Christ Consciousness

[theist]

That is sooo nice. That is Christianity. That is Christ Consciousness. Is that on-line or did you scan it?

[krsna]

 

 

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[Guest guest]

 

I see what you mean.Bad structure. Here is a corrected version.

 

What I find truly strange is polytheistic hindus trying to drag their demigod worship into the monotheistic conclusion that is vaisnavism.

 

 

This really makes no sense, either. For one thing, Hindus are no more polytheistic than Vaishnavas are. If you have ever lived in India, you will note that every household has an ishta-devata. If polytheism refers to acknowledgement of other deities, then even Vaishnavas are polytheistic.

 

Also, traditional Hindus do not "drag their demigod worship" into anything. This is beginning to sound like a slur against Hindus. The impersonalist pantheism you may be referring to is only about 200 years old.

 

"Demigod worship" does have a basis in the Vedas and their adjunctive literatures. On the other hand, Christ worship does not. Traditional Hindus aren't dragging anything onto Vaishnavism. From what I have observed, time and again, it is iskcon sympathizers who repeatedly try to force Christian conclusions onto Vaishnavism (or vice versa), and then cover up this fact by pointing fingers at Hindus.

 

Raghu

[theist]

 

This really makes no sense, either. For one thing, Hindus are no more polytheistic than Vaishnavas are.

 

 

Surely you jest. At least you made a distinction between hindus and vaisnavas.

 

If polytheism refers to acknowledgement of other deities, then even Vaishnavas are polytheistic.

 

 

It does mean that. It is placing demigod worship on equal footing with worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.Of course there are different depatmental heads in the universe, everybody acknowledges that but what is that when compared to the Cause of all Causes? There is a President of the USA also. To an insect living in you lawn you may be the rain god everytime you come around to water your lawn.

 

Krsna worship is not just in the mix. I see demigod worship as like the lotus leaf which is still on the water surface and monotheism as being the lotus flower that rises up above the water and leaf. And of that flower I believe Krsna worship to be the opened flower itself with Madhurya residing in the heart of blossom.

 

No comparison. They are worlds apart.

 

What you call bring in Christianity is nothing more that acknowledging the same truth when it is visible in another's religious process. This is called nonsectarianism. Also I live in a culture that is predominately influenced by Christianity. It can benefit greatly and has urgent need of the truths found in Prabhupada's teachings. How can we expect them to accept what we say if we are unwilling to acknowledge the truth when they speak it?

 

Anyway I don't want to continue speaking of this on this thread. Start another and I may join in.

[theist]

I want to stress this point a little more. New Ager types often try to equate what they call Christ Consciousness with Krishna Consciousness yet there is a certain difference that we need to keep in mind.

 

Being conscious of Christ is also Krsna consciousness because he is a Saktya-vesa Avatar. But at the same time Jesus was always directing everyone to His Father, our Father. In the same way always thinking of Srila Prabhupada is also Krsna consciousness because he is representing Krsna as an empowered servant. But he also is always pointing to Krsna.

 

So what I hear vaisnavas emphasising is taking on the same mind set as the pure devotee which is filled with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the mind of Christ spoken of in the New Testament. So in this way when asked devotees can say without hesitation that they are seeking Christ Consciousness. but we should always make the finer points, the distinctive features of the personalist viewpoint clear to remain and remain separate from the New Age mish mosh that is so popular in our western cultures.

[krsna]

 

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[bhakta_john]

according to Matthew 4-8, Jesus answered that in the earlier cited chapter:

 

"therefore, whoever will humble himself like this little

child is the one that is the greatest in the kingdom of

heavens, and whoever receives one such young child on the basis of my Name receives me also. but whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide open sea. woe to the world due to the stumbling blocks! of course, the stumbling blocks must of necessity come, but woe to the man through whom the stumbling block comes! if your hand or foot is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you!"

[dhaa]

 

Being conscious of Christ is also Krsna consciousness because he is a Saktya-vesa Avatar.

 

 

Praises to Lord Jesus Christ and the grand work he has done!

 

 

but we should always make the finer points, the distinctive features of the personalist viewpoint clear to remain and remain separate from the New Age mish mosh that is so popular in our western cultures

 

 

EDITORIAL, Jun 14 (VNN) — Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari "There are many manifestations of the Divine and all of them have their purpose and sentiments in the grand scheme of the life of God. The beautiful and appropriate thing to do is to honor all of them for what they are, not to inordinately merge them together."

 

Q. The raga-marg, or path of spontaneous love, requires that the Godhood of Krsna be obscured in order to cultivate a special relationship with him. In Christianity we see that Mother Mary has a special relationship with Jesus in the parental mood (vatsalya rasa) and it seems that Catholic saints like Faustina and Theresa experienced a conjugal mood (madhurya rasa) of love for Jesus. Might then one cultivate a particular raga marg sentiment for Jesus as is done in Gaudiya Vaisnavism for Krsna?

 

A. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura specifically rejected this notion. He said that Jesus is the son and guru figure, not the Personality of Godhead. While there are certainly other ways to view Jesus, we follow his opinion and those of the Gaudiya parampara regarding the raga-marg.

 

The raga marg is defined as being in relation to the residents of Vrndavana, who love Krsna primarily in four spiritual sentiments such that his Godhood is obscured. Those sentiments are that of a servant (dasya rasa), friend (sakhya rasa), parent (vatsalya rasa), and lover (madhurya rasa). The residents of Vrndavana are known as ragatmikas, or devotees who have spontaneous love for Krsna. The path of raga means following the ragatmikas in their mood of love for Krsna. If we stretch this concept to make it generic, we must ask who are the ragamikas of Jesus that one is supposed to emulate and what particular pastimes, moods, feelings, and so forth do they exhibit on the eternal, transcendent plane of perfection.

 

Furthermore, making raga-marg universal and applicable to any manifestation of God is in a sense unnatural and defeats its purpose.

 

There are many manifestations of the Divine and all of them have their purpose and sentiments in the grand scheme of the life of God. The beautiful and appropriate thing to do is to honor all of them for what they are, not to inordinately merge them together. This kind of merging is usually done to bolster one's faith, but with regard to the raga-marg, faith in the uniqueness of the Vraja-lila of Krsna is central to its practice......

[theist]

Many people we see try to use Lord Jesus Christ in a way that obscures His goal which is to illuminate the Supreme Person. They will often quote where Jesus said "I and the Father are one" but then ignore His statement "the Father is greater than I". Trying to cut Lord Jesus from Lord Krishna is offensive and displeasing to Lord Jesus.