To Babhru das

[Guest guest]

I am considering asking for initiation from you.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

What an unusual way to approach someone. Do you know Babhru? Why would you consider such a thing?

 

Just wondering.

[Avinash]

Our dear Prof. Softhearted has still not replied. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Perhaps he has still not seen this thread.

 

BTW, I am curious to know more about the guest who started this thread.

[stonehearted]

Prof. rockhead confesses to being a little unsure how to respond to an anonymous, public post such as this. This does indeed seem an unusual way to open a dialog on this subject. If the writer is serious, the professor would probably like to know why he or she thinks he has anything at all to offer, much less the divya-jnana essential to initiation.

 

And yes, do you know me? Why me, for heaven's sake? If you actually feel there's a need to discuss this further, please write me privately at babhru{at}gmail{dot}com. Maybe we can figure out together how best to get you going. I beg the Lord for more service every day, but if you desire to make spiritual progress, you very likely deserve better.

[Guest guest]

I am not so sure if this is an unusual way of approaching someone for initiation. After all bringing Vaishnavism and Krishna conciousness to the West by Srila Peabhupad is unprecedented in itself. Also the very fact that we are using the internet for sanga is unheard of during Lord Caitanya's time.

 

Yes, I know Babhru das in general as I have been reading audarya-fellowship for almost three years now. I believe that most of the regular forummers here are more Krishna conscious than some of the leaders in ISKCON.

 

I chose Babhru das as I believe firstly, that he can give freely Krishna to me.I have followed his posts in this forum and I have learned wisdom from his post which I believe is not contrary to the teachings of his Gurudeva. As his livelihood does not depend on the institution, I think he has no vested interest other than to impart Krishna to anyone who will listen. Also he is one of the eldest in terms of being in Krishna consciousness -- he is one of the first group of disciples of ACBSP.

 

This is the first time I have approached someone for initiation. The concept of Krishna conciousness is not new to me. I would say that I know the "history" of Iskcon, past and present.

 

Krishna came into my life almost 30 years ago. First through Siddha Swarup in the Philippines (which, I'm sure Babhru das knows, well to drop some names , I have also met Sudama Vipra).Then I felt that there must be something higher than Siddha Swarup's teachings so I searched for ISkcon. I actually have lived in the Iskcon ashram in the Philippines for sometime, until I left to work outside. But you all have to understand that during those times the zonal gurus like, Kirtananda, Hansadutta, Bhavananda took turns in the Phils.

 

To make this short, (I will write to you in a considered way, Babhru prabhu, in your private email in the next few days) my association with Iskcon spanned almost 30 years in different degrees of involvement and SERVICE. I tried my best to chant my japa everyday. I do attend an Iskcon temple and mindful of the 4 regs. I am now in Australia.

 

I sometimes think of Geprge Harrisson who never took initiation and left his body hearing the Lord's names. However, unlike me, he had met a pure devotee-- Srila Prabhupad. I just feel I need guidance from a devotee who is deeply in Krishna consciousness. Thus I am approaching you. Babhru prabhu. BTW I am in a woman's body.

 

Will send you a more private reply very soon. Hare Krishna.

Dandavat pranam

[stonehearted]

Dear friend, thank you very much for your kind words. They actually mean a lot to me because they're the result of many years' experience in practicing Krishna consciousness, and because they seem to express sincere appreciation for things I've written here and elsewhere. I find that very encouraging. And yes, this is a very 21st-century way to develop a relationship and probably not all that unusual. My Godbrother Sankarshan das has a Web site where he offers some packaged instruction in Krishna consciousness, and I'm sure that he uses it to cultivate folks and prepare them for initiation, either from himself or other ISKCON devotees. Srila Prabhupada personally told me that devotees and devotional service cannot be stereotyped and that there's nothing that cannot be engaged in Krishna's service; we just need guidance from the expert spritual master how to do so.

 

Yes, I knew Siddhasvarupananda well; I lived with him at the Honolulu temple beginning when he surrendered himself, his followers, and their property to Srila Prabhupada at the end of 1970. (I had been living in the temple since the beginning of that year.) I later worked with him on Maui ('76-'77). Although I haven't seen or spoken with him for quite a long time (he's rather reclusive), I do associate fairly regularly with old friends here on the Big Island who are his disciples.

 

I find it worth noting that everyone who has approached me as a guru (there have been several) has been someone with a lot of experience with devotional service, and their commitment to Krishna consciousness hasn't been completely undone by my association. I'm certainly not canvassing for disciples, at least for myself, but I do have a progressively profound desire to use whatever time, energy, and talents I have for helping others deepen their appreciation for this sublime life. My experience as a teacher is that teaching is a powerful way to keep going ever more deeply into the subject you teach. So I'll be happy to help you in whatever ways I can.

[theist]

I wasn't going to write on this thread but since I am not in control of my senses I can't stop myself.

 

Krsna is allowing us all to witness a very beautiful and natural thing here. No mounds of application forms being filed or certificates on the wall stating one's qualifications with an offical stamp as the seal of approval. This is personalism. Dare I say love?

[krsna]

And Preacher means Teacher.

 

Those who can teach but those who really can preach!

 

Stony is a Preacher Teacher Par Excellance!

[Guest guest]

Haribol. This song is dedicated to Babhru and all my godbrothers, who must know how to act.

 

 

....

 

All, c-1993-mahaksadasa

 

one sure way to be pleasing to your teacher

learn all the lessons, then pass them along

bring your light into the darkest of caverns

all who have eyes will see what is going on

 

the greatest musician taught you to play

all who have voices will want to sing along

the greatest of scholars gave you the words

all who have ears will surely hear your song

 

after hearing philosophy and putting it to the test

all who have feeling will win this holy war

when the gift of pure love is placed at one's disposal

all who have heart will never cry any more

 

if you ploclaim and sing the ballad of your master

all who have minds will know what this life is for

don't hold back now, not after what you have been given

all of the world is needy and at your front door

 

.....

 

In this regard, Siddhaswarupananda paramahamsa set a great example for us to emulate. He was a guru in his own right, with perhaps as many as 100 disciples. Yet, he did not hesitate in the slightest degree to send all his disciples to one he was taking instructions from. Srila Prabhupada congratulated him profusely for this act of humility and proper action.

 

Each of us must act properly. If not us, then who? This is the purport of this song, the world is at the front door of those trained up by authoritive spiritual guidance. There is no danger at all, no risk at all, in approaching any devotee of the Supreme Lord for guidance and training. Srila Prabhupada initiated disciples for a far greater reason than to engage them in deity worship and give them fancy names. The initiation is specifically for continuance of Parampara, and there is full linkage to parampara, even by accepting a student as a guide, there is no risk.

 

I always surmise that if one holds on to one who is holding on to the lifeline left available, then rescue is assured. A disciple of a disciple is the meaning of this parampara, and my song is encouragement for all my peers to become fearless, following in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada, and increase this movement by any means possible.

 

And, Babhru, give me regard to Yoza. Last time I heard about him, he had a big boat, oh, how this quarter of a century has passed us by, no shame, eh brah!

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS re inquiry, I was thinkin of babhru in the same light.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I was a guru once, and I failed miserably, but those who approached me did not fail at all. Saw one brother 15 years after major rift, and his altar was intact, his practices continued.

 

And, I have many gurus who may be demons now, but I have duty to save them because they saved me.

 

Just the way I look at things, and I have that right, because I am persistantly vegetative (oh wrong thread)

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

And Preacher means Teacher.

 

Those who can teach but those who really can preach!

 

Stony is a Preacher Teacher Par Excellance!

 

With a very serious consideration on his plate.

 

 

Here is some helpful well-wishing rememberance that is already known to most on this forum from H.G.Srila Sridhara Maharaj:

 

The Direction of Perfection

 

Devotee: What if one has a desire to preach?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: To preach under the direction of our gurudev is safe because his order, his guidance is connecting us with the supreme authority. Working under the direction of that general is necessary, not to take the whole responsibility on oneself, that is risky. For that you must be sure of some higher connection.

 

Internal Inspiration Or False Ego

 

Disciple: How does one become empowered to preach Krishna consciousness?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: The general request of Mahaprabhu is to propagate in a general way. But in a particular way to give the name of the mantra and take full responsibility, that is more difficult. Whoever initiates the Name to another and makes him a disciple, taking their complete charge, must be very careful it is not given haphazardly. We can inform of the purity and holiness of the Holy Name to one and all, but to take charge of a particular person giving wholesale relief from the bondage of maya, that sort of responsibility can only be taken when one gets internal inspiration to do that, and it is a great risk. Anyone who has not properly come to this standard should not give Harinam to anybody. That is over-eagerness to capture the position of guru for our own name and fame, or some other aspiration without sanction or license. That should be avoided otherwise reaction will come. The general news of the greatness and glory of the Name is allowed for everyone to spread to every corner of the world and fully endorsed to do so. But the responsibility of a guru to take the whole burden of disciples upon themselves, unless they are purified and empowered to do so, that is risky. And that should be accepted only when one feels a particular inspiration and urge within. Spiritual means internal and we have faith in that internal wealth. It is not imagination, it is reality. It is more real than the world in which we are living. Strong faith must be there. We must feel the Truth and then we shall try to distribute that Truth to others, and the Truth is a person. We must be settled in that plane. As long as our position is flickering, how can we help others? If we are settled in that plane and have some instruction from caitya-guru and inspiration to accept the risk and responsibility to deliver others, then we can extend to anyone everywhere. Through guru we can see parampara, vaisnava, the Lord, everything may be revealed through him. From guru to guru, that is guru-parampara, it comes in this way, like so many lenses assembled together, that is like the telescopic system where the distant becomes near. The Lord and the spiritual world become tangible. So guru-parampara is like that, so many guardians, so many helpers.

Here in the land of exploitation, we want many servants - “I shall be master and have respect and much wealth will be at my disposal.” We aspire after that, but it is the opposite in the upper realm. We want many guardians, many who think good of us, “I shall be servant to them all and they will be gracious to me.” That will be my wealth, so many well-wishers, this is a healthy position, whoever has this mood has good health.

 

The Real Acharyya

 

Devotee: There are some people in the guise of vaisnavas acting as spiritual masters who want others as servants. How can we know who we can trust, who is pure?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: How do you know if one person is educated and another uneducated. One is intelligent, one is stupid? As much as you can come into the plane of intelligence, you can feel the intelligence in another person also. If you can feel within what is education, then you can tell if others are educated or not. So also when you come in contact with real pure devotion, you can feel it in you, then you will be able to judge whether their words and deeds are in accordance with devotional practices. A lawyer can understand a lawyer, a doctor can understand a doctor, in this way direct experience through faith. I may not understand who is a good doctor or have knowledge of medicine, but so many others whom I can trust appreciate him, so I will go to that doctor. He is a good doctor because he is recommended by so many gentlemen who I can put faith in, it is like this at first. Then when you have experience with the doctor, that his medicine cured me several times, I felt it myself, then I can recommend other patients to go to that doctor, his diagnosis, his medicine is very helpful and effective. In this way you will be able to know who is a real sadhu.

 

Symptoms of a Saint

What is the criteria of a vaisnava sadhu? You are to be acquainted with those qualities. The symptoms have been given in this way. There are many symptoms, but in a nutshell they must have an ever-increasing earnestness towards the Lord. They must have some clear progressive conception of who and what they are. They will be apathetic to worldly things i.e. kanak- greed for money or matter, kamini - no attraction to the opposite sex, and no desire for pratistha - name and fame, or popularity in the world. Rather ones' life should be engaged towards the transcendental. That is the general external qualification.

Then again mere withdrawal from this world is not the highest qualification, the renunciates instruction is more or less destructive, not constructive. The vaisnavas give some constructive idea of the spiritual world. Then amongst vaisnavas there are so many sections within sections. Srimad Bhagavatam has dealt clearly with all the gradations of the vaisnava faith. Different conceptions will reach different goals, according to the degree of purity.

 

 

 

 

 

[stonehearted]

Guest:

Here is some helpful well-wishing rememberance that is already known to most on this forum from H.G.Srila Sridhara Maharaj:

 

 

Thank you. This is the most helpful post in this thread, although I appreciate the kind words and advice in the other posts. Yes, we have to share what we've been given by our gurus, but we also need to do so in the way most appropriate for our positions. In the 11th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Lord tells Uddhava that real virtue, real beauty, is to clearly understand your actual position and act accordingly. My copy of Sri Guru and His Grace will get another good workout, make no mistake about it.

[Guest guest]

A good way to know who NOT to accept one as guru is one who is very EAGER to have disciples. The desire for the throne is a primary disqualification. Srila Prabhupadas very life and teachings show that his acceptance of Guru position, his acceptance of Guru Puja, all was done with humility, always thinking himself most unqualified.

 

The authority is exerted when the bond of guru/disciple is made, without a doubt. But even this is reluctant in the sense that the only reason a real guru would exert such authority over another is because this is his selfless performance of devotional service. Rupa says "accept guru puja, otherwise, the disciple will not know how to worship", so the authorized accepts guru puja, notbecause he desires the adulation, but because his DUTY requires it. Thus, even though seemingly exalted, the Guru is humbly performing samkirtana YAJNA (sacrifice).

 

So, ifoneapproachessomeone for initiation, and the person has an attitude like "Oh boy, now Im really a person to be reckoned with, and I git a disciple to prove it." Run like hell, and remember how many times Srila Gaura Kisora das babaji rejected Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswatis appeals for acceptance.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Then again on the other hand we have this from Srila Bhaktisiddanta Thakur. Of course we don't even qualify to stand near his shadow but he gave this example as all the great acharyas do, because the whole world is in 'emergency mode'. And the bottom line is people need guru now more than ever.

 

ASSUMING RESPONSIBILITY OF BEING GURU

By Srila Bhaktissidanta Saraswati Thakur

 

We have taken upon ourselves the responsibility of welcoming this grave charge. All the audience have accepted ordinary seats, I alone have been provided with a lofty seat. All are being told in effect 'Do have a look at a big animal from the Zoo-gardens. What arrogance! So foolish! So wicked! Have you ever seen such a big brute? Garlands of flowers have been put round his neck! What laudations! What bombastic long-drawn, and hyperbolic adjectives! And how complacently too he is listening to the praise of his own achievements, how intently, and with his own ears! He also evidently feels delighted in mind! Is he not acting in plain violation of the teaching of Mahaprabhu? Can such a big brute, so selfish and insolent, be ever reclaimed from brutishness?'

 

I happen to be one of the greatest of fools. No one offers me good advice on account of my arrogance. Inasmuch as nobody condescends to instruct me I placed my case before Mahaprabhu Himself. The thought occurred to me that I would make over the charge of myself to Him and see what He would advise me to do. Then Shri Chaitanyadeva said to me:

 

"Whom-so-ever thou meet'st, instruct him regarding Krishna, By My command being Guru deliver this land; In this thou wilt not be obstructed by the current of the world; Thou wilt have My company once again at this place."

 

In these verses is to be found the proper explanation of the apparent inconsistency noticed above.

 

He whose only teaching is humility greater than that of a blade of grass, said "By My command being Guru save this land!" In this instance Mahaprabhu Himself has given the command. His command being 'Perform the duty of the Guru, even as I do it Myself. Also convey this command to whom-so-ever you chance to meet.' Chaitanyadeva says, 'Tell them these very words viz, by My command being Guru save this land. Deliver the people from their foolishness.' Now who-so- ever happens to hear these words would naturally protest with palms joined - 'But I am really a great sinner; how can I be Guru? You are Godhead Himself, the Teacher of the world. You can be Guru.' To this Mahaprabhu replies: "In this thou will not be obstructed by the current of the world; Thou wilt have My company once again at this place."

 

'Do not practice the craft of a Guru for the purpose of injuring others through malice. Do not adopt the trade of a Guru in order to get immersed in the slough of this world. But if you can, indeed, be My guileless servant you will be endowed with My power - then you need not fear.'

 

I have no fear. My Gurudeva has heard this from his Gurudeva. And it is for this reason that my Gurudeva has accepted even such a great sinner as myself and has told me: 'By My command being Guru save this land.' It is only those who have never heard these words of Gaursundar who say 'How odd! to listen to one's own praise!' While the Guru is instructing his disciple in the eleventh Skandha of the Bhagavatam what a great sin, in their opinion, is he not perpetuating! What is the Acharya to do when he has to explain the Shloka 'Acharya Mam Vijaniyat: Never disregard the Acharya; never entertain the idea that the Acharya is your equal in any sense.' These are the words of Shri Krishna Himself by which the jiva is to be benefited. Is the Guru to take himself off, to desert his seat the seat of the Acharya - from which these words are to be explained?

 

That office his Gurudeva has conferred on him. If he does not act up to its requirements he is doomed to perdition by reason of his offense against the holy Name in the shape of disrespect towards the Guru. He has to do it in spite of the fact that such procedure is apparently open to the charge of egoism. When the Guru imparts the mantram to the disciple should he not tell him by this mantram to worship the Guru? Should he say instead, 'Give the Guru a few strokes of the shoe or the horse-whip?'

 

The Guru is never to be decried. The Guru is the abode of all the gods. Should the Gurudeva abstain from communicating these words to his disciple while reading the Bhagavatam to him? 'To him alone who possesses guileless spiritual devotion, similar to the transcendental devotion that is due to Krishna Himself, to the Gurudeva, the holy mysteries are manifested.' Is the Gurudeva not to tell these things to his disciples? 'Athau Gurupuja: the worship of the Guru has precedence over all others. The Guru is to be served just as Krishna is served. The Guru is to be worshipped in a particular way. Is the Guru to desert his seat without telling all these things to the disciple? In the angle there is always the defect in the shape of absence of the fullness, the evenness of level, of 180 degrees or of 360 degrees. But in the plain surface, in 360 degrees, there is no such defect. That in the emancipated state no defect is possible, this simple truth ordinary foolish people entirely fail to grasp.

 

As the saying goes, 'having started on the dance it is no use to draw close the veil.' I am doing the duty of the Guru, but if I preach that no one should shout 'Jai' to me, that is to say, if I say in a round about way, 'sing Jai to me,' it would be nothing short of duplicity. Our Gurudeva has not taught us such insincerity. Mahaprabhu has not taught such insincerity. I have to serve God in the straightforward way. The word of God has come down to the Gurudeva; I have to obey it in all sincerity. I will not disrespect the Guru at the instance of any foolish or malicious sectarians.

 

Especially as Shri Gurudeva has directed me saying, 'By My command being Guru save this land.' This command has my Gurudeva preached. My Gurudeva in his turn has conveyed the command to me. I will not be guilty of any insincerity in carrying out that command. In this matter I will not accept the ideal of ignorant, insincere, pseudo-ascetic sectarianism. I will not learn insincerity. The worldly-minded, the malicious, the pseudo-renunciationists, the selfish cannot understand how the devotees of God, spurning at everything of this world by command of God, never, not even for a second, deviate from the service of God through all the twenty-four hours

 

Hypocritical sectarians, pseudo-Vaishnava sects, those sects that cherish internally the longing for earthly fame, naturally enough think 'what a shame it is for one to listen to the eulogies of disciples occupying the seat of the Guru.' But every Vaishnava regards everyone of the Vaishnavas as the object of his veneration. When Thakur Haridas exhibits the attitude of humility Mahaprabhu says - 'You are the greatest of the world, the crest-jewel of the world. Be agreeable, let us have our meal together.' He carried in His arms the body of Thakur Haridas which is eternally existent, self-conscious and full of spiritual bliss. In the community that follows Shri Rupa, the qualities of desiring no honor for oneself and of readiness to duly honor others are fully present. Those who detect any disparity are, like the owl, blind while the sun shines. They commit an offense by such conduct.

 

If I disobey the law which has come down to me through the chain of preceptorial succession, the offense due to omission to carry out the command of the Guru will sever me from the lotus-feet of Shri Gurudeva. If in order to carry out the command of the Vaishnava Guru I have to be arrogant, to be brutish, to suffer eternal perdition, I am prepared to welcome such eternal damnation and even sign a pact to that effect. I will not listen to the words of other malicious persons in lieu of the command of the Gurudeva. I will dissipate with indomitable courage and conviction the currents of thought of all the rest of the world, relying on the strength derived from the lotus-feet of Shri Gurudeva. I confess to this arrogance. By sprinkling a particle of the pollen of the lotus-feet of my Preceptor scores of people like you will be saved. There is no such learning in this world, no such sound reasoning in all the fourteen worlds, in no man-gods, that can weigh more than a solitary particle of the dust of the lotus-feet of my Gurudeva. Gurudeva in whom I have implicit trust can never spite me. I am by no means prepared to listen to the words of any one who wants to hurt me or to accept such a malicious person as my preceptor. SBST

 

 

 

We keep forgetting that even madhyam assistence these days is an ocean of mercy to the dense confusion of this Martya Loka.

So Krsna Consciousness is the prime nessecity and can give relief to the billions that are suffering in illusion of a million perplexing issues all because Krsna is missing in the equation.

But it appears those of us who have had a genuine connection to a pure devotee of Krsna may just wait our whole life to become qualified, because the way today is riddled with fallen upstart gurus and their disheartened disciples and the stigma still pervades the Gaudiya vaisnava atmosphere, with many a skeptic that any of the new wave are fully qualified. If mercy is there then it is a big plus in this tormented and cynical world of exploitation.

With all the disillusion it doesn't mean there arn't very satisfied disciples and students around the world either.

I don't mean to dishearten our guest in any way as you couldn't be called a fool that rushed in, and seem sober and serious enough to be taking this step, and I applaud you for being brave enough to publicly approach Babhru, even if it may have caught him by surprise a little.

It is a nessacary step in everyones life. And your sincere approach to this will yield you a genuine connection to the family of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, where you can find a dignified life of inner fullfillment. The taste we all aspire to.

One piece of recommended advice if I may suggest is for a prospective disciple to spend perhaps 6 months around the company of the spiritual master so that both can gain a deeper insight into each others nature and motives etc.

[krsna]

THE FINGER AND THE BODY / ONE'S CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION

 

 

Devotee: We just read from Bhagavad Gita how Krsna will provide for us, that He helps those who help themselves. How do we help ourselves? How do we determine how we should do this?

 

Srila Prabhupada: By putting yourself under Krsna, that is helping yourself. If you think, "Oh, I can protect myself." then you are not helping yourself. Just like this finger, as long as it is healthy and working, if there is some trouble, I am willing to spend thousands of dollars to fix it. But if this finger is cut from my body and someone steps on it, you don't care for it. Similarly, to help oneself means to put oneself in his proper position as part and parcel of Krsna.That is real helping. Otherwise how can you help yourself? The finger can help itself by putting itself in the proper position of the hand and working for the whole body. If the finger thinks that, "I shall remain separated from this body and help myself." It will die. So as soon as you think, "I shall live independently with out caring for Krsna," that is my death. As soon as I engage myself as part and parcel of Krsna, that is my life. So helping oneself means to know ones position and to work in that way. That is helping. Without knowing what is one's position, how can one help oneself? It is not possible.

 

(Class by Srila Prabhupada Feb.1969 in LA)

[Guest guest]

From the above from Sridhar Maharaja

 

 

And that should be accepted only when one feels a particular inspiration and urge within. Spiritual means internal and we have faith in that internal wealth. It is not imagination, it is reality. It is more real than the world in which we are living. Strong faith must be there. We must feel the Truth and then we shall try to distribute that Truth to others, and the Truth is a person. We must be settled in that plane. As long as our position is flickering, how can we help others? If we are settled in that plane and have some instruction from caitya-guru and inspiration to accept the risk and responsibility to deliver others, then we can extend to anyone everywhere. Through guru we can see parampara, vaisnava, the Lord, everything may be revealed through him. From guru to guru, that is guru-parampara, it comes in this way, like so many lenses assembled together, that is like the telescopic system where the distant becomes near. The Lord and the spiritual world become tangible. So guru-parampara is like that

 

 

That is the relevant thing Sridhar Maharaja is saying. The idea is that the self realized spiritual master is the external manifestation of the Caitya Guru. In order for a person to be that, as Sridhar Maharaja advises, he must be on the plane where he takes instruction from Caitya Guru. That is the whole meaning of the parampara.

 

Krishna said to Uddhava:

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 11.17.27:

 

acaryam mam vijaniyam

navamanyeta karhicit

na martya buddhyasuyeta

sarva-deva mayo gurum

 

Know the acarya as My Self. I am the acarya . Never envy the acarya, never blaspheme him or consider him to be an ordinary man. Because the acarya channels the infinite, He is greater than the sum total of all the finite. Thus, he is more important than all the gods.

 

This is essential in understanding whether you are qualified to act as Guru. As Sridhra Maharaja and Krishna tells us, the highest level Guru, the self realized Acarya, is on the plane where he is channeling God, he is getting direct instruction from Krishna within.

 

That is the person Krishna is speaking about, the Acarya. Then again there are lower level Guru's who can also act as Guru and Acarya and initiate disciples if there is not a higher level Guru to do that.

 

From Sri Guru and his grace:

 

 

A spiritual master may be one of three kinds. The first class guru extends one foot from the spiritual world into the material world and takes souls from here to there. The guru in the intermediate stage is situated here, but he has extended one foot there and he is taking souls to the spiritual world. The lowest class of guru has both feet here, but he clearly sees the highest plane and is trying to take the souls from here to that plane. In this way, we may roughly conceive of three kinds of guru.

 

These are not three stages of Vaisnava, but three stages of guru. A first class devotee takes the position of an interrnediate devotee when he descends to play the role of an acarya, one who teaches by example. He has one leg there in the spiritual world, and by the order of Krsna, he extends another leg here in the material world to do the duty of an acarya. The guru who has one leg here in the material world and extends another leg into the spiritual world is a madhyama-adhikari, or intermediate devotee. He also discharges the duty of an acarya. The lowest class of acarya has both legs here in the material world, but his vision is towards the spiritual world. He may also do the duty of an acarya. These are the gradations of acaryas, and the different stages of Vaisnavas are another thing.(...)

 

Once I asked one doctor, "Do you know about disease perfectly? Then why do you venture to treat a patient? You have meager knowledge. You don't know his body fully. You treat him, and you are wrong." The doctor submitted to me. But an answer came in my mind that if we require every doctor to perfectly know everything about disease, then the whole method of treatment will vanish. Because they are all half-knowing and there is not anyone to be found in full knowledge, should this curing process be abolished? It is not possible. So in the case of all culture, one should help others in good faith.

 

In good faith, with whatever knowledge we have, we must sincerely help others. In that spirit one may take up the work of acarya, otherwise he will be blamed. But we must be careful that whenever a guru of superior quality is there, we must help others to accept him. We must not be a trespasser. It is also mentioned in the Hari Bhakti Vilasa that when a greater person is available, those of a lower type should not venture to make disciples. Suppose a farmer has fertile land and two kinds of seed. The good seed should be planted first. If the better seed is not available, then ordinary seeds may be sown. For the sake of the harvest, the better seed should be given the first chance. If we are detached, if we are pure in heart, and if we are selfless, the better seed should always be sown first. The lower kind of seed should be withdrawn. So, when a higher type of guru is available to any circle, the lower type of guru should not interfere.

 

 

 

I've heard some devotees say that this idea of a gradation of Guru's is bogus, they have criticized Sridhar Maharaja for stating the above.

 

This is from Srila Prabhupada:

 

 

"The first-class devotee does not at all see anyone who is not in the service of the Lord, but the second-class devotee makes distinctions between devotees and nondevotees. The second-class devotees are therefore meant for preaching work, they must loudly preach the glories of the Lord. The second-class devotee accepts disciples from the section of third-class devotees or nondevotees. Sometimes the first-class devotee also comes down to the category of the second-class devotee for preaching work."(A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami

Prabhupada. Srimad Bhagavatam 2:3:21 purport.)

 

This is a general principle. However, "A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as 'guru' and 'acharya' by strictly following the disciplic succession."(A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 26th April, 1968. New York)

 

 

And from Sri Guru and his grace from above

 

 

Whoever initiates the Name to another and makes him a disciple, taking their complete charge, must be very careful it is not given haphazardly. We can inform of the purity and holiness of the Holy Name to one and all, but to take charge of a particular person giving wholesale relief from the bondage of maya, that sort of responsibility can only be taken when one gets internal inspiration to do that, and it is a great risk. Anyone who has not properly come to this standard should not give Harinam to anybody.

 

 

So there you have it. If someone who is not on the highest level, directly getting instruction from Caitya Guru, then it is a risk for that person to take the responsibility of another person and act as the representative of God to them. The best thing for them to do is if they feel there is another higher level Guru, they should send the person to him. If there is no one, then it would be wise to admit your own level of connection to Krishna to any prospective disciple.

 

Jiva Goswami writes in Bhakti Sandarbha 237

 

 

 

From Sri Narada in the Seventh Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam

 

"One must conquer the modes of passion and ignorance by developing the mode of goodness, and then one must become detach from the mode of goodness by promoting oneself to the platform of suddha-sattva. all this can be automatically done if one engages in the service of the spiritual master with faith and devotion. In this way one can conquer the influence of the modes of nature."

 

In the Vamana-kalpa, Lord Brahma explains:

 

"One's mantra is identical with his spiritual master. One's spiritual master is identical with Lord Hari. When the spiritual master is pleased, then Lord Hari is pleased."

 

It is also said:

 

"When Lord Hari is angry, one's spiritual master can protect him. When one's spiritual master is angry, no one can give protection. Therefore with all efforts one should strive to please his spiritual master."

 

Therefore one should always serve his spiritual master. In another place in the scriptures, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself declares:

 

"First one should worship his spiritual master, and then afterward one should worship Me. One who does this attains perfection. One who does not finds that all his efforts are in vain."

 

In the Narada-pancaratra it is said:

 

"With body, mind and words, one should worship his Vaisnava spiritual master, who is like Lord Visnu, and who teaches the science of Lord Visnu. One who knows the true meaning of the scriptures is a Vaisnava."

 

"One who teaches the true meaning of the verses in the scriptures is always to be worshipped. What more need be said? He is a manifestation of Lord Visnu Himself."

 

In the Padma Purana, Devadyuti prays:

 

"For me devotion to my spiritual master it is more important than devotion to Lord Hari. If I am devoted to my spiritual master, then Lord Hari will personally reveal Himself to me."

 

In such a situation there is no need even to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead separate from the worship of one's spiritual master. This is explained in the Agama-sastra, where, in the course of describing the results of purascarana, it is said:

 

"As an alchemist's touch turns copper into gold, so the spiritual master's touch makes his disciple transcendental like Lord Visnu Himself."

 

This is also explained in Srimad Bhagavatam (10.80.34), where Lord Krsna declares:

 

"I, the Soul of all beings, cannot be satisfied as much by ritual worship, by generating progeny, by observing penances or by self-control, as I am by faithful service rendered to one's spiritual master."

 

Srila Sridhara Svami comments:

 

"This verse explains that no one is more to be worshipped than the spiritual master who gives transcendental knowledge. Therefore no duty is more important than the worship of him. In this verse the word "ijya" means "the ritual duties of a householder". "Prajatih" means "the second birth by accepting the sacred thread". That word describes the duties of a brahmacari. "Tapasa" describes the duties of a vanaprastha" and "upasamena" describes the duties of a sannyasi". "Aham" means "I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead". The Lord then declares:

 

"I, the Soul of all beings, cannot be satisfied by these things in the same way as I am by faithful service rendered to one's spiritual master."

 

 

So unless you are on the level of being able to give direct connection to Krishna as described above, then it would be dishonest and risky to allow a prospective disciple into thinking you are.

 

A second class Guru can initiate but he must make it clear to any prospective disciple that he is not on the same level as the first class Guru i.e in direct communication with Krishna.

 

 

[krsna]

 

by Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja

 

 

Mayapura: February 21, 1995 -

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.18.33 - 36

 

 

gunadhikam mudam lipsed

 

anukrosam gunadhamat

 

maitrim samanad anvicchen

 

na tapair abhibhuyate

 

 

Translation: Every man should act like this: when he meets a person more qualified than himself he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him. In this way one is never affected by the threefold miseries of this material world.

 

 

Purport by Srila Prabhupada: Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves, we become envious of him; when we find someone less qualified, we deride him; and when we find someone equal we become very proud of our activities. Theses are the causes of all material tribulations. The great sage Narada therefore advised that a devotee should act perfectly. Instead of being envious of a more qualified man, one should be jolly to receive him. Instead of being oppressive to a less qualified man, one should be compassionate toward him just to raise him to the proper standard. And when one meets an equal, instead of being proud of one's own activities before him, one should treat him as friend. One should also have compassion for the people in general, who are suffering due to forgetfulness of Krsna. These important functions will make one happy within this material world.

 

 

Lecture by Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja

 

 

These are the instructions of Narada Muni. Narada Muni is a mahajana, and this is mahajana-vakya, the words of a great personality. Mahajana yei kahe, se satya mani --- what a sadhu-mahajana says, that is truth, satya. Mahasano yena gatah sa pranthah --- the mahajana has shown us the path, and that is the path we have to tread. We have to follow the footprints of the mahajanas. There is no need of manufacturing some new path. Here Narada Muni instructs Dhruva Maharaja how to be happy here --- how one should behave and how he should deal with others so that he will never be affected by the threefold miseries of the material world. "When he meets a person more qualified than himself, he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him." These are the dealings of a Vaisnava, a devotee. One who is not a vaisnava, he behaves in the opposite way. As Srila Prabhupada has said in his purport: "Generally we find someone less qualified, we deride him; and when we find someone equal we become very proud of our activities. These are the causes of all material tribulations." Whatever is said here by Narada Muni describes the behavior of a Vaisnava, especially a madhyama-adhikari (second class) Vaisnava.

 

 

srimad-bhagvatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan sri caitany mahaprabhor matam idam tatradaro na parah (Caitanya matta manjusa)

 

 

Srimad-Bhagvatam is amala-pramana, the spotless proof, and prema-pum-artho mahan, prema bhakti is the highest truth. These are the opinions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

 

bhgavati je na mane se yavana sama

 

tara sasta ache janme hanme prabhu yama

 

(CB. Adi, 1.39)

 

 

On who does not accept Srimad-Bhagavatam is a mleccha and a yavana. He is to be punished by Yamaraj, not for one life, but janme janme -- life after life. So we should accept Srimad Bhagvatam, and all mahajana vakyas are there.

 

 

Madhyama-adhikari

 

These are the dealings of a madhyama-adhikari:

 

 

isvare tad-adhinesu

 

balisesu dvisatsu ca

 

prema-maitri-krpopeksa

 

yah karoti sa madhyamah

 

(Bhag. 11.2.46)

 

 

Isvare, one who has developed love for isvara, love for the Supreme Lord Krsna; tad-adhinesu, one who has developed friendship with those who are equal Vaisnavas; balisesu, one who becomes compassionate or merciful towards balisa, ignorant fools, murkha, and dvisatsu ca, one who ignores an offender is a madhyama-adhikari. A madhyama-adhikari behaves in this way.

 

 

In Harinama Cintamani also Bhaktivinoda Thakura Mahajana, a great acarya in our Gaudiya Vaisnava-parampara, has said like this:

 

 

krsne prema krsna bhakte maitri acarana

 

balisete krpa ara dvesi upeksana

 

karile madhyuama-bhakta suddha-bhakta hana

 

krsna-name adhikara karena arjana

 

 

Krsne prema krsna-bhakte maitri acarana, one who develops love for Krsna and makes friendship with krsna bhaktas; balisete krpa, one who becomes compassionate or merciful towards a balisa, a murkha, and ignorant fool; are dvesi upeksana, one who ignores an offender; someone who behaves like this is a madhyama-bhakta. Madhyama-bhakta suddha--bhakta hana, such a madhyama-bhakta becomes a suddha-bhakta, a pure devotee. Then what happens? Krsna-name adhikara karena arajana, then he gets adhikara (qualification) in chanting krsna-nama. This is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's instruction.

 

 

Kanistha-adhikari

 

In this connection we'll also speak about who is a kanishta-adhikari:

 

 

arcayam eva haraye

 

pujam yah sraddayehate

 

na tad-bhaktesu canyesu

 

sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah

 

(Bhag. 11.2.47)

 

 

A kanistha-adhikari is one who offers worship to the Deity form of Lord Hari, arca-vigraha, according to laukika-sraddha (ordinary faith), not sastriya-sraddha (faith based on sastra). It is a question of sraddha. Two types of sraddha are there, sastriya-sraddha and laukika sraddha. When we speak of sraddha we mean sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika sraddha. And, na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah, one who doesn't pay respect to hari bhakta, the devotee of Lord Hari, and isn't compassionate toward other living entities in whom Lord Hari is present, he is a kanistha-bhakta.

 

 

Uttama-adhikari

 

Then who is an uttama-adhikari?:

 

 

sarva-bhutesu yah pasyed

 

bhagavad-bhavam atmanah

 

bhutani bhagavaty atmany

 

esa bhagavatottamah

 

 

"The most advanced devotee sees within everything the soul of all souls, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. Consequently he sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord and understands that everything that exists is eternally situated within the Lord." (Bhag. 11.2.45) Also in Caitanya-caritamrta, Stavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti

 

Sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti (Madhya 8.274)

 

 

This is uttama-adhikari. He sees the moving and nonmoving entities, sthaivara-jangama, but he never sees their outward form. What does he see? He sees his ista, his most beloved Deity, Krsna, everywhere, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti. This is a completely Krsna conscious person. And who is completely Krsna conscious and what is complete Krsna consciousness? Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita:

 

 

yo man pasyati sarvatra

 

sarvan ca mayi pasyati

 

tasyaham na panasyami

 

sa ca me napanasyati

 

(Bg. 6.30)

 

 

"One who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, he is completely Krsna conscious, tasyaham na panasyami sa ca mena panasyati. I am never out of his sight and he is never out of my sight. He sees Me, I see him. This is complete krsna consciousness. That is an uttama-adhikari. Stavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti, he sees moving and nonmoving entities but never sees the outward form. Everywhere he sees his ista, his most beloved Deity, who is there in the heart, Lord Krsna. That is an uttama-adhikari.

 

 

Then there is bhagavata-uttama. Who is a bhagavata-uttama?

 

 

visrjati hrdayam na yasya saksad

 

dharir avasabhihito Œpy aghaugha-nasah

 

pranaya-rasanaya dhrtanghri-padmah

 

sa bhavati bhagavata-pradhana uktah

 

 

"One who chants the holy name of the Supreme Lord, Hari, even unconsciously is freed from all sins. When Lord Hari grants liberation from sin to one who even unconsciously or negligently chants His holy name, the position of one who never abandons the shelter of His lotus feet must be considered highly exalted. Such a devotee can never give up the association of the Lord, nor can the Lord give up his association of the Lord, nor can the Lord give up his association. Krsna Himself dwells eternally within his heart. Such a great soul is known as bhagavata-pradhana --- the most exalted devotee of the Lord."

 

(Bhag. 11.2.55)

 

 

By uttering the name of hari all sinful reactions are destroyed, and that Hari is bound up in the heart of a Vaisanva, pranaya-rasanaya, but the rope of love. In other words, Lord Hari never leaves the heart of such a Vaisnava, a bhagavata-uttama.

 

 

According to Faith

 

Also in Caitanya-caritamrta Kaviraja Gosvami has spoken of these three types of Vaisnavas.

 

 

Sraddhavan jana haya bhakti-adhikari

 

Œuttama', Œmadhyamna', Œkanistha'---sraddha anusari

 

(CC. Madhya 22.64)

 

 

According to one's sraddha, faith, one's eligibility for bhakti is classified as uttama, madhyama or kanistha.

 

 

sastra-yuktye sunipuna, drdha-sraddha yanra

 

Œuttama-adhikari' sei taraye samsara

 

(CC. Madhya 22.65)

 

 

One who is very expert in presenting sastric evidences and who has unflinching faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, unflinching faith in Krsna, drdha-sraddha, he is uttama-adhikari. Taraye samsara, he can deliver the whole world.

 

 

sastra yukti nahi jane drdha, sraddhavan

 

madhyama-adhikari sei maha-bhagyavan

 

(CC. Madhya 22.67)

 

 

Who is madhyama-adhikari? He doesn't know so much sastra-yukti, logical arguments on the basis of revealed scripture, but he is drdha sraddhavan, he has strong faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, strong faith in Krsna. Sadgati-padata krsne karaha visvasa, put complete faith, unflinching faith, in Krsna, who is adgati-padata. One who does so is madhyama-adhikari. Sei maha-bhagyavan, he is very fortunate.

 

 

Two Kinds of Faith

 

Yahara komala sraddha, se Œkanistha' jana

 

Krame krame tenho bhakta haibe Œuttama'

 

(CC. Madhya 22.69)

 

 

One who has not developed sastriya-sraddha (faith in sastra) but has developed only laukika-sraddha (faith in what common people say), he is kanistha-adhikari. Sastriya-sraddha is described in Caitanya-caritamrta:

 

 

Œsraddha'‹sabde---visvasa kahe sudrdhna niscaya krsne bhakti kaile sarva karma krta jaya (CC. Madhya 22.62)

 

 

Sraddha means visvas, faith, sudrdha, very strong faith, unflinching faith. Faith in what? Faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, faith in Krsna. This is faith. If someone develops krsna-bhakti, all his activities are finished, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. Nothing is left out if you have faith.

 

 

yahara koimala sraddha, se'kanistha'jana

 

krame krama tenho bhakta haive'uttama'

 

(CC Madhya 22.69)

 

 

Whose sraddha is soft, who has not developed sastriya-sraddha, only laukika-sraddha, he is kanistha jana, a neophyte. By associating with more elevated Vaisnavas, hearing from them and putting firm faith in their words, gradually he will make advancement and ultimately also become uttama.

 

 

What is sastriya-sraddha and what is laukika-sraddha? Sastriya sraddha means unflinching faith in the sastriya siddhantas, the teachings which are given especially as found in the Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the essence of all Vedas, Vedanta, and Upanishadas:

 

 

sarva-vedanta-saram hi

 

srimad-bhagavatam isyate

 

tad-rasamrta-trptasya

nanyatra syad ratih kvacit

 

(Bhag. 12.13.15)

 

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami has put emphasis on sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika-sraddha. One who is a neophyte devotee, a kanistha-adhikari, he has only faith in the words of materialistic people, materialistic scientists, philosophers, etc. He has not developed faith in the words of sadhus, Vaisnavas, mahajanas, those who are acaryas.

 

 

For example, people in this locality say, "Oh there is a ghost in that tree." Then someone comes and hears from them. He says, "Oh, the people say there is a ghost in that tree." If he comes to this area when the electricity is off and there is dense darkness, he may see something --- as if someone is standing there wearing white cloth. "Oh, yes! A ghost is there." Because he has heard it from these people. This is laukika-sraddha. But when the electricity comes, he sees, "Oh, what is this" Oh, it is only a dead tree". Because it looks white he thinks it is a ghost.

 

 

We should not develop laukika-sraddha. We should develop sastriya-sraddha. Unless you develop sastriya-sraddha, unless you deal with others as Narada Muni has instructed here, then you will be affected by the threefold miseries of this material world. You will never be happy

 

 

Vaisnava aparadha

 

So who are offenders? Skanda Purana states that there are six types of offenders and they all fall down and go to raurava, naraka (hell).

 

 

nindam kurvanti ye mudha

 

vaisnavanam mahatmanam

 

patanti pitrbhih sardham

 

maharaurava-samjnite

 

 

hanti nindati vai dvesthi

 

vaisnavan-nabhi-nandati

 

krudhyate yati na harsam

 

krudhyate yati na harsam

 

darsane patanani sat

 

 

Skanda Purana says, nindam kurvanti ye mudha vaisnavanam mahatmanam --- those who blaspheme a mahatma Vaisnava, they are great offenders. Patanti pitrbhih sardham maharaurava-samhnite - they definitely go to maha-raurava, naraka. Not only them, but pitrbhih (all his ancestors also). The six types of offenders are: those who try to kill a Vaisnava; those who blaspheme a Vaisnava; those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not pay pranama, obeisances, those who become angry with a Vaisnava; those who develop enmity with a Vaisnava; and those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not become jolly, but instead curve their faces, "Oh who is he!" They are offenders. Here Prabhupada says, "Instead of being envious of a more qualified man, one should be jolly to receive him." Instead of becoming jolly, such a person becomes envious and covers his face. He is an offender. These six types of offenders fall down to maha-raurava, naraka.

 

 

See Krsna Everywhere

 

Srila Prabhupada formed this society for Krsna consciousness. It is a society of Vaisnavas. Why did he form the society? Because those who will become members of this society should develop complete Krsna consciousness. That opportunity is given here.

 

 

yo mam pasyati sarvatra

 

sarvam camayi pasyati

 

tasyaham na pranasyami

 

sa ca me na panasyati

 

(Bg. 6.30)

 

 

This Bhagavad-gita verse describes complete Krsna consciousness. Krsna says that one who sees Him everywhere, stharva-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti, he sees the different moving and nonmoving entities, but he never sees their outward form. He sees his ista, his move beloved Diety, Krsna everywhere. Who is such a person?

 

 

bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare

 

jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare

 

(Cc. Madhya 25.127)

 

 

That devotee who as bound Me up in his heart with the rope of love, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare such a bhakta, wherever he looks he sees Me. Such a premi-bhakta, who has bound up Krsna with the rope of love in his heart, he can see Krsna everywhere. Otherwise no one can see Krsna everywhere.

 

 

Krsna also says:

 

 

naham prakasah sasrvasya

 

yoga-maya-samavrtah

 

mudho'yam nabhijanati

 

loko mam ajam avyayam

 

(Bg. 7.25)

 

 

These are the words of Krsna. "I am never manifest before everyone, I am never manifest everywhere. I am covered by My yoga-maya potency. Mudho Œyam nabhijanati. Krsna says they are mudhas, rascals, "They cannot see Me. They cannot understand Me." In other words, Krsna keeps Himself hidden. But if Krsna keeps Himself hidden, how can we see Him? Who can see Him? Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare, jahannetra pade tahan dekhaye amare. Only such a premi-bhakta can see Him, one who has developed krsna-prema, who has bound up Krsna in his heart with the rope of love. This bondage is very, very strong. Even Krsna, who is almighty, cannot break it. He says na paraye na paraye na paraye, I cannot, I cannot, I cannot. Such bondage is so strong. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden before the eyes of such a premi-bhakta. A premi-bhakta sees Him everywhere, though Krsna keeps Himself hidden.

 

 

Society Without Envy

 

This is the society for Krsna consciousness formed by Srila Prabhupada. One who becomes a member of this society gets the opportunity to develop complete Krsna consciousness, to see Krsna everywhere.

 

 

yo mam pasyati sarvatra

 

sarvam ca mayi pasyati

 

tasyaham na panansyami

 

sa ca me na panasyati

(Bg. 6.30)

 

 

This is the goal. Prabhupada has written in his books, "The Krsna consciousness movement aims at creating an atmosphere of non-envy. Of course, it is not possible for everyone to become Krsna conscious, but the Krsna consciousness movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy." Where is the question of enviousness? One who is envious is not a Krsna conscious person. In other words, he is not a Vaisnava. A real Vaisnava sadhu is not at all envious. He sees every jiva as Krsna's jiva. Krsna is the object of his love, so how will he be envious?

 

 

Enviousness means lust. What does that mean? Pride is your enemy, crookedness (kapata). If someone is making advancement on the spiritual path, others become envious of him. They cannot tolerate it. "Oh, he is making such advancement." They start to speak all nasty things about him. Combining together, they start pulling down on him and attacking him. This is enviousness. In a society of Vaisnavas that should not be done. A Vaisnava is not envious at all, atra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vedyam. Who understands bhagavata-dharma-tattva? Only a Vaisnava, who is non-envious can understand. Others will speculate, "Oh, this is that, this is that." Only speculation will go on because they cannot understand. They are not Vaisnavas, they are all envious persons. Prabhupada says, "One who is envious of the success of a Vaisnava is certainly not a Vaisnava himself but an ordinary mundane man." He may be pretending to be a Vaisnava, but actually he is only an ordinary mundane man.

 

 

If the purpose of forming his society fails, how will Sria Prabhupada be happy ? This is a most important factor. So here it is said, "Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves, we become envious of him." This is the general nature of people who are avaisnavas; who are not Vaisnavas, they become envious when they see a person more qualified than themselves. But a Vaisnava, who is completely Krsna conscious, he'll never become envious. "Instead of being envious of a more qualified man one should be jolly to receive him." Krsne prema krsna-bhakte maitri acarana -- he who develops krsna-prema, he develops friendship with Vaisnavas, krsna-bhaktas. And when he sees a more qualified Vaisnava than himself he becomes jolly. That is a real Vaisnava, a pure Vaisnava. This is the purpose for which Srila Prabhupada formed this society for Krsna consciousness.

 

 

Compassion

 

Therefore Prabhupada says, “The Krsna consciousness movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy at all." Prabhupada says in the concluding lines of his purport, "One should also have compassion for the people in general who are suffering due to forgetfullness of Krsna.” Who becomes compassionate for the people in general? One who is a completely Krsna conscious person, who sees Krsna everywhere; only he can become compassionate. Otherwise, how can one have compassion? The jiva is suffering. He is Krsna's jiva, so why is he suffering? It's because of his forgetfulness of Krsna. One who sees Krsna and who sess the jiva's relationsip with Krsna, he becomes compassionate. Otherwise, there is no question of compassion. This is most important. Only such a Vaisnava who sees Krsna everywhere is a completely Krsna conscious person. He becomes compassionate.

 

 

Prahlada Maharaja, a pure devotee, saw his most beloved Lord in a stone pillar. "Yes, the lord is everywhere." However when his very powerful demoniac father Hiranyakasipu, who had conquered the three worlds, heard his son Prahlada Maharaja speak like this, he became angry, "Why you say He's everywhere. Is He there in this stone pillar?" Who sees? A completely Krsna conscious person, a premi-bhakta, always sees. Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdanya-bhitare, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare; wherever he looks he sees Krsna. Krsna gives him darsana. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden from the vision of such a completely Krsna conscious person, a premi-bhakta, always sees. Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare; wherever he looks he sees Krsna. Krsna gives him darsana. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden form the vision of such a completely Krsna conscious person, premi-bhakta. The premi-bhakta says, "Yes, He's there." But his demoniac father, who had conquered over the three worlds, could not see.

 

 

It is a question of vision. One who sees Krsna everywhere, one who sees krsna-sambandha; the relationship with Krsna, that the jiva is suffering because of a lack of Krsna consciousness, he will think , "Let me go and inculcate Krsna consciousness into others." That is the real beneficial work. Therefore, if one develops Krsna consciousness, understands his position, and establishes his relationship with Krsna, there will be no suffering at all. Such a Vaisnava who sees Krsna and krsna-sambandha everywhere, his heart bleeds seeing the suffering of the jivas here. He cannot sit tightly. He will go out and preach the science of Krsna consciousness. "Yes, let everyone be Krsna conscious, let everyone be happy."

 

 

Prabhupada's Purpose

 

Therefore, in this verse Narada Muni sayus, "Every man should act like this." So there will be no miseries at all. This world will be turned into a vaikuntha jagat, "When he meets a person more qualified than himself he should be very pleased." There should be no enviousness. This enviousness is one of your enemies. Kama, kridha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya; in Sanskrit it is matsarya. Enviousness is one of your six enemies.

 

 

The second verse of Bhagavatam says, darmah projhita-kaitavo Œtra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vedyam. Who can understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva; what is said in Srimad-Bhagavatam? Paramo nirmatsaranam stam bedyam. Satam means devotee, Vaisnavas. Paramo nirmatsaranam; those who are not envious at all. Only they can understand Srimad-Bhagavatam. Only they can understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva. Otherwise the Bhagavata will never appear, never manifest at all. This is a most important thing and this is the purpose for which Srila Prabhupada formed the Society for Krsna Consciousness. The Krsna consciousness movement aims at creating an atmosphere of non-envy. "Of course it is not possible for everyone to become Krsna conscious, but the Krsna movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy." This is the purpose of Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON, International Society for Krsna Conscoiusness; that all should be pure Vaisnavas, Vaisnava in the true sense. A Vaisnava is not envious. He's nirmatsara, not envious at all. That is Vaisnava. Here Prabhupada says, "Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves we become envious of him." All mahajanas have said. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said. Sastra says. Narada Muni, a mahajana, here he says.

 

 

 

 

Wicked Person

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura Mahajana, who is considered the Seventh Goswami, a great acarya in our Gaudiya-Vaisnava-parampara has said (Sarangati 4):

 

 

parere udvegadiyachi je kata

 

diyachi jivere klesa

 

 

I am such a rascal, such an envious person. I always give pain to others and put them in anxiety.

 

 

nija sukha lagi'pape nahi dori

 

daya-hina svartha-para

 

 

I am very selfish for my own name, fame, adoration and prestige‹for my own happiness.

 

 

I am not afraid of committing any sinful activity. Daya-hita, I am a merciless preson a greatly selfish person.

 

 

Para sudhe dukhisada mithya-bhasi

 

Para-dukha sukha-kara

 

 

When I see someone is becoming more advanced it is very painful to me, so I become envious. Sada-mithya, I only speak lies. Para-dukha sukha-kara, when I see someone is suffering I become jolly, "Yes, very good, very good!"

 

 

asesa kamanahrdi majhe mora

 

krodhi dambha-parayana

 

 

So many material desires are there in my heart. I gen angry in flimsy cases. Dambha-parayana. I am proud, puffed up fellow, "I am great! Is there anyone greater than I?" Especially in Kali yuga, the most degraded age, this pride is the measuring rod. Everyone thinks, "I am great" Then another says, "What? You are great? I am great!" Then fighting , quarrelling begins. This is Kali yuga. This dambha, pride, is the measuring rod. Two persons quarrel. Two groups quarrel. Two neighbors quarrel and fight. Two states, two nations, "I am great! Hey! What are you? You are great? I am great!!" Then fighting. This is dambha (pride).

 

 

mada-matta sadavisaye mohita

 

himsa-garva vibhusana

 

 

I am always puffed-up and proud, intoxicated with the desire for material enjoyment. I am a great materialistic person, and hims-garva, always envious and proud. These are my ornaments, vibhusana.

 

 

nidralasya hata sukarye virata

 

akarye udyogi ami

 

pratistha lagiyasathya-arcana

 

lobha-hata sada kami

 

 

Such a person is a lazy fellow. He sleeps too much and never does any good work. He is always very enthusiastic to do evil, nasty, abominable activities for his own prestige, name fame and adoration. Sathya-arcana, he acts in a very duplicitous, crooked way. Lobha-hata sada kami, so much lust is in his heart.

 

 

e heno durjanasajana-varjita

 

aparadhi nirantara

 

 

This is durjana, not sajjana. Such a person is rejected by sajjanas. He is always an aparadhi, a great offender, so his dealings are very crooked, duplicitous dealings. As it is said in the verse, "When one finds someone more qualified than himself he becomes envious of him. When one finds someone less qualified he derides him. When one finds someone equal with him he becomes proud of his activities. These are the causes of all material tribulations. "Such a person is a durjana, a most wicked person. He is not a sajjana. He's an aparadhi, always a great offender.

 

 

subha-karya-sunyasada-anartha-mana

 

nana dukhe jara-jara

 

 

He never does anything auspicious. He's covered up, surrounded with so many anarthas. He's nana dukhe jara-jara, always afflicted, by the threefold miseries of this material world. He will never be happy at all.

 

 

This is the statement of Narada Muni, "Every man should act like this: when he meets a person more qualified than himself, he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him." Otherwise he'll suffer. "In this way one is never affected by the threefold miseries of this world." This is the statement of sadhu-sastra-mahajanas.

 

 

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

 

Devotee: I appreciate very much that you explained to us how Srila Prabhupada's purpose is to create a society without envy.

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: That I quoted from Prabhupada's purports from Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

 

Devotee: We see that amongst devotees that are most advanced, the principle is trnad api sunincena taror api sahisnuna. It's not an artificial thing to actually believe…

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Not artificial, baba! How many days can you act like this? Before your svarupa (real form) will be revealed! How many days can it go on artificially. But with a Vaisnava it's quite natural.

 

 

Devotee: My question is, Srila Prabhupada has said that even if one does not have the practical vision that Krsna is behind everything, is in everything, and is connected to everything, still, if one understands this theoretically he is a devotee that is rightly situated.

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Rightly situated? One who sees theoretically is rightly situated?

 

 

Real Compassion?

 

Devotee: But if one has theoretical understanding that he has gotten form the words of the spiritula master, then one is rightly situated. So in your class you said that only the topmost devotee can be compassionate.

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, only one who sees Krsna.

 

 

Devotee: So my question is, does that mean no one else can be compassionate?

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: One may be compassionate to fulfill his own selfish desire. One may be compassionate to some and not compassionate to others. He has raga and dvesa, liking and disliking. He is not equal to one and all. He cannot be. Unless one sees Krsna how can he be compassionate? He will see, this is Krsna's jiva suffering. His heart bleeds. He cannot sit tight. He will go out and preach Krsna consciousness. And who preaches? Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara; one who has life? What is life? Jivanam sarva-bhutesu. Krsna says, "I am jivan, I am the life in all living entities." One who sees Krsna everywhere. Who sees Krsna's jiva suffering because of forgetfulness of Krsna, because of a lack of Krsna conscoiusness; he has prana, life. He goes out and preaches. He is completely surrendered to Krsna. Therefore Krsna came as Mahaprabhu, as a bhakta (a devotee), to teach devotion, to teach how to surrender unto Krsna (sikhaya sarangati bhakater prana). Saranagati is the life of the devotee who is completely surrendered. Krsna tare kore atmasara (then Krsna accepts him). Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara (he has got life, therefore he goes out and preaches). Otherwise, who can preach? How can one preach unless one sees Krsna, sees Krsna's jiva suffering? He does not want anyone to suffer. Everyone should be Krsna conscious. Therefore, here Narada Muni says that everyone should act like this. This is the purpose of Srila Prabhupada forming the society for Krsna consciousness.

 

 

Uttama Acting as Madhyama

 

Devotee: Maharaja, a madhyama-adhikari has strong faith in the process of Krsna consciousness but he doesn't have a very good knowledge of the scriptures. How can he preach if he doesn't have good knowledge of the scriptures?

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: He should have it by associating with an uttama adhikari. He should get it. Maha-bhagyavan, he's very fortunate [the madhyama-adhikari] because he has strong faith. This is most important. Adau sraddha, the first thing is your faith. He has strong faith in the words of sadhu-sastra-guru. He has strong fiath in Krsna. He puts faith in Krsna, in the words of Krsna. And sadhus, those who are mahajanas, they speak what Krsna has said.

 

 

Devotee: If an uttama-adhikari wants to preach, generally he comes down to the level of madhyama and acts like a madhyama.

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Otherwise he cannot preach, because an uttama-adhikari sees moving and nonmoving living entities, but he never sees the outward form. He always sees Krsna.

 

 

sthavara-jangama dekhe,na dekhe tara murti

 

sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti

 

(Madhya 8.274)

 

 

He sees only Krsna. He says, "Oh, this living entity is Krsna's devotee, he is engaged in Krsna's service." He never sees the outward form. His vision is completely different. Therefore he steps down to madhyama, otherwise how can he speak? How can he see that the jiva is suffering from a lack of Krsna consciousness, from forgetfulness of Krsna? Therefore, one who preaches, he steps down to madhyama-adhikari; but he's uttama-adhikari, otherwise he cannot preach. Those who are uttama-bhagavata, cannot preach. Therefore, one who preaches steps down to the madhyama-adhikari stage. But he is not a madhyama as described here, sastra-yukti nahi jane; who doesn't know sastra. The uttama-adhikari knows sastra. Such an uttama-adhikari who acts as a madhyama-adhikari is not like the general type of madhyama-adhikari, madhyama-bhakta. This madhyuama-adhikari, he is uttama-adhikari, but he has stepped own. He knows sastra and he is very expert in presenting and quoting sastric evidences, because, tasmac chastram pramanam te karyakarya-vyavasthitau (Bg. 16.24). This is sastra-pramana. What is to be done, karya, and what is not to be done, akarya; how can we decide? Unless he presents sastra-pramana, how can he decide what is to be done and what is not to be done? He is not a general ordinary madhyama-adhikari.

 

 

Preaching

 

Devotee: One who has laukika-sraddha has to act under the guidance of one who has sastriy-sraddha?

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, he should have a guru, a bonafide Vaisnava guru. He should do bhajana under such expert guidance. He should not act whimsically. Unless you have guru, how can you preach? Sravana kirtana, preaching means kirtana. Unless one has heard from a bona fide guru, what will he preach? What he has heard, he will say that thing. "I have heard this from authorities, from my guru." Preaching is another name for sravana, another name for hearing. What I've heard I'm repeating. Therefore, only one who has heard, he can preach and do kirtana. Otherwise who can do kirtana? One who has not heard, what will he say, and who will hear all those nasty things?

 

 

Devotee: Many disciples of Srila Prabhupada were preaching under the orders of Srila Prabhupada and, seeing the miseries of the people, were spreading Srila Prabhupada's teachings. Now many have stopped preaching.

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: One who has life and sees Krsna can never stop preaching. He sees, "Krsna's jiva is suffering." He will preach in spite of all obstacles. When Bhaktivinoda Thakura became very old he had to lift up his eyelids to see. But even at that age he would say "I want to ride on a horse and go out and preach." One whose heart bleeds, who has compassion, he says such a thing. It is a question of compassion. Are you preaching out of compassion? One who is not preaching out of compassion, he may preach for some days, but then he stops. "I lost all my enthusiasm.Oh, why did you lose it? You lost Krsna?"

 

 

Devotee: There are some that are still trying to preach, can we say they are actually keeping the orders of Srila Prabhupada?

 

 

Throw the Vedas

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Prabhupada said to keep Krsna. He came to give you Krsna. Following the siddhanta, he said, "Let them somehow be attracted to Krsna." That was his aim. He went to the land of mlecchas and yavanas, the Western countries, and gave Krsna to them. How can they understand? They cannot understand all this sastra now.

 

 

Why did Buddha Deva, who was an incarnation of Lord Visnu say, "Throw out the Vedas." How can Visnu, who is the source of the Vedas, say like that? He is so compassionate. What were they doing? They were killing animals, sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam. His heart became so compassionate, seeing this killing "Hey! Stop this killing!" They replied, "Oh, it is described in the Vedas. Why you are stopping?" So Buddha Deva said, "Throw out the Vedas." Why does he speak like that? Because unless they stop killing they cannot come ot the stage of sattva; goodness. They are in the modes of ignorance and passion. They cannot understand the Vedas. So he did like that. This is not siddhanta. Then all the Buddhists said, "Oh Buddha Deva said we can throw out the Vedas." The result was that they became nastika, atheists. But the Vedas can not be lost. The Vedas are apauruseya they come from the Lord, so they should be established. Therefore the Supreme Lord Narayana gave the order of the very powerful Lord Siva, "You go, Mahadeva. You go and establish the Vedas, but keep Me hidden." Then what did Siva establish? The gauna portion of the Vedas, the secondary portion (karma-kanda jnana-kanda). Sankaracarya came to do this. He thought. “This is the order of my master. I am the order carrier.”

 

 

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