Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hare Krishna, We took birth in this material world coz we are envious of Krishna... Once we chant and go to Eternal Goloka, Soul will become part and parcel of Krishna and there is no rebirth... My questions are.. 1.What is the guarantee that we will not be envious of Krishna again after reaching Goloka??... 2.If there is no rebirth after reaching Goloka, then how come we took birth initially if soul is part and parcel of Krishna in Goloka??... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Is that first time we had no experience that what a terrible thing it would be with out krishna. And if we succeed to reach there again we will have experience and will never want that terrible thing again. YS, dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 What is the guarantee that we will not be envious of Krishna again after reaching Goloka??... You are your own guaruntee. The only protection from yourself is to deepen and intensify your love for Krsna at every moment so the thought of leaving never arises. This is the one awesome responsibility of being marginal energy as I see it. No one will kick you out. No one will ever be responsible for a jiva's fall except the jiva himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hare Krsna, << What is the guarantee that we will not be envious of Krishna again after reaching Goloka?? >> BG Chapter 15, text 6 "na tad bhäsayate süryo na çaçäìko na pävakaù yad gatvä na nivartante tad dhäma paramaà mama" " That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." "Those who reach it never return to this material world" ... there's your guarantee. The Lord guarantees it Himself. The example given is that just like a child who burns his finger remembers never to stick his finger in fire again, we'll remember never to make that mistake again. As regards your second question, I'd think the fall to this material world only occurs once (going by the verse above) but I've seen posts here with Prabhupad's conversations where he says it could occur again and that we should be careful. So I'm not too sure. - Bharath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Hare Krishna please accept my dandavat pranam These are very nice questions. You asked: 1.What is the guarantee that we will not be envious of Krishna again after reaching Goloka??... Simply because envy is a material quality and does not manifest in the spiritual realm (the transcendental envy only causes further attachment to Krishna). The apparent contradictory example of Jaya-Vijaya is explained by Srila Prabhupada as follows: Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.16.26 purport Therefore, just as on a theatrical stage someone takes the part of enemy to the proprietor of the stage, although the play is for a short time and there is no permanent enmity between the servant and the proprietor, so the sura janas (devotees) were cursed by the sages to go to the asura jana, or atheistic families. That a devotee should come into an atheistic family is surprising, but it is simply a show. After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. But sometimes, as the Lord desires, devotees come into this material world as preachers or as atheists. In each case we must understand that there is a plan of the Lord. Lord Buddha, for example, was an incarnation, yet he preached atheism: "There is no God." But actually there was a plan behind this, as explained in the Bhagavatam. Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.16.29: The Lord then said to His attendants, Jaya and Vijaya: Depart this place, but fear not. All glories unto you. Though I am capable of nullifying the brahmanas' curse, I would not do so. On the contrary, it has My approval. PURPORT As explained in connection with text 26, all the incidents that took place had the approval of the Lord. Ordinarily, there is no possibility that the four sages could be so angry with the doorkeepers, nor could the Supreme Lord neglect His two doorkeepers, nor can one come back from Vaikuntha after once taking birth there. All these incidents, therefore, were designed by the Lord Himself for the sake of His pastimes in the material world. Thus He plainly says that it was done with His approval. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for inhabitants of Vaikuntha to come back to this material world simply because of a brahminical curse. The Lord especially blesses the so-called culprits: "All glories unto you." A devotee, once accepted by the Lord, can never fall down. That is the conclusion of this incident. You asked: 2.If there is no rebirth after reaching Goloka, then how come we took birth initially if soul is part and parcel of Krishna in Goloka??... Because we come from the tatastha region (marginal position) and not from spiritual realm. Though we are spiritual in nature, we are manifest by the marginal potency in the tatastha region meaning the fine boundary of the spiritual and material worlds. In that situation the jiva is simultaneously "exposed" to both the realms; those who are attracted by maya-sakti enter tha material world, while those who are attracted by Krishna enter the spiritual world. The baddha-jivas come from Lord Mahavishnu (Krishna), so in that sense they were with the Lord and have fallen from their constitutional position viz. krsna-dasya. Srila Prabhupada's letter to Jagadisa Maharaja (1970) Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly like deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. From Krsna Book Chapter 28 The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly. From Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur's Jaiva-Dharma: A jiva is a spark of the eternal consciousness. A jiva is first situated on the line of demarcation between the material world and the spiritual world. There those jivas who do not forget their relation with Krsna derive the power of consciousness and are drawn into the spiritual world-they come in eternal touch with Krsna and enjoy beatitude arising from the worship of Krsna. And those who forget Krsna and give themselves up to maya's enjoyments, maya with her own force draws them into herself. It is from that very moment that we fall into the misery of this world. When He desired to have His adherent attendance 'nitya-parsada' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha, etc. He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parsada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds. He reveals the three Forms of Visnu, viz. Karanodakasayi, Ksirodadasayi and Garbhodakasayi. At Vraja He reveals His own Nature as Krsna with cit in fullness; as Baladeva, He reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service of Himself as Sri Krsna. Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarsana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Narayana. Mahavisnu, the Incarnation of Sankarsana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-sakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha-sakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya. Innumerable jivas, overcome fastened by maya, are attached to the three gunas. (sattva, rajah, tamah) of maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-sakti that begets the jivas, and not the cit-sakti. There are two types of jivas liberated from maya -- nitya-mukta, eternally liberated, and baddha-mukta, those who were bound but became liberated. The jivas who were never bound by maya are called nitya-mukta. The nitya-muktas are also of two types, aisvarya gata nitya mukta and madhurya gata nitya mukta. The former are the associates of Lord Narayana in Vaikuntha and are the atomic particles from mula Sankarsana. The latter are the associates of Lord Krsna in Goloka. They are the atomic particles of Sri Baladeva situated in Goloka Vrndavana. So there are two kinds of nitya-mukta jivas, one from Lord Baladeva and another from Lord Sankarsana who enter the spiritual world and they never come under the influence of material energy (that is why they are called nitya-mukta). The conditioned souls are called nitya-baddha (and when they attain their constitutional position then sadhana-siddha), and come from Lord Maha-vishnu from the tatastha region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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