Unto Whom Shall Thee Offer Obeisance, My Dear Prabhu?

[krsna]

Most significant word:

 

obeisance \oh-BEE-suhn(t)s; oh-BAY-suhn(t)s\, noun:

 

 

1. An expression of deference or respect, such as a bow or curtsy.

 

2. Deference, homage.

 

 

 

Obeisance comes from Old French obeissance, from

 

obeissant, present participle of obeir, "to obey," from

 

Latin oboedire, "to listen to,"

 

from ob-, "to" + audire, "to hear."

 

The adjective form is obeisant.

 

_______

 

 

Obeisance to Krsna

 

Therefore I shall 'listen to' Krsna.

 

Because I like 'to hear' from Krsna.

 

Hence, I shall 'obey to' Krsna.

 

[krsna]

A gesture or movement of the body, such as a curtsy, that expresses deference or homage.

 

An attitude of deference or homage.

 

[Middle English obeisaunce, from Old French obeissance, from obeissant, present participle of obeir, to obey. See obey.]

 

o·bei'sant adj.

 

 

 

Thesaurus

 

obeisance

 

noun

 

An inclination of the head or body, as in greeting, consent, courtesy, submission, or worship: bow1, curtsy, genuflection, kowtow, nod. See courtesy/discourtesy.

 

Great respect or high public esteem accorded as a right or as due: deference, homage, honor. See respect/contempt/standing.

 

 

 

 

WordNet

Note: click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words.

The noun obeisance has 2 meanings:

 

Meaning #1: bending the head or body or knee as a sign of reverence or submission or shame

Synonyms: bow, bowing

 

 

Meaning #2: the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person

Synonym: obedience

 

 

[theist]

 

Obeisance comes from Old French obeissance, from

 

obeissant, present participle of obeir, "to obey," from

 

Latin oboedire, "to listen to,"

 

from ob-, "to" + audire, "to hear."

 

The adjective form is obeisant.

 

 

to "listen to", "to hear" [from] and then "to obey" the instructions thus heard sounds like the whole life of the devotee.

 

I usually think of offering obeisances as an act of the body bowing down before another body. But now I see that to be really shallow thinking. Afterall a shadow can be made to bow down in a similar fashion but a shadow has no substance. The substance of a life lived in obeisance to the Lord is one of unfathomable depth.

 

Everyday a little deeper prabhus.

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada taught us to offer each other obiesancies. Now this often posed a problem, as we bow down before a devotee of questionable character. But we do it anyway, not necessarily because we wanbt to hear from the person, or obey him, but because Srila Prabhupada instructed us to do so.

 

This is sadhana bhakti, and is rooted is Siksastakam of Lord Chaitanya. We offer all respects to others expecting no respect in return. Obiesancies are an act of humility, and we do this to practice submissive attitude.

 

My siksa guru elaborated on this point. When we bow before another, we are actually practicing to recognize the other bird in the tree, the ever present Lord Nityananda Prabhu, who resides in the heart of all beings. St Francis actually offered obiesancies to even the critters, because he recognized the Lords presence. Mrgrari the hunter, after being taught by Narada muni, did this as well, but Srila Prabhupada taught us to just do it in the assembly of devotees.

 

One can "define" words into faithlessness, so I wouldnt put too much stock in any of these things you describe. Obiesancies are offered devotee to devotee in sadhana bhakti in order to kill the false ego. Once we start trying to figure out who is deserving of honor, we only have ourselves left to worship, the false ego fully intact. I dont know of any person who has been spiritually damaged by offering obiesancies to one unworthy. Even Srila Prabhupada confirms that no spiritual damage is done even by rascal gurus, because Krsna is omnipotent, and knows just exactly what we need to come to proper consciousness of swarupa siddhi, or real selves. So, reject definitions that make one wonder about the validity of others. We offer obiesancies to devotees just because Srila Prabhupada instructs us to do so. He shows us how by offering heartfelt obiesancies to even his rascal disciples. Thus he is ACARYA.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

yes yes yes lord caitanya Mahaprabhu instructs " offer respects to everyone " after all who knows who is who ?

oh ! to remain ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of Vaisnavas...

[theist]

Words also have meaning. And in looking closely at the word obeisance we learn what the deeper meaning is as Krsna has shown above. Yes respects to everyone but that doesn't mean you should listen to, hear and obey everyone. Every body is no doubt a temple of God because Supersoul is present in the heart. But that doesn't mean everyone we give gold to is a bonefide priest or representative of the Lord.

 

What is dangerous is prematurely giving up the proper use of discrimination. Rather I believe we should be sharping our discretionary powers for our own protection.

 

 

 

NoI 5: One should mentally honor the devotee who chants the holy name of Lord Krishna, one should offer humble obeisances to the devotee who has undergone spiritual initiation [diksha] and is engaged in worshiping the Deity, and one should associate with and faithfully serve that Pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My Gurumaharaja, when asked about offenses to the vaisnavas when we give no obeisances, was that first you have to find a vaisnava. Srila Prabhupada said in many purports to the Srimad Bhagavatam that there are many demons in the guise of devotees in this Krsna Consciousness movement. This notwithstanding the fact that we have to give respectto everyone - even the demons.

VdK.

[Guest guest]

I hear ya bro, and I certainly dont advocate bowing down to idiots. But the bottom line is that the one who gains from offering obiesancies is the one offering, not the one getting. I made note of Srila Prabhupada always offering obiesancies to his disciples. Now this does not mean that he is willing to obey kanistha adhikaris, but because he is the most genuinely humble, he derives spiritual benefit from such pure devotional service. He is always increasing his taste for such bhakti.

 

One who receives obiesancies are also taught to hit the deck immediately, otherwise their spiritual lives will be ruined. Anyone who accepts obiesancies from another in a spirit of false ego enjoyment (oh this person now accepts me as his superior, good boy, now you know what Ive always known about myself, that I am god and worshippable.) is just a fool. We seen many of these fools, the ones who dropped like flies from the devotional path. We accept anothers obiesancies while we offer obiesancies back, knowing that only Sri Krsna is worthy of "Bhajanti". This word is described by Srila Prabhupada as far surpassing the standard defined by the mere word "worship". We worship brahmanas, superiors, even parents, even politicians (if we are fool enough to believe them=;-), but bhajanti only goes to the supreme lord. So, when we offer obiesancies, we are reminded that the Supreme Lord is also present in the heart of all we make the sadhana practice of offering obiesancies to.

 

But I do agree with your point. I refused to do this to one fool who pretended to be a naistika brahmacari mahabhagavata (because the night before, I saw him at a disco with a teenage ho. Yeah, I was there too, even drinkin, but I wasnt pretendin to be some kinda spiritual authority.)

 

Haribol, yer surf ant, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

 

 

BY ARIJIT DAS

 

The appearance date of Sri Krishna Chaitanya is February 18, 1486

 

By the sweet will of Sri Krishna there was an eclipse and everyone was chanting the holy name. The lord then made his appearance at Sridham Mayapur an area in what was the city of Navadwipa, Bengal, India.

 

Gaudiya Vaisnavas are descendants of the disciples of Sri Chaitanya.

 

Sri Chaitanya instructed the mass of people in the "Sankya philosophy " of acintya - bheda - abeda tattva, which maintains that the supreme lord is simultaneously one with and different from his creation. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught this philoshopy through the chanting of the holy name of the lord. He explained that the lord and his holy name are one and the same and by associating with that sound incarnation of the lord one is directly in the Lords Company.

 

As one practices chanting of this sound vibration the devotee will pass through three stages of development.

 

1. The offensive stage

2. The clearing stage

3. Transcendental stage.

 

In the offensive stage one may desire all kinds of material happiness, but in the second stage of devotion one becomes clear of all material contamination. The desire for profit, distinction and or adoration falls away.

 

When one is situated on the transcendental stage he attains the most coveted position - pure love of god.

 

Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught that "Krishna Prema" is the highest stage for human beings to achieve.

 

We have often heard the phrase "love of God". How far this love can be developed can be learned from the Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. It is unique and the highest development of love of god that is presented by Sri Chaitanya and his disciples.

 

Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu left us eight verses of instruction in writing and they are known as Sri Sri Sikshastakam.

 

All other literature was extensively written by his principal followers the Six Goswamis of Vrndavan as well as by their students. The philosophy of Mahaprabhu is richer than any other and it is admitted to be the living religion of the day with the potency of being spread as "Vishwa Dhama". Perfection of life is attained by chanting the holy names following the advice of Sri Sikshastakam.

 

Trnad Api Sunicena

 

"One should chant the holy name of the lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself more humble then the straw in the street and devoid of all sense of false prestige.

 

Our beloved Guru Maharaja His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami is the personification of the teachings of Sri Krishna Chaitanya in the sense that with all sincerity and humility at hand he is executing the order of his guru maharaja by taking complete shelter of Sri Sri Radha and Krishna and making such pure devotion visible to the senses of ordinary conditioned souls with the hope that they too will take seriously the Sankirtan movement started by Sri Krishna Chaitanya.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami prabhupad said with all Vaisnava Humility that "He was simply a piece of straw in the broom stick of Bhaktivinode Thakur".

 

This humble attitude is nothing artificial or imitation. It is factual and filled with genuine love, trust and sincerity. These devotees are absorbed on the highest platform of spiritual understanding, realizing the absolute position of Guru and Disciple. With out this realization everything will be minimized and will breed doubt, confusion and faithlessness.

 

The modern idea that one should not be meek, rather one should be aggressive to fulfill ones desire is not applicable in the spiritual realm. One must learn humility and service to a higher living Vaisnava. The aggressive spirit suggests wanting to enjoy material energy and the passive or submissive spirit requires surrender in loving devotion. Mahaprabhu has taught us that Sri Krishna is the supreme enjoyer and that we are all his parts and parcels meant for being engaged in activities with devotional love.

 

When the aggressive (exploitive) spirit is in possession of us the consequence will be that our spiritual progress will be restricted until this problem is understood and resolved.

 

Sikshastakam Verse # 3

 

When we have faith in this idea that we can make progress. Otherwise we will not learn properly the timeless science of pure devotion. We will surely be misled by our own mental ideas and or mental concoctions of other conditioned souls (however pious they may appear). It is absolutely essential that we learn how to take complete shelter of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna otherwise when the moment of need arises we will find ourselves empty handed, confused and faithless.

 

Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings are not simply ornamental displays. They are reality - verses imbued with the power to change hearts. Practicing the teachings of Sikshastakam means to be eligible to enter Vrindavana. By the attitude developed by that practice we will allow other souls who may desire spiritual life to enter the gates Vrindavana and have the association of their Lord. Souls may come from the highest material realm or the very lowest it does not make a bit of difference. What does matter is that we do not make any distinctions based on mundane physical or mental ideas we may have had. That would be a great disservice and opposed to the teachings of Sri Chaitanya.

 

Everything that we possess must be purified and utilized in the service of our guru Maharaja this includes our memory as well. When we can see through the eyes of Sikshastakam past, present and future then we will understand clearly Sri Krishna's desire (it will not just be philosophy) we will experience how they are surcharged with true spiritual emotion and enthusiasm. The teachings of Mahaprabhu and his followers are life-giving agents for those devotees who were sincere in their motives.

 

Seeing through the eyes of Guru and Shastra, representatives of my guru Maharaj with the palms of their hands joined together humbly request everyone to please chant the holy names. No one has ever said that the chanting of the holy name is only for the pure unalloyed devotees. It's is for all classes of devotees.

 

By chanting without offense one is sure to achieve the highest perfection of love of Godhead. That should be desired by all classes of devotees and is the goal. If we do not strictly follow the teachings of Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the result will be that even though we say we are doing service to Guru and Gauranga we are actually doing a disservice because we are "disqualifying souls" who are not a pure unalloyed devotees from chanting the holy names, which are in themselves the means to attain such a coveted position.

 

The memory should be utilized in divine loving service by looking at the real spiritual benefit of souls whom we come in connection with and not to simply find fault with them. " In 1956 this person did this or that " this type of behavior is not inline with the teachings of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and must be purified by looking within ourselves and uprooting the dirty seeds of material desires that we are entertaining in our own hearts. What is expected is that the teachings of Guru and Krishna "AS IT IS" be excepted and clearly understood then distributed as much as possible not making mundane distinctions such as my friend, enemy, black, white, fat, skinny, rich, poor, educated, man, woman, child etc.

 

These material distinctions are based on the body concept and have no value when dealing with souls. Everyone can be engaged in loving devotional service. Everyone is already qualified because of being part and parcel of Krishna. As we mentioned earlier one has to first learn how to take shelter of Krishna, the activities of devotional service and their particulars which are given by a genuine spiritual master. It is essential that one follow them. One may find oneself to be very weak in their execution but regardless one should not under any circumstances be discouraged. It is certain that as soon as we make a little progress there will be someone or something that will attempt to discourage us. That is natural. As one develops in genuine attraction towards devotional activities, then the perception that mundane complements or criticism have no real value and the importance of being steady in one's own devotion to Guru and Krishna becomes prominent.

 

One should continue in this life doing service from the heart and this will with out a doubt please Guru and Krishna. Humility in the part of the devotee is the greatest thing and Krishna came at Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to teach us what it actually means.

 

All glory to Sri Guru in Sri Gauranga

 

Arijit Das

ACBSP

[AncientMariner]

Is it alright to offer respects to all people, religious leaders, politicians etc. and at the same time be thinking to yourself "Man, I gotta get away from these lunatics"?

[theist]

That sounds like a very healthy attitude. I heard the example of a tiger in this context. I can't remember if it was a Prabhupada example or from one of his students but it fits.

 

The jiva and Paramatma inhabit both the tiger and your child. But don't try to embrace the tiger.

 

So to function in the world we need to be mindful of both understandings simultaneously. The internal realizations will always be ahead of what our circumstances will allow us to express.

 

 

[Guest guest]

We're never the loser by giving honor to others.

Our honor to unfriendly aquaintances may just change their heart and attitude a little or even a lot.

[AncientMariner]

I understand the concept of bowing down to everyone and everything to honor God in all things and learning humility but being foolish and thinking everyone has your best interests at heart just because you honor and bow down to them is a recipe for disaster in my experience. Wasn't it Jesus who said be wise as a serpent and as gentle as a dove or something like that?

[Guest guest]

Lately, there seems to be an attitude of laziness. Its like "I need a guru, where is one". Now, if it were that easy, wed all be set, right? But simple is not the same as cheap and easy.

 

So we wonder who to bow down to. This is entirely our responsibility. Srila Prabhupada and the past acaryas, as well as shastra, these are all the tools at our disposal, but do we use any of them? Or is it preferable to just hang there and wait for someone else to point out exactly whom we hear from about spiritual matters.

 

So, when someone mentions a sadhana bhakti process of learning humility, like offering obiesancies, there is protest, saying the one who mentioned this is advocating on the behalf of rascals and fools.

 

No, this is never an option. We dont hear from rascals or fools, we offer them respects, but then we run like hell covering our ears. We must gravitate toward advanced devotees, but this is OUR RESPONSIBILITY, to take the tools at our disposal, and discern whether this person is advanced. Many disciples are much more advanced than their so-called gurus, so this is a great detriment to their spiritual growth, they are going the wrong direction by taking advice from one of less advancement. How do we know? By taking responsibility for owns own bhakti, we have the Guru, there are plenty of saints we can learn from, there is a vast array of scriptural science to get a proper education. So there is never a reason to whine about how this guy aint up to snuff or this guy is not worthy. If your guru is a lowlife, then we have the DUTY to at least bring him or her up to our level of advancement. Anyway, we need to concern ourselves who is worthy of obiesance. The act of offering is the sadhana bhakti, there is never a vaisnava who accepts obiesancies, even Srila Prabhupada, who insists that he places all such things at the feet of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

To the devotee who is giving Krsna consciousness to the whole world we fall flat on our face in the dirt like a stick, we can respect anyone who chants the holy Names with pranams and inner respect, and to those who are envious or innimical we simply offer respect from a distance wishing them well and improvement as misdirected jivas in their evolution back to spiritual health. We don't have to associate or even engage, but if we sincerely wish to help others a friendly honorable attitude is a good place to open the door, if they still spit on you take Mahaksas advice and move out of their space, to a more receptive soul.

 

Full dandabats feel pretty good when ya down there in the dust saying vancha kalpa tarubyas ca. It's pretty rare to see anyone in this world humbling themselves so much, other than the vaisnavas, of course it can be faked but it is designed to practice untill it becomes real.

[Guest guest]

Kudos, kiddo. Dandavats are spiritually sense gratifying, there is no better place for that crown of thorns than in the dirt, takes the pressure off. Forget about the guy, enjoy the sadhana bhakti. Practice makes perfect (as well as spontenaity (sp))

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

 

"Our philosophy is that every living being is the son of the Supreme Being and whatever we see within our vision -- either living beings on the land, on the water -- everything belongs to the Supreme Being. Every living being has a right to enjoy the Supreme Father's property. So everyone means not only the human beings, but also other living entities, those living in the sky, water, trees, plants, creepers, ants, beasts, birds -- all living beings, they are sons of the Supreme Being. That is the real communistic idea, perfectly enunciated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam."

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada letter 18th November, 1975)

[Kulapavana]

"We accept anothers obiesancies while we offer obiesancies back, knowing that only Sri Krsna is worthy of "Bhajanti"."

 

it is kind of like saluting in the military: you salute the rank, not the person.

[theist]

SB 3.29.16: The devotee should regularly see My statues in the temple, touch My lotus feet and offer worshipable paraphernalia and prayer. He should see in the spirit of renunciation, from the mode of goodness, and see every living entity as spiritual.

 

SB 3.29.17: The pure devotee should execute devotional service by giving the greatest respect to the spiritual master and the acaryas. He should be compassionate to the poor and make friendship with persons who are his equals, but all his activities should be executed under regulation and with control of the senses.

 

SB 3.29.18: A devotee should always try to hear about spiritual matters and should always utilize his time in chanting the holy name of the Lord. His behavior should always be straightforward and simple, and although he is not envious but friendly to everyone, he should avoid the company of persons who are not spiritually advanced.

 

SB 3.29.19: When one is fully qualified with all these transcendental attributes and his consciousness is thus completely purified, he is immediately attracted simply by hearing My name or hearing of My transcendental quality.

 

SB 3.29.20: As the chariot of air carries an aroma from its source and immediately catches the sense of smell, similarly, one who constantly engages in devotional service, in Krishna consciousness, can catch the Supreme Soul, who is equally present everywhere.

 

SB 3.29.21: I am present in every living entity as the Supersoul. If someone neglects or disregards that Supersoul everywhere and engages himself in the worship of the Deity in the temple, that is simply imitation.

 

SB 3.29.22: One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramatma, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes.

 

SB 3.29.23: One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others and is therefore a separatist never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.

 

SB 3.29.24: My dear Mother, even if he worships with proper rituals and paraphernalia, a person who is ignorant of My presence in all living entities never pleases Me by the worship of My Deities in the temple.

 

SB 3.29.25: Performing his prescribed duties, one should worship the Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead until one realizes My presence in his own heart and in the hearts of other living entities as well.

 

SB 3.29.26: As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities because of a differential outlook.

 

SB 3.29.27: Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.