Was Bush Right After All ??? (To Go to the Middle East and Kick Butt ! )

[Guest guest]

Actually, Srila Prabhupada has said that nationalism is a disease, a false identification.

 

I dont hate america, but I do know the actual history of those who have run this nation to the ground. My wife is appalled at the killing going on now, but I know that such killing has always gone on, in the name of the perverted idea of manifest destiny. More died under reagan than both bushies combined, but reagan is seen as such a great guy. Even though he presided under the death squads of central american banana dictators, even though he presided over the horrendous cocaine explosion in this country and even supported it, even though he made deals with Iran, Saddam, Osama Bin Ladin that caused the present mess, he is regarded as a hero. But I am not a hate monger against america, like you seem to hate europe. I just feel very sorry for those who do not buy into the anti-christian armageddonism and have to suffer the consequences.

 

You speak of sobriety very casually while america is drunk with illusion of winning the cold war, so drunk, in fact, that they wasted the possible peace dividend on creating a huge and insolvent military expense, which is sending our sons and daughters into the slaughterhouse of impious war.

 

And it wasnt Ollie North acting independently back then. He is a marine, and "semper fi" means following orders. But the fact remains that 2,000,000 americans died during reagans regime by his arrangement.

 

Oh, maybe you dont regard Guatamalans, Hondourans, Nicaraguans, Salvadorans as americans. Maybe these are weenies because they have better tans than we do? Why are europeans weenies? Because they take care of their parents with healthcare? Or maybe because they pay their workers a livable wage and give them more time with their families?

 

Or are you one of those american purists that have slaves do your dirty work for $5.50 per hour, no benefits, no overtime? You probably want to do away with this minimum wage as well, to make sure that Gates will have 49 billion in profit instead of his meager $43,000,000,000 per year.

 

Or are you one who cheers a tax cut that gives you $1,000 back while the corporations get billions back by the same bill, and still raise their profit margin so your $1,000 is gone in a week.

 

No, I dont hate america, I loathe those who have ruined the possibilities that the constitution posed, and work very hard to destroy that document as well.

 

Its okay, the rapture is on its way anyway, the James Watts of the world (reagans interior secretary and guru) work very hard to propel the second coming of the Christ that states clearly that he knows them not.

 

mahak

[rand0M aXiS]

as the radio waves have fried your brain too.

[krsna]

 

 

Got get'em at the OK Nuke corral. Yep, Bush is a man who walks his talk. Look what he did in Iraq. The Crusade is under way. Next stop Iran.

[Guest guest]

I'd like to see the world lookin like ma native state there's just somethin' spiritual about deserts, maybe it's all that Texas tea under 'em, affords us our lifestyle.

The kids to come? Hell they love automobiles.

Kyoto Accord what is that, some new model a' Honda.

 

The United States pumps out more CO2 than the entire rest of the world combined. We as a species pump as much CO2 into the air each year as you would get from burning down every tree in Canada each year.

 

Transportation accounts for 40% of the problem. The number of cars is growing world wide ten times faster than the population. Every US gallon of gasoline burned produces 9 kg (20 pounds) of CO2. It would take a large tree about a year to absorb this much CO2. One reader was skeptical the CO2 produced could weigh more than the gasoline. Recall your high school chemistry. When gasoline (an octane/hexane mix) burns each carbon atom (atomic weight 12) joins with an oxygen molecule containing two oxygen atoms (atomic weight 16) from the air. The oxygen forms 73% of the weight of the resulting CO2.

 

 

[rand0M aXiS]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk

 

March 13, 2005

 

Revealed: Israel plans strike on Iranian nuclear plant

Uzi Mahnaimi

 

ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans for a combined air and ground attack on targets in Iran if diplomacy fails to halt the Iranian nuclear programme.

The inner cabinet of Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, gave “initial authorisation” for an attack at a private meeting last month on his ranch in the Negev desert.

 

Israeli forces have used a mock-up of Iran’s Natanz uranium enrichment plant in the desert to practise destroying it. Their tactics include raids by Israel’s elite Shaldag (Kingfisher) commando unit and airstrikes by F-15 jets from 69 Squadron, using bunker-busting bombs to penetrate underground facilities.

 

The plans have been discussed with American officials who are said to have indicated provisionally that they would not stand in Israel’s way if all international efforts to halt Iranian nuclear projects failed.

 

Tehran claims that its programme is designed for peaceful purposes but Israeli and American intelligence officials — who have met to share information in recent weeks — are convinced that it is intended to produce nuclear weapons.

 

The Israeli government responded cautiously yesterday to an announcement by Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, that America would support Britain, France and Germany in offering economic incentives for Tehran to abandon its programme.

 

In return, the European countries promised to back Washington in referring Iran to the United Nations security council if the latest round of talks fails to secure agreement.

 

Silvan Shalom, the Israeli foreign minister, said he believed that diplomacy was the only way to deal with the issue. But he warned: “The idea that this tyranny of Iran will hold a nuclear bomb is a nightmare, not only for us but for the whole world.”

 

Dick Cheney, the American vice-president, emphasised on Friday that Iran would face “stronger action” if it failed to respond. But yesterday Iran rejected the initiative, which provides for entry to the World Trade Organisation and a supply of spare parts for airliners if it co-operates.

 

“No pressure, bribe or threat can make Iran give up its legitimate right to use nuclear technology for peaceful purposes,” said an Iranian spokesman.

 

US officials warned last week that a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities by Israeli or American forces had not been ruled out should the issue become deadlocked at the United Nations.

[theist]

Israel has no option. Let's remember these are same people who fund suicide bombers. Mutualy assured destruction won't deter them from taking a first strike shot at Tel Aviv.

 

Their "peacrful purposes" claim is the most obvious bs only a leftist would believe it. They are trying to get a 850 mile natural gas pipeline built to send their excess natural gas to India.

 

The last thing the world has time for is to have the matter taken up by the UNproductive.

[Kulapavana]

"Israel has no option"

 

LOL!

[theist]

After Syria, a UN role in Lebanon?

Many reject the idea of UN peacekeepers. Monday, more than 500,000 attended an anti-Syrian rally in Beirut.

By Nicholas Blanford | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

 

BEIRUT - The withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon has spurred some members of the United Nations Security Council to assess the possibility of dispatching a stabilization force to fill any security vacuum that might arise.

 

After all, the Lebanese government for years has justified Syria's troop presence by saying it was helping ensure peace and that a hasty departure could destabilize the country that has a history of civil war between its many competing sectarian and political influences.

 

Past peacekeeping efforts in Lebanon have ranged from the disastrous Multi-National Force (MNF) mission in 1983 - that was driven out of Beirut by a barrage of suicide bombers - to the impotent UN peacekeeping effort in south Lebanon.

 

Although no concrete steps have been taken by the UN, for Timur Goksel, a university lecturer in Beirut and former senior adviser to the UN Interim Force In South Lebanon (UNIFIL), sending peacekeepers to Lebanon to replace Syrian troops would be a "monumental blunder."

 

"I cannot see a United Nations security force taking over from the Syrians. It would be suicidal," he says.

 

The Syrians began pulling back their forces last week in the first part of a two-phase redeployment that will eventually lead to a full withdrawal. Some 4,000 of the 14,000 soldiers have returned to Syria, while another 4,000 joined the 6,000 troops already deployed in the Bekaa Valley in east Lebanon near the Syrian border.

 

As the redeployment continued Monday, hundred of thousands of anti-Syrian protesters gathered in central Beirut in the biggest rally yet to commemorate the assassination four weeks ago of Rafik Hariri, the former prime minister. A crowd estimated at well over 500,000 crammed into Martyrs' Square, waving red and white Lebanese flags.

 

The Syrian troop withdrawal has inflamed passions in Lebanon and spurred a series of anti-Syrian and pro-Syrian rallies, underlining concerns that the departure of Syrian forces is polarizing Lebanese society.

 

Three weeks ago, Lebanese Prime Minister Omar Karami warned that a Syrian troop withdrawal could destabilize the country and questioned whether the Lebanese Army was up to the job of handling internal security.

 

"We tried this before," he said, referring to the collapse of the Lebanese Army when it was ordered to intervene in the 1975-1990 civil war. "Do we want to try this again, and at what cost?"

 

But diplomats in Beirut believe that the Army is capable of handling internal security and that Mr. Karami's comments were a last ditch effort to stave off a Syrian withdrawal.

 

A UN official in Lebanon says that talks within the Security Council on the deployment of a peacekeeping force was in the "early stages" and that "nothing concrete" has been planned. The British foreign secretary, Jack Straw, earlier this month suggested that the 2,000-strong UNIFIL could be deployed from its current location in south Lebanon to areas from which the Syrians are withdrawing.

 

But now that the departure of Syrian forces is a reality, the Lebanese government is not considering requesting a stabilization force, according to an official at the Lebanese foreign ministry.

 

Lebanon's Hizbullah organization also has rejected the idea of foreign troops being sent to Lebanon. "There's no link between a withdrawal of Syrian forces and an outside force coming in," says Mohammed Afif, a senior Hizbullah spokesman. "To say that the departure of the Syrians leaves a void is wrong. The Syrians helped create peace in Lebanon."

 

Lebanon has a history of being unkind to international peacekeepers.

 

In 1958, during Lebanon's first civil war, the US Marines were sent to Lebanon to support Lebanese President Camille Chamoun. As the Sixth Fleet approached Beirut, the US ambassador, Robert McClintock, convinced that the Lebanese Army was capable of halting the violence, ordered his naval attaché to sail out to sea to stop the Marines from landing. The attaché was ignored and the heavily armed marines stormed the beaches at Khalde at the southern end of Beirut to find themselves confronted by bemused bikini-clad sunbathers.

 

Marines returned to Beirut in 1982 as part of the four-nation MNF to oversee the evacuation of Palestinian guerrillas from Beirut after Israel invaded Lebanon. Initially welcomed by the Lebanese, attitudes changed when the US Navy, stationed off the Beirut coast, began shelling the positions of militias opposed to Lebanese President Amin Gemayel. Suddenly, the Americans had become just another militia in the eyes of the Lebanese. On the morning of Oct. 23, 1983, a suicide bomber drove an explosives-laden truck into the US Marine barracks beside Beirut airport. The blast killed 241 American servicemen. The French paratroop barracks was hit simultaneously by another suicide bomber, killing 58 soldiers. The MNF withdrew four months later.

 

Then there is UNIFIL, the UN peacekeepers deployed in south Lebanon in March 1978, days after Israeli staged its first invasion. UNIFIL was tasked with overseeing the withdrawal of Israeli forces. But the Israeli Army never left, and UNIFIL found itself wedged between Palestinian guerrillas to the north and Israeli troops and their mainly Christian militia allies to the south. In the end it was the unstinting campaign of resistance waged by Lebanese Hizbullah guerrilla fighters that compelled Israel to withdraw its troops in May 2000.

 

Mr. Goksel served with UNIFIL from 1979 to 2003 and is well aware of the inherent risks of well-intentioned foreign armies descending upon Lebanon. "There is no external force that can fill the void left by the Syrians," he says. "This is an internal policing matter, not a role for peacekeepers. If you get involved in local politics, then you become part of the problem not part of the solution."

 

 

[theist]

I noticed you laughed out loud but failed to mention a viable option. Perhaps you would sketch one out for us.

[Guest guest]

Lets just shape the world the way we Americans want it, I mean everybody that lives in America is blissfully contented. Learn by our example. And we are the supreme authority on the destiny of our planet, what we say goes. Talk about arrogant BS, this isn't vaisnavaism.

No one else can develop Wmd, because they might use them on someone else, of course w'ed never do that, or is that we are the only ones who have ever done that.

How come it isn't attacking China for developing them, too big a force mr president.

When we were pitted closer to equal in the jungles of Viet-Nam we lost outright, so we've got to bring out the big threats to cower those who don't see eye to eye with us into submission.

Paranoia just breeds more paranoia,

Israels eye for an eye philosophy isn't the teachings of Jesus or Lord Chaitanya. Time to transcend these archaic ways for the higher Truth.

Lord Chaitanyas' followers empathize with a single loss of life, they don't delight in giving pain to any other soul, for they see with equal vision the dog and the dog eater the sinner and the saint, therefore they don't politically affiliate to teams, countries, casts, colours or sectarian creeds.

Even tho they see all may be suffering from illusion they give their lives to relieve that suffering thru spreading the Nam sankirtan movement.

But another war will make another great entertainment package for CNN and the armchair philosophers. Life's a little dull without our nightly pyrotechnics now, isn't it?

[theist]

This is the world review board. I am surprised that one so fixed in transcendental vision as you would even post here.

[Guest guest]

He's talking to the transcendentalist, but I'll answer if I may?

 

Remember tolerance, humility and giving honor to all never expecting any in return is the essence, so let us seek it.

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

Break through the thick burquas, head scarves and black veils that is blighting the world. So that mosques become crematoria for all those wicked Islamists and their ilk.

[theist]

 

Remember tolerance, humility and giving honor to all never expecting any in return is the essence, so let us seek it.

 

 

So if someone walks up and pees on your mother's leg what do you do? Offer pranams? Nah! You kick him the testicles and then the face when he doubles over in pain. If he pees on you then you can show tolerance for his misdeeds if you like.

 

"Soft as a rose and hard as a thunder bolt."

[Kulapavana]

"Israel has no option. Let's remember these are same people who fund suicide bombers. Mutualy assured destruction won't deter them from taking a first strike shot at Tel Aviv."

 

so in your opinion, the only option Israel has is to strike first? laughable, CROOKED logic! Israel's nuclear arsenal is the VERY REASON Iraq and Iran wanted nuclear capability. And did I mention that it is EQUALLY illegal?

 

the options for Israel I would suggest? an HONEST and FAIR peace treaty with it's neighbours, withdrawal from occupied territories and FAIR agreement with Palestinians regarding land taken from them for illegal Jewish settlements.

 

of course I realize that Israel would rather start a nuclear world war than do the above.

 

[Kulapavana]

"Poster: krsna

Re: What we need is another "Shock and Awe" campaign for each Muslim theocracy on earth

 

Break through the thick burquas, head scarves and black veils that is blighting the world. So that mosques become crematoria for all those wicked Islamists and their ilk. "

 

Please answer me: do you really think like that?

 

if so, you are just like the nazis. No, actually most nazis did not openly call for extermination of Jews - so you are more like the most rabid SS types.

 

*shakes head in disbelief*

[krsna]

 

Are you the same Kula?

 

********************************

 

Location: Prabhupada Village, NC, USA

Interests devotional community development

varnashrama dharma implementation

gardening

sailing

 

 

Biography: I have joined Iskcon in 1979 (England), preached in Poland from 1979 to 1983, later connected with temples in Germany and USA. For the last 8 years living and serving Krishna in Prabhupada Village.

 

I was originally (1980) initiated (diksa) by Harikesa Swami. Currently I draw inspiration from, and strive to follow, the techings of Srila Prabhupada, as well as those of Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja.

 

***************************

 

Then why call me a nazi for wanting to rid the earth of Islamic terrorists?

[theist]

Maybe you heard of a war in the sixties when all of Israel's neighbors tried to crush Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. The express and yes charter written goal of the Arabs is to wipe out the Jews. The only thing 5that prevented them was Israel kicked their butts big time and in short order.

 

I have intention of trying to rehash the recent history of that mess. Suffice it to say that at the end of the Clinton administration a deal had been reached in which Israel had agreed to 98% of the Palestinians land demands keeping only a small sliver of areas vital to their own defense. But then that slimball Arafat started the current intifada and the suicide bombing campaign. Interesting how much progress has been made since that stinking snake died.

 

You so-called solution is extremely sophmoric.

[Kulapavana]

yes, I am the same person (do we know each other?), but what does that have to do with this sentence:

 

"Break through the thick burquas, head scarves and black veils that is blighting the world. So that mosques become crematoria for all those wicked Islamists and their ilk. "

 

By many accounts over 100,000 INNOCENT civilians were killed by US forces in Iraq in the process of "eliminating the threat" to world peace (non-existing threat, I might add). Now you are on a crusade to kill "wicked" people US basically CREATED by its actions?

 

how many thousands more must die for you to feel "safe"?

 

how can you reconcile such blatantly materialistic and shortsighted world view with your devotional aspirations?

 

 

[Kulapavana]

Israel has enough conventional forces to be safe. 1968 was a proof of that. As to Israel being the peace dove: hahahahahahahahahaha /images/graemlins/smile.gif both sides certainly deserve each other...

 

BEING A PEACE DOVE DOES NOT GET YOU NEW LAND!!!!!!

 

(just look at all these illegal settlements this "peace loving" country built on captured land).

 

they were always stalling the peace process to create "new reality on the ground"

 

anyway, I have about as much sympathy for Arabs as I have for Israelis, but dont tell me that war and slaughter is the only option Israel (or US) has...

[krsna]

Now you are on a crusade to kill "wicked" people US basically CREATED by its actions?

 

how many thousands more must die for you to feel "safe"?

 

how can you reconcile such blatantly materialistic and shortsighted world view with your devotional aspirations?

 

***********************************************

 

Hey Kula, you got me.

[Guest guest]

From a well known Jewish troubador

Man of vision

MASTERS OF WAR

 

Come you masters of war

You that build all the guns

You that build the death planes

You that build the big bombs

You that hide behind walls

You that hide behind desks

I just want you to know

I can see through your masks

 

You that never done nothin'

But build to destroy

You play with my world

Like it's your little toy

You put a gun in my hand

And you hide from my eyes

And you turn and run farther

When the fast bullets fly

 

Like Judas of old

You lie and deceive

A world war can be won

You want me to believe

But I see through your eyes

And I see through your brain

Like I see through the water

That runs down my drain

 

You fasten the triggers

For the others to fire

Then you set back and watch

When the death count gets higher

You hide in your mansion

As young people's blood

Flows out of their bodies

And is buried in the mud

 

 

[Guest guest]

We may think these songs are outdated, but they do have a certain timelessness to them

 

Blowin in the Wind

 

How many roads must a man walk down

Before you call him a man?

Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail

Before she sleeps in the sand?

Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly

Before they're forever banned?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

 

How many times must a man look up

Before he can see the sky?

Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have

Before he can hear people cry?

Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows

That too many people have died?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

 

How many years can a mountain exist

Before it's washed to the sea?

Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist

Before they're allowed to be free?

Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,

Pretending he just doesn't see?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

 

 

[gHari]

It seems to me that the fight in Iraq is now against the Iraqi Mafia - the thugs who terrorized the land under warlord Sodamn Insane. No one in Iraq is free of fear of these thugs now.

 

I would ban cars until the monsters have been ferreted out. It's time for every Iraqi citizen to identify these villains - it's time to just kill these rabid dogs.

 

Don't let them hide in the mosques. Crumble the mosque on their sick heads - do what God wants done.

[theist]

 

 

Israel has enough conventional forces to be safe. 1968 was a proof of that.

 

 

 

That is your argument? Convential forces don't stop nuclear tipped warheads on missles. You must have more than that.