Will a new Pope lead the faithful closer to accepting Krsna Consciousness ???

[krsna]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399189.stm

 

 

last days

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4402323.stm

 

 

 

Will the succesor reform the Catholic church so that catholics can see other religions as co-operators rather than competators in the journey to love of God? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[theist]

a major contribution of this Pope. Remember that picture someone posted of him receiving tilak?

[Kulapavana]

"Will the succesor reform the Catholic church so that catholics can see other religions as co-operators rather than competators in the journey to love of God?"

 

some people think, that the new Pope will be a stooge to the power brokers of this world. supposedly the current Pope knows that, and that is his real reason for holding on to his post despite poor health. The Church has been used by the power elites since Roman times (emperor Constantine).

 

I bet Shivaji Prabhu knows what I'm talking about.

 

 

[Guest guest]

with this pope lies the last of the real faith. Many prophecies, mostly St Malachi, confirm that the next pope will be a factor in disbanding the catholics, watering the faith down so all will join. Then, the anti-popes will take over, purely political and financial.

 

JP2 had great wisdom, and stuck with the values despite the great opposition even from his own, especially the amerikan cardinals who favor things like abortion rights. I actually really liked this person, saw him as a great spiritual guide. We in america cannot see it very clearly, but when the Pope traveled to places like mexico or Peru, such outpouring.

 

Unfortunately, popes are eccliastic leaders, figureheads for much more diabolical activities performed in covert world. But John XXIII and JPII were great exceptions, and both understood that God chooses his own way to appear to the individual.

 

The next one will be like Pius XII, probably aligned with some neofascist religiosity, and many will welcome his successor, who will destroy all vestiges that re4main of Catholicism.

 

Where is the Pearl described in Kebra Nagast? Afarian, like the scholar Graham Hancock affirms in his great study, The Sign and the Seal, or maybe in the hands of the theoretical physicists, who are turning to theism as fast as the religionist degrades the concept of the Personality of Godhead?

 

Gnosticism, Essenes, the Kathars, maybe these more valid christian theologies will be brought back to life. My christianity is more linked to rastafarianism than any churchianity group. In fact, there are many who cant even be criticized for excessive herb use, like Ras Michael, et al.

 

My family, matriarched by a great Lefebvrist catholic who kept the latin, abstainance from meat, etc, is attracted to the branch that goes for the charisma. This is bogus and smacks of kirtanananda worship.

 

Just ramblin, he was a good pope, there will be no more like him.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

k

 

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Guest guest]

Put your hopes, wishes and visions of the divine dispensation of Hari Nam sankirtan into the ether of consciousness and everything is possible, by the grace of Gauranga there is no limit to anything.

If He wants to see the Pope dancing and chanting He will pull the strings.

[Guest guest]

he is already close to Krsna, even if he may not recognize God as Krsna.

[Guest guest]

who was the person giving him tilak and when was that picture taken. Was it actually tilak?

[Guest guest]

Probably kum kum or aguru, but some caritrtam from deities perhaps, shows tolerance. He was an open but firm man.

[krsna]

 

By Robin Pomeroy

 

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - For many of the cardinals gathering in Rome to bury Pope John Paul and elect his successor, the job description is clear -- they want someone a lot like the last one.

 

"Perhaps the best way to sum it up: we need another John Paul," said Cardinal Wilfrid Napier of South Africa. "A people's Pope, one who's especially got an appeal and a challenge for the youth."

 

As hundreds of thousands of Catholics queued for hours to spend a few seconds filing past the body of John Paul in St. Peter's basilica, many of the cardinals meeting nearby said the new pope must be able to command similar respect and love.

 

"I feel that Pope John Paul was accepted by everyone, inside and outside the church community, and I think he was the Pope figure that could fulfil the hopes of everyone," said Cardinal Julius Darmaatmadja of Indonesia.

 

Such views are perhaps not surprising given that all but two of the 117 cardinals eligible to choose the new pope owe their present positions to John Paul.

 

African cardinals, especially, said they wanted the successor to continue the strict doctrinal line of John Paul who never wavered in his traditional opposition to women priests, contraception and homosexuality.

 

"The church needs a leader who'll be as true to its teachings as possible, even if it's the minority view," said Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana.

 

"The church doesn't survive by itself. It's God, it's Jesus who saves us. So it's His will which we recognize. And that can be a minority view and be rejected and be opposed.

 

"I don't know who I'll be voting for, but it's possible for an African Pope to be chosen," he added.

 

BLACK POPE "UNLIKELY"

 

South Africa's Napier also said he wanted a Pope with the vision of John Paul and, if possible, from the developing world, home to two thirds of the world's 1.1 billion Catholics.

 

"It would be great, of course, if it were somebody from the vibrant South where the faith is lived with a great deal of enthusiasm and not simply as a custom that one feels one has to carry on."

 

But the Ivory Coast's Cardinal Bernard Agre said the possibility of a black Pope was very small.

 

"Psychologically and spiritually the West isn't ready to welcome a black Pope. There is no exclusion to speak of but it is people's mentality. It will take time for people to get used to that," he said.

 

A date for the secretive conclave election has not yet been set and few cardinals have named their favorite candidates.

 

But Poland's Zenon Grocholewski raised some eyebrows when he said possible frontrunner Joseph Ratzinger of Germany was a "strong personality" but, at 77, may be seen as too old.

 

Cardinal Francis George of Chicago took the bold step of listing two cardinals he saw as strong candidates.

 

Dionigi Tettamanzi of Milan has shown he can defend Church beliefs in the face of modern science, he told the Chicago Tribune, and Nigeria's Francis Arinze had strong qualities in interfaith relations and spreading the gospel.

 

He said if they want the new pope to focus on the plight of the poor, cardinals should look to candidates from Latin America and the Philippines.

 

[krsna]

Montreal

3rd August, 1968

 

 

His Holiness The Pope, Paul Vl

Vicar of Jesus Christ

State of Vatican City

Rome, Italy

 

 

Your Holiness:

 

 

Please accept my respectful humble obeisances at Your lotus feet. I beg to introduce myself as an Indian monk, following the Vedic principles of religious life, and at the present, I am in the renounced order of Sannyas (aged 72 years) and preaching God consciousness all over the world. I came to America in 1965, and since then I have many followers belonging to both Christian and Jewish faiths. And I have established 8 centers of Krishna consciousness temples in the USA and Canada. In the month of September, 1968, I am scheduled to go to London on this mission, and maybe I can visit other cities of European countries.

 

 

My mission is in the line of Lord Chaitanya, Who is personified Love of Godhead, and Who advented Himself 482 years ago in India, and preached God consciousness all over the country. His mission is to revive God consciousness all over the world, on the basis of Srimad Bhagavatam (Science of God). The principle of Srimad Bhagavatam is that any religious faith which helps a man to develop Love of God, without any motive, and without being hampered by any material condition, is transcendental religion. And the best process or the easist process, in this age especially, is to chant the Holy name of God. From this definition of religion as we find in the Srimad Bhagavatam, the criterion test of religion is how it helps people to develop his dormant Love of God, which is not materially invoked, but it is aroused from within by bona fide association of devotees and hearing about God.

 

 

The human form of life is especially meant for this purpose, namely, to invoke the dormant Love of God, because better development of consciousness is found in the human body. Animal propensities for sense gratification is equally found both in man and animals. But the special significance of human life is to achieve Love of God as the prime perfection of life. Unfortunately, at the present moment people are more concerned about the principle of sense gratification, or the animal part of human life, and they are gradually declining in God consciousness. This tendency is very much deteriorating, and because Your Holiness is the Head of a great religious sect, I think we should meet together and chalk out a program for cooperation.

 

 

The human society cannot anymore be allowed to continue a Godless civilization at the risk of decreasing truthfulness, hygenic principles, forgiveness, and mercifulness. Because on account of predominance of these principles at the present moment, duration of life, strength, and memory of the human being is decreasing.

 

The human society is gradually degrading in the matter of religiosity, and justice; and "might is right" is gradually taking the place of morality and justice. There is practically no more family life, and the union of man and woman is gradually degrading to the standard of sexuality. I understand it from reliable sources that people are trying to get your Holiness' sanction for contraceptive method, which is certainly against any religion of the world. In the Hindu religion, such contraceptive method or abortion is considered equivalent to murder.

 

 

Therefore, in the matter of sex, the human society is gradually degrading even less than decent animals. As a result of unrestricted sense gratification, even in ordinary dealing, a man cannot trust another man, because the cheating propensity of a man has increased beyond imagination. Attraction of young boys for young girls is no more as a matter of love, but such attraction is only on the basis of sexual potency. As soon as there is slackening of sex life, there is immediately the divorce petition.

 

 

In India, which was one day the land of religion and Brahminical culture, things have deteriorated to such an extent that a man in a higher caste is recognized simply by putting a piece of thread on the body as a sign of sanctity. The so-called Swamis are cheating the public because the public also want to be cheated by cheap method of self-realization. They are practicing so-called yoga performances for the matter of reducing fat, and keeping the body fit for sense gratification. If somebody has no sufficient money, it is very hard for him to get justice from the court. And if anyone can simply bluff by so-called advancement of knowledge, he is offered the doctorate degree. If a man is poor, he is at once accepted as non-civilized. If a man is falsely proud, he is accepted as civilized. By frustration, people are gradually becoming communists and hippies, and the guardians of the society must now take up the situation very seriously, without further delay.

 

 

The Krishna Consciousness movement is meant for overhauling the whole situation. We are creating men of character, and we are training our disciples to become Lovers of God, or Krishna. From the very beginning, they are trained to refrain from the following four principles of degradation: 1) Sex life outside of marriage, 2) Meat eating, or eating of any animal food, 3.) All forms of intoxication, 4) Gambling and idle sports. The teachings are based on authorized movement of Lord Chaitanya, on the principles of Bhagavad Gita, as the beginning, and Srimad Bhagavatam as the graduation.

 

 

I do not wish to prolong the body of this letter further, but if you think that a meeting with You will be beneficial for the human society at large, I shall be very much pleased if Your Holiness will grant me an interview. Thanking you in anticipation for an early reply.

 

 

Yours in the service of the Lord,

ACB

[krsna]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4416419.stm

[krsna]

AD EXTREMAS

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON

SEMINARIES FOR NATIVE CLERGY

 

 

Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, on the 24th day of June, in the year 1893, the sixteenth year of Our pontificate.

 

LEO XIII:

 

To Our Venerable Brothers, the Patriarchs, Archbishops and

Bishops and other Ordinaries in Peace and Communion with the Holy See.

 

Venerable Brothers, Health and Apostolic Benediction.

 

The Orient, courageously and successfully explored by the Portugese, is coveted by many today for its lucrative trade. We, however, have a more noble purpose in mind. We reflect upon those immense regions of the Indies where for many centuries men of the Gospel have expended their labor. Our thoughts turn first of all to the blessed Apostle Thomas who is rightly called the founder of preaching the Gospel to the Hindus. Then, there is Francis Xavier, who long afterwards dedicated himself zealously to the same praiseworthy calling. Through his extraordinary perseverence, he converted hundreds of thousands of Hindus from the myths and vile superstitions of the Brahmans to the true religion. In the footsteps of this holy man followed numerous priests, secular and religious, who with the authority and permission of the Holy See strove untiringly to preserve and promote the Christian mysteries and institutions introduced by Thomas and renewed by Xavier. To this day, they are continuing these noble efforts; nevertheless, in the vast reaches of the earth, many are still deprived of the truth, miserably imprisoned in the darkness of superstition! How very great a field, especially in the north, lies yet uncultivated to receive the seed of the Gospel!

 

2. Pondering these needs, We place our trust in Our Savior who alone knows the exact circumstance and time to bestow his light; he is wont to direct the mind and hearts of men by divine inspiration. But, assuredly, We ought to exert every possible effort to convert such a great part of the world. We have been searching for possible ways of better organizing and expanding Christianity in the East Indies, we have decided upon certain measures to help achieve Our goal.

 

New Dioceses

 

3. First of all, to be sure, with respect to the patronato of the Portuguese people in the East Indies, We have concluded a formal pact with the most faithful king of Portugal and Algerve. This agreement has removed the causes of dissensions, which had disrupted Christians for so long a time. These communities have been under obedience to apostolic vicars and prefects. We have decided to form them into dioceses with their own bishops to be administered by ordinary right. Therefore, by the apostolic letter, Humanae salutis, given on the first of September, 1886, a new hierarchy has been instituted in those regions, consisting of eight church provinces, namely, Goa as the patriarchal see, Agra, Bombay, Verapoly, Calcutta, Madras, Pondichery and Colombo. Furthermore, through the Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, We will do whatever will be fruitful there for salvation and for the increase of faith and piety.

 

Native Clergy

 

4. The preservation of the Christian faith among the Hindus will be precarious and its propagation uncertain as long as there is not a native clergy properly trained for priestly duties, not only to be of assistance to foreign priests, but also to be in rightful charge of the administration of the Christian Church in their cities. Tradition tells us that Frances Xavier maintained this same opinion. They say that he used to assert that the Christian cause in India could never have firm roots without the continuing dedication of a pious and zealous clergy native to India. It is clearly evident that he had a keen understanding of the issue. Certainly the work of the missionaries coming from Europe is beset with many obstacles. Most especially, indeed, is their unfamiliarity with the vernacular, which is very difficult to learn. There is also the remoteness of institutions and customs which remain unfamiliar even after a long period of time. Hence, the European clergy is forced to live there as in a strange land. Since a foreign clergy, therefore, has difficulty in winning the hearts of the people, it is plain that the work of a native clergy would be far more fruitful. From experience, they know the nature and customs of their people; they know when to speak and when to keep silent. In fine, they live among Hindus as Hindus without causing any suspicion and it is, indeed, difficult to say how important this is especially in times of crisis.

 

5. Then, again, it is necessary to realize that the number of missionaries abroad is far from adequate to serve the existing Christian communities. This deficiency is plainly evident from the mission statistics. The missionaries in India keep on imploring the Sacred Congregation for more preachers of the Gospel. Now, if there are not enough foreign priests to care for souls, what will happen in the future when the number of Christians will have multiplied? Nor, indeed, is there any reason to hope that the number of missionaries will increase proportionately. Consequently, if we want to be concerned for the salvation of India and the establishment of Christianity in that immense region on a firm foundation, we will have to select candidates from the native people, who after careful training will assume priestly functions and duties.

 

6. Thirdly, we must not overlook an eventuality, even though at the present time it is improbable. Such critical conditions could arise in Europe or Asia that would compel foreign priests to leave the Indies. In that event, how could religion survive without a native clergy: with no one to administer the sacraments, no one to teach the law of God? The history of the Chinese, Japanese, and Ethiopians speaks clearly enough about this hazard. More than once, the Christians in Japan and China had to suffer from hatred and calamity. The hostile people in power exiled and executed alien priests, but spared the native. Because they were completely familiar with the language and customs of their native land and were sustained by friends and relatives, they were allowed not only to remain unharmed in their country, but also to administer the sacraments freely, and perform pastoral duties in all the provinces. On the contrary, the Ethiopia, where Christians already numbered 200,000, a sudden storm of persecution completely destroyed the fruits of long labor because there was no native clergy when the European missionaries were killed or expelled.

 

7. Finally, there must be respect for antiquity; whatever we see advantageously established in times past must be religiously preserved. Now, it was the practice of the Apostles first to instruct the multitude in Christian precepts, then to select several from the people and initiate them into the sacred mysteries and even elevate them to the episcopacy. This example was followed afterwards by the Roman pontiffs. Their custom has always been to direct missionaries to exert every means to select a native clergy wherever the Christian community grew sufficiently large. To take care, therefore, of the preservation and propagation of the Catholic religion among the Hindus, a Hindu clergy has to be formed that could administer the sacraments and govern the Christian people properly, no matter how menacing the times.

 

Seminaries

 

8. For that reason, the prefects of the Congregation of the Indies, with the advice and approval of the Holy See, have founded seminaries for priests wherever possible. The Synods, moreover, of Colombo, Bangalore and Allahabad, held at the beginning of 1887, have decreed that every diocese should have its own seminary for the training of a native clergy; if any of the suffragan bishops do not have the financial means to do so, they are to have their seminarians trained in the metropolitan seminary at their own expense. The bishops are making every effort to implement these beneficial decrees, but their most admirable willingness is hindered by lack of funds and by the want of qualified priests to supervise instruction and direct discipline judiciously. Hence, there are hardly any seminaries where candidates are able to complete a prescribed course of studies-and this is at a time when the civil government and Protestants, in large numbers, are sparing no expense nor effort to offer young men a judicious and refined education.

 

9. It is evident, therefore, how opportune it is and how consistent with the public good to erect in the East Indies some seminaries where the native youth, the hope of the Church, are educated in all the refinements of doctrine and also in those virtues essential for the pious and wholesome exercise of sacred functions. As the reasons for dissensions have been removed by the pact agreed upon, and as the diocesan administration had been erected by the hierarchy of the Church, we would seem to have attained our goals if we could provide a sound basis for the training of the clergy. For, as We have said, once seminaries for the clergy have been founded, qualified priests in great numbers would come forth, and in spreading the truth of the Gospel, would skilfully utilize the important resources of their studies.

 

Financial Contributions

 

fitting that Europeans make some financial contribution, especially because We alone are not able to manage the vast cost of such an enterprise. It is the mark of Christians to cherish all mankind as brothers wherever they are, and to exclude no one from their love, particularly in matters upon which the eternal salvation of their neighbour depends. We, therefore, earnestly request that you will fully support our undertaking. Be sure that the role of Christianity in such remote regions becomes well known. Make your people understand that something must be done for the Hindus. May they who believe that works of mercy are the most perfect investment especially realize this need.

 

11. We are convinced that we have not appealed in vain to the generosity of your people. If the contributions should exceed the expenditures for the seminaries which we have mentioned above, we shall take care that the remaining funds will be used beneficially and conscientiously on other projects.

 

12. In token of heavenly favors, and as a witness of Our good will, most lovingly in the Lord, We bestow upon you, venerable brothers, upon your clergy and your people the Apostolic Blessing.

 

 

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

 

BY KATHLEEN LUCADAMO in Vatican City

and DEREK ROSE in New York

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

 

Among the endless line of Vatican mourners and within church sacristies, there is growing talk of making Pope John Paul II a saint.

Edward Cardinal Egan, archbishop of New York, said yesterday that he would be "delighted" to recommend John Paul for sainthood, but cautioned it's a complicated process.

 

"That decision is made after years of careful study. We have an office in the Vatican called the Congregation of Saints and they study these matters very, very closely."

 

Francis Cardinal George, the archbishop of Chicago, said it's no surprise there's a movement for sainthood.

 

"It would not be surprising that there would be an effort to move that along because he was obviously a holy man. ... He was praying all the time, he practiced praying since he was a very young man," George said.

 

Usually there's a five-year waiting period to begin the process for sainthood, but that's been waived before.

 

"Given his popularity, and the precedent he himself created for Mother Teresa, I would think the ordinary waiting process would be waived," said Msgr. Raymond Kupke, an adjunct professor of church history at Seton Hall University. "I would think within 10 years you could see him being beatified."

 

Once beatified, the Pope would be given the title "Blessed" and assigned a feast day on the church calendar. Canonization - being made a saint - takes more time.

 

Pope John XXIII, who died in 1958, was beatified in 2000 and that was considered quick, Kupke said. But Mother Teresea was beatified in 2003, a mere six years after her death.

 

To be a saint

 

In the Roman Catholic faith, saints need to have:

 

 

A life marked by heroic virtue.

 

Performed two miracles, or one miracle and be a martyr, sacrificing his or her life to the Lord. Modern miracles are almost always miraculous cures.

 

Never written anything contrary to faith and good morals.

 

Source: Wikipedia, Catholic Encyclopedia

 

 

 

 

 

[krsna]

 

 

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[theist]

They have the wrong idea. They think they can make someone a saint or not by their consensus and decree. "Two miracles" or "one miracle and be a martyr". What??? Where do they get these silly formulaes from?

 

And do they think it is a loss or gain for John Paul either way? Does his standing with God improve if a group of bound jivas declare he is a saint?

 

Silliness. Think about the Lord, appreciate His presence. Love Him and live for Him. Help others on this path as much as you can. Live this spiritualy progressive life and you will be a saint and won't even have to think twice about it.

[krsna]

 

By UWE SIEMON-NETTO

UPI Religion Editor

 

 

If Cardinal Francis Arinze were to be elected the first black pope, this would simply reflect a Christian reality, Roman Catholic or otherwise. Africa has become Christianity's powerhouse. It is on that continent that the body of Christ grows most robustly, while it ails in the secularized Northern Hemisphere.

 

Arinze is Nigerian. So is Archbishop Peter Akinola, orthodox Anglicanism's stalwart defender against the encroachment of the zeitgeist. And there are more English-speaking Catholics in Africa than in all the other continents put together. Arinze personally symbolizes this growth. In his less than 20 years as archbishop of Onitsha, the number of Catholics in his diocese increased 65 percent.

 

When Arinze was consecrated bishop in 1965, he was the world's youngest at the time -- 32 years old. A convert to Catholicism -- he was brought up to worship the deities of the Ibo people -- Arinze ranks among the world's top experts on interfaith dialogues, especially with Muslims with whom Christians in Nigeria live at times in fierce confrontation.

 

Until his recent appointment as prefect of the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship, Arinze had served as president of the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue since 1984. Much of his scholarly work concerned non-Christian faiths. His doctoral dissertation focused on Sacrifice in Ibo Religion. Other books by Arinze are titled "Church in Dialogue,Meeting Other Believers" and "Religions for Peace."

 

In dealing with non-Christians, Arinze displays great intellectual clarity that is helpful for Christians struggling with the daunting question of whether others, too, can be saved. Arinze stays well clear of syncretism. "The other religions are expressions of the human soul seeking God, with some beautiful spiritual insights, but also not without error. Christianity is rather God seeking humanity," he once said, adding that those who do not know Christ are still included in God's plan for salvation.

 

But he went on, "There are ... conditions. They (the non-Christians) must be sincere in their seeking of God. They must be open to the secret but real action of the Holy Spirit in them. They should follow their conscience in all matters of right and wrong."

 

He is an easy-going, humorous man who loves a good laugh -- and sports, especially soccer and tennis. But when it comes to doctrine, he is as hardnosed as John Paul II. Arinze does not shy away from reading self-indulgent Westerners the riot act.

 

Earlier in 2003, he shocked students and professors at Washington's Georgetown University when he told them in a commencement speech: "In many parts of the world, the family is under siege, opposed by an anti-life mentality as seen in contraception, abortion, infanticide and euthanasia. It is scorned and banalized by pornography, desecrated by fornication and adultery, mocked by homosexuality, sabotaged by irregular unions, and cut in two by divorce."

 

At 71, Arinze is the perfect age for a pope. And he is vigorous enough to exercise what seems to have become the mission of Africans: preaching the Gospel to an increasingly confused world.

[theist]

I heard a reporter ask this bishop if the Catholic Church was ready for a black Pope. He said if their were those who objected due to his skin color they should just leave as they aren't real Catholics anyway.

 

I liked that.

 

There is always this socio/political dimension to these things. A South American Pope to some makes good sense. Anybody but a liberal American say others.

 

Me, I would stick with St. Francis of Assisi.

[krsna]

 

 

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;

where there is injury, pardon;

where there is doubt, faith;

where there is despair, hope;

where there is darkness, light;

where there is sadness, joy;

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;

to be understood as to understand;

to be loved as to love.

 

For it is in giving that we receive;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

 

St. Francis was born at Assisi in 1182. After a care free youth, he turned his back on inherited wealth and committed himself to God. Like many early saints, he lived a very simple life of poverty, and in so doing, gained a reputation of being the friend of animals. He established the rule of St Francis, which exists today as the Order of St. Francis, or the Franciscans. He died in 1226, aged 44.

The prayer has many of the biblical truths of what it means to be a Christian - to seek to give, and in so doing, receive blessings; that the Lord's Prayer asks God to forgive us as we forgive, and that the goal of eternal life can only result from us putting to death our old sinful lives.

 

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[theist]

Jai St. Francis

[Guest guest]

Should be more like him.

He was a true example of the word Christian.

[Guest guest]

Bhakti Caru Svami:

 

Krsna das Prabhu asked Guru Maharaja about Pope Jean Paul II."What is the Vedic view of him?" he asked. Guru Maharaja replied, "There is a difference between the position of 'pope' and the person occupying the position. What is the person like, what is his character, that is the question." Guru Maharaja said, "He was a good man." Krsna das Prabhu added, "He had good intentions." Guru Maharaja said, "He had good intentions. However, if you put your finger in the fire without knowledge that the fire burns, will your finger get burned?Similarly," he added, "he had good intentions, but he ate cow flesh. That is the thing. I heard he especially liked veal. So he may have gotten a lot of recognition down here, but how the controllers of the universe see him, that may be different."

 

Guru Maharaja said, "One may get recognition in this world, but what about recognition in THAT world? Recognition in this world is not important. How Krsna sees us, that is important." Guru Maharaja remarked, "There is so much ignorance nowadays." Elaborating on this point, Guru Maharaja said, "I heard that when the Dalai Lama visited a famous bishop or Cardinal, the Dalai Lama insisted on having cow flesh." Guru Maharaja then spoke about charity in the mode of ignorance. He said, "Srila Prabhupada gives the example of a little boy who is suffering from Typhoid. The doctor tells his parents not to give him any solid food. They comply with his instructions. But the child cries, wanting to eat solid things. Then the neighbors hear the child crying and begin to think, "how cruel are the parents of this child!' They sneak into the house and feed the poor child solid food. They are well-meaning, but the result is that the child dies." Guru Maharaja continued, "Or like mother Theresa. They say she was a saint. But she took simple Indians who were vegetarians and turned them into meat-eaters."

 

Maharaja continued, "The Catholic Church has a big agenda to convert everyone to Catholicism." He remarked, "To bring someone who is completely Godless closer to God is good, but on the other hand, to bring people who are already close to God away from God is bad." Guru Maharaja said, "People who follow the Vedic understanding are close to Krsna. But the Catholic Church has no information of Krsna. So when a Christian converts someone who is situated in the Vedic knowledge to a doctrine which provides no information at all about Krsna, how Krsna must feel about that?" Guru Maharaja concluded, "Our lesson is that we can be grateful; due to Srila Prabhupada's teachings we have received the right understanding of what this human form of life is actually meant for."

 

[krsna]

By Sandi Dolbee

UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

April 17, 2005

 

 

 

KIMIMASA MAYAMA / Reuters

 

Cardinals attended a Mass yesterday led by Chilean Cardinal Jorge Arturo Medina Estevez at St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican.

 

ROME – Long conference tables and wooden chairs inside the Sistine Chapel are set up, the chimney pipe from which white smoke will signal a successful election is in place, and the red drapes over the balcony where a new pope will emerge are hung.

 

Housekeepers, cooks and other support staff have taken their vow of secrecy, the sites have been swept for eavesdropping devices and the official nine days of mourning Masses for Pope John Paul II are concluded.

 

All systems are go for tomorrow's start of the first papal conclave in nearly 27 years, and the mounting gossip and intrigue could rival that surrounding "The Da Vinci Code."

 

 

Advertisement

 

Cell phones ring and Italian newspapers arrive with extensive reports and predictions.

 

The Roman media say Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany has 50 of the 77 votes needed to succeed his old friend. It would be an interesting birthday present for the Vatican powerhouse, who turned 78 yesterday.

 

Other sources say he won't be the choice because U.S. cardinals and others have formed a coalition to block him.

 

Web sites have also gotten into the act. According to one, Cardinal Francis Arinze, 72, of Nigeria, will win by a landslide.

 

Forecasters looking for the papacy to return to Italian lineage suggest either Cardinal Angelo Scola, 63, of Venice or Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, 71, of Milan. And don't count out Portugese cardinals Jose da Cruz Policarpo, 69, and Jose Saraiva Martins, 73.

 

Like the best-selling "Da Vinci Code," however, sorting out fact from fiction has not been easy.

 

A Nigerian priest shakes his head in disbelief at all the speculation. This is a church, not a presidential election, said the Rev. Emanuel Anyadike.

 

"It is a matter of faith," he said. "We pray that God will choose."

 

But Vatican watchers don't deny these are exciting times in the capital of Christianity's largest denomination, which counts more than a billion baptized members around the globe.

 

"There is no doubt about that," said Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun from Pennsylvania who came here in hopes of pushing for liberal reform. "After a 26-year papacy, we have a historic turning point."

 

This turning point begins tomorrow morning, when the Catholic cardinals will assemble for Mass in St. Peter's Basilica. Tomorrow afternoon behind the closed doors of the Sistine Chapel, the 115 cardinal electors – those who are under 80 and able to attend – are expected to drop their first ballots in a specially designed urn of silver and gilded bronze. A two-thirds majority is necessary to declare a new pope.

 

Yesterday, the cardinals formally ended John Paul's reign, destroying his Fisherman's Ring and a lead seal used to prevent forgeries of papal documents.

 

Seeking to elect his successor, the cardinals will vote twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon each day under the watchful eyes of Adam and God, which Michelangelo painted on the chapel ceiling nearly five centuries ago.

 

After each vote, the ballots will be burned, notes will be confiscated. The cardinals are sworn to absolute confidentiality as part of a time-honored tradition of secrecy. This practice goes back to the 13th century, after townspeople in Viterbo, north of Rome, were said to have gotten so angered by a particularly long conclave that they locked the cardinals in the apostolic palace and fed them only bread and water. The cardinals elected Pope Gregory X.

 

The cardinals won't be roughing it to that extent. When they're not voting, they will stay at St. Martha's House, a modern hotel-like residence with private rooms and bathrooms.

 

John Paul, who died April 2, revised the conclave rules in 1996. He was committed to keeping these deliberations private, so the resulting 63-page booklet is steeped in precautions. Although John Paul's papacy capitalized on the media culture of television and the Internet, the rules make it clear that this is to be no prime-time reality TV show.

 

Staff members designated to take care of the cardinals pledged their confidentiality Friday. "I will observe absolute and perpetual secrecy," they promised. This vow may be lifted only by a pope; violators face excommunication.

 

The cardinals will take similar pledges tomorrow. In addition, they will be forbidden from communicating with the outside world unless there is an emergency.

 

"For most of you, the whole process of an election of a pope must seem pretty crazy," the Rev. Charles Burns, a retired Vatican archivist, told a conference of U.S. journalists here last week.

 

But the rules were honed over a period of centuries that saw people trying to storm the conclave and rulers threatening retaliation.

 

"Although we obviously depend on the Holy Spirit for choosing a priest, that's putting an awful lot of burden on the wings of the Holy Spirit," Burns said.

 

Even the final tally must be kept private. Consider what might happen if it is discovered that a pope squeaked by with one vote, Burns said. "I think it's better that we don't know, quite frankly."

 

Archbishop J. Michael Miller, secretary for the Congregation for Catholic Education at the Vatican, said secrecy may not be the American way, but Catholicism isn't just a U.S. church.

 

"What we subject our public officials to is not done in any other country in the world," said Miller, who is from the United States. He also noted that the American church accounts for only about 6 percent of baptized Catholics in the world. "That's something, I think, that's lost in the shuffle."

 

But Australian critic Paul Collins, who left the priesthood in 2001 because of a dispute over his unorthodox writings, would like a more-open church. "We need a pope who actually grants interviews," said Collins, who criticized the Vatican's use of the media as one-way communication that basically amounts to propaganda.

 

Whoever is selected pope will be more than a church leader. The Vatican also is its own country. The new pontiff will be a spiritual leader who goes toe-to-toe with foreign governments and the world's only superpower, the United States.

 

The challenges facing the cardinal electors are daunting – as the world wrestles with sectarian violence, global economics, the war in Iraq and social justice issues ranging from hunger to bioethics.

 

Rabbi Jack Bemporad, founder of the Center for Interreligious Understanding in New Jersey and professor of interreligious studies at the Vatican's Angelicum University, puts interfaith relations at the top of the hot-button list.

 

"Whether they like it or not, religions have to unite if we're going to face the problems of the world," he said.

 

Bemporad, who met with John Paul eight times, said the pope worked hard to try to bridge gaps between religions, with summit meetings and dialogue groups. But why should this responsibility fall to the pope? "He has great moral authority," Bemporad said. "If he speaks out for it, the world will respond."

 

For cardinals in places such as Africa and Asia, where Muslims and Christians live side by side, nurturing peaceful relations "is a matter of life and death," said the Rev. Thomas Reese, editor of the Jesuit magazine America and a U.S. expert on the Vatican.

 

Reese doesn't look for many doctrinal changes to come with the next papacy because John Paul appointed almost all the cardinals who will be voting. Instead, the concerns break up by geography. In the United States, for example, the role of women in the church looms large.

 

"It's not like the American cardinals want to ordain women, but they don't want somebody as pope who's going to get the women more angry at them," Reese said.

 

"Women are just too important in the church. If we lose educated women, we might as well hang it up because women are the ones who pass on the faith to the next generation."

 

Chittister, the U.S. nun, thinks the Catholic Church eventually will ordain women.

 

"There's no question about that," she said.

 

She does not have a favorite candidate to succeed John Paul. "What I want is anyone who is collegial. What I want is anyone who will listen to the concerns of our church."

 

Besides the throngs of tourists and journalists, special-interest groups have descended on Rome and the Vatican to get the word out about their causes. Whether they've succeeded is another matter because cardinals are sticking by their decision last week not to talk to the media.

 

Barbara Blaine, president of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, a U.S. victims' rights group with some 5,500 members, said she was turned away by Swiss guards when she tried to deliver a letter to the Vatican. Repeated phone calls also were unsuccessful.

 

Yesterday, the church concluded its nine days of mourning for John Paul and the cardinals wrapped up a series of private meetings where they've been discussing general church concerns.

 

So who will be the next pope? Most definitely it will be a cardinal. According to Vatican history, the last time a non-cardinal was elected was in 1378 and that resulted in a long schism.

 

As for the length of the conclave, the most popular predictions say there will be a decision by Wednesday or Thursday. Observers say if the cardinals meet beyond that, they run the risk of appearing divided.

 

Once the new pope is elected – just before he is quickly fitted with new papal garments (they've been made up in advance in small, medium and large) and introduced to the people in St. Peter's Square – he will be asked what name he chooses.

 

Reese, the Jesuit priest, won a $10 bet in 1978 when he predicted the name would be John Paul II. This time, he suggests the new pope might break with a centuries-old tradition and keep his baptized name. It would be one way to begin to step from the giant shadow cast by the man he is replacing.

 

As Reese put it, "He's got to have a reason for why he's not John Paul III."

 

 

[krsna]

New Pope? Nope

 

'Relativist' Catholics ripped by hard-liner

 

BY CHARLES W. BELL

SPECIAL TO THE NEWS

 

 

Couple awaits news (below), but black smoke means no new Pope yet.

 

 

 

 

VATICAN CITY - To no one's surprise, the cardinals failed to elect a new Pope in their first try yesterday, but not until after they heard a hard-line candidate denounce attempts to adapt church doctrine to modern times.

Clouds of black smoke curled from a pipe atop the Sistine Chapel last night, signaling that the first attempt to elect a successor to John Paul II had failed.

 

No Pope in modern times has been elected on the first ballot, and by tradition, many cardinals often cast first votes for colleagues they admire, without regard to their electability.

 

The 115 cardinals who are eligible to vote, representing 52 nations on six continents, were locked inside the Sistine Chapel in the evening after swearing on a Bible that they would never divulge what they see or hear - and if elected, will serve faithfully.

 

But, before they walked in a stately procession to the chapel, they heard a blistering, sweeping denouncement of Catholics who want changes in some church practices and teaching.

 

"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism that has at its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires," Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger told his fellow electors, seated before him at a preconclave Mass that filled St. Peter's Basilica.

 

Ratzinger, 78, dean of the College of Cardinals, reportedly led in preconclave voting with between 40 and 50 votes.

 

But some Vatican experts said that his hard-line attack on moderate cardinals may have seriously hurt or wrecked his chances of election.

 

One indication was that at the end of his 18-minute sermon, only 11 cardinals applauded - and their applause was brief and lukewarm.

 

In his sermon, Ratzinger called on cardinals to defend Catholic orthodoxy and reject attempts to update or change church teaching. He did not cite any specific teachings under fire, but the church is struggling to deal with demands by many Catholics for changes in the rules banning contraception, married priests, ordination of women and expanded rights for gays and lesbians.

 

"Adult faith is not one that follows tides of trends and the latest novelties," Ratzinger said.

 

He saved his harshest condemnation for "relativism," which he said denies absolute truths. "Relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, looks like the only attitude acceptable by today's standards," Ratzinger said.

 

He also defended fundamentalism, saying it was under attack because it was based on "clear faith."

 

For the first time, part of the conclave was televised, showing the scarlet-clad electors taking their oaths.

 

They entered the Sistine Chapel, with its magnificent Michelangelo frescoes, chanting the litany of saints, invoking their aid, before singing the ninth century hymn "Veni Creator" (Come, Holy Spirit).

 

Then, with the call "Extra omnes" ("Everybody out"), the great oak doors of the chapel were closed and locked.

 

The next time any of the cardinals are free to leave their tightly guarded surroundings - which include a ban on newspapers, television, radio, cell phones or any form of communication - the world's 1.1 billion Catholics will have a new Pope.

 

 

 

[krsna]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4445279.stm