Can we see the soul? Can we see the actual moon?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Out of interest I downloaded this, this excerpt is very enlightening. If anbody is interested then I have few questions to consider..

 

Van Allen belts ..is this what seperates 'our' time and that of the Other planets ? [Just a question]

 

If not, then what does separate the time?!

 

 

Ameyatma das

A Brief Description of the Krishna Conscious Understanding:

I must also say that I have been inspired to remain fixed in my understanding over the years due to the teachings of my spiritual teacher, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, who boldly preached that man has not gone to the moon. He based his statements on his firm acceptance of the Vedic scriptures. The Vedas clearly state that it is forbidden for man to travel to higher planets by mechanical means (and the moon is stated as being one of the higher planets).

 

However, Srila Prabhupad (as we called him, my spiritual teacher) had said, at times, two differing ideas about whether man had actually gone to the moon or not. Sometimes he would state outright that it was a hoax, they had not gone. While other times he gave some concession stating that 'even if' they did travel to the moon planet, because they went in their earthly body they would not able to actually enter the true moon planet. To enter the real moon planet one must first have a moon body.

 

I rationalized this as follows: The body is like a TV set. Our eyes and ears are set to only one frequency spectrum or channel. When a TV is set to channel 2 we only see the images and hear the sounds of scenes that are on that frequency. We cannot see or hear the scenes that are on channel 7. The senses of our earth body are tuned to only perceive scenes that can be turned in through our earth frequencies. The Vedic scriptures tell us that there are great cities and lakes and rivers and forests on the moon. But, Srila Prabhupad said that we cannot see them or perceive them with the senses of an earth born body. To enter the moon planet one must first have a moon planet body. Otherwise, since we have earth senses all we can see of the moon is what is there that has a common frequency with our earth senses. It appears that the water, air, and other elements are all on a different frequency on the moon. There is air and water, but it is not in the same frequency that we can perceive it. Also, the Vedas state that time on the higher planets is on a different scale. One moment there is equal to a year here. Everything, including time, is on a different wave-length on the moon planet. The Vedas state that the proper way to see these things is by Shastra-Chakshu, or seeing with the eyes of Scripture. We see by hearing what is there on the moon planet, not by trying to physically see or go there with this earthly body.

 

Moonshadows:

Did We Did We Really Go To

The Moon In The Late 1960's and Early 70's?

by Ameyatma das (James Beals)

 

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/library/Moonshadows.zip

[Airicky]

???

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

You'll find out.

 

Little hard to explain.

 

[Airicky]

http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad19.html

[Avinash]

Let me try to explain what Van Allen belt is.

 

There are radiation belts, which are regions of high energy particles. The particles are held in a given region by the magnetic force of the Earth. There is one belt which contains lots of high energy protons. The energy of protons in this belt is between 10 MeV and 50 MeV. This belt is known as Van Allen belt after its discoverer James Van Allen. The belt is approximately 4,000 miles above Earth's surface. Other than high energy protons, the belt also contains some lower energy protons and some other lower energy particles, e.g., electrons. The energy of these lower energy particles is 1-100 keV.

 

[Airicky]

That helps.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Basically the Author of the above, what I posted is saying nobody has ever actually passed this belt. So all the saturn missions etc. Except the Shuttle Mission all were faked. Thats what he says. He could be right. Also time is different here on this planet to Earth compared to say the Moon. So I have no clue how it would even be viable to say any human could goto the Moon, without possesing some Siddis. And if they did go then why haven't they been again? Prabhupada says it straight-

 

All Propaganda.

 

Also the author says this was all due to the Cold War, the rush to get Too the Moon. But the Van allen belt, for me does maybe bring the idea of the Universe being multi-dimentional. Also NASA made such a big deal out of the Shuttle missions, the Author says. And that thing is not even above 200 Miles in Space. The Moon is much father away. I think this will go on forever [its interesting I must admit]. But according to Srila Prabhupada we never went to the Moon, but also Prabhupada says if we did, then we cannot see the actual Moon.

 

Also we as temp beings covered by ignorance cannot see something which possess eternality [the soul]. Its in a different Time Frame. So its impossible to goto the Moon in our present body [without Siddis] and see this Planet. So actually whether or not we went really makes no differennce to Joe Bloggs or whoever.

 

Hare Krishna!

[Kulapavana]

"Basically the Author of the above, what I posted is saying nobody has ever actually passed this belt."

 

that claim seems bogus. just like the meteors can get IN, through this belt, you can also get OUT. Vedas certainly DO describe mechanical travel through space, and in one past Kali-yuga the asuras even built an empire stretching onto several different planets.

 

what we see (or travel to) is actually the "reflection" or a "footprint" of the actual moon planet into our own earthly time/space continuum.

[Airicky]

 

what we see (or travel to) is actually the "reflection" or a "footprint" of the actual moon planet into our own earthly time/space continuum.

 

 

Can you elaborate more on this please?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Hare Krishna, Dandavats

 

But what the author claims is the electronic things cannot survive going pass this belt. Also there is no actual evidence to prove these 'space-craft have gone past this belt.

 

Quote-just like the meteors can get IN

I don't know how these get in, maybe its was in thier Karma lol. But that still doesn't prove that USA/Russia etc ever went pass this belt. Even then they cannot prove the pictures either. And what Happened to Russia after USA went to the Moon? Why such a big deal about The Shuttle Programme [which was amatuer compared to GOING to the Moon].

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

what we see (or travel to) is actually the "reflection" or a "footprint" of the actual moon planet into our own earthly time/space continuum

 

 

This means its in a completely different 'time frame'. [but we cannot understand!] Or like a television set your channel is not tuned into this frequency. [The Moons]

 

If something is working in a different time frame and you also the vision to see it. Then you need some kind of a body to go with it. One moment here is 6 Months on the Moon [There must be some reason for this, more enjoyement?!]

 

Maybe the Time Factor is not really a problem. But the body is. And of cource the vision. Maybe we can make do with just the vision? But I doubt it. We cannot exactly goto Vaithunaloka without our Siddha-deha, spritiual body. But the material planets are different, anyway Srila Prabhupada says you need permission.

 

Ok say you get permission, I am sure they can provide you with a day pass lol. I am just kidding around now. I don't know how that would work.

 

 

 

[Kulapavana]

I'm not sure whether they went to the moon or not - all I'm saying is that it is possible they did.

 

the pictures some of the space probes are beaming (sending) to earth are very revealing and certainly don't look like they are simulated - that would be a proof to me that electronics survive this belt.

 

and if the Van Allen belt was so lethal, how come we (and our electronics) are still functioning, even as the only thing separating us is the shield of our magnetic field? the walls of spacecrafts can provide just as good protection for electronics if not better. and it would not be hard to create an artificial magnetic field around these devices using electromagnetic impulses.

[Kulapavana]

what we see (or travel to) is actually the "reflection" or a "footprint" of the actual moon planet into our own earthly time/space continuum.

 

it is easier to explain this concept using Himalayas as an example.

 

the Vedas describe Himavat as consisting of 3 levels of existence. the one we see is the lowest level, and it's tallest peak is Mt. Everest. but there is a higher realm too, where Badarik Ashram and other such places are situated - it's tallest peaks are many miles high - many yogis and mystics used to live there, and that is where Arjuna went in his travels as well. but even Arjuna could not enter the third (highest) realm, where great Devas reside.

 

Moon has a similar multi-dimensional aspect.

[Airicky]

Ahhh. Yes the example of the Himalayas helped. Thanks.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

and if the Van Allen belt was so lethal, how come we (and our electronics) are still functioning, even as the only thing separating us is the shield of our magnetic field?

 

Hare Krishna,

 

I read about 50,000 miles. The author talks about Deep Space, the magetic field is already not a problem. Its going into Deep space that the author says is not possible. And also how would they [NASA] control these space craft in deep space? The problem the author says is getting past this belt. Maybe they could, that still doesn’t prove that they went to the Moon [and back]. I could be ‘maybe’ convinced they did Land on the Moon, but coming BACK. IF also they never went, then all this technology they speak of is all nonsence. They never even could get past the Van Allen Belt! If all this is True. All the missions were faked. Even all this talk of Mars is lie. Its becoming more of a joke. Everybody knows USA got caught. [Dare I say with their pants down].

 

So where do Nasa go from here? Bhagavad-gita says-

 

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies. Bg.7.4

 

 

[Guest guest]

Food for thought:

 

Forget the moon, what you see on earth itself is not the complete picture. A good example is Vrindavan. What one sees is the material world. But there are many other spiritual realms situated in the very same place. Out of the 64 total dimensions (i hope i am right on the count)only 3 are accessible to humans. The other dimensions carry different worlds unknown to us, except through the vedas. But lot of it is in coded language. Meaning, one has to understand how to study them. So this moon business is not shady at all. Both from the scientists' and Prabhupadas' perspective. Each correct in their own right. Ofcourse Prabhupada on a higher plane than mundane scientists.

 

BTW Pankaja do you visit chat once in a while. I see someone there with the same id. LOL.

 

Hare Krishna.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

I don't visit rooms anymore. Just talk with devotees I know. Those chat rooms are too Mayayic for me. Sometimes I wonder if some people who visit them actually are in a Coma, or trying to get out of it. Anyway..

 

I heard this lecture called-

 

Conversation-Interview__Lunacy Of Moon Mission__27dec68_LA

MP3

 

Srila Prabhupada answers some questions about it. Its a very long lecture, and many questions are posed. One of them being asked is can a space person with a man made suit enter into the Moons atmosphere. Think about that for a while. Prabhupada never rules out the possibility, but according to Vedic Scripures [bhagavatam] you need a specific body to enter it. Anyway, the conclusion was that it was not possible to enter Moon without a body meant for that purpose. Plus the people there are different, so we cannot percieve them. All you can get is some rocks. As per Bhagavatam, you need a specific body. I mean you cannot expect to goto Vaikuntaloka planets in this body. I don't see why the Moon should be any different?

 

Kulapavana said the demons used to visit planets and travel in space. But in those days even demons knew Pranayama, and deep meditation. They were not devotees. HariboL!

 

[theist]

We have examples of this already. We have to make special suits to enter the ocean for any prolonged period of time, and even then we are not quite a full part of the eco system there. It just allows us to visit longer before we are forced to leave. To stay we would have to build a replica of a land based enviroment somehow transfering our land environment to underwater.

 

Even some materialists believe the moon landing was faked and present some convincing evidence.

 

I remember watching it on TV at the time and being disturbed that many pictures that were coming on screen were simulated due to camera problems or some such excuse. I always found it interesting that they had anticipated those camera problems well enough in advance to have these simulated shots ready.

 

The material world is a collosal kalidescope of ever changing illusions. We can spend eternity trying to sort out fact from fiction here, but why should we?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

We can spend eternity trying to sort out fact from fiction here, but why should we

 

First Line in Vedanta-sutra

Athatho brahma-jijnasa [inqure into the supreme]

 

Thats kind of what we are doing, sorting out the wheat from the chaff whatever.

[theist]

we should inquiry into the nature of the self as distinct from matter. I am not saying you shouldn't excercise your curiousity. You are connecting everything up to Krsna. I am speaking about the controversy devoid of Krsna. Such topics are endless and lead nowhere.

[Guest guest]

"The material world is a collosal kalidescope of ever changing illusions. We can spend eternity trying to sort out fact from fiction here, but why should we? "

 

I like that, well realized. I thought the first part was best.

 

Regarding seeing the soul this is interesting from Srila Sridhar Maharaj for those of you who haven't read it before.

It is very refreshing to hear such concepts from self realized souls. If we can enter into such realization we will no longer be perplexed with so many misconceptions.

 

Is such an astonishing thing possible? The atma - eternal, all knowing, all pure, sat-chit-ananda. Without food or sleep it can continue as a member of the eternal plane. Atma is self-effulgent, it can reveal itself and others also, and by its own realization we can comparatively know what is non-atma, not soul, by feeling the position of your atma. So give up the wild goose chase and use all your energetic movement in the search for your real identity, then you can seek out the necessary things for the application of your development and ultimately your constant engagement, try to know and inquire into the plane of love and beauty, to taste that real food, not the food from the witch or enchantress of this temporary world. A higher prospect you have, you are not meant for this temporary solution.

 

The Souls Form

Disciple: When the soul is in the tatasta shakti, does it have form?

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: The air has got one sort of unit just as fire and water have their respective units so the marginal potency also has it’s peculiar nature of unity, neither water nor land. Actually the word thought means neither water or earth, its mixed. Aksara undetectable, we cannot scrutinize it, by nature it’s not this or that, influenced by both the adjoining states, that is tatastha, marginal. When the soul comes out either this side or that then it gets some recognition otherwise undetectable. Ksara or aksara, detectable and undetectable, but it is ascertained by the supreme vision not by ordinary vision.

Disciple: So what is the form of the soul in conditioned material existence?

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: That is known according to the dress. The man sometimes to be fully recognized is known only by his dress, the representation of a thing to the ignorant section is of a particular type, it may not be the real thing, but something from their lesser position. Every unit is a slave to the Absolute vision, but to the ignorant there are so many different conceptions of things. Only He knows what is the purpose of every atom, every atom has got its utility and He is the only one who knows that purpose and He sees the divine luminous form of all. He is conscious of the purpose of all existence and He is independent, not responsible to explain to anyone. Every atom’s purpose in life is to satisfy him, this is Hegal’s theory. Reality by Himself and for Himself “Every wave and every movement is to fulfill My purpose, you are also Mine, belonging to me wholesale, but now you have put yourself in such a position that you have to search for me.”

Sometimes a man, a beast, tree, bird, creeper, the external understanding is according to the person who is relating to the object, the estimation is different according to the seer, the vision of the seer, the world is in the mind. The classification will be different according to the estimation of the reader how refined their vision may be. Like when Krishna entered the arena of Kamsa,

mallanam-asa-nirnrnam naravarh srina

smaro murtiman .

gopanam svajano satamksiti-bhujam santa svapriroh sisuh

mrtyur-bhoja-pater-virada-vidusam tattvam param yoginam

vrisninam paradevitetividito rangam gatah sagrajah

 

According to their vision, everyone saw him with a different estimation, he was viewed according to the respective mentality of every spectator. The people saw him as a divine super human being, while the ladies saw him as the Lord of love and the cowherds as their kinsman while Kamsa saw him as death personified. Relative and Absolute.

 

The Nature of the Soul

Sat-chit-anandam these three things - (1) existence, (2)Knowledge of our own existence, (3) and the fulfillment of our existence.

The figure of existence, the figure of consciousness, and the object of the search of the figure. Whoever is conceiving, when searching for something, that is the soul. What the soul wants to feel is higher, and what it is feeling at present is lower, and chit is in between. The level below is matter so it is not satisfactory, therefore we desire anandam, fulfillment, harmony and beauty from the higher level, without anandam existence is empty and chit- knowledge is dry, also unsatisfactory. Three kinds of existence sat-chit-anandam, Satyam-Sivam-Sundaram. Siva is generally represented by consciousness and sakti-potency by matter, and consciousness of the potency is Siva the figure, the person, and who can fulfill the search of the person? That is anandam sundaram, who is beauty, harmony, love. Andanam is complete, full in Itself, both existence and the person you will find in anandam, but not in sat or chit, So existence and the figure of existence both need something more, so with beauty, love and ecstasy, that is perfect existence. Anandam is the Queen, and existence is the servant, the figure of our existence is to serve that ecstasy or bliss and who is the reservoir of that ananda? Govindasundara the beautiful.

Disciple: If the spirit is subjective, what is the difference between the mind and the spirit.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj; Mind is a conception above gross matter. There is conception of the lower things and the higher things, and the mind is in the middle, conceiving about the objective from lower things, that is mind. I will take this, I won’t take that, aspiring for things, sankalpa-vikalpa, sympathy and apathy for material things, that is mind. The judgment faculty about this sort of decision, that is intelligence, buddhi. This cannot be, so it must be that, this sort of reasoning is buddhi.