Swami Narayana Followers go where?

[Guest guest]

Swaminaryan guest.....we are still waiting for shastric evidence. don't worry, you won't find it any authentic scripture.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Swaminarayans worship Krsna.

[Guest guest]

Yes like i said it is importnant to question otherwise tommorow a mere person could appear proclaiming to be God and then the vedas can be harmed to as well.

 

I know what you mean. Lord Swaminarayan made sure this wasnt the case. He backed up the vedas and critisised many mayavadis and vedanti's who believed there was nothing but Brahm etc. He ripped them up and proclaimed there was but one God and he lived in his abode in his sakaar form.

 

Lord Swaminarayan established the vedas again in that region. We are his folowers following his phiosophy which was originally laid down by Ramanuj Acharya. (Vishithadvaita phiolosphy). He taught people the way of the Sankhya Yoga and , Dharm, Bhakti, Gnyan and Vairagya.

 

He was more than a Sadhu or a guru which of course he was as well.

 

i have quoted from the Vasudev Mahatmya the shloka. Please read up on ity if you can. He was Nar Narayan incarnate born to dharmdev and Moorti(named as Bhakti in her avtaari life) due to teh curse of Dhurvasa in the Kaliyug.

 

This is our belief. We understand where you are coming from, but what we follow is not a blind bonafide faith but a pratibimb of What Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught as well.

 

We follow as we have realised Lord Swaminarayan was God as did the people living in his presence on the earth. We do so also by realising him being God was truth from the scriptures as well such as the Skand Puran .

 

We do not just follow as we feel like.Many have witnessed Lord Swaminarayans presence even today. many have had his darshan but that again is a matter of faith. many have experienced his divineness today. He has helped many.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

THAT IS TRUE. PLEASE DONT DISREGARD LORD SWAMINARAYAN LIKE THAT. DO YOU NO THINK THAT YOU MAY BE OFFENDING LORD KRISHNA IN ANY WAY? WHEN YOU GO TO HEAVEN (GOD WILLING) AND YOU FIND LORD SWAMINARAYAN WAS LORD INCARNATE.

 

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU SHOULD BE SAYING "YOU MAY BE RIGHT! WHAT YOU FOLLOW IS YOUR BELIEF AND YOU FOLLOW YOUR ISHTADEV. BUT UNDERSTAND WE FOLLOW HIM FOR A REASON. MORE THAN ONE REASON TO BE TRUTHFULL. BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT HE WAS NAR NARAYAN'S INCARNATION.

[Guest guest]

getting "off our case" will not make it any different. You being on our case has made me understand that Lord Swaminarayan was definatly God. Its good you questioned. i thank you. As my beliefs in Lord swaminarayan have grown much further. Thankyou

 

Please read the 18th adhyay of Vasudev Mahatmya!

May God grant you the Gnan to recognise his greatness!

 

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

Jay shri Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

hey guest its not just the vasudev mahatmya i can even get you scriptures which actually state words like :

 

Datatrayam krutyuge,

tretayaam raghunandana,

dvapare vasudevaha,

kalou swami vrushatmaja II

 

that quote is in the Padma Puran but im just waiting to find out from which Kahnd and shloka. i will be successful i know.

 

 

And Vishnu dharmottar:

 

II Pakhandbahuloke swami namna hari swayam,

papank nimagnam tajuddhaar yishyati II

 

II Mahadharmanvye punye,

naamna paapvinashke,

hariprasad vivrasya,

swami namna hari svayam II

 

 

 

Dont judge without reading!!!!!

 

[Guest guest]

HI im a non-swaminarayan hindu and therefore i am imparitial on aruguments that esist between the various sawminarayan groups. I find the criticisms of BAPs devotees made by some of the ISSO devotees as simlistic!!!!!!!. I have many freinds who are fallowers of Bochasanwasi Akshar PUrushotam sanstha (BAPS) and they do not worship Pramukh swami as god. he is their Guru and see him in importance only after they see god!!!!! One thing i notice about Pramukh swami is that he is a very humble man, and contrast this to the present leaders (acharyas) of the original swaminarayan group, who lead very opulent and luxurios lives!!!!!

 

IT also is very ineteresting how the Vadtal branch of the original swaminarayan sect has been the focus of major controversy over the last few years, regarding corruption of its leaders, sex scandals and bitter disputes over control of money, which reached its zenith in a murder of a sadhu and the removal of the Acharya Ajendraprasadji.

Check out these links fron news pages:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-37796601,prtpage-1.cms

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10319

 

It is this very branch of the original swaminarayan sect that Sri sadhu Yagnapurushdas (Shastriji Maharaj) came from. Shastriji left Vadtal afetr disagreements over doctrines around a century ago and founded the BAPS swamianarayan group now one of the fasted growing branches movements of hindusim in India, who Pramukh swami is now head of.

[Guest guest]

"HI im a non-swaminarayan hindu and therefore i am imparitial on aruguments that esist between the various sawminarayan groups"

 

 

YEAH RIGGHHHHTTT!!! You have BAPS written ALL over you!

Typical BAPS, stoop down to propaganda and hearsay rather than genuine philosophical or theological debate.

DONT FROGET THERE WERE AND ARE PLENTY OF SCANDALS AND SURROUNDING CHILD ABUSE AND TRAINEE ABUSE AT THE SARANGPUR TEMPLE OF BAPS. And who will forget the famous murder of Manibhai??

 

Acharyas as Grihastha householders. They accept the offerings and services of the followers as the leaders of the Sampraday. So what if Pramukh Swami is a 'good man'...as a saint/sadhu thats EXACTLY WHAT he is supposed to be. That doesn't make BAPS bonafide at all.

With BAPS, Sokhda, Maninagar and all the sooooo many breakaway groups out to discredit and defame the Acharyas - the press throw some mud and hope it will stick.

 

All the rubbish about why Yagnapurush was kciked out of the original is well-documented in the courts of India. He wanted to be worshipped, and the original sect did not allow. He continued to fabricate and adulterate the teachings of Swaminarayan and so he was ex-communicated.

 

Now of course BAPS people are all taught a different sugar-coated story. End of the day BAPS is NOT the original Swaminarayan movement. Not administravely, not philosophically.

 

If BAPs do not worship Pramukh Swami, why the photos of him in every shrine???

Funny, I thought the first feature of a TRUE sadhu was humility!

[Guest guest]

And Krishna worshipped Govardhan...

[Guest guest]

In harililamrut. Lord Swaminarayan himself went to the saints and offered his seat to an acharya. The saints did not accept the offer, they declined as they stated that their sashu tyagi dharm would fourish and that an acharya should be a householder (grahast) as they could handle money etc.

 

BAPS, Maninagar etc have all declined the Lords words and agya. As in every belief there are opposers, there too are opposers of true faith.

 

the scandals etc etc take place in all religious movemets may i add. This is evil. however the truth is the truth and these scandals etc should not be used to point fingers at the truth.

 

The truth is Lord Swaminarayan installed " acharyas (vadtal and amdavad) and this is the eternal truth.

 

The yadavs were all relatives of Krishna. They quarreled fought etc which was against the teachings of Krishna. Does this mean that they were not the Yadavs? No it doesnt. A minority cannot change the truth no matter what the case.

 

Ajendra prasad of Vadtal caused havoc hence he was dethroned from the Acharyaship. The new acharya you may find is worthy of his place.

 

they are the decendents of the Dharmkul. Decendents of Shesh (rampratap) and also Icharam brothers of Lord Swaminarayan.

 

This is the fact. Maninagar are totally misguiding as are the rest of the branches that have broken off because they of ahamkaar.

 

They do not want to accept the truth. Do they not read the sikshapatri?

 

Muktanands arti has even been changed by BAPS:

 

instead of NArayan nar bhraata dwij kul tanu dhari

 

they say?

 

 

narayan muni trata dwij kul tanu dhaari.

 

Why change the authentic original doctrine? just like the mayavadis changed the vedas in the past.Thats disgraceful no matter how much good deeds the sampraday may carry out.

 

 

Maninagar sanstha are also totally wrong. They worship a sadhu by doing abhisek and drinking the water as prasad!!!

 

lord Swaminarayan himself stated in teh Sikshapatri:

my followers shall not meditate upon a sadhu even if he has acheived the calibre of a brahmveta.

 

Do they not read such?They have even changed the vachanamrut to suit their own needs! They are in no way folling the sanyasi tyagi dharms. They state Gopalanand was next acharya when it is clearly stated that no sadhu accepted to become a acharya:

 

The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji.

 

(In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharya’s).

 

Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.”

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Any1 get hold of the skand puran? its in the vishnu khand.

[vijay]

No not yet, have written a letter to someone I know at oxford hindu studies, hopefully thay have a copy or now of something about it. The skand purana is also very big infact the biggest purana

[vijay]

This is the response i got from the person I wrote to, he has a phd in sanskrit and done his thesis on translating sanskrit texts, I've left his name out as I dont have his permission to use his name.

 

Let me describe the process and problems behind

>verifying such verses in the Puranas.

>

>You see, the difficulty with quotations from the

>Puranas, and especially the Padma and Skanda Puranas,

>is this: both of these Puranas are very large and

>amorphous texts. Over the centuries, they were copied

>and recopied by hand, and for many different reasons,

>changes and additions were introduced. Sometimes

>scribes would make accidental mistakes, sometimes they

>would correct a previous scribe's mistakes, sometimes

>they would add verses, and sometimes delete. This is

>all due to the frailties of the human being and not

>due any weakness in the scriptures themselves. In any

>case, due to this phenomenen, there are usually many

>different versions of any ancient text, as different

>manuscript lines develop in different regions of

>India. There are many different recensions of the same

>text, and whenever someone wants to prove a particular

>point, they usually quote a verse ascribed to them.

>However, it is usually very difficult to locate the

>verses, and without verse numbers, it is virtually

>impossible. In order to prove the verses are

>authentic, one would not only have to point out the

>verse in a printed (modern) edition of the text, but

>also go back into the handwritten manuscript

>tradition. Here is why: a printed edition can easily

>have come from just one old manuscript. A single

>manuscript can easily differ from other manuscripts

>and include verses that are not found in other

>manuscripts. The real test of authenticity is to able

>to show that a particular verse is found across the

>board in a range of different old manuscripts from

>different regions.

>

>What I am describing above is by no means meant to

>question the integrity of the devotees of Swaminarayan

>or the authenticity of the verses. This is simply

>common scholarly knowledge that to trace verses in

>Puranic literature, especially the Skanda and Padma

>Purana, is by no means easy. It is for this reason

>that I have not made the effort to search for these

>verses myself.

>

>Actually, for the Skanda Purana, a critical edition

>has recently been published. A critical edition takes

>into account all the different manuscripts and gives

>the differences and then tries to work back to the

>original text as it was. If a verse can be found in

>the critical edition, then it has a good chance of

>being authentic.

>

>Once the authenticity of a verse has been established,

>the next step is to read the Sanskrit in the context

>of the original passage and see whether there are

>other ways to interpret the verse. It is the

>commentator's job to establish that his interpretation

>of the verse is the most reliable.

>

>The first quote about Akshardham from the Skanda

>Purana is a good example of this: Here Lord Vasudeva

>simply says that that He has an imperishable (akshara)

>abode (dhama), where He eternally lives in the company

>of Srimati Radharani and Lakshmi devi. This is clearly

>a reference to Lord Krishna's abode. Lord Krishna

>confirms in Bhagavad-gita also that His dhama is

>imperishable.

>

>Basically, I don't think that there is much point in

>arguing about these verses. The the fact is that if

>you already believe that Sri Swaminarayan is God, then

>you will find these quotations convincing, otherwise

>not. The best thing is simply to faithfully follow

>one's particular sampradaya and regard members of

>other sampradayas with respect.

>

 

[Guest guest]

You seem to have changed your tone a little.

 

So what youre trying to say now? is that she shloka is made up?

 

In no way is it made up! Its there.Why you questioning or making it out that Akshardham is not the same Akshardham Lord Swaminarayan Talks of? Of course it is. The Swaminrayan faith is there and He w s Lord himself and you seem not to acccept it and denounce all the people who do?

 

We will continue worshipping as the quote clearly explains that Nar Narayan incarnate is Swaminarayan himself!

If someone can prove the Swaminarayan faith as corupt and proclaim Lord Swaminarayan was not God then do so!

 

Jay Swaminarayan

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

[vijay]

"You seem to have changed your tone a little."

"So what youre trying to say now? is that she shloka is made up?"

 

This is a response to a letter I wrote to someone who translated and studied various scriptures for his phd. Its not my opinion its his. From what I can see he has not dismissed it and has given a history and a process to verify verses (which isnt easy as most think). Everyone is entitled to believe in what they like, our beliefs and the consequences of them is our responsibility.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

It sure is. This is not what you were stating in the previous post tho. You were very adament in saying that Lord Swaminarayan could not have been Gid and there was no such thing as Akshardham.

 

Im happy that you have realised that we are entitled to believing in Lord Swaminarayan.

 

That the shlokas were not fabricated in the Vishnu khand of Skand Puran (vasudev Mahatmya).

 

We follow Krishna. He is the same Lord Swaminarayan for us, as Lord Swaminarayan was Nar Narayan incarnate just like stated in the Shlokas.

 

i hope more and more people realise with the grace of God that we do not follow a blind faith which gets the follower nowhere near heaven.

 

Before hurting such devotees by thinking such they should realise that Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would not want this and questioning followers who abide in the rules of the Santan Dharm is a sin which God gets angry over. the Lord does not like when his devotees are hurt nor his saints.

 

As one devotee to another i offer you homage just in case you have been hurt because of me (follower of Lord Swaminarayan) by thought word or deed.

 

 

Jay Swaminarayan

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

[Ash]

Here is Srila Prabhupadas analysis on this whole debate, maybe long but has a lot of interesting points, please take note:

 

24th March 1974 - Srila Prabhupada Conversation 1

 

Guest (2) (Indian man): No, no. He is from that sampradaya. (break) They worship God as Swami Narayana. My Lord is Narayana. Swami means the Lord, and Narayana is the Lord. So they say always "Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana." Just like we chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, they chant "Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana." The Lord is Narayana, God is Narayana, God is Narayana. So Swami is Narayana. You see, actually what did he preach, "Our Swami is Narayana." So they have Swami Narayana song.

Prabhupada: That is Mayavada. That is Mayavada.

Guest (1): That is Mayavada, or whatever it may be.

Dr. Patel: Everything is Mayavada.

Guest (2): Oh, Lord is Narayana.

Prabhupada: As soon as we say, "Our Swami is Narayana," it is Mayavada.

Dr. Patel: It is not that. It is... What he says is not right.

Guest (1): No, that is, I understand. I have not...

Dr. Patel: You read all the magazines that I have read. He accepts... (break)

Prabhupada: ...Vivekananda has done: daridra-narayana. Here is "Swami Narayana."

Dr. Patel: That is different also. You don't put up two together.

Prabhupada: No, no. Same thing. Another...

Dr. Patel: Don't get excited or it will be...

Prabhupada: No, no. I'm not getting excited. You are getting.

Guest (1): You also don't get excited.

Dr. Patel: I am not getting excited, but it's not that. I will really bring you the real...

Prabhupada: No, no. I am asking what is the difference between this daridra-narayana and Swami Narayana? That I am asking.

Dr. Patel: See, he actually went to Badrinath. When we call Narayana, Narayana, as our Lord, how is it Mayavada? How it comes into Mayavadi?

Prabhupada: That is explained by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastraih. Guru is accepted as good as God. Haritvena samasta-sastraih. Saba-sastra.

Dr. Patel: In all sastras.

Prabhupada: Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktah, it is said. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih. And this principle is accepted by great saintly persons. Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya. He's not one with the Prabhu, but he's very dear servant of Prabhu.

Dr. Patel: That is right.

Prabhupada: That conception is Vaisnavism. And as soon as you simply say that "He is God," that is Mayavada.

Guest (2): Yes but we are not... But he has wrongly...

Guest (1): No, Swami Narayana, what I told you the principle of Swami Narayana is that...

Guest (2): Swami Narayana...

Dr. Patel: You have no right to speak.

Guest (1): No, no. What I understand about this...

Dr. Patel: There are three schools of Vaisnavism. But that... In that school, the preaching and everything in the worship is the same, more or less.

Prabhupada: (break) The thing is... This is the conclusion, that guru may be worshiped as Krsna, but the worshiper knows that "I am worshiping my guru not because he has become Krsna, but he is the most confidential servant of Krsna." That is Vaisnava.

Dr. Patel: All the Vaisnavas, what he has said. Every time he has said the same thing.

Prabhupada: This is the difference between Vaisnava school and Mayavadi school. Advaita-vada and dvaita-vada. They become very strong, at the same time, remain servant.

Dr. Patel: These suddhadvaita-vadis, their upper garment and lower garment the same as... (break) ...you call Mayavadis, they say that this is all humbug and nothing and nonexistence. They... (break) ...both are one and both are right and both are existent and both are... There is no illusion, as you say. The same thing.

Prabhupada: Simultaneously one and different.

Dr. Patel: That is a little (indistinct)

Prabhupada: So unless you accept this difference, then it is Mayavada. Simply oneness is Mayavada.

Dr. Patel: That's right. You may... You accept one and the same, separate both or another explana..., another, only Krsna knows and nobody knows.

Prabhupada: No, no. No, why Krsna knows? One who is Krsna's devotee, he knows also.

Dr. Patel: All are Vaisnava devotees, aren't they?

Prabhupada: No, no. This is Mayavada. Not all of.

Dr. Patel: Accha. Vallabhacarya's devotees, Vaisnavas are not...?

Prabhupada: Vallabhacarya is a sampradaya.

Dr. Patel: But are they not Vaisnavas?

Prabhupada: That is a sampradaya. Visnusvami sampradaya. That is accepted. That is accepted.

Dr. Patel: Ramanujacarya's Vaisnava was not Vaisnava?

Prabhupada: Oh yes.

Dr. Patel: Then why do you say so? They are all Vaisnavas but...

Prabhupada: But Ramanujacarya does not say that the devotee is God.

Dr. Patel: Nobody says so.

Prabhupada: No. (break) ...oneness with diversity. Yes. That is visistadvaita philosophy. And nirvisesa. Nirvisista-advaitavadi sankhya philosophy. Nirvisista.

Guest (1): Nirvisista means?

Dr. Patel: Vallabhacarya.

Prabhupada: Nirvisista means... No, Vallabhacarya... suddhadvaita. Suddhadvaita. That is called kevaladvaita. Kevaladvaita. (break) Krsna is adi. Visnu is in the material world, He's accepted as one of the devas. Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. So Krsna says, aham adir hi devanam.

Guest (1): So Krsna is adi of Visnu...

Prabhupada: Visnu also.

Dr. Patel: Maha-Visnu.

Prabhupada: Yes. No Maha-Visnu is adi. Maha-Visnu is kala-visesa, partial exhibition of Krsna. That is said in the Brahma-samhita. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah, visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-visesah. This Maha-Visnu, from whose breathing innumerable universes are coming, that Maha-Visnu is kala-visesa.

 

yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya

jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah

visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

Hare Krsna. Jaya. (break) From Lord Brahma. Brahma.

Devotee: That was found by Lord Caitanya, Prabhupada? The Brahma-samhita?

Prabhupada: Yes. Some of the manuscripts were found in South India and He brought it and He delivered, that "This is authoritative."

Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact, the Vaisnavism started from South India.

Prabhupada: Even Sankara was also South India.

Dr. Patel: Cult of Vaisnavism started from South India.

Prabhupada: All the acaryas, they came from South India.

Dr. Patel: They are more religious.

Prabhupada: Vallabhacarya also South India.

Dr. Patel: Vallabhacarya is from North, no?

Prabhupada: South India. (break)

Dr. Patel: And the worst damn... (break)

Prabhupada: ...beaches. The sand is like this. Not like that.

Dr. Patel: Like this.

Prabhupada: Yes. This soft sand. But not walking, all sand. This Juhu Beach is specially nice.

Dr. Patel: Made for us. (laughs) (break)

Prabhupada: ...kingdom, the Maharastrian brahmanas, they were more staunch.

Dr. Patel: They did not serve Muslims, like brahmanas who are from Bengal and Gujarat. Gujarati brahmanas and Bengali brahmanas served the Muslims...

Prabhupada: Brahminical culture. Sanatana Gosvami, he was also brahmana, but because he served the Mohammedans, he was rejected from the brahmana society. Then Krsna, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, raised them to the position of gosvamis. Their name was also changed. Dabir Khas.

Dr. Patel: Muslim name.

Prabhupada: Yes, Muslim name.

Dr. Patel: But here in Gujarat we have got so many brahmanas and... (break)

Prabhupada: ...magistrates.

Dr. Patel: Ah, but then these are Muslim brahmanas.

Prabhupada: So it is Muslim name. Their forefathers were magistrates. That's all. Kazi, there is no harm... Munshi, Kazi. They're common... (break) If you go to anyone, "Hare Krsna," they'll understand: "Here is Hare Krsna people." That's all. Hare Krsna. Anywhere, Africa, Australia, Japan, they know, "These are Hare Krsna people." We are known as "Hare Krsna people." So there are so many apartments... (end)

 

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Ash]

4th April 1974 Conversation with Srila Prabhupada:

 

Prabhupada: What is this thing? "Swami Narayan." Narayana is there.

Indian man (4): Narayana is there.

Indian man (2): Swami is their guru and Narayana is God, so both, Prabhupada and Krsna, Prabhupada and Krsna, Prabhupada Krsna...

Prabhupada: But that does not mean they should chant. Just like, we are not instructing our disciples to chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami..." No. They're chanting Hare Krsna. Hari-tvena samasta-sastrair uktah. Guru is respected as good as Krsna, but that does not mean I shall teach them to go and chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami." What is this?

We are teaching, "Chant Hare Krsna." Harer nama, harer nama...

Indian man (3): Prabhupada so much...

Prabhupada: Because he, my disciple respects me as God, that does not mean I'll think I have become God.

Indians: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Hold some meeting, and you are belonging to the, you asked them, "Why you say like this?"

Indian man (4): We are... here I represent them, and you represent...

Prabhupada: No, they're preaching.

Indian man (4): Both are Vaisnavas...

Prabhupada: Just like these boys said.

Indian man (3): (break) ...all difference here, and they have got no difference at all.

Prabhupada: No, no.

Indian man (3): I would not say that...

Prabhupada: I can understand that. That is not difficult.

Indian man (3): Ah?

Prabhupada: So only thing is that why they're preaching against their own principle?

Indian man (4): Eka vasinam tapasa tapa ya bratah... (?)

Prabhupada: That is my point. That is my point. Everything is there for Krsna, but they're chanting "Swami Narayan." Why?

Indian man (4): There are... In Swami Narayan's sampradaya there are...

Indian man (3): (indistinct) ...you have to follow me." (Indians laugh)

Prabhupada: So far we are concerned, Gaudiya Vaisnavas, there is no different conclusion. The conclusion is there. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam.

Indian man (4): That is the right. If you...

Prabhupada: That is wanted. They were saying they are sannyasi,...

Indian man (2): They say like that, but it is not...

Indian man (4): They were small boys, what will they know about it?

Prabhupada: But why they are...

Indian man (3): The boys are taught like this from...

Indian man (4): Those days you must follow.

Prabhupada: No, ramanandi, ramanandi(?)

Indian man (4): These are different.

Prabhupada: They say that they follow... (break) ...impersonal.

Indian man (4): Now, he has given about how brahmanas should do--all this.

Prabhupada: Why you recommended Panca-upasana?

Indian man (4): I don't understand that.

Prabhupada: That is the impersonalist.

Indian man (3): (indistinct) bhakti.

Indian man (4): I don't know... Why...

Prabhupada: No, no, no, no...

Indian man (2): Pancaratra...

Prabhupada: Pancopasanam means that the Absolute Truth is impersonal. You can imagine as person like this. This is pancopasanam. Sadhu kanam hita taya brahmana rupa kalpana, kalpana.(?) "You just imagine one form." But Vaisnava, he's not like that. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah.

Indian man (3): It says in the sastra, Veda ca rasa...

Prabhupada: When the question of sastra comes, shall I read Bhagavad-gita or this?

Indian man (4): All this things should be read together, because they are complimentary to each other. Everybody needs to...

Prabhupada: We have no time to read the complimentary...

Indian man (4): (indistinct)

Prabhupada: ...then what he'll read?

Indian man (4): Tatha srimad-bhagavad-gita iti.

Prabhupada: It is not possible that everyone has to read all the corollaries. The one, main... Bhagavad-gita you read and learn, that I am stressing. That I am stressing.

Indian man (2): That's right.

Indian man (3): Perfectly right, but what I say what he has... Finer points.

Prabhupada: Now you say there are seven branches, and they're preaching in a different way. So how people will understand...?

Indian man (3): Because then those people were reading all so many sastras he narrowed to five. He wanted the Veda you must read, Vyasa-sutra... (break)

Prabhupada: Beginning should be Bhagavad-gita. (break) Pancopasanam. Pancopasanam is not for the Vaisnava.

Indian man (4): Not pancopasa, Pancaratra.

Prabhupada: No, no, Panc... Pancaratra is all right. He has recommended the...

Indian man (4): Ganapati (indistinct)

Prabhupada (4): Ganapati... In the Bhagavad-gita it is not recommended. Mam ekam.

Indian man: Mam ekam saranam vraja.

Prabhupada: So, why (indistinct).

Indian man (4): Don't say this kind of thing--"It is not recommended."

Prabhupada: No, no, no.

Indian man (4): Condemning and not recommending is a different thing. It is not condemned.

Prabhupada: Avidhi-purvakam means condemned. You are doing...

Indian man (4): Sir, my point is this...

Prabhupada: No, no. Avidhi-purvakam, means... Vidhi-purvakam is right. And avidhi-purvakam is wrong. The same example. That one has to supply food to the mouth, and if one thinks "There are so many holes, any hole will do," that is avidhi-purvakam. (break)...recommended that suppose Ganapati worship.

Indian man (4): He did not care much about...

Prabhupada: No. Much or less, that doesn't... There is recommendation.

Indian man (3): Recommendation or not, bhakti like Krsna.

Indian man (4): You are not to do (indistinct).

Prabhupada: What does that mean? Read it again.

Indians: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Yes, mam ekam.

Indian man (4): You have come to our narrow path now. When people divide (indistinct). Because those days were different. When people were (indistinct) on stones.

Prabhupada: No, no, I cannot... A chaste woman, you cannot divide her. She must stick to one husband.

Indian man (4): No, in his time, people were Vaisnavas...

Prabhupada: You cannot, she cannot say, "I can accept as many husband as required." That is not good.

Indian man (4): Two hundred years before. Two hundred years before. (break)

Prabhupada: ...as you worship Durga, then you have to sacrifice goat.

Indian man (4): Ah?

Prabhupada: As soon as you worship Durga...

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Whatever.

Indian man (4): Durga, Siva, Ganapati one family.

Prabhupada: So as soon as you worship Durga you have to follow the rules, you have to make goat sacrifice...

Indian man (4): No, no, no. (indistinct)

Prabhupada: In the Bhagavata it is recommended. In the Bhagavata it is recommended, that when Krsna is asking for Devi to go take birth in the womb of Yasoda, Krsna is inducing that He'll get so many sacrifices. Yes. So that is the (Sanskrit), animal sacrifice.

Indian man (4): Therefore (Sanskrit) ah? Vairagyam neyem aprti sri krsna...(?) He is recommending the fools, the fools who have got no...

Prabhupada: (indistinct) advised to the fools, why the Vedas cannot?

Indian man (4): Vedas they have advised to the fools to (indistinct). But he has advised another fools not to eat it.

Prabhupada: Yes. When you worship Devi, you have to sacrifice goat, then what you will do?

Indian man (4): No, no. (Sanskrit)

Prabhupada: Where this... (break) (kirtana begins) (end)

 

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

Seems His knowledge or experience of the Swaminarayan sect is limited. The very fact that they are mentioning Swami+Narayan as separate entity points to the idea that they are referring to the BAPS sect where the Guru is worshipped - that is mayavad.

In the original, Swaminarayan is one term and Swami behaves as adjective to Narayan - i.e. that Narayan who is Lord (Swami) of all.

 

It seems to me like individuals are looking for reasons to reject the Swaminarayan faith. Quite amusing.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

From what perspective?

[Guest guest]

if its not favourable to Krsna consciousness. To discriminate means you have intelligence, if you accept everything then you can be cheated

[Guest guest]

How about this?

 

1. Form opinion - strongly disagree or refuse to believe

2. Reject any evidence or logic that contradicts opinion

3. Look for any evidence or logic that complies with 1

4. Derive satisfaction from not being wrong

 

Thats all thats been happening on this discussion on both sides.

 

[Guest guest]

Deriving satisfaction can be done when no-one lifts and points a finger at my Lord in the manner which has been done on this board.

 

How unhappy can a follower be from such? My soul is shaken, its state cannot be written in words. Hearing nothing but critisisms of Lord Swaminarayan even when the evidence has been shown which Vyas himself has written with his own right hand and the father of a peacock as a pen.

 

But i will arise and continue to worship My lord like i have never before and pray that O' Swaminarayan, O' Krishna You came down as Nar Narayan incarnate and people do not worship you as such. But the followers taht do are being bought down as fakes. Please make it so that your followers are not hurt in such a way and be happy upon the ones who declare you as not Nar Narayan himself. Forgive them for their Dosh as they too worship you as Shri Krishna as do I as well as with a different name as Swaminarayan. For what you came down for as son of Dharm and Moorti was incredible and indescribable.

 

Bless all.

 

Jay Sawaminarayan

Jay Dwarika Dheesh

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think someone has been watching to many hindi movies

[Guest guest]

God only takes avatar when Vijay says