Stars and Planets?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

SB:4.27.42-44

Fourth Canto, Chapter Twenty-nine, TEXTS 42–44, PURPORT [extract]

All the stars are planets, as far as we can see, within this one universe. According to Western theory, all the stars are different suns, but according to Vedic information, there is only one sun within this universe. All the so-called stars are but different planets. Besides this universe, there are many millions of other universes, and each of them contains similar innumerable stars and planets.

 

[theist]

Do you have something to say on this Pakaraja?

 

I for one don't accept it but also I don't fret over such statements.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Well just posting. How can you not accept it? Do you actually know for sure if its true or not?

 

I am not one of those people who accepts one thing and rejects another. Esp as far as Bhagavatam is concerned. That's what Jnana-yogis do, they speculate more, but never actually come to any logical conclution. That's why I am really enquiring, about all this. No point acting like a child and saying 'I don't accept it'! Childesh mentality. I never actually did this. You will see time and time again, in Purports Prabhupada always talks about Karma, Jnana and Bhakti to make us see that 'hey buddy I know your reading my Pure Books, but sooner or later if you ever fall, least you'll know why!'

 

Sorry if the post is harsh its not meant to be:)

 

 

[theist]

I am one of those people who accepts somethings and rejects another. I choose not to hide from genuine doubts considering that a form of self delusion.

 

Don't worry I am neither disturbed by your harsh tones or flattered by any positive ones you may offer.

 

So to you there is only this one sun energizing this entire universe. And to me the suns are so many they are practically innumerable. But at least we agree that the Original Source is One and Personal.

[Guest guest]

>> No point acting like a child and saying 'I don't accept it'! Childesh mentality.

 

Actually, I think it's children who are more likely to accept anything that comes their way. Not having the critical powers of adults, it's hard for a child to know true from false. They tend to believe what they're told. But the great advantage of the child is that they don't let their hopes and fears interfere with their beliefs. That's a very grown up thing to do. Only an adult could refuse to believe something because it scared them!

 

As for the stars, they're not planets. Unless you define "planets" to include what stars are.

[Kulapavana]

all we know about other "suns" comes from the analysis of light and other spectral vibrations. it is an extremely speculative process, relying on assumptions we cant really prove (like interpretation of the spectral Doppler effect in deep space).

 

having said that, keep in mind, that our sun is also called the Sun-planet in SP writings. some vedic researchers say whatever we see out there is just our universe, others claim we can see into other universes, as their coverings are transparent....

 

so... just like theistji said: dont fret over this.

[Kulapavana]

even the speed of light in deep space is an assumption. light can be slowed down. read this:

 

Jane Platt

Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

(Phone: 818/354-0880)

 

 

May 21, 2003

RELEASE : 03-176

 

 

Frozen Light: Cool NASA Research Holds Promise

 

NASA-funded research at Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., that literally stops light in its tracks, may someday lead to breakneck-speed computers that shelter enormous amounts of data from hackers.

 

The research, conducted by a team led by Dr. Lene Hau, a Harvard physics professor, is one of 12 research projects featured in a special edition of Scientific American entitled "The Edge of Physics," available through May 31.

 

In their laboratory, Hau and her colleagues have been able to slow a pulse of light, and even stop it, for several-thousandths of a second. They've also created a roadblock for light, where they can shorten a light pulse by factors of a billion.

 

"This could open up a whole new way to use light, doing things we could only imagine before," Hau said. "Until now, many technologies have been limited by the speed at which light travels."

 

The speed of light is approximately 186,000 miles per second (670 million miles per hour). Some substances, like water and diamonds, can slow light to a limited extent. More drastic techniques are needed to dramatically reduce the speed of light. Hau's team accomplished "light magic" by laser-cooling a cigar-shaped cloud of sodium atoms to one-billionth of a degree above absolute zero, the point where scientists believe no further cooling can occur. Using a powerful electromagnet, the researchers suspended the cloud in an ultra-high vacuum chamber, until it formed a frigid, swamp-like goop of atoms.

 

When they shot a light pulse into the cloud, it bogged down, slowed dramatically, eventually stopped, and turned off. The scientists later revived the light pulse and restored its normal speed by shooting an additional laser beam into the cloud.

 

 

[Guest guest]

It's an assumption, but only in the sense that "I won't be attacked by a pink turtle with a baseball bat tommorow" is an assumption. Deep space is an almost perfect vacuum - you can tell from the gravity, among other things - and the speed of light in a vacuum is known. Maybe there's some mysterious undiscovered force slowing the light down. Maybe there's a pink turtle heading to your house right now. You can't prove there isn't, but that doesn't mean there is /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Not all planets need to be based on the elements of earth and water. Like for the sun Prabhupada also considered it a planet, where the inhabitants had suitable fire bodies to reside there.

 

There certainly will be other firey planets in the universe that resemble the sun, but the distinction between them is that Surya-narayana resides on the sun and the sun's energy is a reflection of the brahmajyoti, whereas the other firey planets receive their energy from the sun.

 

Thus there really isn't as big a difference between the two sides as it might appear.

[vijay]

Beneath Rasatala is another planetary system, known as Patala or Nagaloka, where there are many demoniac serpents, the masters of Nagaloka, such as Sankha, Kulika, Mahasankha, Sveta, Dhananjaya, Dhrtarastra, Sankhacuda, Kambala, Asvatara and Devadatta. The chief among them is Vasuki. They are all extremely angry, and they have many, many hoods--some snakes five hoods, some seven, some ten, others a hundred and others a thousand. These hoods are bedecked with valuable gems, and the light emanating from the gems illuminates the entire planetary system of bila-svarga.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the Fifth Canto, Twenty-fourth Chapter of Srimad-Bhagavatam, entitled "The Subterranean Heavenly Planets."

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

 

But here the body is predominantly made of earth, and there the body is predominantly of fire. Therefore it is so glowing. The glowing temperature, heat and light, is coming from the person, their body is made of glowing heat or fire. There are five material elements: earth, water, fire, air, and ether. In some planet the earth is prominent, in some planet the water is prominent, in some planets the fire is prominant. So the sun planet is prominent with fire. There the bodies made of the inhabitants there are fire. So all the combination of the fiery effulgence is the heat of the sun globe and that is being distributed.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Srutakirti: Yesterday you were telling Bhurijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy.

Prabhupada: Yes. (coughs)

Srutakirti: Roll down the window.

Prabhupada: ...the demonic, they construct very nice house. (break) ...this planet, there are seven other planets. There sunshine does not go. But they are very well situated.

Madhudvisa: Well situated? Even though there's no sun?

Prabhupada: Yes, but there are snakes which has got jewel on the head. That light keeps them illuminated.

Madhudvisa: But does that light also keep them healthy?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Madhudvisa: Like the sun gives us, keeps us healthy.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Madhudvisa: So the jewels from the snakes can also provide that nutrition?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Devotee 1: So those snakes are very important. (break)

Prabhupada: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Surya-narayana resides on the sun and the sun's energy is a reflection of the brahmajyoti

 

 

Surya is empowered to do this?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I heard in this lecture of Prabhupada, this disicple was saying that this scientist discovered that the Moon is in fact further away from the Sun due to the light source.[sun] Like when the Sun sets it's always different for everywhere. So the Sun cannot be in a fixed position. [i am not sure if Scientists say the Sun moves or not]. Anyway that explains why it's called a Planet.

 

It's seem really obvious logical things. Even with the Earth moving on it's axis, and the Moon which moves around the Earth [bhagavatam says it moves around something else]. So while all this is happeneing, day and night take place.! I want somebody to explain why and how the Moon changes, half-moon etc, according to Bhagavatam. Because I think actually scientist don't know how it takes place.

[theist]

will come eclipses.

[Kulapavana]

the linear distance to the Moon can be easily established by bouncing off radio waves and measuring the time it takes for them to return.

 

as I have explained a hundred times before /images/graemlins/wink.gif Bhagavatam is talking about the "planes of existence" and their relative relationship to the earthly plane: in that sense the lunar plane is higher than solar. the distances given there are just for reference and give us a sense of proportions of the Universe.

 

THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING VEDIC COSMOLOGY IS THE UNDERSTANDING OF SPACE.

 

without it, you are just wasting your time...

[Kulapavana]

I find the issue of Vedic cosmology to be an important one, for several reasons. I'm one of those "scientific" types, with MS in Engineering and a life long career in scientific environment (I'm currently a manager of an analytical laboratory). I have been studying Vedic cosmology for many years, gradually understanding the issue deeper and deeper. Over time, my appreciation for Vedic view only increased and my faith strenghtened. I did not give up my scientific mind and did not abandon rational analysis. to the contrary - the Vedic approach EXPANDED my view of rationality, logic and science.

 

[theist]

Kulapavanna, When you say linear space you are talking about straightest line between two objects right? So from the linear perspective which is closer to the Earth, the sun or moon?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Planes of exsistance. Ok I forget about this. But how can you Scientifically explain something like this? And you mentioned before that even Asuras used to fly to the Moon and other planets. In planes. I don't seem to know why there needs to be all these planes of exsistance, to explain something. If somebody needs something explaining then why not only Through Bhagavatam?

 

What I am saying is, these Planes we cannot even see. Anyway I await your reply.

 

One other thing I got from Prabhupada lectures is actually Asura cannot see these places while devotees can.

[Kulapavana]

in our earthly dimension (world) in linear sense the Moon is closer than the Sun. that is pretty much a FACT.

 

however, in our world we only see the "footprint" of the lunar plane of existence, represented as what we all call "the Moon".

[Kulapavana]

some asuras are infinitely more materially advanced than humans. some great asuras fight with Indra in person. their bodies are different than ours. Nagas are asuras too, yet they have so many wonderful powers.

 

and then there are the small time asuras in human form of life. some great devotees in human form visited other dimensions (like Badarik Ashram in Himalayas) - these small time asuras could not do such a thing, regardless of the machine they may invent. that is what SP is saying here.

 

asura is just a category of consciousness.

[mahoney]

Are there really Asuras.Surely they cant be worse than humans

in todays world. Do they really exist?? Even they might be afraid to come down to earth as humans have beaten them

[Kulapavana]

you have no clue how bad these asuras can be... besides, some of them (nagas and rakshasas) actually walk this earth in human form even as we speak - they are the ones who often manipulate our human society for their benefit.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

you have no clue how bad these asuras can be... besides, some of them (nagas and rakshasas) actually walk this earth in human form even as we speak - they are the ones who often manipulate our human society for their benefit.

 

 

Thats uncalled for, Bush is not Rakshasa

[theist]

By setting up an enviroment where demoniac activities flourish we are inviting the birth of more and more people with asuric mentalities. It has a snowball effect.

 

It's like on a certain block you have a Church, a diamond store and a whore house. All of these attract people of different tastes.

 

Kali was given permission to leave where? As those places become more and more prominent they will attract more and more kali types to live there.

 

-------------------------------

 

SB 1.17.38: Suta Gosvami said: Maharaja Parikshit, thus being petitioned by the personality of Kali, gave him permission to reside in places where gambling, drinking, prostitution and animal slaughter were performed.

 

SB 1.17.39: The personality of Kali asked for something more, and because of his begging, the King gave him permission to live where there is gold because wherever there is gold there is also falsity, intoxication, lust, envy and enmity.

 

SB 1.17.40: Thus the personality of Kali, by the directions of Maharaja Parikshit, the son of Uttara, was allowed to live in those five places.

 

Read the whole story in SB 1.16-17 beginning here:

 

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/16/en1

 

 

[Kulapavana]

"Thats uncalled for, Bush is not Rakshasa"

 

of course not! he is much too stupid to be a Rakshasa. he is just their servant boy... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[theist]

 

...they are the ones who often manipulate our human society for their benefit.

 

 

While we, the antlike masses, only wish we could.