Was Bush Right After All ??? (To Go to the Middle East and Kick Butt ! )

[Guest guest]

I get a little sick to the stomach, how everyone parrots the media about muslim terrorists.

THIS IS AN OXYMORON! a muslim is by definition no terrorist and a terrorist is by definition not a muslim. they are mutually exclusive.

the patterns repeats - first dehumanise, then demonise and so the impersonal aspect takes over. being anti arab is being anti-semite, since both people are semitic, if you like bodily designations so much.

Now you all wake up to reality please and realise THE WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR AGAINST PEOPLE AND WILL ONLY BEGET MORE TERROR.

there is no fool so stupid as the one with a little brains. he is momentarily the president of the USA.

you amurrikans have allowed the bush bunch to steal the elections twice. if you don't stand up, you deserve to be ruled like that. please come away from even that physical designation and kick out that man in the white house. then you have won the war on terrorism.

VdK.

[Guest guest]

 

"No need for ksatriyas-it's the age of Aquarius afterall"

 

If Prabhupad wanted ksatriyas he would have come to us in the form of a politician, and made real ksatriyas, not the celluloid ones you elect to run your state and country.

For someone who has been preaching Prabhupads vani for years on these forums you seem to miss the point that he wanted vaisnava brahmanas. NOT ksatriyas. If anything the imitation ones in his movement caused far more problems than constructive growth and harmony.(sorry to use the word harmony that may be a little too Aquarian)

 

We're under no illusions of what Age we're in nor the process recommended by our gurus shastra and Lord. Of course some people with higher direct connections to the supersoul, may know better and can create their own version as they go.

 

kaler dosa-nidhe rajann asti hy eko mahan gunah

kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet

krte yad dhyayato visnum tretayam yajato makhaih

dvapare paricaryayam kalau tad dhari-kirtanat

 

"My dear king, although Kali-yuga is full of faults, there is still one good quality about this age: simply by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, one can become free from material bondage and be promoted to the transcendental kingdom. Self realization that was achieved in the Satya millennium by meditation, in the Treta millennium by the performance of different sacrifices, and in the Dvapara millennium by worship of Lord Krishna can be achieved in the Age of Kali simply by chanting the holy names, Hare Krishna." - Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.3.51-2

 

 

 

 

"That you can count on. But just wait awhile I'm sure they have plans to bring Fallujah to you."

 

The more they see of the things you guys advocate the more that process will certainly be fast tracked.

 

 

[gHari]

"This is all mistake, all rascaldom. A murderer must be killed. No mercy. Why a human killer? Even an animal killer should be immediately hanged? That is kingdom. The king should be so strict.

 

So this sympathy is like Arjuna's sympathy. The sympathy... Now the state is sympathizing with the murderer not to be killed. This is Arjuna. That is hRdaya-daurbalyam. That is not duty."

 

"Similarly, it is the duty of the government to kill at once all bad social elements such as thieves, dacoits and murderers."

 

I spoke of the murderers who are blowing up innocents by the dozens everywhere in Iraq now. They are murderers. I don't care whether they call themselves Muslims, Shiites, Christians or Vaishnavas. Neither Srila Prabhupada nor Vyasadeva seem to make any secular distinction when they condemn murderers to death. By your same measurement, are they not also rabid dogs in your mind for advocating the killing of murderers instead of your 'yuga-dharma'?

 

[krsna]

Yogesvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.

 

Prabhupada: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabham manusam janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity--he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not? So what is the use of going to see another woman naked? You are seeing every day, every night, your wife naked. Why you are... Because they have no other engagement. The animals. Punah punas carvita-carvananam. That a dog, it does not know what is the taste. He is simply chewing the, one bone, this way, that way, this way, that way. Because he is animal. He has no other engagement. So this whole society is animal. Especially the westerners. And they have developed a civilization on that animal propensities, means "I am this body, and the best use of my life is to gratify senses." This is animal. "I am this body." Body means the senses. "And to satisfy the senses is the highest perfection." This is their civilization. So you have to introduce real human civilization. You should not be surprised, an animal, in different shapes, in different capacity, comes out. After all, he is an animal. The basic principle is animalism. Because he is thinking, "I am this body..." As the dog is thinking, "I am dog, very stout and strong dog," so another man is thinking, "I am big nation." But what is the basic principle? A dog is also thinking on the basis of his body, and this big nation is also thinking on the basis of body. So there is no difference between this dog and this big nation. The only difference is that human being, by nature's gift, he got better senses. So... And he has no power, or there is no education to utilize the better senses, how to advance spiritually and get out of this material world. That he has no sense. He is simply using that better intelligence for animalism. This is the meaning. He has no education how to utilize the better intelligence. Therefore he is utilizing only in animalism. And people all over the world, when they see the westerners, "They are advanced." What is that? Advancing in animalism. Basic principle remains the animalism. They become surprised. They also imitate. So they are expanding animalism, animal civilization. Now we have to counteract for the benefit of the human civilization.

 

Satsvarupa: They are so ignorant that...

 

Prabhupada: An animal is always ignorant.

 

Satsvarupa: When we stress on this point, they become very shocked that we talk like this.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopayati na...(?)

 

Satsvarupa: "You are calling us animals?"

 

Prabhupada: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same. You are doing in a larger scale, I am doing in a small scale. That is the difference." So he was set free, "Yes." Alexander the Great, he was sensible man, "Yes, what I am doing? The same thing in a bigger scale that's all." So these rascal, actually, they are animals, but they are declaring advancement. What advancement? The same thing: eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That is animal... The dogs also do like that. They also eat, they also sleep, they have sex life. Now they are coming to the dog's life. A dog, just like street, they have sex life. They are coming, advance. This is advancement, that "We have become now pure dog. So long it was hidden, now we are open." This is the civilization, animal civilization.

 

Yogesvara: So many social reformers will agree with you...

 

Prabhupada: What social? He is animal. How he can reform?

First of all, let him become man. What reform? What is the meaning of his reform? He is animal also. That's all. You cannot expect any reformation by the same animal. That is explained. Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. The so-called leader he is also animal, and he is eulogized by another animal. This is going on. And another animal, one animal, big animal is being elected as the president. Therefore you are suffering. Nixon. What is Nixon? He is also another animal. And the animals have elected him president. Just see. This is going on. Where is the human being?

 

Dhananjaya: Just like in the forest. The animals, they select the lion to be the king.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice." I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, "Yes, there is no God." I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. "You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex." So I am just speaking opposite, from the beginning of my preaching. So why you are coming? So if you stick to your position, real human civilization, people will come, gradually. Because they have got the sense. When we say others are animals, demons, we don't say whimsically, capriciously, no. On the basis of sound knowledge. Therefore our declaration is completely right. We are not mental speculators, that I say some gentleman, "You are animal." No. I see, I know, that he is animal. Therefore I say. A man is running his motorcar, (makes sound) rarararara, and a dog is running. We don't see any difference, although he is on the motorcar. We don't find any difference. He is as good as the dog. Unnecessarily he is running. What is the meaning of running of the dog?

 

Dhananjaya: Actually the man is making more noise than the dog.

 

Prabhupada: That's all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That's all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.

 

Yogesvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.

 

Prabhupada: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.

 

Yogesvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other."

 

Prabhupada: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacari, naisthika-brahmacari, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.

 

[s.P. Morning Walk, May 28, 1974, Rome]

[krsna]

TRANSLATION: A cruel and wretched person who maintains his existence at the cost of others' lives deserves to be killed for his own well-being, otherwise he will go down by his own actions.

 

PURPORT: A life for a life is just punishment for a person who cruelly and shamelessly lives at the cost of another's life. Political morality is to punish a person by a death sentence in order to save a cruel person from going to hell. That a murderer is condemned to a death sentence by the state is good for the culprit because in his next life he will not have to suffer for his act of murder. Such a death sentence for the murderer is the lowest possible punishment offered to him, and it is said in the smrti-sastras that men who are punished by the king on the principle of a life for a life are purified of all their sins, so much so that they may be eligible for being promoted to the planets of heaven. According to Manu, the great author of civic codes and religious principles, even the killer of an animal is to be considered a murderer because animal food is never meant for the civilized man, whose prime duty is to prepare himself for going back to Godhead. He says that in the act of killing an animal, there is a regular conspiracy by the party of sinners, and all of them are liable to be punished as murderers exactly like a party of conspirators who kill a human being combinedly. He who gives permission, he who kills the animal, he who sells the slaughtered animal, he who cooks the animal, he who administers distribution of the foodstuff, and at last he who eats such cooked animal food are all murderers, and all of them are liable to be punished by the laws of nature. No one can create a living being despite all advancement of material science, and therefore no one has the right to kill a living being by one's independent whims. For the animal-eaters, the scriptures have sanctioned restricted animal sacrifices only, and such sanctions are there just to restrict the opening of slaughterhouses and not to encourage animal-killing. The procedure under which animal sacrifice is allowed in the scriptures is good both for the animal sacrificed and the animal-eaters. It is good for the animal in the sense that the sacrificed animal is at once promoted to the human form of life after being sacrificed at the altar, and the animal-eater is saved from grosser types of sins (eating meats supplied by organized slaughterhouses which are ghastly places for breeding all kinds of material afflictions to society, country and the people in general). The material world is itself a place always full of anxieties, and by encouraging animal slaughter the whole atmosphere becomes polluted more and more by war, pestilence, famine and many other unwanted calamities.

 

 

[s.B. 1.7.37]

[Guest guest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/story_of_the_war/html/default.stm

[theist]

what is like to get gassed? I guess we could ask the Kurds.

 

Horrible world we have taken birth on. I also wonder what it was like to be a common foot soldier and be sliced by a sword or pierced by an arrow.

 

War is hell as they say.

[krsna]

Most authors have first attributed Sherman's statement, "War is Hell" to his presentation at the Ohio State Fair in 1880. The following account was published in the History of Oakland County regarding Sherman's address to the cadets of the M.M.A.

 

Eyewitness, Dr. Charles O. Brown, said that ,

 

'the reason the reporters missed the famous statement, and later denied that it had been made, was that the reporters rushed away as soon as Sherman started reading his long, technical speech. But before he sat down, the General suddenly said, ‘Cadets of the graduating class’ – the students arose and saluted – and then changed it to ‘Boys,’ making this statement:

 

‘I’ve been where you are now and I know just how you feel. It’s entirely natural that there should beat in the breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the skill you have acquired here.

 

‘Suppress it! You don’t know the horrible aspects of war. I’ve been through two wars and I know. I’ve seen cities and homes in ashes. I’ve seen thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the skies. I tell you, war is hell!’

 

The reporters had missed the biggest story of the day. Brown, seated alongside Sherman, wrote down the speech verbatim."

 

The Enquirer and News (Battle Creek) 18 November, 1933.

 

[Guest guest]

Re: US Won the Cold War and LIBERATED Eastern Europe.

-------------------------------

the US won nothing and Gorbachov 'liberated' eastern europe.

-------------------------------

Another dubious claim is that Mikhail Gorbachev was the

designer and architect of the Soviet Union's collapse.

_____________

 

the most dubious clainm of all is to credit the US or reagan with the liberation.

the US never could and still cannot win anything against the russians. they cannot even win in Iraq.

Grenada was also not an undivided success but rather a debacle.

VdK

[Guest guest]

what a load of poppycock!!! innocents do not exist.

Amurrikans blew up WTC and amurrikans are killing 'ínnocent' Iraqis.

VdK.

[Kulapavana]

Prabhupada: "...big animal is being elected as the president. Therefore you are suffering. Nixon. What is Nixon? He is also another animal. And the animals have elected him president. Just see. This is going on. Where is the human being?"

 

my point precisely: Bush or Binladen - both animals. you cant solve the problem of terrorism by being a BIGGER animal! lol!

 

[rand0M aXiS]

<center></center>

[Kulapavana]

he he... I did not know you were so much into dog racing? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[rand0M aXiS]

I can't. What a waste of time talking to moonbats that equate Bush and Binladen as morally equivalent. I've got better projects. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

/images/graemlins/grin.gif Here's some more good news from Iraq:

 

 

Baghdad Christians celebrate Palm Sunday without fear

Asia News ^ | March 21, 2005

 

Baghdad (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Iraqi Christians crowded Palm Sunday services in Baghdad. “We are not afraid,” said Mayssoun Ishoo, a Syriac Catholic who, with other faithful, attended services at Our Lady of Deliverance in Baghdad to start Holy Week celebrations.

 

The church was one of the five Christian places of worship hit by bomb attacks in August 2004. It was further targeted by another bomb last October. But yesterday, Palm Sunday, it was hit by throngs of people, families with their children.

 

Arriving at the church the faithful performed the traditional act of reverence before the statue of Our Lady which stands in the Church yard, now protected by cement blocks to discourage car bombs.

 

Hundreds of people, olive branches in their hands, eagerly participated in the mass service. They were relaxed and their faces did not have that edginess of some months ago.

 

During the procession, many reached out to touch the bronze cross carried by the celebrating priest.

 

“Attacks in the last few months have not stopped us from attending service,” many of them said.

 

Still, Mgr Shaba Matoka, head of the Syriac Catholic Church, said that “we are not always certain that we can live in peace”. In his opinion, the “troublemakers are not true Iraqis, but foreigners and those who serve foreign interests”.

 

Speaking about the country’s many religious groups, he stressed that “everyone in Iraq in Iraq has expressed the desire to live together”.

 

Even talk about introducing Sharia law in Iraq has not raised concerns among Iraqi Christians.

 

“I don’t cover my head like Muslim women,” said a Christian woman, who was wearing smart make-up and was accompanied by her two daughters clad in jeans.

 

Christians were also delighted to hear that Minas al-Yousifi, a Christian political leader abducted in Baghdad on January 28, was released last Friday.

 

The ‘Iraqi Vengeance Brigades’ had claimed the kidnapping and demanded a US$ 4 million ransom and the withdrawal of foreign troops. Eventually, the kidnappers asked only for US$ 400,000.

 

In a dramatic video footage al-Yousifi, who had spent 20 years in exile in Sweden, appealed to the Pope and the King of Sweden.

 

Upon his liberation Mr Yousifi, who heads Iraq’s Christian Democratic Party, said no ransom was paid.

[Kulapavana]

"What a waste of time talking to moonbats that equate Bush and Binladen as morally equivalent"

 

as usual, you keep misconstruing what other people say to suit your needs, or is it lack of attention?

 

 

[Guest guest]

it must have struck a nerve /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kulapavana]

"If the shoe fits ...it must have struck a nerve"

 

sounds like one of them world famous Dubya quotes... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

 

Just another cunning manipulator of the truth