question on offering food to Krishna through Guru

[vijay]

When we offer food to krishna it is said that we should ask guru to help us. How does the guru actually do this?

 

If the guru is on the planet but not near you and you ask him through a picture to help you offer some food, then when you go to him in person does he know that he helped you? If not then did he actually help you?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Vijay dandvats, they may not know every offering you make but it is offered to him because he is closer to his guru that offers it through parampara to Radha and Krsna. In this way it is designed to understand the ontological system of God and to cultivate our service propensity and our properly adjusted position in that system. We are newbies whereas our divine masters are intimate or more familiar with the seva domain.

An uttama adhikari is constantly passing on everything to Their Lordships ....you wholesale included!

It is also nice to find out what guru likes and offer that because the Lord is pleased in seeing His divine servitor pleased while the guru is pleased in seeing their Lord pleased.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Guru is known as Jiva-tattva, and Krishna is Vishnu-tattva. So how can a Guru accept food like Vijay Prabhu just said? The Guru doesn't know that so and so disicple has offered me food.

 

BUT the Guru gives this food to His own Guru through the chain of disicplic succession, then to Krishna.

 

Still it still doesn't mean the Guru knows about it. So then the next thing would be, we are actually offering food to both Guru and Paramatma within Guru. Is it not? But then it says Guru is the Representative of Paramatma. So can we really be 100% Sure that the Guru doesn't know? Well it says the Guru is ACTING as the representative. So why is it of the utmost importance for the Guru to know if so and so disicple is offering food? Krishna knows you are doing it. I think we should not forget that Guru is also a devotee. By this sort of questioning we are trying to equate Guru with God, which is against our Sampradaya.

 

I saw a post which Krsna Prabhu posted on another thread by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, It says that Guru is achintya, inconcievable. Also Bedha-bedha, one and different from Krishna. So just see hows it immossible to know Guru.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

I don't know about other Gurus, but Srila Prabhupada knows what his disciples and followers are up to. My personal experience has been confirmed by many other devotees I've spoken with. In fact, he directly communicates with them. Offering food to the pure unalloyed devotee is not a theoretical matter, but a real loving exchange.

[Guest guest]

So any disciple that went to Prabhupad when he was present with us and asked what did I offer you for breakfast this morning, Prabhupad could tell them.

"Oh I especially liked that lassie, but go easy on the sweets"

Come on he had apr. 6,000 disciples and endless others who offered to him. He may have connection to the supersoul but he isn't the supersoul.

I agree offering bhoga is a real loving exchange.And it will eventually cultivate a deeper relationship with the spiritual master, and that real gurus can comunicate with their disciples thru the medium of paramatma but it isn't a constant open line.

You may meditate on pleasing guru almost 24/7 and being with him in separation, but that is extremely rare.

[Guest guest]

When we offer food to krishna it is said that we should ask guru to help us

•••different.. we have no relationship with krsna, we have a relationship with the guru, so we offer our devotion expressed in a well cooked and pure food to Him.

 

How does the guru actually do this?

••guru, being a shaktiavesha avatara of sri paramatma is omnipotent, he can do everything

 

If the guru is on the planet but not near you and you ask him through a picture to help you offer some food, then when you go to him in person does he know that he helped you?

••of course he knows,, otherwise what kind of guru he is?

Bhagavad Gita says that we sould surrender to someone who is "tattva darshinah", "seer of the absolute truth, sri krishna". If one knows Krsna automatically he knows everuthing... included the fact that i have today at the 12.30 pm offered some beans, cheese, pasta and salad to him

 

 

[Guest guest]

So this is the acid test to see who is a saktavesh avatara By asking Him what we offered him for his last 6 meals, was it on a banana leaf or a gold dish? What flavour incence?

Which flowers were in their garland? And did you appreciate my fanning.

 

 

All the best finding a satisfactory answer from a saktavesh avatara.

[Guest guest]

So this is the acid test to see who is a saktavesh avatara By asking Him what we offered him for his last 6 meals, was it on a banana leaf or a gold dish?

 

i have not promoted tests.... i have said that if one is "tattva darshinah", knower of the truth.. he's without doubt knower fo the truth.. all the truth

 

but he is also supremely free.. free to not manifest his consciousness to everyone being Him humble, and not everyone ready to hear it without making offences..

 

so we have to reach pure devotion to fully associate with pure devotees

[vijay]

Thanks for all the varied answers, does anyone have any scriptual knowledge of where I can find out? I've read there are 2 types of spirtual master one that can commit mistakes but follows his gurus perfectly, and another who is a self relised spirtual master.

 

In a letter

" The statements of Thakura Bhaktivinode are as good as scriptures because he is liberated person. Generally the spiritual master comes from the group of such eternal associates of the Lord; but anyone who follows the principles of such ever liberated persons is as good as one in the above mentioned group. The gurus from nature's study are accepted as such on the principle that an elevated person in Krishna Consciousness does not accept anyone as disciple, but he accepts everyone as expansion of his guru. That is very high position, called Maha-bhagavata. Just like Radharani, sometimes thinks a subordinate of hers as her teacher, to understand devotion of Krishna. A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession. It is the injunction of the sastras that anyone who sees the Deity in the Temple as made of wood or stone, or considers the acaryas and gurus as ordinary common men, and discriminates Vaisnavas or devotees as belonging to a certain group or caste, are called hellish. "

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

And here srila prabhupada talks about offering food to the guru who offers to krishna then he himself takes.

 

Regarding offering food: The custom is to offer the foodstuff first to the Spiritual Master; we cannot do anything directly. The Spiritual Master accepts the offering on behalf of his disciple, and offers the same to Krishna. After Krishna's eating, the Spiritual Master eats it, and then the devotees take it as Mahaprasada. This is the system. Everything is offered to the Spiritual Master first, with the prayer "Nama Om Visnupadaya . . ."

If, in the cooking process, food falls on the floor, if it is raw and can be washed nicely, then it can be offered. But if it is prepared and cannot be washed, then it is not to be offered, but can be eaten rather than be wasted.

 

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

So can the self relised guru know if a devotee is offering food with love and devotion? If he doesnt know then how does the spirtual master in turn offer the food to krishna then eats it himself?

 

if mystic yogis can know peoples thoughts remotely and even implant them amongst other things then shouldnt the self relised soul also be aware of what his diciples are doing? (or he may totaly rely on krishna and not use any omnipotency he has?)

 

I can understand him not knowing if he is a spirtual master in the second category of following perfectly the instructions of the previous acrayas but not being fully relised.

 

Or am I getting this all wrong? Is it not supposed to be taken as literal and more of a relationship and humility building process?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Vijay Prabhu, Re;Omnipotency, certain mystics can be in different places simultaneously but unlike the supreme Mystic they can't reciprocate especially with infinite or even thousands of souls at the same time.

Pure Devotees have no interest in any of the mystic siddhis or magicians tricks even up to having a form similar to Krsna, but that doesn't mean they are not endowered with them. Their undivided interest is in serving their Lord and master, if the eight principal mystic siddhis are utilized it will only ever be in relation to their service. Unless one is in a position of the Demigods such a nature is not so nessacary.

 

"So can the self relised guru know if a devotee is offering food with love and devotion? If he doesnt know then how does the spirtual master in turn offer the food to krishna then eats it himself?

 

The self realized guru will automaticly know by their disciples spiritual nature what degree of love and devotion they have, generally the offering of the aspiring neophyte disciple will be less than pure but if offered with sincerity their offering becomes purified as it is passed up the line thru a genuine Guruvarga, with practice and perseverance it will become perfect. The spiritual master knows we are making offerings, but not every detail, and they arn't just waiting in the morning for 3000 offerings to come in they do have their own practicing life, except perhaps in some exceptional cases, where extra attention is focussed on one specific disciple. Otherwise there would be no nessacity for the disciple to spend time in the physical presence of their guru, as he would know everything and paramatma would do everything, negating even the need for a guru.

If this were a fact then it stands that Srila Prabhupad did nothing to correct the heinous activities he wittnessed his disciples doing with his mystic omnipotency.

Krsna protects His devotees from wittnessing so much unnessacary excessive detail.

 

"If mystic yogis can know peoples thoughts remotely and even implant them amongst other things then shouldnt the self relised soul also be aware of what his diciples are doing? (or he may totaly rely on krishna and not use any omnipotency he has?)

 

Yes, but not everything, they may catch grimpses thru flashes of thoughts like intuitive picturegrams or dreams. But if you are progressing steadily they will be happy to hear from you and see you on occasion and let your progress take it's natural course in separation, or in some fortunate cases they may not be able to bear your absence and call you into their physical company to do super personal seva.

 

"I can understand him not knowing if he is a spirtual master in the second category of following perfectly the instructions of the previous acrayas but not being fully relised."

 

Supposedly Sai Baba, Guru Nanak and others can exibit some of these siddhis and place more emphasis on them from what I've heard Vijay, but what value ultimately are such powers

if they don't lead to loving Krsna.

The Mahabhagavats can undoubtedly communicate thru Caitya Guru in the heart of various jivas of this manifest creation. Whatsmore there are many variables in these master disciple relations.

I and many others consider my guru on the topmost platform of God realization, but that didn't stop him from asking where various disciples were at various times of the day or how their welfare was or who was in his company, as his eyes failed in his older age.

 

[vijay]

So when krishna allows through paramatma does the guru become aware of what he needs to be aware of.

 

So most of the time offering to the guru is not supposed to be taken as literal and more of a relationship and humility building process as the guru is not actually offering the food to krishna as the guru is unaware of it taking place?

 

Is this the correct understanding?

[Guest guest]

"I and many others consider my guru on the topmost platform of God realization, but that didn't stop him from asking where various disciples were at various times of the day or how their welfare was or who was in his company, as his eyes failed in his older age."

 

it is not that Guru maharaja has difficulties... Guru Maharaja is simply manifesting a pastime to be in the need of the help of disciples

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

So when krishna allows through paramatma does the guru become aware of what he needs to be aware of.

••there's no need.. simply the guru and the paramatma share the same knowledge

 

So most of the time offering to the guru is not supposed to be taken as literal and more of a relationship and humility building process as the guru is not actually offering the food to krishna as the guru is unaware of it taking place?

••guru has no ignorance.. if he has even a little he's not guru. Prabhupada many times said that "almost pure" means "not pure". So guru sees everything.. there's many examples of it in the byographies of all maha bhagavatas

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

By all means Vijay we should try to cultivate the consciousness whereby we feel the merciful presence of our master in all we do, and all we see, for if we have a connection with a Guru that is Uttama adhikari then naturally they will be side by side with the Lord in His nitya lila.

And from our side we should be trying to cultivate our lives as if we are living with our guru even tho we may be light years or thousands of kilometres apart. Still we have to adjust to vipralamba from guru just as we do with the Lord which is really the highest prayojana understanding of Krsna consciousness.

 

Of course the spiritual master will become aware of what he needs to know, but he is not always following every move you make like closed circuit video surveilance. It's just that we should live our lives like our guru is with Paramatma like an eye in the sky, always looking over us, careing and directing our movements towards the cherished goal.

 

This example of Raghunath das Goswami by Srila Sridhara Maharaj gives some insight into this:

 

Raghunatha Dasa Goswami has said, "In the absence of my gurudeva, Govardhana hill, the representation of Krsna Himself, seems to me just like a big python coming to devour me. And Radha-kunda, the holiest place of divinity of the Gaudiya-sampradaya, seems like a tiger's mouth coming to devour me. They are giving me so much excitement in the absence of my gurudeva, my dearest and highest spiritual guardian. My gurudeva, who has the most intense affection for me is not here? How can it be? Everything is void. All has vanished with his departure." Such a deep sense of separation will come in the heart of a sincere disciple.

 

How is it possible for the acharya of our highest aspiration in KC to feel like his guru has left him? That guru is not there. When Srila Rupa Goswami made ecstatic sweetrice for Srila Sanatan whom he regarded as his guru, once in Braja dham and the ingredients were supplied by Srimate Thakurani Herself. Sanatan didn't immediately know because he was Omnipotent, he had to deduce by going to the village where the ingredients came from that this offering came from the hands of Sri Radha Herself. Of course this doesn't diminuish the potency of such Gurus. Their glories are all worshipable.

If all pure devotees were omnipresent they could superimpose on the most intimate confidential pastimes of the Lord, and that isn't the case some have access while others are serving from a distance, designed thru the will of Krsna.

 

Also many other examples of Lord Brahma, Shiva etc. all pure mahabhagavats but they are at times temporarily forgetful that Krsna is Swayam Bhagavan, so how is this possible if they are constantly connected to omnipotence, surely they must be aware of the source of all omnipotence.

 

What I'm tring to say is that we should be careful not to misinterpret what our mind may be telling us,

whether our offerings are accepted or not that should'nt deterr us from continually trying to attract the pleasing glance of our gurudev. Unconditional service is our life, and we don't wish to test our gurus power, we are satisfied with his boundless mercy and affection, whether he sees us or not, that is not our business, rather we should just continue to do those things that attract his attention. Theist told on another thread that vaisnavas love God because they love God He is all attractive, similarly we serve Guru because they are all merciful we are not attracted to their powers or their knowledge.

And the practice of our sadhana bhakti will eventually, by the grace of Guru and Gauranga, become raganuga bhakti.

 

The guru is offering his disciples and their seva to Krsna wholesale. Not only does he offer the leaf or flower but he offers the garden, the gardener, the energy of the gardener, and the love of gardening for the Lord. And he is truly appreciative of the tiniest contribution, in helping serve his own guru, furthermore on a deeper level he is serving his disciple.

[Guest guest]

Regardless of all this Prabhu if you have a connection to Guru then perhaps you should referr to him personally what his take on your question is, as that is the relationship you are dealing with and his view may conflict with others friendly advice, as well meaning as they may be.

[vijay]

Thank you for that answer it makes sense, I guess its more about the conciousness that we cant do anything directly without the mercy of the vaishnava rather than 'is he actually hearing me'

[Guest guest]

When every thing is of God howcan one offer food toHIM,One can only offer willand surender to God.That is self. Allother offers are nulland void as they do not belong to the offerey.

[Guest guest]

you want to offer everything.... but not your food!!

 

funny!!