What is the connection between human love and spiritual love?

[krsna]

Love for devotees by Harimohan das

 

 

Posted on chakra February 13, 2005

 

Since the publishing of the exchange by Prithu das and Rambhoru dasi

prabhus, I have noted with interest the many letters addressing the

issue of compassion in the hearts of the devotees.

 

It seems to me that the real question is that of love: love in the

lives of the devotees. Over the many years that I have been attending

lectures in ISKCON temples, and in innumerable discussions that I have

had with devotees in the past, the most common attitude that I have

come across is that human love is at best something to be avoided or,

at worst, a real impediment (an anartha to be destroyed ) in

developing our Krishna consciousness.

 

The majority of the asana-sitters of the morning classes would repeat

incessantly that human love is an illusion, that the only real love is

that of Krishna's. More so, human love was almost always equated with

sexual lust, ignoring the vast difference between the two. Maya, Maya,

Maya, they cried out.

 

While this resonates perfectly with the counter-culture origins of our

society, where parents and family may have seemed 'the enemy,' who

would destroy our faith, given any kind of a chance, it is legitimate

to ask whether the emotional wasteland that this attitude has created

is the field in which the plants of a durable family life -- and, by

extension, a viable society -- can be seeded.

 

The fruits of this assault on love itself are dysfunctional families,

emotionally starved (if not neglected and abused) children and stilted

relations between devotees. Instead of love being the basis of

personal relationships, what appears are the power struggles in

marriages and the sexual politics of ISKCON. When we lose the ability

to love, we rely on power: it is a last ditch effort to somehow hold

onto something meaningful in our lives.

 

Many devotees still retain the qualities needed for success in

interpersonal relationships: honesty of the heart, personal courage,

humility and kindness. But many, also, having failed to navigate our

societal demands of self-abnegation and self-denial, are left with

life's bitter fruits: being hurt, rejected, despised by their children

and estranged from their spouses. A few have lost the ability to love,

their hearts dried out; and some live in dislocated marriages where

they are even ashamed of the partners to whom they have sworn a

lifetime of loyalty.

 

In this, the only thing greater than our illusions are our

pretensions. Our illusion is that, in piety and devotion, our men --

who control the general scheme of things -- are so much greater than

our women. Our pretension is that we can build a society on this

foundation of misogyny. It would be honest to admit that the majority

of devotees who have left the movement, have done so not out of doubt

of the spiritual process, but out of the deep disappointments in their

relationships with other devotees. Indeed, this was the conclusion

reached in a survey, conducted many years ago, by a devotee named

Shukavak das, and published under the title, Apostasy and Krishna

Consciousness.

 

This bodes ill for a relatively small religious movement like ours,

which has far greater aspirations. In India at least, we have a chance

for success; there we operate within the cultural context of, yes,

Hinduism; here in the West, we operate in a vacuum. There, in India,

is a codex of shared, accepted, personal behaviors, passed on from one

generation to the next. This is called a Personal Law, and it is the

skeleton on which the body of a society is built. In the

forty-some-odd years that this movement has existed, we have yet to

formulate a spiritual Personal Law -- hopefully based on love and

trust, and not on power and control) -- that would guide us in these

matters and help us avoid tragic mistakes in our personal lives.

 

Where does human love fit into the scheme of things? Maybe the answer

to this lies in two further questions: one philosophical and the other

prosaic. The philosophical question is this: What is the connection

between human love and spiritual love? Does love for Krishna preclude

love for each other? Or more fundamentally, what is the nature of

Krishna: Is He the jealous God of the Abrahamic religions, who demands

all love and loyalty for only Himself, or is He truly the reckless

lover of Vrindavan, who loves all, without reason and without

distinction? Which version of God is greater? Can we not say that

Srila Prabhupada's mission is to make the Lamb of Abraham lie down in

the Land of Vrindavan?

 

The other, everyday question is this: Could our loving personal

relationships actually enrich our spiritual lives, rather than detract

from them?

Could it be that the more we love, the more we love God?

[Guest guest]

Krsna das, Dandavats,

This is the reality, I think we will find a whole generation of the first wave in Prabhupads movement are a mixed up bunch, they are the first born so to speak, that in a sense have been the sacrificial lambs to the fire yagna establishing the foundations of the temple to dedicated to Krsna, especially in the west.

 

We have come from a mlecha background (extremely fallen) spiritually poverty stricken and altho 1st class candidates for Patita Pavana, many of us are causeless mercy cases, that may well be appreciative for the life line that is extended to us, still we have a half a life of sinfull conditioning and misconception we have to consciously shake off. Whereas those later generations have been born into a little better sukriti, but still influences by the residue of their parents conditioning from a material impersonal upbringing, so it will take time to sort out collectively, before it gets into the positive level of Ruchi overall.

 

Whereas Indians do have a foundation of culture bred into their consciousness that is just 2nd nature, in how marriage and even general ettiquette should be exchanged. Of course there are exceptions to the rule on both sides but generally we were on the crossover point, where west met east, and we were instruments of change that helped draw attention to sanatan dhama. Even if we could'nt fully live up to that high standard ourselves. Many of us sadly, have taught by bad example, what not to dofor suceeding generations.

 

This issue of personal development is absolutely imperitive to get right individually and collectively or the whole family will continue to behave disfunctionally. As Srila Sridhara Maharaj would say "Set yourself right, and the whole environment will also be adjusted"

There is no doubt that Love of God and love of your brethren go hand in hand. Once again Srila Sridhara Maharaj would say you can generally measure your love of Krsna by your relationships with the jivas, your brothers and sisters. Of course they may not harmonize with you, but you can always harmonize with them.

This is a very relevant issue that should seriously be given more attention.

Where else is spiritual love played out other than thru the humans heart to heart transactions, If God is in every heart?

"Love me-- Love my servitor."

[Guest guest]

Good post.

 

 

Love for devotees by Harimohan das

 

 

Posted on chakra February 13, 2005

 

Since the publishing of the exchange by Prithu das and Rambhoru dasi

prabhus, I have noted with interest the many letters addressing the

issue of compassion in the hearts of the devotees.

 

It seems to me that the real question is that of love: love in the

lives of the devotees. Over the many years that I have been attending

lectures in ISKCON temples, and in innumerable discussions that I have

had with devotees in the past, the most common attitude that I have

come across is that human love is at best something to be avoided or,

at worst, a real impediment (an anartha to be destroyed ) in

developing our Krishna consciousness.

 

The majority of the asana-sitters of the morning classes would repeat

incessantly that human love is an illusion, that the only real love is

that of Krishna's. More so, human love was almost always equated with

sexual lust, ignoring the vast difference between the two. Maya, Maya,

Maya, they cried out.

 

While this resonates perfectly with the counter-culture origins of our

society, where parents and family may have seemed 'the enemy,' who

would destroy our faith, given any kind of a chance, it is legitimate

to ask whether the emotional wasteland that this attitude has created

is the field in which the plants of a durable family life -- and, by

extension, a viable society -- can be seeded.

 

The fruits of this assault on love itself are dysfunctional families,

emotionally starved (if not neglected and abused) children and stilted

relations between devotees. Instead of love being the basis of

personal relationships, what appears are the power struggles in

marriages and the sexual politics of ISKCON. When we lose the ability

to love, we rely on power: it is a last ditch effort to somehow hold

onto something meaningful in our lives.

 

Many devotees still retain the qualities needed for success in

interpersonal relationships: honesty of the heart, personal courage,

humility and kindness. But many, also, having failed to navigate our

societal demands of self-abnegation and self-denial, are left with

life's bitter fruits: being hurt, rejected, despised by their children

and estranged from their spouses. A few have lost the ability to love,

their hearts dried out; and some live in dislocated marriages where

they are even ashamed of the partners to whom they have sworn a

lifetime of loyalty.

 

In this, the only thing greater than our illusions are our

pretensions. Our illusion is that, in piety and devotion, our men --

who control the general scheme of things -- are so much greater than

our women. Our pretension is that we can build a society on this

foundation of misogyny. It would be honest to admit that the majority

of devotees who have left the movement, have done so not out of doubt

of the spiritual process, but out of the deep disappointments in their

relationships with other devotees. Indeed, this was the conclusion

reached in a survey, conducted many years ago, by a devotee named

Shukavak das, and published under the title, Apostasy and Krishna

Consciousness.

 

This bodes ill for a relatively small religious movement like ours,

which has far greater aspirations. In India at least, we have a chance

for success; there we operate within the cultural context of, yes,

Hinduism; here in the West, we operate in a vacuum. There, in India,

is a codex of shared, accepted, personal behaviors, passed on from one

generation to the next. This is called a Personal Law, and it is the

skeleton on which the body of a society is built. In the

forty-some-odd years that this movement has existed, we have yet to

formulate a spiritual Personal Law -- hopefully based on love and

trust, and not on power and control) -- that would guide us in these

matters and help us avoid tragic mistakes in our personal lives.

 

Where does human love fit into the scheme of things? Maybe the answer

to this lies in two further questions: one philosophical and the other

prosaic. The philosophical question is this: What is the connection

between human love and spiritual love? Does love for Krishna preclude

love for each other? Or more fundamentally, what is the nature of

Krishna: Is He the jealous God of the Abrahamic religions, who demands

all love and loyalty for only Himself, or is He truly the reckless

lover of Vrindavan, who loves all, without reason and without

distinction? Which version of God is greater? Can we not say that

Srila Prabhupada's mission is to make the Lamb of Abraham lie down in

the Land of Vrindavan?

 

The other, everyday question is this: Could our loving personal

relationships actually enrich our spiritual lives, rather than detract

from them?

Could it be that the more we love, the more we love God?