Thakur Bhaktivinoda in regards to the issue of 'Women and Sannyasa'

[krsna]

has written the following in Shri Chaitanya-shikshamrita 2/4:

 

 

strilokera grihastha ashrama o sthala visheshe vanaprastha vyatita anya kona ashrama svikarya naya. kona asadharana-bhaktisampanna stri vidya, dharma o samarthya labha karatah yadi brahmacharya va sannyasa ashrama grahana kariya saphalya labha kariya thakena va labha karena, taha sadharanataha komala sraddha, komala sharira, komala buddhi stri jatira pakshe vidhi nahe.

 

Translation:

 

"There are no ashramas acceptable by women other then the householder (grihastha) ashrama or in specific cases as per time, place and circumstance the vanaprastha ashrama.

 

Of course there can be some exceptional rare cases when an extraordinary and greatly advanced woman in bhakti can accept the brahmacharya and sannyasa ashramas and make a success of her spiritual life.

 

But in the normal and general case, these ashramas are not meant for women because of their delicate faith, delicate body and delicate intelligence."

[Guest guest]

what would be mother urmila's response to this statement

[Airicky]

Why speculate? Ask her. She is at New Goloka. Anyway, I don't think this has anything to do with her since she is on the list to become diksa guru not sannyasi. You don't have to be sannyasi to be diksa guru in Iskcon.

[Guest guest]

If that is part of the translation he does mention there are exceptions to the rule.

No reason why in 3 billion jivas on this planet in womens bodies their arn't a few with the renunciate and preaching tendancy. There are definately a lot of nuns.

[Airicky]

Yes there are exceptions.

 

Devotees are special souls whether encased in male or female bodies.

[Guest guest]

also it is important o keep in mind that even at the time this was written women werent particularly inclined toward spiritual advancement and krishna conciouss philosphy - only a few .. these were the exceptions back then

 

Srila Prabhupada was suprised that women were taking to KC when he came to america - he had intended to deliver Gita and KC to the learned scholars and important figures of western culture. but here were so many women ready to take up KC.

 

so in relation to this quote that tyhere are exceptions, now is a different place and fifferent time - with So many women taking up KC the once "exceptions" should be growing in number!!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

[Airicky]

Several times Prabhupada mentions that women have softer hearts and are more inclined towards Krishna (God) Consciousness so where did He express surprise at the number of women gravitating towards Krsna?

[suchandra]

"..Surprise at the number of women gravitating towards Krsna..", women gravitating towards Krishna doesnt necessarily mean that such women have to become nuns in a monastery, but rather could be important catalysts for changing material family live into a Krishna centered household. Express of surprise not because of "softer hearts and are more inclined towards Krishna", rather the rare determination of entering a monastic live-style at such young age around 20.

 

[Guest guest]

The Glory of the Divine Feminine Nature

 

Devotee: Maharaj, we know the injunctions forbidding

sannyasis and brahmacaris specifically from mixing with ladies, but what should be the general overall vision of the male section of devotees as we are serving Mahaprabhu's mission together with our Godsisters?

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: According to the varnasrama system,

generally the sudras (laboring class) and ladies are not alloweddirect participation in the higher religious functions. Only indirect participation is allowed for them, and they also do not get the sacred thread. Yet a brahmana boy can be found touching the feet of his mother! The mother will not touch the Deity of Narayana, but her son who is worshiping Narayana is touching her feet and taking her feet-dust. Such a position is there in the varnasrama system. Women are generally considered unfit or below the standard of engaging in direct service to the Lord, but in the Vaisnava conception there is no such strictness about that.

In my youth some sort of disregard grew in my mind about

the lady section - "I must keep far away from them; they are

untouchable." But that notion was amended by my aunt in this

way: She noted my nature, my conduct, and once affectionately remarked to me, "Oh, don't you know that ladies represent Laksmidevi? They belong to the same section, and in them the qualities of sacrifice and submission are very clearly visible, so they should be respected. They should be respected, and the aggressive male nature is to be viewed unfavorably. The feminine

ego-conception is an ideal of a very noble type wherein sacrifice, the devotional aspect, is very prominent. Ladies are not aggressors; they are sacrifice personified. Whereas the malenature - that is aggressive."

Gradually that idea came to me and I learned to appreciate

Sita, Draupadi, and so many others, especially the supreme

example shown by the Gopis. The standard established by the

Gopis has shown that self-forgetfulness, self-sacrifice, and

self-surrendering reaches its zenith, its highest conception, in the lady-aspect. The passive aspect holds the highest position: that viewpoint came gradually and caused a turnabout within my mind.

Madhura-rasa, consorthood, is the highest position, and

within Srimati Radharani we find the greatest degree of sacrifice and affection. The males are the aggressors; they are responsible for all the difficulties and troubles, not the ladies. That we possess the aggressive nature of a male is the disease in us. Gradually that perception developed from inside, and ultimately I found that when the female nature is pure and in connection with the Supreme Lila of Vatsalya-rasa and madhura-rasa, it holds thehighest position in the topmost realm. And our aspiration is for

engagement in the service of Srimati Radharani.

The position of Sri Radha is that of the highest service to

Krsna, and Radha-dasyam has been considered by Mahaprabhu

to be the highest attainment. Vasudeva Ghosa says:

(yadi) gaura na haita, tabe ki haita

kemane dharitam de'

radhara mahima prema-rasa-sima

jagate janata ke?

Who could disclose this holy, divine fact if Sri Gauranga did not personally appear on this Earth? Who could let us know, who could inform us that the highest servitor is Radharani? But Gauranga did come, and He clearly showed that the highest conception of service is to be engaged in the service of that highest, Negative Potency.

[muralidhar_das]

Krsna is raso vai sah, the reservoir of all pleasure, and akhila rasamrta murtih, ecstasy Himself. Krsna's very nature is sweet:

 

madhuram madhuram vapur asya vibhor

madhuram madhuram vadanam madhuram

madhu gandhi mrdu smitam etad aho

madhuram madhuram madhuram madhuram

 

"O, Lord Krsna! The beauty of your transcendental form is sweet, but your beautiful face is even sweeter. The sweet smile on your face, which is like the sweet aroma of honey, is sweeter still."

[suchandra]

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: According to the varnasrama system, generally the sudras (laboring class) and ladies are not allowed direct participation in the higher religious functions. Only indirect participation is allowed for them, and they also do not get the sacred thread...

 

 

In this age of Kali, especially nowadays, men are definitly not more qualified than women, even worse. The problem rather is the chaos in many temples, instead of Matajis being trained as perfect preachers, who are forbidden to get involved in financial affairs, they have to go out and collect. And become in reality, without knowing, members of the vaisya class, although living in a monastary and that what makes matajis in the temple look like inferior. Rupa Goswami condemned that, all the six Goswamis only constructed temples under the condition without getting personally involved in the financial dealings. Srila Prabhupada, NOD, 7/12:

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

We can see in the lives of various acaryas in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu that they are not very enthusiastic about constructing temples. However, if somebody comes forward to offer some service, the same reluctant acaryas will encourage the building of costly temples by such servitors. For example, Rupa Gosvami was offered a favor by Maharaja Mansingh, the commander-in-chief of Emperor Akhbar, and Rupa Gosvami instructed him to construct a large temple for Govindaji, which cost vast amounts of money.

 

So a bona fide spiritual master should not personally take any responsibility for constructing temples, but if someone has money and wants to spend it in the service of Krishna, an acarya like Rupa Gosvami may utilize the devotee's money to construct a nice, costly temple for the service of the Lord. Unfortunately, it happens that someone who is not fit to become a spiritual master may approach wealthy persons to contribute for temple constructions. If such money is utilized by unqualified spiritual masters for living comfortably in costly temples without actually doing any preaching work, this is not acceptable. In other words, a spiritual master needn't be very enthusiastic for constructing temple buildings simply in the name of so-called spiritual advancement. Rather, his first and foremost activity should be to preach. In this connection, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja recommended that a spiritual master print books. If one has money, instead of constructing costly temples, one should spend his money for the publication of authorized books in different languages for propagating the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

http://www.radhadamodarmandir.com/gosvami/index.html#Rupa-Goswami