Krsna Father, Prabhupada Son and Paramatma Holy Spirit???

[krsna]

Is that the Christian/Vaisnava take on the Holy Trinity/Bhagavan, Bhakta, Paramatma Realzation?

 

Especially when preaching to Born Again Christian/Hindus we need a fine tuned siddhanta to bring Philosophy into Religion and Religion into Philosophy without fanatacism...

 

Can some devotees here summarize in a few words as eloquently as possible please?

[theist]

Would it be wise to bring up Prabhupada? They tend to blaspheme.

[theist]

Some more esoteric Christians say the the Holy Ghost is actually a special order of individual enlighten souls who as their service are assigned to individual embodied souls here on the earth plane to act as guides and helpers and lead us back to God realization.

 

Maybe. I don't know but for sure to be genuine they must be acting sympathetic to the instructions of Supersoul so I find it best to just zero in there.

 

There is no need for Christians to accept terminology they are not familiar with. So it might be more productive to help inspire them to seek the Lord in the heart in the name and spirit of Jesus Christ and to try to follow his instructions as they renounce the world.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Make that don't bring up any 'living devotees', only the ones that are now 'gone.

[Kulapavana]

Christians themselves have serious disagreements as to the nature of the Holy Trinity - why do you think you can come up with a few-sentence "magical" explanation for them, especially based on our siddhanta?

 

Anyway, if you insist:

 

The most likely (if unflattering) interpretation - their "Father" is most likely Lord Brahma, whose "Son" (or more likely an incarnation) is Jesus of Nazareth. As to the "Holy Ghost" it can be Brahman or Paramatma (not likely!) pitris or Yamaraja.

 

 

[Guest guest]

A TRINITY PERSPECTIVE by mahaksadasa

 

Haribol, all glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga!

 

Often the Christian World uses the concept of "Trinity" to describe their accepted faith. However, when this is put to submissive inquiry, such theology is simply described as a mystery. Though the three aspects of the Absolute Truth are valid, attempts to merge these ideas into One Supreme Being pose a dilemna.

 

In the Vaisnava School, the word "trinity" can be used to explain the process of verification of Absolute Truth which has elaborate explanation, that is Guru-Sadhu-Shastra.

 

Guru is none other than God the Father, the worshippable Lord in the Heart, referred to by the jnanis as Paramatma, yet further understood by the Vaisnava as Sri Sesa Balarama, Sri Nityananda Prabhu, Who, when sincerely and submissively approached by the means He creates, Guru Tattwa, one can be led to swarupa siddhi, the true constitutional, eternal position of the self. The process of Guru- Tattwa is that this Lord in the Heart, also called Chaitaguru, arranges for a sincere person to approach His representative, one entirely in unison with His Divine Will empowered by the loving exchange between the Two. Though also called Guru, such a person always appears as servant and is always cognizant of such service. Such service rendered to Lord Nityananda is so pleasing to Him that He is pleased to act through such that the person actually attains a certain divinity. This invested divinity is never misused or misadvertized, rather it is humbly exhibited in such a way as to attract others to the process shown by the servant of the Lord. This unified acting by the Lord and His representative, Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga, is called Bhakti Yoga.

 

An empowered representative is divine by delegated authority invested by the Supreme Lord. Such a person is called "Sadhu". He is also recognized by the terms "Son of God" or "Gurudeva". Often, teachings of Lord Jesus Christ are used to convey deeper meanings toward helping establish (rekindle) relationship between the self and the Supreme Being. Purists may object, but the author questions the purity of such decisions. Lord Jesus Christ is universally recognized as Sadhu, so all His teachings are pertinant to discussion of the Vaisnava criteria of guru-sadhu-shastra.

 

Some may imagine that the sadhu is the lawgiver for humanity, but this is never the case. Lord Jesus Christ rejects this idea, warning, "Do not lay down rules other than I have appointed for you, for if you make law as the lawgivers, you will become restrained by it." Some say "blasphemy", but it is a fact that the sadhu exhibits Love of the Supreme Person to attract the sleeping souls, and such attraction minimizes the negative attributes. Sinful activity naturally gives way to proper behavior by the grace of Sadhu, and the regulative principles simply become the classic "always remember the Lord and Never forget Him". Srila Rupa Goswami confirms that these two things are the all-in-all purpose of the strictures of sadhana bhakti. The above quotation from the Gospel of Mary of Magdalia (Nag Hamadi Library) rather confirms that the Sadhu is pleased that His message is presented in full, without overstepping His glory.

 

Some may spend lifetimes comparing the sadhus, some even think that the material change called death somehow detracts from His message, thus concoct the need to take away His example of servitude and install Him as the One Who has empowered Him. Such ideas are quite independant from the teachings of Sadhu and only serve as a means to lose all attraction to He Who sent Him. If one tells a son that his father's will is not considered, how can the son accept the proposal? The Sadhu exhibits Loving Service by his free will, any desire to replace the master is absent from such a purified person.

 

Shastra is none other than the teachings of the Father through the Son, the Holy Spirit distributed freely to those who have ears to hear. Shastra is the written Word as well as that which is aurally received. Written Word is an additional blessing to the sleepers of the last 5000 years. Prior to this time, all shastra was sung by the Sadhu and understood by those with ears to hear. But, by His Causeless Mercy, Sri Govinda comissions some of His Empowered Representatives to compose literature to help the human beings rekindle their forgotton relationship with the Supreme Lord.

 

How does one decide which literature is a product of authorized Empowerment?

 

This is a proper question, and is easily answered by one dovetailing his will, imbued with service attitude, to the Will of the Supreme Person. In Srimad Bhagawatam, the answer is available to all:

 

 

"That literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories, names, forms, pastimes, associates, etc. of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation (Than the regulative Veda), full of transcendental words directed toward bringing a revolution in the impious lives of the world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified souls who are thoroughly honest." (SB 1:5:11)

The author of the Vedas, Srila Vyasadeva, is faced with this very question. He created shastra, yet without the sanction of Guru and Gauranga, it was incomplete. Sri Gurudeva, Narada Muni, exhibits His relationship with the Supreme Lord to Vyasadeva, and the result is the total commentary of the Veda in accordance with the definition cited above. The Goswamis of Vrndavana and their loving servants continue to compose such perfect shastra.

 

Many who claim to be of the Christian faith will automatically reject any answer to their theological mystery, but Lord Jesus Christ teaches only to those with ears to hear. The Vaisnava Sadhu humbly canvasses for the One Who has sent Him, He does not hide the Lord in the Heart from the assembly (Ps 40). Some may reject Paramatma thinking they are beyond His effect, that this is a lower truth. They, too, face the lonliness of forgetfulness. Paramatma, Lord Nityananda, Sri Chaitagurudeva, is the only One Who has full memory, and rememberance of swarupa siddhi comes from Him only. The trinity of guru-sadhu-shastra is the Supreme Absolute Truth, in combination, these three aspects form an exhibition of the actual personal relationship between the self and the Supreme Lord.

 

All glories to the assembled devotees, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

[Guest guest]

Speak to each individual on the merit of their realization.

There is no use talking to a Christian in another language, the Lord will speak to them in the language of the heart, if they deserve it they will intuitively sense divinity in your delivery, we did in Srila Prabhupad and others. The details will be filled in as ones faith develops.

 

Although all are the children of God, Prabhupad and our Guru Varga are intimate friends of Krsna. How do you express that to a kanista adhikari without raising eyebrows.

[theist]

Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. Nobody can say the Bible was meant for the same class of men as the Bhagavad-gita. And Bhagavad-gita is the ABC's of spiritual knowledge. Beyond that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. How great Srimad-Bhagavatam is nobody can imagine. And beyond that is Caitanya Caritamrta. But beginning from the Bible or Koran, on up the principle remains the same. Just like beginning from the pocket dictionary, up [excerpt letter to sivananda Aprip 4, 1968}

[theist]

Christians say it is a mystery and they are right. The material mind cannot house such an understanding. They say mystery and devotees say acintya.

 

The problem arises when we feel we must force an understanding of this into our small minds. It is fruitless. We can only get one aspect at a time. Jesus is God. Yes. Jesus is subordinate to Krsna Yes. "But that doesn't fit with him being God and still subordinate."

 

We say it doesn't fit in our small minds so the necessity is to expand our small minds to accommodate this truth and not try to reshape the truth to make it fit into our small minds.

 

To accept acintya as truth is difficult. We like everything to fit into nicely arranged categories so as to be easily subjected to our scrutuny be this is not possible with Krsna or subjects relating to Krsna. He is always a another step beyond us.

 

So for Christians, and all devotees, we have to accept as truth the statements our the acaryas that this subject of simultaneous oneness and difference is acintya. Jesus said as much in John. In one place he says "I and the Father are one..." in another he says "the Father is greater than I". This is exactly what Prabhupada taught.