The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world...(Bhag. 3.16.26, purp)

[krsna]

A Short Presentation on Jiva-tattva

 

 

By Swami B. B. Visnu

The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

 

From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)

 

[The Spiritual World] contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions...

It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

Purpose:

 

To present pertinent quotes from sastra, acaryas and our acarya (Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) on the subject of jiva-tattva in a logical way that shows conclusively that the living entities in the spiritual world do not fall from there. We have purposely avoided making statements or including references which are ambiguous, as they distract the reader from the focus of this paper. The necessity for this paper arises due to the continued misunderstanding of the actual siddhanta on jiva-tattva by a section of devotees. Many illogical statements have been made in defense of the theory that we fall from the Lord's eternal lila. We will show by analysis of rasa-tattva and logic that is is completely impossible and illogical for living entities to fall from the spiritual world.

 

Evidence:

 

All evidence given by all Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas, sastra, and Vaishnava publications directly states that we do not fall from the spiritual world [either Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana]. When the primary meaning of evidence is clear and coherent there is no necessity to interpret it, as stated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu:

 

For each sutra the direct meaning must be accepted without interpretation. However, you simply abandon the direct meaning and proceed with your imaginative interpretation. Although there is other evidence, the evidence given in the Vedic version must be taken as foremost. Vedic versions understood directly are first-class evidence. (Cc. Madhya-lila 6.134-5, texts)

 

No Fall References: The living entities [jivas ] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned... [the first are] always awake to Krsna consciousness,... eternal associates.. eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 22.10-11, text) In the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)

 

Websters New World Dictionary defines "infallible" as: 1- incapable of error, never wrong, 2-not liable to fail, go wrong, make a mistake etc, 3-incapable of error in setting forth doctrine on faith and morals.

 

The third characteristic of Vaikuntha is that one does not fall (Bhag.-sand. 61) Free jivas are never enslaved. (Vaisnavism Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S Thakura ) The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down. (Bhag. 3.3.26, purp.) . . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.)

The conclusion [re Jaya-Vijaya] is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

... they never fall into the material world. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)

From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)

The question is that, why the living entity falls down? It is not falls down. Just like Jaya-Vijaya came just to satisfy his master. His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy." (720405SB.MEL)

Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)

In the spiritual world... inhabitants...They're aksara. They do not fall down. Ksara aksara. We are ksaras. We have fallen down in this material world. But there are devotees in the spiritual world, in the Vaikunthaloka, they never come down. Never come down in this material world, but they are also persons like us, but eternal persons, with full knowledge and life of blissfulness. That is the difference between them and us. (741105SB.BOM)

Statements taken as indicating that the origin of all living entities in this material world is by falling from the Lord's lila are obtained thru misinterpretation of secondary indirect statements and not primary direct statements. According to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, one must consider direct first hand evidence rather than subsidiary indirect statements interpreted according to one's necessity. To introduce ambiguous statements and interpret them distorts the clear meaning of the primary evidence further. The Our Original Position book (OOP's) clouds the issue by presenting inconclusive arguments without answering the many contradictions pointed out in this presentation.

 

Sarvabhauma Battacarya tried to defeat Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with many false arguments: "The word vitanda indicates that a debater, not touching the main point or establishing his own point, simply tries to refute the other person's argument. When one does not touch the direct meaning but tries to divert attention by misinterpretation, he engages in chala. " (Cc. Madhya-lila 6.176, purp.)

For example, a verse sometimes cited as evidence of falldown is Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.2.37,

 

bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad

isad apetasya viparyayo ’smrtih

tan-mayayato budha abhajet tam

bhaktyaikayesam guru-devatatma

 

When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord. This bewildering, fearful condition is effected by the potency for illusion, called maya.

This verse does not make any reference to liberated souls nor even to the spiritual world. No acaryas have explained this verse as indicative of falldown from Vaikuntha, indeed this verse states that this condition of turning away from the Lord is brought about by maya, which is not present in Vaikuntha (cf. Bhag 2.9.10: na yatra maya ). Proponents of the "Fall Theory" like to equate statements such as "forgetting Krsna" as synonomous with the assumption that we were with Krsna in the spiritual world and forgot Him. Srila Prabhupada however dispelled this misunderstanding in a letter to Jagadisa Dasa in 1970:

 

Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature?

Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly like deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs.

The understanding that is presented here very clearly by Srila Prabhupada is much different than that interpreted by some–that we were all originally with the Lord in His lila in the spiritual world. In the purport of this famous Bhag. 11.2.37, krsna bhuli verse (alsoCc. Madhya-lila 20.117) Srila Prabhupada explains the text of this verse, translated as "Forgetting Krsna" as meaning

 

When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna.

Furthermore, the statements presented above of Srila Prabhupada and other acaryas, directly refuting the fall hypothesis are completely ignored by proponents of this hypothesis without any attempt to reconcile them. Therefore the burden of proof lies with those proposing this fall theory. Additional references are available at:

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_1.html

 

 

Free Will

 

Free choice is an inherent quality of all living entities, yet this quality is greatly misunderstood. As we will show, residents of the spiritual world are blissful and are never forgetful of their eternal position as servitors of the Supreme Lord and therefore will never misuse their free will. All living entities in the spiritual world are on the same transcendental platform. References for this are given later in this presentation. There is no more chance for a jiva to leave the spiritual world than it is possible for Baladeva to give up his relationship with Lord Krsna.

 

A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called maya, is always available, otherwise there would not be independence. Independence implies that one can use it properly or improperly. (Bhag. 3.31.15, purp.)

The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom. (Bhag. 1.8.23, purp.)

The living beings are given as much freedom as they deserve, and misuse of that freedom is the cause of suffering. The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom, and therefore they are the good sons of the Lord. (Bhag. 1.8.28, purp.)

A pure devotee of the Lord is so purified in his heart that he cannot leave the shelter of Lord Krsna in any circumstances. There is no self-interest in such service. (Bhag. 2.8.6, purp.)

Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence?

Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy in Krsna's service. (670218CC.SF)

Krsna says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." (731213mw.la)

In the ISKCON GBC Position booklet (OOPs p. 194) it is stated that the residents of the spiritual world have the free will to leave, as a crazy man has the free will to jump off the roof. In this booklet they state that these residents are indeed crazy (bewildered) when they leave. This explanation is very insubstantial and misleading. In the material world we always have the choice between matter and spirit but in the spiritual world there is no matter so one will not and cannot choose matter.

 

The living entity enmeshed in maya sees no viable choice besides maya, in the sense that he is attached and thinks that this life of maya is in his best interest. Although he has the free choice to choose spiritual life, he sees this as a threat to his sense gratification and therefore undesirable. In the spiritual world however, the living entity, fully absorbed and overwhelmed with ecstatic love, cannot bear the thought of doing anything averse to the Lord's interest—seeing this as a threat to his continued absorption in pure loving ecstatic devotional service—his very life. In the spiritual world, all the living entities are fully self-realized. As shown below in section 6a, they have fully realized the conclusions of sastra—that they are an eternal servant of the Lord, and they are fully experiencing their realizations of eternal blissfulness. It is not that they know every last detail of sastra. For example, some of the gopis were previously the Personified Vedas. Although as gopis, they are celebrated as exhibiting the highest standard of devotion and are recognized as such by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu—ramya kacit upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena, they had almost no knowledge of the Vedas, and state as much in their wonderful prayers upon meeting their beloved Krsna after so long at Kuruksetra. (Bhag. 10.82.48) Yet we should not agree with them that they are ordinary girls simply engaged in household affairs. They are the personification of the Vedas, absorbed in the highest mellows of devotion—krsna-prema.

 

Thesis

 

The source of the dispute over the siddhanta regarding the origin of the jiva stems from the fact that vast amounts of devotees are not well read in the Goswami's literatures, have not understood their conclusions properly and thus do not properly know the siddhanta. A lack of proper understanding or appreciation of the most dear associates of the Lord is shown, for instance, by those who try to equate the appearance of the pure devotee Tulasi-devi in this material world as synonomous with that of ordinary conditioned jivas.

 

... tulasi is given special preference by the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.19, text)

Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains... Urja is [the Lord's] internal potency for performing pastimes; she expands as the tulasi plant in this world. (Bhag. 10.39.53-5, purp.)

Tulasi Devi never goes back to Godhead, she is always with Godhead. She is a pure devotee and thus she has appeared on this planet to render service to Krsna by being offered in all temples throughout the world, by being offered up to the lotus feet of Krsna. (SP Ltr Radhavallabha: 6 January, 1972)

Yes, Sri Tulasi is the eternal consort of Krsna, and the most pure devotee, and therefore, the Tulasi plant is worshipped by Vaisnavas. (SP Ltr Balai: 22 March, 1968)

Sastra says, "Tulasi is the greatest devotee of Krsna." We have to accept, that's all. Authority. How she is so great devotee, that you will understand when you become a devotee. (730222SB.AUC)

People present many illogical arguments, kutarka. They consider the Lord in Goloka and the eternal transcendental variety, in the form of the eternal relation between the worshipable Lord and His devotees, equal to the temporary activities of the conditioned souls under the influence of maya. Many arguments are raised in such philosophy considering the eternal transcendental objects equal to the material inert objects, but reality is not so. The pastimes of the svarupa-sakti of the Lord are not equal to the temporary endeavors of the conditioned soul in the material world. (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura,Vivrti on Bhag. 3.7.11)

In fact to think that any associate of the Lord in the spiritual world can fall from His association showns a lack of understanding of the basic intrinsic nature of the Lord's svarupa-sakti and it's wonderful all absorbing ecstatic attribute, Krsna-prema.

 

Prema References:

 

In the material world there cannot be prema. Prema means love. The prema is only possible in the spiritual world. (720522SB.LA)

Conclusion is that when you get your spiritual body then the desire will be different. And that is prema...in the spiritual world, because there is no material body, only desire is how to satisfy Krsna. Kama krsna karmarpane. (761127SB.VRN)

In the Vaikuntha planets there is actual, spiritual ananda. Krsna is there in His ecstatic, spiritual form, surrounded by His blissful associates, all of them eternally full of bliss and knowledge. They have nothing to do with material existence. In the spiritual planets even the scenery and birds and animals are fully conscious of Krsna and are absorbed in transcendental bliss. (Bhag. 11.2.37, purp.)

Antithesis

 

If we [incorrectly] assume that the siddhanta is that we do fall from the spiritual world, we are faced with a host of contradictions which cannot be resolved. The bulk of this presentation is concerned with documenting these contradictions with quotes from sastra, our acaryas and Srila Prabhupada.

 

The official Iskcon GBC presentation, Our Original Position, fails to prove that the nitya-mukta jivas fall from the spiritual world. Inconclusive statements are given in an attempt to show that the jivas all originated in this material world by falling from the Lords lila in the spiritual world. This OOPs book does not address the real arguments or resolve the innumerable contradictions which arise from their hypothesis.

 

The jivas originate from the tatastha.

 

Innumerable references from prominent acaryas, some of which are given below, clearly and repeatedly state that the marginal jivas originate from the tatastha-sakti of the Lord and not in the spiritual (cit-sakti) realm itself.

 

It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. (Tattva Viveka 2.4, by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, page 55)

The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which again is avidya. Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of soul's essential nature that 'I am Krsna's servant.' This avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was at the tatastha position. As such, the beginning of karma is not to be traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is beginningless. (Jaiva Dharma, pag 234)

The previous reference is also quoted in OOP's on page 269 but rather than accept this straightforward statement for what it is, it is lamely suggested that we shouldn't try to understand such things. One may then intelligently ask, "Then why have you written the OOPs book at all?!"

 

There are two types of jivas liberated from maya: nitya-mukta, eternally liberated, and baddha-mukta, those who were bound but became liberated. The jivas who were never bound by maya are called nitya-mukta. The nitya-muktas are also of two types, aisvarya gata nitya mukta and madhurya gata nitya mukta. The former are the associates of Lord Narayana in Vaikuntha and are the atomic particles from mula Sankarsana. The latter are the associates of Lord Krsna in Goloka. They are the atomic particles of Sri Baladeva situated in Goloka Vrndavana. (Jaiva-Dharma, Chapter 17, p. 251)

The following reference is very clear and straightforward, presented exactly as translated and published in English by leading devotee scholars under the direction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura.

 

The jivas have grown out of the jiva-shakti of Sri Krishna. Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit... When he desired to have His adherent attendance 'nitya parshada ' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka- Vrindavana, Vaikuntha, etc, He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parshada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds... Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarshana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Sri Narayana. Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-shakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha shakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya ... As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-shakti that begets the jivas, and not the chit-shakti. " (Bhaktivinode Thakura, Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 15)

According to Visnu Purana, Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature's, the living entities are generated from the tatastha energy of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.7.9, purport)

The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is confirmed in Brahma-samhita: yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-ananda-koti. (Bhag. 4.30.5, purport)

As spiritual sparks of the beams emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord, we are all permanently related with Him and equal to Him in quality. (C.c. Madhya-lila 5.22)

The all-pervading feature of the Lord - which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jiva-sakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls - is known as Brahman. (Isopanisad 16, purp., 9th parag.)

It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. (Tattva-viveka 2.4, purp.)

 

Unexplainable contradictions inherent in the "Fall Theory:"

 

There are no sastric statements that we fall from the spiritual world nor are there any references anywhere to a "mukta-baddha " living entity--that is, a nitya-mukta living entity that has fallen from the spiritual world and become nitya-baddha. Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Jaiva Dharma lists three types of living entities and gives specific information of their creation by the Lord. That is, the nitya-mukta parsada's of Vaikuntha are generated by Sankarsana, the nitya-mukta parsada's of Goloka Vrndavana are generated by Balarama and the marginal jivas of the tatastha-sakti are generated from Maha Vishnu. He does not mention a fourth type of entity, nor does any other authoritative source anywhere mention such an entity.

-- The only statements, both in sastra and by Vaishnava acaryas are that the residents of the spiritual world are infallible and are eternally resident there--forever free from the influence of maya. Innumerable commentaries by prominent Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas clearly indicate that we do not fall from the spiritual world. Srila Prabhupada also states that "the conclusion is that no one falls." (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) These clearly stated "no fall" statements cannot even begin to be reconciled by the "fall theory" advocates. This one point in itself renders the "fall theory" inconclusive and erroneous. There is no sastra sangati--reconciliation of contradictory statements of sastra or acaryas. To present a non-sastric and incomplete explanation that the residents of Vaikuntha have not actually fallen but are only daydreaming about mahamaya is not at all consistent with the numerous quotes presented herein--the residents of Vaikuntha never forget Krsna, never are influenced by maha-maya, are eternally blissful etc. If they experience any dreams they would certainly be about Krsna.

 

-- All bonafide Vaishnava acaryas and publications unanimously state that the living entities do not fall from the spiritual world. [4] In recent years, there are some devotees that have published views contrary to those of the Vaishnava acaryas in hopes of establishing their own siddhanta. This is not acceptable. Numerous quotations from prominent Vaishnava authorities are presented in our web site:

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_10.html

 

 

We have heard the siddhanta that no one falls from the spiritual world personally from many many highly exaulted Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas, in addition to our own Guru Maharaja, Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada [the conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world: Bhag. 3.16.26 purp], such as Srila Sridhara Maharaja, recognized by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura as sastra-nipuna (scriptural genious), Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Maharaja, chief editor of the daily spiritual newspaper Nadiya Prakasa during and after the time of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Bhakti Vallabh Tirtha Maharaja, the successor acarya of Shri Chaitanya Gaudiya Matha of Madhava Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, a leading disciple of Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja, the sannyasa guru of Srila Prabhupada, and leading sannyasi disciples of Srila Prabhupada such as Jagat Guru Swami B. G. Narasingha and Swami B. V. Tripurari and many others. And they are repeating what they learned from their Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and his direct disciples.

 

Although Srila Prabhupada mentions having differences with his godbrothers and the Gaudiya Matha he never once even suggests that they do not understand the siddhanta. It is highly unlikely that they would say something different from that which was taught to them by their Guru Maharaja. These aforementioned Vaisnavas are seniormost in terms of their realizations and spiritual standing, so their knowledge and realization should not be completely disregarded. Additionally, our godbrother, the late Gour Govinda Maharaja, was highly learned in siddhanta and scrutinizingly studied the commentaries of our acaryas, especially Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. He was known for his uncompromizing firm stand with the "No Fall" siddhanta.

 

-- The residents of the spiritual world are extremely happy and being very much in love with Krsna, could never consider leaving.[5a]. Yogamaya always acts to perfect the Lord's lila. [5b] Residents cannot become envious [5c] and there is no disharmony there. [5d]

 

5a- References showing that the residents of the spiritual world are extremely happy and being very much in love with Krsna, could never consider leaving.

 

The nitya-siddha devotees love Krsna millions of times more than their own selves. They all have eternal, blissful qualities just like Lord Krsna. (Brs. 2.1.290, text)

Whether boys, youths, or grown-up persons-every one of the millions of cowherd residents of Vraja feels himself the dearest to Krsna. (Brhad-bhag. 2.6.211, text)

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in Govinda-bhasya, "One cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated souls ever desire to leave the Lord." He further states that this is because of their extreme mutual love and cites four verses as evidence (Bg. 7.17, Bhag. 9.4.68, 9.4.65 and 2.8.6).

For a devotee who has actually developed bhava, the pleasure derived from dharma, artha, kama and moksa appears like a drop in the presence of the sea. (Cc. Adi-lila 7.85, text)

The Lord's pure devotee renders service unto the Lord out of unalloyed love only, and while discharging such devotional service the pure devotee forgets the position of the Supreme Lord. [bhag. 1.8.31, purport]

The conception of spiritual bliss (Brahmananda) is fully present in those planets ... That eternal land is full of transcendental enjoyment and full of beauty and bliss. (Bhag.2.6.18, purp.)

For all living entities to be attracted toward Krsna is natural, and therefore the Lord's real name is Krsna, meaning He who attracts everyone and everything. The typical examples of such attraction are found in Vrndavana, where everything and everyone is attracted by Krsna... all living beings are attracted by Krsna. This is the natural situation of everything in Vrndavana. Just contrary to the affairs of Vrndavana is the material world, where no one is attracted by Krsna and everyone is attracted by maya. This is the difference between the spiritual and material worlds. (Bhag. 7.5.14, purp.)

The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys, Maharaja Nanda, Yasoda, everyone is simply anxious how to make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. He's acting as the little son of Yasoda, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vrndavana. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. [710217CC.GOR]

In the spiritual world there is no such distinction. The officer and the cleaner, they are of the same importance. That is even Krsna, with Krsna. That is spiritual world. In Vrndavana the cowherds boys, they are playing with Krsna on equal terms. They do not know Krsna is God. They simply know how to love Krsna, that's all. There is no need of thinking that "Krsna is greater than the other cowherds boy. They are living entities." There is no such sense. Krsna wants that. That is Goloka Vrndavana worship. Simply the center is Krsna, and all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, they love Krsna, and they do not know anything except Krsna. This is Vrndavana life. Everyone knows that "Krsna is my very intimate friend." Somebody knows, "Krsna is my son," somebody knows that "Krsna is my master," and somebody is thinking, "Krsna is my lover." But center is Krsna. The cows, the calves, the friends, the gops, and the cowherds boy, Krsna's father, Nanda Maharaja, Krsna's mother, Yasomati, and . . . Everyone's center is Krsna, "How Krsna will be happy?" This is Vrndavana life. (750312DP.LON)

Vrndavana means this attachment to Krsna. Central point is Krsna, but the varieties of attachment, they are the same. The only difference is that this attachment centering round Krsna is never broken. (750709SB.CHI)

 

5b- The Yoga-maya energy of the spiritual world always acts to perfect the Lords lila.

 

Yogamaya... acts to perfect all the pastimes of the Lord with His different types of devotees. (Bhag. 2.7.30, purp.)

The transcendental happiness exhibited in the spiritual world and all other spiritual manifestations there are made possible by the influence of yoga-maya, the internal potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag. 3.15.26, purport)

When a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an arrangement by yoga-maya, not maha-maya. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)

There is some action of the internal potency of the Lord in the exchange of feelings between Him and His eternal associates... The Lord exchanges transcendental relations in five ways, as proprietor, master, friend, son and lover, and in each of these pastimes He plays fully by the potency of yogamaya, the internal potency. He plays exactly like an equal friend... exactly like a son... exactly like a lover... exactly like a husband... Such devotees...think of Him exactly as a common friend, a pet son, or a lover or husband very much dear to heart and soul. That is the relation between the Lord and His transcendental devotees... When the Lord descends, He does so along with His entourage to display a complete picture of the transcendental world, where pure love and devotion for the Lord prevail without any mundane tinge of lording it over the creation of the Lord. (Bhag. 1.11.39, purp.)

The Lord's pure devotee renders service unto the Lord out of unalloyed love only, and while discharging such devotional service the pure devotee forgets the position of the Supreme Lord. [bhag. 1.8.31, purport]

Srila Jiva Gosvami has elaborately explained... One of the fundamental philosophical principles of the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the distinction between two types of illusion, Yoga-maya and Maha-maya, the spiritual and material states of existence, respectively. Although Krsna is God, the omnipotent, omniscient Supreme Being, His intimate associates in the spiritual world love Him so much that they see Him as their beloved child, friend, lover and so on. So that their ecstatic love can transcend the boundaries of mere reverence, they forget that Krsna is the Supreme God of all the universes, and thus their pure, intimate love expands unlimitedly. (Bhag. 10.28.13, purp. by disciples of Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada)

Yogamaya means the mercy of the Supreme Lord which connects a devotee in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and mahamaya means the external potency of the Lord which puts a conditioned soul into illusion that he will be happy by material adjustment. Ltr Aniruddha 68-11-14

The Lord and His pure devotees are always beyond the range of Maya's action. Even though they appear like action of Maya, we should understand their action of Yogamaya or the internal potency of the Lord. SP Ltr Satsvarupa 68-04-03

Yogamaya means the mercy of the Supreme Lord which connects a devotee in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and mahamaya means the external potency of the Lord which puts a conditioned soul into illusion that he will be happy by material adjustment. (Ltr Aniruddha 68-11-14)

By the influence of the Lord's yogamaya potency, Krsna's cowherd boyfriends think themselves His equals and sometimes challenge Him. A boy will climb on His back and say, "What kind of a big man are You?" Similarly, when mother Yasoda or Srimati Radharani chides Krsna, He likes it. (NBS 2.27)

5c- Envy does not manifest in the spiritual world.

 

The most important thing about the spiritual world is that there is no envy among the devotees there. (Bhag. 3.15.19, purp.)

Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge... ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy–are completely absent. (Cc. Madhya 5.22, purp.)

There is no envy in the spiritual world. The OOP's book states that when a resident there becomes envious he must leave because envy is not allowed. We do not agree that envy can manifest even for a fraction of a second. If you wish to light a match in a gas filled room and think that you may go outside after lighting the match you will blow yourself up first, you cannot have the fire in the room for a moment. Similarly envy cannot even manifest in the spiritual realm--the nature of the spiritual world is such that the unpleasant conditions under which envy and other negative material qualities may develop are completely absent there, as we have shown with the many references quoted herein.

 

5d- References that there is absolutely no disharmony in spiritual world

 

In the Vaikuntha world there is complete harmony between the residents and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag. 3.15.33, text)

In the Vaikuntha world there is no question of enmity between the Lord and the residents. (Bhag. 3.15.32, purport)

... are absolutely in harmony with the Personality of Godhead, or in other words, they always think of the Lord as their only dependable friend and well-wisher. (Bhag. 2.2.18, purp.)

In the Vaikuntha world there is no disharmony between the Lord and the residents. Therefore God's creation in the Vaikuntha world is perfect. There is no cause of fear. The entire kingdom of God is such a completely harmonious unit that there is no possibility of emnity. Everything there is absolute . . . Maya means disharmony between the living entities and the Supreme Lord, and Vaikuntha means harmony between them. (Bhag. 3.15.33, purp.)

[in the spiritual world] those who are in oneness with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, however, are called infallible. Oneness does not mean that they have no individuality, but that there is no disunity. (Bg. 15.16, purp.)

In the spiritual world... there is no disparity because everyone wants to render service to the Supreme Lord, and no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.)

There the devotees are so much in accord with Krsna and Visnu that there is no question of disagreement. (690411rc.ny)

There is no more jati, no more distinction. Everything serving. That one. The master is also spiritual, and the servant is also spiritual, and there is no other relationship. Here in the material world we artificially want to become . . . we want to become God. But in the spiritual world there is no such conception. (741216SB.BOM)

[krsna]

Many statements exist in sastra and the writings of Gaudiya Acaryas which clearly indicate that the residents of the spiritual world are all self-realized [6a], full of knowledge and six opulences [6b], infallible [6c], are pure devotees [6d], have no desires [6e] and are suddha-sattva/cinmaya-rasa [6f]. A detailed investigation of these qualities clearly reveals that it is impossible for those possessing such qualities to ever desire to leave the spiritual world. [6g]

 

6a- References showing that the residents of the spiritual world are all self realized

 

All the residents of Vaikunthaloka... are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. (Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.)

Those who are in the spiritual world are known to be completely self-realized because on the spiritual platform the living entity is not forgetful of his service to the Lord. (Bhag. 4.24.33, purp.)

Definitions of Self Realized:

 

Knows his constitutional position perfectly well. (Bg 5.20, purp.)

Fixed in the understanding that his eternal position is to serve in association with the Supreme Lord. (Bhag. 3.26.2, purp.)

To know the individual self and the reciprocal exchanges of loving service between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the living entity is real self-realization. (Bhag. 3.27.28-9, purp.)

Those who are in the spiritual world are known to be completely self-realized because on the spiritual platform the living entity is not forgetful of his service to the Lord... they are eternally fixed for they understand the position of the Supreme being, as well as their individual constitution. (Bhag. 4.24.33, purp.)

Even in the midst of great distress, a self-realized sage does not lose control of himself, nor is his spiritual knowledge lost... His mind is fixed on the Supreme Personality of Godhead... he cannot be surpassed or overwhelmed. (Bhag. 11.8.5. purp.)

According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, a self-realized soul cuts all doubts to pieces by direct experience of his true spiritual identity... there is no possibility of any existence separate from Lord Krsna. (Bhag. 11.11.12-13, purp. by disciples of Srila Prabhupada)

6b- The residents are completely fixed in knowledge of their constitutional position.

 

The following quotes prove that every resident of the spiritual world is fully cognizant in their sat-cit-ananda spiritual body and cannot become illusioned; additionally, illusion being a product of maya, is not allowed there–na yatra maya (Bhag. 2.9.10). They have free choice but but being in full knowledge and infallible they choose to use it properly and never wish to imitate the Lord.

 

A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance... (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)

According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, we can understand from this verse that since none of the material facilities available in any of the universal planetary systems can distract a pure devotee of the Lord, such a devotee can never possibly fall or become inimical to the Lord's service. (Bhag. 11.2.53, purp. by disciples of Srila Prabhupada)

In the spiritual world... no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.)

In the spiritual world, there is no forgetfulness by the living entities, who are free from all kinds of contaminations resulting from the forgetful state of existence... the whole atmosphere of the spiritual world is called vidya, or full of knowledge. (Bhag. 2.6.21, purp.)

. . . in that pure conscious state [in the spiritual world] the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but that he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love. (Bhag. 2.9.1, purp. last parag.)

A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.)

A nitya-mukta never forgets his position as the eternal servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord is nitya-mukta. (Bhag. 4.16.19, purp.)

All the residents of Vaikunthaloka know perfectly well that their master is Narayana, or Krsna, and that they are all His servants. They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. Although they could conceivably declare themselves Narayana or Visnu, they never do so; they always remain Krsna conscious and serve the Lord faithfully. Such is the atmosphere of Vaikunthaloka. (Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.)

A man with full knowledge knows perfectly well that there cannot be any existence without Krsna. (Bhag. 7.15.58, purp.)

An exalted and pure devotee like Maharaja Ambarisa is in full awareness of Paramatma, Brahman, maya, the material world, the spiritual world, and how things are going on everywhere. (Bhag. 9.5.25, purp.)

... he never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.)

. . .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any forgetfulness. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205)

[the nitya-mukta living entity] never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.)

The living beings in Vaikunthaloka are never forgetful of their identities: they are eternally cognizant of their relationship with God (Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.)

Within this material world there are different grades of forms, and according to the grade, knowledge is proportionately manifested. For example, the knowledge in the body of a child is not as perfect as the knowledge in the body of an adult man. Everywhere there are different grades of living entities–in aquatic animals, in the plants and trees, in the reptiles and insects, in birds and beasts and in the civilized and uncivilized human forms of life. Above the human form of life there are demigods, Caranas and Siddhas on up to Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahma lives, and among these demigods there are always different grades of knowledge. But past this material world, in the spiritual sky, everyone is in full knowledge, and therefore all the living entities there are engaged in devotional service to the Lord, either in the Vaikuntha planets or in Krsnaloka. (Krsna Book, Ch 28)

The description of the spiritual world... Suddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness... And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything... So the living entities there, they are full of knowledge. Therefore they do not come into this material world. (661217CC.NY)

Root of forgetfullness is avidya, which is not present in the spiritual world. (cf. Cc. Madhya-lila 6.155)

Cit means that he's full of knowledge. That is not in ignorance. This material happiness is in ignorance. And spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness... Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. (690618SB.NV)

In the spiritual world the form is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Every form is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. That is the difference between material world and spiritual world. (760419BG.MEL)

Nitya-siddhas means they never come in contact with this material world, and even if they come here for some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha. Try to understand. (Bg. Lecture, July 14, 1973, London)

We contrast these descriptions of self-realization and full knowledge regarding the residents of the spiritual worlds with that presented in the GBC Position Booklet. Therein, "full of knowledge" is defined as "possessing only a small portion of knowledge according to ones small capacity and necessity." It is also stated that, "the living entity, covered by envy, cannot recognize that he will suffer in the material world...Covered by lust, the living entity forgets his original knowledge and enters into the material domain to try to satisfy his desires." Here in particular, three gross mistakes are made. The first mistake is the assumption that "full knowledge," in reference to the residents of the spiritual world, can be interpreted to mean that these residents are not fully self realized as shown above and therefore they make the mistake of choosing to go to the material world. The second mistake is that the living entity may be covered by envy and lust while still within the spiritual world. The third mistake is that a resident of the spiritual world has desires to satisfy. These points have already been discussed and validated in this essay.

 

6c- References that the residents of the spiritual world are infallible

 

. . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)

Deathlessness, fearlessness and freedom from the anxieties of old age and disease exist in the kingdom of God. (Bhag. 2.6.19, text)

The spiritual world... is especially meant for those who will never be reborn. (Bhag. 2.6.20, text)

The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful. (Bhag. 2.6.18, purport)

In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, it is stated ...the three-fourths manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

The three-fourths part manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... everything in the transcendental world is everlasting, full of knowledge and bliss without any deterioration. (720426SB.TOK)

The Lord has His internal energy also, which has another creation known to be the Vaikunthalokas, where there is no ignorance, no passion, no illusion and no past and present. With a poor fund of knowledge one may be unable to understand the existence of such things as the Vaikuntha atmosphere, but that does not nullify its existence. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

6d- References that residents of the spiritual world are pure devotees

 

In the spiritual sky there are spiritual planets known as Vaikunthas, which are the residence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees. (Bhag. 3.15.13, text.)

... Vaikuntha planets, in each of which the Supreme Personality of Godhead... enjoys Himself in the association of unlimited numbers of pure devotee associates. (Bhag. 2.2.31, purp.)

The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... are pure devotees. (Bhag. 3.15.17, purp.)

6e- References that pure devotees (such as the residents of the spiritual world) have no personal desires (for sense gratification).

 

In the Vaikuntha planets all the residents are similar in form to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. thay all engage in devotional service to the Lord without desires for sense gratification. (Bhag. 3.15.14, text)

In Vaikunthaloka there is no occupation but the service of the Lord, and this service is not rendered with a purpose. Although every service has a particular result, the devotees never aspire for the fulfillment of their own desires; their desires are fulfilled by rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.14, purport)

... Such transcendental birds stop their own singing simply to hear the glories of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.18, text)

This verse reveals the absolute nature of Vaikuntha. There is no difference between the birds there and the human residents... The special feature of Vaikunthaloka is that there is no question of sense gratification. (Bhag. 3.15.18, purp.)

The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... although crowded by their consorts... cannot be stimulated to passion. (Bhag. 3.15.20, text)

The men are so absorbed in Krsna consciousness that the beautiful bodies of the women cannot attract them... the residents of Vaikuntha have a better standard of pleasure, so there is no need of sex pleasure. (Bhag. 3.15.20, purp.)

A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance. He will not give up his shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord for a single moment-indeed, not for half a moment-even in exchange of the benediction of ruling and enjoying the opulence of the entire universe. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)

Desireless means... to be conscious of one's actual position and thus desire satisfaction only [of] the Supreme Lord. Srila Jiva Gosvami has explained this desirelessness as bhajaniya-parama-purusa-sukha-matra-sva-sukhatvam in his Sandarbha. This means that one should feel happy only by experiencing the happiness of the Supreme Lord. ... the spirit of akamah [desirelessness] is fully exhibited in the spiritual world. (Bhag. 2.3.10, purport).

The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... are pure devotees. They consider glorification of the Lord more important than their own sense gratification. In the Vaikuntha planets there is no question of sense gratification... The inhabitants of Vaikuntha give first preference to the service of the Lord, not their own sense gratification. Serving the Lord in transcendental love yields such transcendental pleasure that, in comparison, sense gratification is counted as insignificant. (Bhag. 3.15.17, purp.)

In the spiritual world one has no desire other than to please the senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Cc. Madhya 19.155, purp.)

Everyone tried to satisfy Krsna–even the cows, the flowers, the fruits, and the water of Vrndavana. This is because everything in Vrndavana is spiritual; nothing is material. (Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 25, Unalloyed Devotion)

The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys, Maharaja Nanda, Yasoda, everyone is simply anxious how to make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. He's acting as the little son of Yasoda, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vrndavana. [710217CC.GOR]

Rupa Goswami has given us the definition of pure devotional service as being anyabhilasita-sunyam, or without desires other than service to please Krsna. Jiva Goswami comments that the word used here is anyabhilasita which means "the habit of acting under extraneous desires which are semi-natural with the person involved." So uttama-bhakti means not only "absence of extraneous desires," but also the complete absence of the very nature from which such extraneous desires arise. Bhaktivinode Thakura corroborates this in his booklet "Bhakti-tattva-viveka " in his analysis of bhakti-abasa. Therein he states that in the [nitya-mukta ] liberated state "the jiva remains free from any material designation and hence within him there is no opportunity for the marginal characteristics of bhakti to exist."

 

Additionally, Visvanatha Cakravartipada in his Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu has defined the svarupa-laksana (intrinsic characteristic) of uttama-bhakti [as possessed by the residents of the spiritual world] as involving activities favorable to Sri Krsna [anukulyena krsnanusilanam ] and the tatastha-laksana (extrinsic characteristic) of uttama-bhakti is described in the first line of the same verse, anyabhilasita-sunyam: uttama bhakti is devoid of all desires other than to please Sri Krsna.

 

References to Pure devotion

 

Pure devotee means he has no other desire, no material desire. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero. 740325BG.BOM

Pure devotee of Krsna. They have no other desire. Anyabhilasita-sunyam. They have no other desire. 740926SB.CAL

What is that pure devotee? Anyabhilasita-sunyam... This is pure devotion: no other desire... 741019SB.MAY

Anyabhilasita-sunyam. Anya. Anya means other than Krsna's service. They have made all, everything zero. We don't want all these things. We simply want to serve Krsna. 720524SB.LA

What is that pure devotional service? anyabhilasita-sunyam... No other desire than to please Krsna.710727SB.NY

Who is a pure devotee? anyabhilasita-sunyam... Pure devotion is anukulyena krsnanu-silanam: simply take to such work and activities which will favorably dispose Krsna. 710410LE.BOM

Anya-bhilasa. Anya means "other than Krsna." Anyabhilasita-sunyam, being completely freed from any other desires 740111mw.la

6f- The residents of the spiritual world are all suddha-sattva/cinmaya-rasa

 

Which is directly under the protection of My spiritual energy of unadulterated bliss. That is the ultimate perfectional goal of the living entity. (Bhag. 3.27.28-29, text)

The Lord's abode, name, fame, entourage, etc., are of the same transcendental quality, and how this transcendental quality differs from the material world is explained herewith in this verse. (Bhag. 2.2.17, purp.)

Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world... They are in the spiritual form, ananda-cinmaya-rasa, enjoying always spiritual bliss in the association of Krsna. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)

In Bhagavat-sandarbha text 75-78, Sri Jiva describes that the Lord's associates have transcendental bodies, possess qualities identical to those of the Lord, they are beyond the influence of time, are all suddha-sattva in nature, eternal, immutable... etc

The Lord and His devotees reside in the Vaikuntha planets, and they are of the same transcendental quality, namely, suddha-sattva, the mode of pure goodness. (Bhag. 3.15.15, purp.)

In the spiritual sky... suddha-sattva, which is a pure spiritual energy that sustains all the Vaikuntha planets with the full opulences of knowledge, wealth, prowess, etc. (Cc. Adi-lila 5.41)

Everything in the Goloka Vrndavana planet is a spiritual expansion of sac-cid-ananda. Everyone there is of the same potency–ananda-cinmaya-rasa. The relationship between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His servitor is cinmaya-rasa. Krsna and His entourage and paraphernalia are of the same cinmaya potency. (Cc. Madhya-lila 19.154, purp.)

References describing Suddha-sattva

 

... description of the spiritual world... Suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness, without any tinge of passion and ignorance... And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything. (661217CC.NY)

Spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness. In the material world there are three stages: ignorance, passion and goodness. The goodness platform is very nice in the material world, but there is another platform, which is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. (690618SB.NV)

The total exhibition of these potencies [ sandhini, samvit and hladini ] is called visuddha-sattva. (Cc. Adi 4.62)

A careful analysis of the qualities of the residents of the spiritual world clearly indicates that they could never desire (or choose) to leave there. Further, we find innumerable references in sastra that Krsna is very favorably disposed to his pure devotees in the spiritual world, carefully protects them, is completely controlled by them and thus would certainly not desire nor make the arrangement that they could so easily fall from his perfect abode:

 

Devotees are Most Dear to the Lord

 

He comes under the control of His devotees. (Bhag. 10.9.19, text)

…certainly conquer Your Lordship. (Bhag. 10.14.3, text)

I am completely under the control of My devotees. (Bhag. 9.4.63, text)

The pure devotees . . . bring Me under their full control. (Bhag. 9.4.66, text)

The pure devotee is always within the core of My heart. (Bhag. 9.4.68, text)

How can I give up such devotees at any time? (Bhag. 9.4.65, text)

Additional similar references are given on our web site at the following URL:

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_3.html

 

 

7- All examples of apparent falldowns of nitya-parsadas from the eternal lila of the Lord cited by proponents of the "fall theory" are not actual falldowns. Tulasi is not an ordinary living entity. It is mentioned many times in sastra and in Srila Prabhupada's purports (pertinent quotes included within this presentation) that the descent of the Lord's nitya-parsadas is for the purpose of His lila and is not in the same category as the appearance of the nitya-baddha living entities. Nor is the descent of Tulasi an example of a resident of the spiritual world becoming envious of Krsna. It is a pastime under the influence of yogamaya not maha-maya.

 

The example of Kala Krsnadasa is inappropriate since he was already in the material world. He is not mentioned in Gaura-Gannodesa-dipika as being Krsna parsada. Furthermore, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not allow him to fall away but protected him and kept him with Him for a year. Kala Krsnadasa was then given the shelter of Nityananda Prabhu and the nectarean service of informing Mother Saci and the residents of Navadvipa of the Lords South Indian tour in great detail.

 

Other so-called examples of falldown from spiritual positions, that have been cited, are in each case a special arrangement by the Lord—spiritually situated devotees were simply taking part in the Lord's transcendental lila. Citraketu did not fall into material life. It is clear from his prayers to the Lord (as Vrtrasura) that he was still very much an exalted devotee, that his bhakti was not covered, and commentators have explained that this [apparent falldown] was a special favor of the Lord for it increased his attachment to the Lord. Srila Prabhupada explains very clearly that Jaya and Vijaya's fall was a special arrangement of the Lord for His lila (Bhag. 3.16.26-27, purp.). Jiva Gosvami writes in Priti-sandarbha, 7, that when Jaya and Vijaya became demons, within they knew themselves and kept their spiritual form.

 

The fall of Bharata Maharaja was also special as he was protected by the Lord. Even in the body of a deer and later as an apparently incoherent Jada Bharat he remembered his past experiences and Krsna consciousness and perfected himself in the next life.

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, in this regard, writes in his commentary on Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.33,

 

Even if they fall, they become more attached to You, just as when King Citraketu, Bharata Maharaja and King Indradyumna had a so-called fall down. In their fallen forms, such as Vrtrasura [previously King Citraketu], their love multiplied hundreds of times. Therefore, the fall of a devotee causes his love to increase.

In Srimad-Bhagavatam, text 10.2.33, it is stated that devotees do not fall like non-devotees for the Lord protects them. In the purport Srila Prabhupada writes,

 

In history there are many instances of devotees like Citraketu, Indradyumna and Maharaja Bharata who circumstantially fell down but were still protected. Maharaja Bharata, for example, because of his attachment to a deer, thought of the deer at the time of death, and therefore in his next life he became a deer (yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram ). Because of protection by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, however, the deer remembered his relationship with the Lord and next took birth in a good brahminical family and performed devotional service (sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate ). Similarly, Citraketu fell down and became a demon, Vrtrasura, but he too was protected.

8- The theory that one can become illusioned and fall introduces imperfection in the [infallible] spiritual world—this is Mayavada philosophy. It derides the concept of the Lord's perfect abode. It is stated explicitly that the spiritual world is a manifestation of the Lord's internal pleasure potency, svarupa-sakti, the Lord's most powerful potency. [cf section 6f]

 

Srila Prabhupada states, "It is a most ludicrous argument to say that the Supreme Lord is overpowered by His own material energy." (Bhag. 3.7.9, purp.) This is the conception of the impersonalists who think that a portion of the Lord's svarupa sakti, the Lord's most powerful sakti, can be covered by maya—that maya can cover brahman. Actually, the fall theory is worse than Mayavada for it suggests that not only brahman but Parabrahman may be covered by maya.

 

It is stated in Bhag. 2.5.13 that maya never appears in front of the Lord, therefore it is apparent that those who are situated on the front side of the Lord, the pure devotees, are never effected by maya. Are we to suggest that the Lord's internal potency is fallible and imperfect? Many references attest to the invincibility of the Lord's internal potency. That the superior energy of the Lord (svarupa-sakti ) can be overwhelmed by the inferior energy of the Lord (maya-sakti ) is not supported anywhere by sastra or by any acaryas. Yet, even disregarding the direct statement of the Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.10, that maya cannot enter the spiritual world, this theory [that all jivas in the material world come by falldown from the spiritual world] requires that the eternal associates of Krsna be influenced by maya while in the spiritual world, in order for them to become illusioned. For "the living entity cannot be forgetful of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya potency." (Bhag. 3.7.5, purp.) Certainly it is considered an imperfection of the spiritual world that one firmly situated under the personal protection of the divine internal potency of the Lord and ecstatically engaged in the Lord's loving transcendental service in "the highest perfectional stage of living conditions," (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport), can fall from that to repeated hellish and degraded lives of birth and death.

 

Are we to accept that uncountable formerly self-realized living entities, billions is just an acre of countryside, all became envious and fell from the bliss of the Lord's personal association? Perhaps Vaikuntha should then be named Sakuntha, the abode of anxiety.

 

evam vadanti rajarsersayah ke ca nanvitahyat sva-vaco

virudhyetanunam te na smaranty uta

Such is the account given by some sages, O wise King, but those who speak in this illogical way are contradicting themselves, having forgotten their own previous statements. (Bhag. 10.77.30, text)

Conclusion:

 

It is our contention that the actual sastric truth regarding the jiva's original positon as presented herein and which is thoroughly supported by all our acaryas, has eluded many devotees due to their offenses to highly situated Vaisnavas. A chronology of events surrounding the siksa of Srila B. R. Sridhara Maharaja and the many offenses committed against His Holiness has been documented in the book Our Affectionate Guardians, available online at:

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/affection_unabridged/index.html

 

 

A sastric reference to the anartha called tattva-vibrahma is given by Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Bhajana-rahasya, wherein it is stated that one remains in illusion about different tattva's, such as jiva-tattva, guru-tattva, vaisnava-tattva, and rasa-tattva due to one's offenses etc. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his Madhurya Kadambini quotes a verse from Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu regarding the offenses which lead to a material conception of spiritual topics. The effect of one's offenses is that one developes the same qualities which they criticize of another. We feel strongly that the misunderstanding of this subject belies a fundamental lack of comprehension of the essential substance of Krsna consciousness.

 

A lengthier presentation with many additional references is available on our Web Site:

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva.html

 

 

The only subject not covered in this paper, which is however available in our longer Web presentation, is the topic of "Preaching is not always siddhanta:"

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_8.html

 

 

We suggest than an example of preaching something other than siddhanta (cf. Bg. 15.6: "Once going there, one never returns.") is shown in the following conversation, which directly contradicts Bg. 15.6:

 

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." (Conversation, Los Angeles, May 13, 1973)

 

 

Please address correspondence to:

 

Swami B B Vishnu

Sri Narasingha Chaitanya Matha

P. O. Box 21, Doddagosai Ghatt

Sri Rangapatna, Karnataka 571 438 INDIA

Phone: (08236-252-627)

Email: Swami B B Vishnu or gosai at gosai dot com

 

 

Tattva articles & books: http://www.gosai.com/tattva/

 

Swami Vishnu Articles: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/index.html

 

Jiva Index: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva.html

 

This URL: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva-tattva.html

 

Home: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/

 

[gHari]

The other day I saw a big fish - well, about a foot long. It went from one side of the river to the other, and then back again, again and again. It could go wherever it pleased because it could handle the currents in the center of the river. The little minnows however, would have to remain on one side or the other depending on their birthplace. They just could not navigate the strong midstream current.

 

Of course, if eternity is eternity, and the soul is eternal, then clearly it hasn't fallen even now, even though the clouds may appear to cover the sun momentarily.

 

[krsna]

 

 

<font color="blue">Of course, if eternity is eternity,

 

and the soul is eternal,

 

then clearly it hasn't fallen even now,

 

even though the clouds may appear

 

to cover the sun momentarily.

</font color>

 

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

If Jiva does not fall in the sense that he is not sinful in the spiritual world, still he leaves it due to some material attachments. Read the Ekadashi stories and you will see that some observances give one a limited although very long stay in Vaikuntha after which he returns to the material world to finally attain permanent stay in vaikuntha. Padma purana and Narada purana give such examples. Are these fall downs or just vaikuntha leaving?. What is clear is that those who leave are not inimical to the Lord at the time of departure.

Radha kunda das

[krsna]

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5. - "Narada's Instructions on Srimad-Bhagavatam for Vyasadeva."

27 - O great sage, as soon as I got a taste for the Personality of Godhead, my attention to hear of the Lord was unflinching. And as my taste developed, I could realize that it was only in my ignorance that I had accepted gross and subtle coverings, for both the Lord and I are transcendental.

 

Srila Prabhupada teaches us : Ignorance in material existence is compared to darkness, and in all Vedic literatures the Personality of Godhead is compared to the sun. Wherever there is light there cannot be darkness. Hearing of the Lord's pastimes is itself transcendental association with the Lord because there is no difference between the Lord and His transcendental pastimes. To become associated with the supreme light is to dissipate all ignorance. By ignorance only, the conditioned soul wrongly thinks that both he and the Lord are products of material nature. But in fact the Personality of Godhead and the living beings are transcendental, and they have nothing to do with the material nature. When ignorance is removed and it is perfectly realized that there is nothing existing without the Personality of Godhead, then nescience is removed. Since the gross and subtle bodies are emanations from the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge of light permits one to engage both of them in the service of the Lord. The gross body should be engaged in acts of rendering service to the Lord (as in bringing water, cleansing the temple or making obeisances, etc.). The path of arcana, or worshiping the Lord in the temple, involves engaging one's gross body in the service of the Lord. Similarly, the subtle mind should be engaged in hearing the transcendental pastimes of the Lord, thinking about them, chanting His name, etc. All such activities are transcendental. None of the gross or subtle senses should otherwise be engaged. Such realization of transcendental activities is made possible by many, many years of apprenticeship in the devotional service, but simply attraction of love for the Personality of Godhead, as it was developed in Narada Muni, by hearing, is highly effective.

 

[krsna]

 

Srila Saraswati Thakur [re: Guest]

02/12/04 03:56 AM Edit Reply

 

 

Sri Brahma Samhita, TEXT 21

sa nityo nitya-sambandhah prakritis ca paraiva sa

 

WORD FOR WORD:

sah--that (jiva); nityah--eternal; nitya-sambandhah--possessing an eternal relationship; prakrtih--potency; ca--and; para--spiritual; eva--certainly; sa--that.

 

TRANSLATION

The same jiiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning joined to the Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship. He is transcendental spiritual potency.

 

PURPORT (by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati)

Just as the sun is eternally associated with his rays so the transcendental Supreme Lord is eternally joined with the jivas. The jives are the infinitesimal particles of His spiritual effulgence and are, therefore, not perishable like mundane things. Jivas, being particles of Godhead's effulgent rays, exhibit on a minute scale the qualities of the Divinity. Hence jivas are identical with the principles of knowledge, knower, egoism, enjoyed, meditator and doer. Krishna is the all-pervading, all-extending Supreme Lord; while jivas have a different nature from His, being His atomic particles. That eternal relationship consists in this that the Supreme Lord is the eternal master and jivas are His eternal servants. Jivas have also sufficient eligibility in respect at the mellow quality of the Divinity. Apareyam itas tv anyam prakrtim viddhi me param. By this verse of the Gita it is made known that jivas are His transcendental potency. All the qualities of the unalloyed soul are above the eightfold qualities such as egotism, etc., pertaining to His acit potency. Hence the jiva potency, though very small in magnitude, is still superior to acit potency or Maya. This potency has another name, viz., tatastha or marginal potency being located on the line demarcating the spheres of the spiritual and mundane potencies. He is susceptible to the influence of the material energy owing to his small magnitude. But so long as he remains submissive to Krishna, the Lord of Maya, he is not liable to the influence of Maya. The worldly afflictions, births and rebirths are the concomitants of the fettered condition of souls fallen into the clutches of the deluding potency from a time that has no beginning.

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/brahma-samhita3.htm

 

Sri Jiva Goswami [re: Guest]

02/12/04

 

21 The same jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning joined to the Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship. He is transcendental spiritual potency.**

 

Commentary by Srila Jiva Gosvami

 

In this verse the author describes the relationship between the individual spirit soul and the Supreme Lord. The word "nitya" here means "for all time, without either beginning or end". This means that as the sun and the sunlight have an eternal relationship, so the Supreme Lord and the individual spirit soul also have an eternal relationship. In Sri Narada-pancaratra it is said:

 

"The individual spirit soul is spiritual and conscious. It lives on the border between the spiritual and material worlds. It can leave that border, enter the material world, and become contaminated by the modes of nature. That is said to be the spirit soul."

 

In the Bhagavad-gita (15.7) Lord Krsna declares;

 

"The living entities in this conditioner world are My parts and parcels and they are eternal."*

 

The individual spirit soul is an impartial judge, a witness of both the original spiritual world and the reflection that is the material world. In that sense the individual soul is called "prakrti". This use of the word "prakrti" is seen in these words spoken by Lord Krsna in Bhagavad-gita (7.5):

 

"There is a superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities."

 

The eternal relationship between the Supreme Lord and the individual spirit souls is also seen in these words of Mundaka Upanisad (3.1.1) and Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.6):

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul are like two friendly birds sitting on the same tree."

Sri Jiva [re: Guest]

02/12/04

 

Sri Jiva Goswami's statement is perfectly clear.

 

The soul can decide to leave "the border between the spiritual and material worlds" and enter the material world.

 

In that borderline existence, according to Sri Brahma Samhita, the souls are existing like rays of sunlight surrounding the sun.

 

Did anyone ever fall from Vaikuntha? There is no statement anywhere in the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Chaitanya Caritamrta etc. which says that any souls have ever fallen from Vaikuntha. Sometimes for lila, Krishna's associates come to this world. But there is no statement anywhere in the Vedic literature that a soul can fall from Vaikuntha and become engrossed in samsara, permanently.

[theist]

Yet we speak of saving the fallen souls. Contradiction? Or adjustment made by Madyam's to preach? And who did Lord Caitanya come to save if no one is fallen?

 

Is the message of salvation then spreading the understanding that no one has fallen? That even now we are in the presence of the Lord?

 

It seems one should hold both understandings simulatneously somehow.

[Guest guest]

Isn't it in the Mahabharat or Bhagvat a story when Arjuna decided to save a brahmin's son without the help of Krishna. He decided to forget Krishna, decided with his ego to do something on his own independent of Krishna. And if he failed he would take his own life. So he failed and was about to take his own life. But Krishna did not mind that Arjuna forgot him for Arjuna was a devotee. He gave himself to Krishna just once therefore Krishna will never leave him even if he desired to leave Krishna!

 

Someone know the story?

[Guest guest]

 

In Sri Narada-pancaratra it is said:

 

"The individual spirit soul is spiritual and conscious. It lives on the border between the spiritual and material worlds. It can leave that border, enter the material world, and become contaminated by the modes of nature. That is said to be the spirit soul."

 

 

No. Sri Narada-pancaratra DOES NOT say this. This is an expansion on the translation. Please look up the verse and see.

 

 

Sri Jiva Goswami's statement is perfectly clear.

 

The soul can decide to leave "the border between the spiritual and material worlds" and enter the material world.

 

 

 

No. Sri Jiva Goswami DOES NOT say this. Nor does Sri Narada-pancaratra say this. This is totally incorrect. Seems a faulty translation was used.

[Guest guest]

Sri Jiva in ParamAtma-sandarbha (47):

 

tadevamananta eva jIvAkhyAs taTasthAH zaktayaH. Tatra tAsAM vargadvayam. Eko vargo’nAditaH eva bhagavadunmukhaH, anyas tvanAditaH eva bhagavat-parAGmukhaH-svabhAvatastadIya jJAna-bhAvAt tadIya-jJAnAbhAvAcca.

 

“In this way the marginal energies called jIvas are unlimited. They have two classes. One class is devoted to the Lord beginninglessly (anAdi) and the other is not devoted to the Lord beginninglessly (anAdi). This is because the former class of jIvas naturally have knowledge of the Lord and the second class of jIvas <font color="red">naturally</font color> do not have knowledge of the Lord.”

 

Sri Jiva Priti-sandarbha (1):

 

atha jIvazca tadIyo’pi tajjJAna-saMsargAbhAva-yuktatvena tan-mAyA-parAbhUtaH sannAtma-svarUpa-jJAna-lopAn-mAyA-kalpitopAdhyAvezAc-canAdi-saMsAra-duHkhena sambadhyate iti paramAtma-sandarbhAdAveva nirUpitam asti.

 

“Although the jIva is part of the Lord, he is devoid of knowledge about Him and this deficiency has no beginning. Because of this he is covered by mAyA. This being so, he is united with the beginningless material miseries because the knowledge of his svarUpa is covered and he is absorbed in the upAdhis, designations, created by mAyA. This was explained in the ParamAtma-sandarbha.”

 

 

Sri Visvanatha comments on Bhagavata (3.7.10):

 

tatra bhagavataH pRSTha-sthitayA anAdyavidyayA tamaH svarUpayA anAdi-vaimukhya-rUpa-bhagavat-pRSThasthAnAM jIvAnAM jJAnam yal lupyate tasya na vastutvaM kAraNaM nApi prayojanaM kim apy asti.

 

“Avidya (ignorance), which is anadi, is situated on the backside of the Lord and has the nature of ignorance. She covers the knowledge of the jivas who are situated on the backside of the Lord and are non-devotees. Their non-devotion is anadi. There is no real reason or purpose for their knowledge being covered.”

 

[Guest guest]

Baladeva writes in his Govinda Bhasya on VedAnta SUtra 4.4.22:

 

na ca sarvezvaraH zrI hariH svAdhina muktaM svalokAt-kadAcit pAtyitumicchet mukto vA kadAcit taM jIhased iti zakyaM saGkitum.

 

“One cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated souls ever desire to leave the Lord.”

[krsna]

 

 

[spoken by Srila Gour Govinda Swami upon his return to Bhubaneswar, Orissa, India on 4th March, 1995,

after attending the ANNUAL GBC MEETING (his last) in Sridham Mayapur]]

 

[unedited transcript (from audio tape)]

 

excerpt:

 

 

So, so many quotations are there. Srila Prabhupada's books, huh? Jiva never falls from Vaikuntha. You exercise in your own brains for years! It's inconceivable, quite inconceivable. Yes, mahajanas said, "dharmsya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah …?…acintya…?…bhava…?…" (not verified). What is acintya, inconceivable, don't add any of your material logic and arguments to it. no. Don't add. "tarkos pratisthah srutayo vibhinna na sav rsir yasya matir na bhinnam dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah." That's all Mahajanas are saying. You cannot establish the Vedic Truth through your material logic and argument. If you do like that, then it will become different, different, different, different, "yata mata tata bata", you cannot do it. "dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah"---what Mahajanas said, just accept it. Finished.

 

When Mahajanas sometimes say different things, contradictory statement, 'geet' (??) also, acaryas do it, as sometimes when they need it. But nobody is prepared to hear the -- rather, you could say, you are ridiculed. Yes, you are ridiculed. That's a fact. Nobody wants that some experts to grow. Many persons, they are many post-graduates in there. Better they are all liquors, drunkards, smokers, ganja. That's very good. (laughs) It's going on, in this material world. Yes. Some "expert" comes up, huh? Some "specialist" comes up, some post-graduate, eh? degree-holder comes up. No one wants it. "No! we don't want it!" Yes.

 

This is very painful. I'm getting, I've been getting some pain, and it is growing, growing, growing every year, not decreasing, growing, growing, not decreasing, growing, hmm…

 

Bhaktivinod Thakur has said, hmm, when you want to establish truth, many sides untruth will come to suppress it. Yes, that's a fact. "mahajan rakhya" (raksa?) and Bhaktivinod says, "This is God's will, God's will." Yes, this is God's will, Lord's will, yes Lord's will.

 

So I've compiled some quotations from Prabhupad's saying(s). I gave to some of them some copies of them. (chuckles). They (helped?/heard?) me compiling it…oh! one quotation-- When there are apparent contradictory statements, what to do? Prabhupad has given direction.

 

I said, "Follow the direction, then you have to consult the acaryas, consult Mahajans, consult the Vedas, Vedic authority, Mahajans, what they have said, just accept it." isn't it? Prabhupad has given that direction. If you won't follow Prabhupad-direction, how can you solve this problem? You cannot resolve it.