Christ Consciousness

[theist]

Christ Consciousness is a term that like Krsna Consciousness gets used with different meanings attached depending on the point of view of the speaker.

 

Often the term is abused as in "Krsna cosciousness, Christ consciousness, Buddha consciousness... it all really refers to the same state of impersonal being and etc."

 

I see a difference between how the term Christ consciousness is used by Vaisnavas who I accept as having it right.

 

One meaning is that the jivas who are serving or learning to serve Lord Jesus Christ and Krsna (Father) under His instruction need to be fixated on learning and applying instructions and need to conscious of Jesus constantly to take His shelter. Just as one may be said to be always meditating on their own guru and satisfying him as they try to implement his instructions.

 

Another meaning for Christ consciousness is to "take on the mind of Christ" as the Bible instructs. How is this different from what is already described? Because Christ was not always meditating on how to satisfy himself. He was instead totally fixed on satisfying Krsna.

 

So to take on the "mind of Christ" is to become Krsna conscious as He was.

 

I try to use the term Christ consciousness in these two ways which are really one when fully developed, just different angles which are not in anyway contradicatory.

 

So in this way I see advising someone who has budding attraction and faith in Christ to continue and strengthen that. In this way by asking others to be Christ conscious I am really also asking them to be Krsna conscious while understanding the different positions held by Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva rather then trying to impose my conception of what Krsna consciousness is upon them. For too often that conception I may want to impose is mixed with sectarian misunderstanding and feelings.

 

I often get accused of trying to mix the Christian relion with the Hindu religion but really I have no interest in either one.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

You need Christ [Guru] but don't forget Gauranga. Please!

[gHari]

Christ Consciousness is the consciousness recommended by Jesus of Nazareth. That is, do not worry about what you will eat or wear, for God knows you need such things; instead seek only the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

 

The Kingdom of God is at hand. Seek ye first the Kingdom. Do not run here and there to find the Kingdom; for the Kingdom is within.

 

Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, with all thy strength. And love thy brother as thine self.

 

Surrender (on earth as it is in heaven) and love of God - these two things are Christ Consciousness, Krsna Consciousness, perfection.

 

Over and over again throughout the land, the GOOD NEWS of the Kingdom of God, the Gospel of Christ was stressed:<blockquote>Luke 4:43 But he [Jesus] said to them, `I must tell the good news to the people in other towns also. It is the news of God's Kingdom. <font color="BLUE">I was sent to tell this.'</font>

 

Matthew 3:2 He said, `Stop doing wrong things and turn back to God! The Kingdom of heaven is almost here.'

 

Matthew 4:17 From then on, Jesus began to tell God's word to the people. He said, `Stop your wrong ways and turn back to God! The Kingdom of heaven is here!'

 

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went all around through Galilee. He taught people in their meeting houses and told them the good news about the Kingdom of heaven. He healed all the sick and weak people.

 

Matthew 5:3 He said, `God makes happy those who know that they need him. The Kingdom of heaven is for them.

 

Matthew 5:10 `God makes happy those who have trouble for doing what is right. The Kingdom of heaven is for them.

 

Matthew 5:19 So anyone who does not obey one of the smallest laws, and teaches other people not to obey it, will have the smallest part in the Kingdom of heaven. But any one who obeys and teaches the law, will have a big part in the Kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 5:20 I tell you, you must do much better than the scribes and Pharisees. If you do not, then you will never go into the Kingdom of heaven.'

 

Matthew 6:10 "May your Kingdom come. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

 

Matthew 6:13 "Do not test us but help us, so that no one will make us do wrong. Deliver us from the evil one. The Kingdom and power and praise belong to you for ever. Amen!"

 

Matthew 6:33 `Work first for God's Kingdom and what he calls good. Then you will have all these things also.

 

Matthew 7:21 `Some people say to me, "Lord, Lord". But not all who say that will go into the Kingdom of heaven. Only those who do what my Father in heaven wants, will go in.

 

Matthew 8:11 I tell you, many people will come from the east and from the west. They will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 9:35 Jesus went around to all the cities and towns. He taught people in their meeting houses and told them the good news of the Kingdom of heaven. He healed all the sick and weak people.

 

Matthew 10:7 As you go, tell people that the Kingdom of heaven is here.

 

Matthew 11:11

`I tell you the truth. No one has ever been born who is greater than John the Baptizer. And yet the smallest one in the Kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

 

Matthew 11:12

From the time of John until now, people try hard to break into the Kingdom of heaven. And strong people take hold of it.

 

Matthew 12:26

If Satan drives out Satan, he fights against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? But if I drive out bad spirits by God's Spirit, then God's Kingdom is here with you now.

 

Matthew 13:11

Jesus answered them, `You can learn the secret things about the Kingdom of heaven. But they cannot learn them.

 

Matthew 13:19

`People listen to the message about the Kingdom of heaven. If anyone does not understand it, the devil comes along and takes the message out of his heart. That person is like the seed which fell on the road.

 

Matthew 13:24

Jesus told the people another story. He said, `The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A man sowed good seed in his field.

 

Matthew 13:31

Jesus told the people another story. He said, `The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A man took a mustard seed and planted it in his field.

 

Matthew 13:33

Jesus told them another story. He said, `The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A woman took yeast and mixed it with many cups of flour. The yeast went all through the flour.'

 

Matthew 13:38

The field is the world. The good seed means the people who belong to the Kingdom. The weeds mean those who belong to the bad one.

 

Matthew 13:41

The Son of Man will send his angels. They will gather everything that is bad and the people who do bad things. They will take them out of his Kingdom.

 

Matthew 13:43

Then the people who are right with God will shine like the sun in their Father's Kingdom. Everyone who has ears, listen.'

 

Matthew 13:44

`The Kingdom of heaven is like this. Something worth a lot of money is buried in a field. A man found it and covered it again. He was so glad that he went and sold everything he had. Then he bought that field.'

 

Matthew 13:45

`The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A trader was looking for fine stones called pearls.

 

Matthew 13:47

`The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A fish net was thrown into the sea. It caught all kinds of fish.

 

Matthew 13:52

Then Jesus said to them, `So anyone who knows the law and has learned about the Kingdom of heaven, is like the headman of a house. He can bring both new things and old things out of what he has stored up.'

 

Matthew 16:19

I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of heaven. What you tie on earth will be tied in heaven. What you set free on earth will be set free in heaven.'

 

Matthew 16:28

I tell you the truth. Some people are standing here who will not die before they see the Son of Man come in his Kingdom.'

 

Matthew 18:1

The disciples came to Jesus at that time. They said, `Who is the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven?'

 

Matthew 18:3

He said, `I tell you the truth. If your hearts do not change and become like hearts of children, you will never go into the Kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 18:4

So anyone who feels himself small like this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 18:23

`In that way the Kingdom of heaven is like this. A king was ready to finish his business with his servants.

 

Matthew 19:12

Some men cannot marry because they were born that way. Some were made that way by men. Others said, "I will not marry, for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven." `Anyone who can do this, should do it.'

 

Matthew 19:14

But Jesus said, `Let the children come to me. Do not try to stop them. The Kingdom of heaven belongs to people like them.'

 

Matthew 19:23

Then Jesus said to his disciples, `I tell you the truth. It is very hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 19:24

And I tell you this also. It is easier for a big animal like a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.'

 

Matthew 20:1

The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A man owned a farm. Early in the morning he went out to look for men to work on his farm.

 

Matthew 20:21

Jesus asked, `What do you want me to do for you?' The woman said, `These are my two sons. Promise that in your Kingdom one may sit at your right and the other at your left.'

 

Matthew 21:31

Which of the two sons did what his father wanted him to do?' They said, `The first one.' Then Jesus said, `I tell you the truth. The tax collectors and women who commit adultery by selling their bodies, are going into the Kingdom of God ahead of you.

 

Matthew 21:43

`So I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you. It will be given to the people who do what they should do in it.

 

Matthew 22:2

He said, `The Kingdom of heaven is like this. A king made a wedding for his son.

 

Matthew 23:13

`You scribes and Pharisees will have trouble. You are not true to yourselves! You shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven so people cannot go in. You yourselves do not go in, and you stop those who were going in.

 

Matthew 24:14

This good news about the Kingdom will be told in all the world. The people in all countries must know about it. And then the end will come.'

 

Matthew 25:1

Then the Kingdom of heaven will be like this. Ten young women took their lamps and went to meet a man who was being married.

 

Matthew 25:14

`The Kingdom of heaven will be like the time a man went to a country far away. He called his servants and put them in charge of his money.

 

Matthew 25:34

Then the King will say to those who are at his right side, "Come! My Father has blessed you. The Kingdom was made ready for you when the world was first made. Come into it now.

 

Matthew 26:29

I tell you this. I will not drink any of the juice of the fruit of the vine again, until I drink some of it new with you in my Father's Kingdom.'

 

Mark 1:14

John was put in prison. Then Jesus went to Galilee. He told people the good news of God's Kingdom.

 

Mark 1:15

`The time has come,' he said. `The Kingdom of God is here. Stop your wrong ways, turn back to God and believe the good news.'

 

Mark 4:11

He said to them, `You can learn the secret things about the Kingdom of God. But we must use stories to tell the other people.

 

Mark 4:26

And Jesus said, `The Kingdom of God is like this. A man sows some seed in the ground.

 

Mark 4:30

And Jesus said, `What is the Kingdom of God like? What shall I say it is like?

 

Mark 6:23

He made a promise which he would not break. He said, `Anything that you ask me for I will give you, even if you ask me for half of my Kingdom.'

 

Mark 9:1

Jesus said to them, `I tell you the truth. Some people are standing here who will not die before they see the Kingdom of God come with power.'

 

Mark 9:47

If your eye makes you do wrong, take it out. It is better for you to go into God's Kingdom with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

 

Mark 10:15

I tell you the truth. If anyone does not believe in the Kingdom of God like a child, he will never go in.'

 

Mark 10:23

Then Jesus looked around at his disciples and said to them, `It is very hard for rich people to enter the Kingdom of God.'

 

Mark 10:24

The disciples were surprised at his words. But Jesus said again, `Children, it is very hard for people who trust in riches to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

Mark 10:25

It is easier for a big animal to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.'

 

Mark 11:10

God bless the Kingdom of our father David which is coming. Praise him in heaven!'

 

Mark 12:34

Jesus saw that the scribe was wise. So he said to him, `You are not far from the Kingdom of God.' After that everyone feared to ask him any more questions.

 

Mark 14:25

I tell you the truth. I will not drink any of the fruit of the vine again until I drink some of it new in the Kingdom of God.'

 

Mark 15:43

Joseph of Arimathaea was a member of the court. He was a good man. He also was looking for the Kingdom of God. He was not afraid, but went to Pilate and asked him for Jesus' body.

 

Luke 4:43

But he said to them, `I must tell the good news to the people in other towns also. It is the news of God's Kingdom. I was sent to tell this.'

 

Luke 6:20

Jesus looked at his disciples and said, `God will make happy you who are poor. The Kingdom of God is for you.

 

Luke 7:28

I tell you, no one has ever been born who is greater than John. And yet, the smallest one in the Kingdom of God is greater than he.'

 

Luke 8:1

Soon after this, Jesus went through the cities and towns. He told the people God's word about the good news of the Kingdom of God. The twelve disciples were with him.

 

Luke 8:10

He said to them, `You can learn the secret things about the Kingdom of God. But other people must have stories. They will look, but they will not see. They will hear, but they will not understand.'

 

Luke 9:2

He sent them out to tell people about the Kingdom of God and to heal sick people.

 

Luke 9:11

But the people found out and they followed him. He was glad to see them and talked to them about God's Kingdom. He healed those who were sick.

 

Luke 9:27

I tell you the truth. Some people are standing here who will not die before they see the Kingdom of God.'

 

Luke 9:60

Jesus said to him, `Let those who are dead bury their own dead people. As for you, go and tell people about God's Kingdom.'

 

Luke 9:62

Jesus said to him, `Any person who starts doing something and then keeps looking back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.'

 

Luke 10:9

Heal the sick people in the town. Tell the people, "The Kingdom of God has come to you."

 

Luke 10:11

Say to the people, "We wipe off even the dust of the town that is on our feet. This will be a sign to you. But remember this, the Kingdom of God has come."

 

Luke 11:2

Jesus said, `When you talk with God, say, "Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come.

 

Luke 11:18

If Satan fights against himself, how will his kingdom stand? You say I drive out bad spirits by the help of Beelzebub. But if I drive out bad spirits by the help of God, then know this, God's Kingdom is here with you now.

 

Luke 12:31

But work for God's Kingdom. Then you will have all these things also.'

 

Luke 12:32

`Do not fear, little family. Your Father wants to give the Kingdom to you.

 

Luke 13:18

He went on to say, `What is the Kingdom of God like? What shall I say it is like?

 

Luke 13:20

Then Jesus said again, `What else is the Kingdom of God like?

 

Luke 13:28

`You will see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God. And you will see yourselves thrown out. Then you will cry and make a noise with your teeth.

 

Luke 13:29

People will come from the east, from the west, from the north, and from the south. They will sit down to eat in the Kingdom of God.

 

Luke 14:15

One of those who was sitting at the table heard this. He said, `Happy is the person who will eat in the Kingdom of God!'

 

Luke 16:16

`The Law and the Prophets gave God's word until John came. Since then, the good news of God's Kingdom has been told. And now everyone tries hard to get into the Kingdom.

 

Luke 17:20

The Pharisees asked Jesus, `When will the Kingdom of God come?' He answered them, `You cannot see the Kingdom of God when it comes.

 

Luke 17:21

People will not be able to say, "Look, here it is!" or "There it is! That is because the Kingdom of God is inside you.'

 

Luke 18:16

But Jesus called them to him and said, `Let the children come to me. Do not try to stop them. The Kingdom of God belongs to people like them.

 

Luke 18:17

I tell you the truth. If anyone does not believe in the Kingdom of God like a child, he will never go in.'

 

Luke 18:24

Jesus looked at him and said, `It is very hard for rich people to enter the Kingdom of God!

 

Luke 18:25

It is easier for a big animal like a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.'

 

Luke 18:30

Jesus said to them, `I tell you the truth. If any man has left his house, or his wife, or his brothers, or his father, or his mother, or his children for the sake of the Kingdom of God, he will receive many times as much as he has left. He will receive that in this world. And in the next world he will live for ever.'

 

Luke 19:11

While they were listening to this, he started to tell them a story. He did so because they were near Jerusalem and the people thought that the Kingdom of God would begin right away.

 

Luke 21:31

It is the same way when you see all these things happening. You will know that the Kingdom of God is near.

 

Luke 22:16

I tell you this. I will not eat it again until the great feast in the Kingdom of God.'

 

Luke 22:18

I tell you this. I will not drink from the fruit of the vine again until the Kingdom of God comes.'

 

Luke 22:30

You will eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom. You will sit on chief chairs or thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel.'

 

Luke 23:51

He had not wanted the people to do what they did. He was looking for the Kingdom of God. He was from a town of the Jews, called Arimathea.

 

John 3:3

Jesus said, `I tell you the truth. No person can see God's Kingdom if he is not born again.'

 

John 3:5

Jesus said, `I tell you the truth. This new birth is by water and by the Spirit. No person can enter God's Kingdom if he has not been born that way.

 

Acts 1:3

In many ways he proved to them that he was living again after his terrible death. For forty days they often saw him. Then he told them things about God's Kingdom.

 

Acts 1:6

When they had come together, the apostles asked Jesus, `Lord, are you now going to set up the Kingdom of Israel?'

 

Acts 8:12

But Philip came and told them about God's Kingdom and the name of Jesus Christ. The people believed him. Then both men and women were baptised.

 

Acts 14:22

They talked to the disciples to help them. They told them to keep on believing. They said, `We must go through much trouble to get into God's Kingdom.'

 

Acts 20:25

I know that you all will never see me again. I have told you about God's Kingdom.

 

Acts 28:23

So they chose a certain day. On that day many of them came to the house where Paul was staying. He told them about God's Kingdom. He tried to make them understand about Jesus by the things that were written in the law of Moses and in the books of the prophets. He talked from morning until evening.

 

Acts 28:31

He told them about God's Kingdom and taught them about the Lord Jesus Christ. He did this freely without fear. No one stopped him.

 

Romans 14:17

The Kingdom of God is not about what a person eats and drinks. But it is about living in a way which is right with God. It is peace. It is joy because a person has the Holy Spirit.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9

Do you not know that bad people will have no part in the Kingdom where God rules? Do not be fooled. There are some people who will not have part in that place. They are those who commit adultery of any kind, those who have idols, or steal, or are always wanting more, or talk wrong things about people, or drink plenty of strong drink, or take things by force, or curse.

 

1 Corinthians 15:50

Now I tell you, my brothers, our bodies of flesh and blood can have no place in the Kingdom where God rules. A body which will die can have no room in the Kingdom of God where people will never die. 51,

 

Galatians 5:21

They want what other people have. They even kill. They drink too much strong drink. They like to take part in loud drinking and dancing. They do other things like these. I have told you before and I tell you again. Those who do these things will not be in the Kingdom of God. 22,

 

Ephesians 5:5

You know this. There are people who use sex wrongly, and who are always wanting what others have. No such a person has any place in the Kingdom of Christ and of God. He is worshipping an idol.

 

Colossians 1:13

He has set us free from the kingdom where it is dark. And he has put us into the Kingdom where his dear Son rules.

 

1 Thessalonians 2:12

We told you to live to please God. He called you to his own Kingdom and greatness.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:5

This proves that God will judge right. And he will say that you are good enough for the Kingdom of God because you suffer for it.

 

2 Timothy 4:18

The Lord will save me from every wrong thing. He will bring me safely into the Kingdom of heaven. Praise him for ever and ever. Yes, he will!

 

James 2:5

Listen, my dear brothers. God has chosen people who are poor in this world. They believe very much. They will have a place in the Kingdom which he has promised to give to those who love him.

 

 

VERSE CONTEXT REFERENCE: http://www.biblegateway.com

</blockquote>

 

MARK 4 .......... If any man have ears to hear, let him hear:<blockquote>

And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

 

For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

 

And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

 

And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

 

For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

 

But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.

 

And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?

 

It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

 

But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

 

And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

 

But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. </blockquote>

 

[gHari]

Srila Prabhupada describes the care of the bhakti creeper much like Christ does here in Luke 8:<blockquote>

After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

 

While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up. Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown."

 

When he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.

 

"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop". </blockquote>

[Guest guest]

Why? Why? Why?

 

Why is it that devotees from Christian backgrounds mix their former beliefs with their new Gaudiya beliefs....much nonsense is written trying fit to Jesus and his teachings into Gaudiya vaisnavism. They are like chalk and cheese. I have rejected my Christian background wholesale.

 

Christianity is, as Bhaktivinoda says, a meat eaters' religion, not eternal and not vedic.

 

 

NO TEMPLES in Vrndavan have pictures of Jesus on thier altars.

 

I don't care what the bible says....and Gaudiyas shouldn't either....

 

[Guest guest]

Post deleted by Admin5

[theist]

Polytheist hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism is what is truly. Or some moronics thinking God is Indian much like some Jews think of the Lord as the big Jew in the sky.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Polytheist hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism is what is truly.

 

 

What this sentence is trying to say is unclear.

 

 

Or some moronics thinking God is Indian much like some Jews think of the Lord as the big Jew in the sky.

 

 

God being Indian is not a part of any of the sad-darsanas, what to speak of any school of Vedanta. While we are on that note, neither is Jesus worship.

 

Of course, it is unfortunate that some so-called Vaishnavas object to Krishnaite descriptions of God as "Indian." It seems to me that this is the new trend in the avante-garde Vaishnavism of the West... to label anything associated with Vedic culture as merely "Indian" or "Hindu," and thus merely one among many other equally valid paths. I note that this trend is especially prominent in among ISKCON leaders, but not amongst ISKCON's founder-acarya.

 

In answer to the original guest's question, why do iskcon people like to play mix-and-match? The answer is that iskcon's founder acarya is no longer personally present to correct them. So who cares what he thinks?

[gHari]

No. What is sad is the stupidity of such critics. They will send the whole world to hell because they lack any compassion. I do not accept them as Vaishnavas; they are simply poseurs, jihad terrorists. They can't see religion beyond their own idiom of cute cult trappings. For them it will all remain simply words in a book from which to build their egos, as Krsna becomes just another ornament on their mantles.

 

Such dull-witted and dull-hearted armchair quarterbacks should never hold any opinions. They somehow place themselves as superior to Jesus Christ, yet what have they done to awaken the world to the transcendence, what miracles have they wrought, where are their disciples?

 

I will wager that the foolish critic trying to lift his ego onto Srila Bhaktivinoda's coat tails has absolutely no idea what Christ taught, who he was or even what is the Kingdom of God. Another such clever fool tried to institute a debate and even after being told what these things are, still began fighting straw dogs. Leave us out of your mental masturbation, wannabe jnani-muni poseur. Get beyond the words, then come back. Until then you are simply a disgrace to your costume.

 

Such critics seem always ready to insult Srila Prabhupada, calling him a diplomatic liar when he lavishes praise and adoration on Lord Jesus. What could possibly prompt such arrogance and malice? Is it that Prabhupada does not understand sanatana-dharma as well as their clever clever minds? I quite think not. I have heard those words of Srila Prabhupada - the devotion and respect he offers to Jesus Christ is no sham. The only sham is in the stubborn refusal of his 'followers' to follow his glorious example.

 

No one will ever convince a real Christian that Christ's words are nonsense. You were a poor Christian, just as you are a poor Vaishnava. The problem is not with the glove, Mickey Mantle Mouse.

 

[Guest guest]

Whenever Vaishnavas need financial and legal help, they count on polytheist hindus, cuz their beloved 'monotheist christian' friends refuse to help 'cow-worshipping' vaishnava heathens. How tragic!

[theist]

>>>"Polytheist hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism is what is truly. "

 

What this sentence is trying to say is unclear.<<<

 

 

 

I see what you mean.Bad structure. Here is a corrected version.

 

What I find truly strange is polytheistic hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism.

[theist]

I have no desire to sit and trade insults. I am dying and can't afford it.

[Guest guest]

I pity you folks. Christians call you heathens and you bend over backwards to please them. Hindus help you whenever christian and muslim fanatics attack you, and yet you ridicule them. Whatever happened to gratitude? It truly is the kali yuga.

[Guest guest]

 

I see what you mean.Bad structure. Here is a corrected version.

 

What I find truly strange is polytheistic hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism.

 

 

Theist

 

Are you saying that Vaishnavism is an artificial extrapolation of Demi-God worship ?

[theist]

 

Are you saying that Vaishnavism is an artificial extrapolation of Demi-God worship ?

 

 

No just the opposite. Many "hindus" try to bring Vaisnavism down to the level of demi-god worship. But Vaisnavism is the natural mood of the awakened soul when in Love with Krsna. It is transcendental to demi-god worship in every respect and independent of it.

[matadevi]

There is nothing impersonal about Abba our Heavenly Father, that what we Christians, catholics, believers, and messianic jews believe and are conscious of...Abba ''daddy'' ! our spiritual Heavenly Daddy in heaven. and saying Yahaveh Jehovah Jira , our providing Father in heaven is the same as sri Krsna, makes for a two faced god, and not the true and living God, our Father in is in Heaven! and Christ loka is right here on bharata varsa! thats right! the Christ will reclaim the earth! sorry theist prabu!

[Guest guest]

"There is nothing impersonal about Abba our Heavenly Father"

 

it is very impersonalist.. a god who needs to wear a human body with flesh and blood and to die in the cross to understand the human suffering.. a so weak god, that an human works better than him

 

even advaita vedanta is more advanced, brahman does not need to become human to be in the reality of the creatures, to live their life..

 

so if we start examining carefully, christianism is mayavadi... nihilism..

 

for this reason we pray prabhupada with

 

"..nirvishesa sunnyavadi paschatya desha..." .. he come to save western countries from nihilism and voidism

 

 

[theist]

From impersdonalism and voidism.

 

Krishna has diverse energies. I don't see Christ's teaching as impersonal but I see modern Christian teaching as a mix of theism and Sankara's panchopasana. The idea that God became Jesus to experience human life and reclaim the lost souls and then returned to being God. It is a confused presentation.

 

Christ taught "I and the Father are oneThe Father is greater than I". This is also Lord Caitanya's teaching. Simultaneously one and different.

[Gauracandra]

I'm not Christian, but I do think devotees often have an overly simplistic view of Christian theology. Perhaps this is due to the overly Protestant presentation of Christianity in America. Yet, when I read Catholic writings I am always very impressed at its depth in symbolism and metaphor.

 

I'll give an example of what I mean by overly simplistic. Devotees will often say "Oh, you Christians will just go and sin and then go to confession to absolve yourself." This really is a shallow view of what is happening. Most Catholics don't go to confession, so those that do aren't doing it as some sort of posturing. Catholicism starts with the fact of sin. We all sin. Confession is a way of airing those sins, to get them out of our heart so that it doesn't stagnate and corrupt us further. It is a form of repentence. Protestants (to a large degree) don't practice confession as they have done away with priests. This lack of confession has created a very impenitent culture. You notice this especially in America (which is a Protestant nation with Catholics living in it). America never looks back at its sins, it always looks forward to tomorrow. This is a very Protestant approach (always being positive looking, never being self-critical).

 

How many devotees honestly confess their own sins. It takes great courage to do it to a priest. But how many actually look at their own faults and ask for forgiveness? So who are Hare Krishna devotees to criticize a Catholic who goes to confession? You sin. They sin. They go to confession for repentence. Do you? You may say "Yes but then they go on sinning." That may be true. But you too go on sinning but don't repent. So who is the better? Do you have lust, greed, anger in your heart?

 

The Christian metaphor is one that places Christ as a symbol of humanity. He carries his burden along the Via Dolorosa (the path of sorrows) as we carry our burden (our humanity and frailty) through life). Catholics believe that the suffering of innocence naturally provokes a spiritual awakening in the heart. This creates a unity in the world. To them only God was completelly pure that he could create a unity among all of humanity. It is not that God is weak, it is that only God is so pure, so innocent, that he can unite the entire world.

 

I think devotees would be best to refrain from criticizing the symbols and stories of other religions. Believe me, as someone trying to be a Vaisnava, I could mock this religion left, right, and center. I have no interest in doing so, but you are fooling yourself if you think it can't be done, and done very effectively. For instance, devotees will criticize the Bible as being a compiled scripture so not valid, then turn around and quote this and that purana claiming they have never been touched by human hands and are millions of years old.

[krsna]

I've sinned many times as a practicing devotee, but who can I confess to?

I don't trust anyone now as they are mostly likely to ridicule, belittle and then back-stab me, what to speak of broadcasting it all over the 14 worlds.

 

Any advice of what to do wth one who is unconfessed, inveterate and willing to confess for a bit of forgiveness?

[theist]

 

He carries his burden along the Via Dolorosa (the path of sorrows) as we carry our burden (our humanity and frailty) through life).

 

 

Now I understand a bit more why they use this as an object of meditation.

 

I really got a lot out of a little book someone on this forum recommended a couple years back called the Way of the Pilgrim. I believe it came out of the Eastern Orthodox Church in Russia.

[theist]

 

 

I've sinned many times as a practicing devotee, but who can I confess to?

I don't trust anyone now as they are mostly likely to ridicule, belittle and then back-stab me, what to speak of broadcasting it all over the 14 worlds.

 

Any advice of what to do wth one who is unconfessed, inveterate and willing to confess for a bit of forgiveness?

 

 

 

 

I believe that the Christian or maybe Catholic idea of a priest is more in line with the small village guru concept then what we have going right now. Where the family priest or preacher would become available to congregational members at times apart from the church scheduled services and who was always available for consultation.

 

This is beyond the idea of just conducting the rituals at the church or temple.

 

This trust is another casuality of lack of trustworthy priests that seems to be widespread if not the norm in kali-yuga. Both Catholics and Iskcon have had to deal with pedophile *priests* for instance.

 

Supersoul will always listen and help us. I need the desire to learn the inner meaning of prayer. But because I know it would be spiritually dynamic to learn I shy away from it. Kind of afraid to get that close to Him.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

[krsna]

 

 

Hail Mary, full of grace.

 

The Lord is with thee.

 

Blessed art thou amongst women,

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

 

Holy Mary, Mother of God,

pray for us sinners,

now and at the hour of our death.

 

Amen.

 

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[krsna]

Prayer without Ceasing.

from The Way of the Pilgrim

 

 

[God's Call to the Pilgrim.]

 

"BY the grace of God I am a Christian man, by my actions a great sinner, and by calling a homeless wanderer of the humblest birth who roams from place to place. My worldly goods are a knapsack with some dried bread in it on my back, and in my breast-pocket a Bible. And that is all.

 

On the 24th Sunday after Pentecost I went to church to say my prayers there during the Liturgy. The first Epistle of St. Paul to the Thessalonians was being read, and among other words I heard these--" Pray without ceasing." It was this text, more than any other, which forced itself upon my mind, and I began to think how it was possible to pray without ceasing, since a man has to concern himself with other things also in order to make a living. I looked at my Bible, and with my own eyes read the words which I had heard, i.e, that we ought always, at all times and in all places, to pray with uplifted hands. I thought and thought, but knew not what to make of it. " What ought I to do! " I thought. " Where shall I find someone to explain it to me! I will go to the churches where famous preachers are to be heard; perhaps there I shall hear something which will throw light on it for me." I did so. I heard a number of very fine sermons on prayer; what prayer is, how much we need it, and what its fruits are; but no one said how one could succeed in prayer. I heard a sermon on spiritual prayer, and unceasing prayer, but how it was to be done was not pointed out. Thus listening to sermons failed to give me what I wanted, and having had my fill of them without gaining understanding, I gave up going to hear public sermons. I settled on another plan--by God's help to look for some experienced and skilled person who would give me in conversation that teaching about unceasing prayer which drew me so urgently.

 

For a long time I wandered through many places. I read my Bible always, and everywhere I asked whether there was not in the neighborhood a spiritual teacher, a devout and experienced guide, to be found..."

 

[Note that a spiritual director or teacher is often essential to spiritual life and growth. However we cannot often find the right person immediately so we pray the Lord will lead us to him and we search.]

 

"At last towards evening [one day] I was overtaken by an old man who looked like a cleric of some sort. In answer to my question he told me that he was a monk belonging to a monastery some six miles off the main road. He asked me to go there with him. " We take in pilgrims," said he, "and give them rest and food with devout persons in the guest house." I did not feel like going.1 So in reply I said that my peace of mind in no way depended upon my finding a resting-place, but upon finding spiritual teaching. Neither was I running after food, for I had plenty of dried bread in my knapsack. " What sort of spiritual teaching are you wanting to get" he asked me. " What is it puzzling you !" ...

 

"Well, it's like this, Father", said I. "About a year ago, while I was at the Liturgy, I heard a passage from the Epistles which bade men pray without ceasing. Failing to understand, I began to read my Bible, and there also in many places I found the divine command that we ought to pray at all times, in all places; not only while about our business, not only while awake, but even during sleep,'I sleep, but my heart waketh.' This surprised me very much, and I was at a loss to understand how it could be carried out and in what way it was to be done. A burning desire and thirst for knowledge awoke in me. Day and night the matter was never out of my mind. So I began to go to churches and to listen to sermons. But however many I heard, from not one of them did I get any teaching about how to pray without ceasing. They always talked about getting ready for prayer, or about its fruits and the like, without teaching one how to pray without ceasing, or what such prayer means. I have often read the Bible and there made sure of what I have heard. But meanwhile I have not reached the understanding that I long for, and so to this hour I am still uneasy and in doubt."

 

Then the old man crossed himself and spoke. " Thank God, my dear brother, for having revealed to you this unappeasable desire for unceasing interior prayer. Recognize in it the call of God, and calm yourself. Rest assured that what has hitherto been accomplished In you is the testing of the harmony of your own will with the voice of God. It has been granted to you to understand that the heavenly light of unceasing interior prayer is attained neither by the wisdom of this world, nor by the mere outward desire for knowledge, but that on the contrary it is found in poverty of spirit and in active experience in simplicity of heart. That is why it is not surprising that you have been unable to hear anything about the essential work of prayer, and to acquire the knowledge by which ceaseless activity in it is attained. Doubtless a great deal has been preached about prayer... But what is prayer! And how does one learn to pray ! Upon these questions, primary and essential as they are, one very rarely gets any precise enlightenment from present-day preachers. For these questions are more difficult to understand than all their arguments ..., and require mystical knowledge, not simply the learning of the schools. And the most deplorable thing of all is that the vain wisdom of the world compels them to apply the human standard to the divine. Many people reason quite the wrong way round about prayer, thinking that good actions and all sorts of preliminary measures render us capable of prayer. But quite the reverse is the case, it is prayer which bears fruit in good works and all the virtues... [T]he Apostle Paul says, ' I exhort therefore that first of all supplications he made ' (1 Tim. ii,1) The first thing laid down in the Apostle's words about prayer is that the work of prayer comes before everything else: ' I exhort therefore that first of all . . .' The Christian is bound to perform many good works, but before all else what he ought to do is to pray, for without prayer no other good work whatever can be accomplished. Without prayer he cannot find the way to the Lord, he cannot understand the truth, he cannot crucify the flesh with its passions and lusts, his heart cannot be enlightened with the light of Christ... None of those things can be effected unless they are preceded by constant prayer...

 

[The basic method.]

He took my request kindly and asked me into his cell. " Come in," said he;... We went into his cell and he began to speak as follows. " The continuous interior Prayer of Jesus is a constant uninterrupted calling upon the divine Name of Jesus with the lips, in the spirit, in the heart; while forming a mental picture of His constant presence, and imploring His grace, during every occupation, at all times, in all places, even during sleep. The appeal is couched in these terms, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. One who accustoms himself to this appeal experiences as a result so deep a consolation and so great a need to offer the prayer always, that he can no longer live without it, and it will continue to voice itself within him of its own accord. Now do you understand what prayer without ceasing is!"

 

"Yes indeed, Father, and in God's name teach me how to gain the habit of it," I cried, filled with joy.