. 14 October Tuesday. (by bus from Vrndavana)

Bhadravana ...

www.purebhakti.com/parikramas/vraja/vraja_sched_2003.shtml - 23k -

 

The Ocean Of Essence in a Bottle

He regularly offered obeisances to Bhandiravat, Rasa-sthali,

Vrndavana, Vamsivata,

Gopisvara Mahadeva, Yamuna phulina (the shore of Yamuna), the associates ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20011212b.shtml - 32k -

 

 

Siva-tattva - for Siva-ratri

He became Bankandi Mahadeva from Gopisvara. Do you know this history? ...

Then Gopisvara Mahadeva said, "Then I'm going to come very near to you – as ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture19970703.shtml - 37k -

 

 

Questions And Answers - The Process Of Pure Bhakti

So he has been told to be like Gopisvara Mahadeva, Gopisvara, gopi in

Vrindavana,

and he can give you the right direction, that Krishna is the Supreme ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20001204am.shtml - 29k -

 

 

The Ocean Of Essence in a Bottle

He regularly offered obeisances to Bhandiravat, Rasa-sthali,

Vrndavana, Vamsivata,

Gopisvara Mahadeva, Yamuna phulina (the shore of Yamuna), the associates ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20011212b.shtml - 32k -

 

 

Siksa-Guru

We want the help of Sankara when he is in the form of Gopisvara

Mahadeva. In that

form he will help us. For only giving up all bad habits, Nrsimhadeva will ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20010421.shtml - 50k -

 

-------

[Guest guest]

The Siva who lives in Kasi or Kailash in this world, is the amsa, or part of a part, of Svayam Sadasiva in Vrindavana. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami has ...

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20000305.shtml - 42k -

 

Lord Siva eternally resides in Lord Krsna’s abode, Vrndavana, where he manifests many forms to render devotional services to Him.

www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture19970703a.shtml - 39k

 

Sri Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika

 

77. Assuming the form of a cowherd boy, Lord Sadasiva danced with Lord Krsna in Vrajabhumi. This is confirmed by the following statement of the Siva-tantra, where Bhairava says:

 

78. "One day, during the great festival of lights in the month of Karttika, Lord Krsna enthusiastically danced with Lord Balarama and Their cowherd friends.

 

79. My dear Parvati, when Lord Sadasiva, my spiritual master, saw this transcendental dancing, He yearned to become a cowherd boy and be able thus to dance with Lord Krsna.

 

80. By Lord Krsna's mercy Lord Sadasiva was able to appear in two forms. In one form He remained as Lord Sadasiva, and in the other form He appeared as a cowherd boy in Vraja."

[Guest guest]

 

According to the principle of tattva-gata-vicara, Lord Siva is a 'kala' of Krishna's expansion. This means that Sri Krishna's amsa, plenary portion, is Sadasiva, and Lord Siva is His fractional part.

 

 

In Sri Brahma Samhita we learn Shiva lives in Mahesha Dhama. And Mahesha Dhama is below Hari Dhama or Vaikuntha.

 

In Srila Rupa Gosvami's Laghubhagavatamrita it says:

 

sadAzivAkhyo yaH zambhuH sa caizAnyAvRtir matA ||298||

 

298 Lord Siva, who is known as Sadasiva and Sambhu, is manifest in the northeast part of Vaikunthaloka

 

 

[ult]

 

Tell you the truth I don't know anything about Lord Shiva because His tattva is very complex. SO until I study it with devotees, I doubt I will somehow figure it out myself. I believe only Vaishnavas know this truth.

 

ignorance make everything just like false so try to remove it first...