Sri Ram Temple attacked in ayodhya today !

[Guest guest]

Terrorists in ayodhya temple today

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200507051301.htm?headline=Terrorists~storm~Ram~temple,~killed~in~encounter

There was a temple at the site ,as per archaeological facts here :-

http://hinduism.about.com/cs/temples/a/aa082503a.htm

An excerpt from the above: -

"Among the excavation yields was a mutilated sculpture of divine couple , carved architectural members including foliage patterns and lotus motifs, and 50 pillar bases with brickbat foundation associated with a huge structure..."

[Guest guest]

Ayodhya attackers killed, Lashkar hand suspected

 

Terror attack in Ayodhya foiled

[Guest guest]

As a Vaishnava, I sympathize with the victims of terror attacks. Terrorism should be strongly condemned. But there are some factuals errors. First, there is no Ram temple there. It's been alleged that there was once a temple and so on. Second, the fanaticism of the Hindus must've provoked the Muslims into doing this desperate act. Finally, it is fashionable to blame terrorist groups, while the real enemy is within and its name is fundamentalism.

 

Unless Hindus in general and Vaishnavas in particular give up fanaticism, this sort of thing will continue. People who claim to be vaishnavas shouldn't steal someone else's holy place and worship Lord Rama there. they ought to see Lord Ram and Lord Krishna everywhere. That's real Vaishnavam.

[Guest guest]

As a Vaishnava, I sympathize with the victims of terror attacks. Terrorism should be strongly condemned. But there are some factuals errors. First, there is no Ram temple there. It's been alleged that there was once a temple and so on. Second, the fanaticism of the Hindus must've provoked the Muslims into doing this desperate act. Finally, it is fashionable to blame terrorist groups, while the real enemy is within and its name is fundamentalism.

 

Unless Hindus in general and Vaishnavas in particular give up fanaticism, this sort of thing will continue. People who claim to be vaishnavas shouldn't steal someone else's holy place and worship Lord Rama there. they ought to see Lord Ram and Lord Krishna everywhere. That's real Vaishnavam.

 

 

 

Prabhu,

 

You have very nice intentions.

 

but DID YOU EVEN READ this AT ALL ?

 

http://hinduism.about.com/cs/temples/a/aa082503a.htm

 

In brief Acreological survey of india(ASI) has found a huge temple here, including desecreted dieties of their Lordships !!!

 

Here are two more books on 'Hindu temples and what happened to them'

 

http://www.voi.org/books/htemples1/

http://www.voi.org/books/htemples2/

 

Please understand no culture , including vaishnava culture can live without coming in full terms with it's own history.

 

SAYING there is no temple does not make it so, in the light of the above evidence.

 

Also speaking about the facts of temple desecretion does not MAKE ONE A FANATIC. It is plain and simple and pure TRUTH.

 

SRI RAMA CHANDRA is GOD wether you are hindu, muslim or anything else. Saying that HIS TEMPLE was not exsisting at HIS BIRTH SITE,EVEN WHEN THERE IS HARD EVIDENCE, NOW THAT IS SURELY FANATIC !

 

EVEN LORD KRISHNA's birth temple was descreted, and there stands a masjid if you have been to SRI MATHURA DHAM.

 

How much hard heart can you have ?

 

It is like someone is harrased and you blame the harrased person, as a fanatic, if he says he was harrrased, you see , it is not even human.

You can choose to be like that, but for heavans sake do not expect everyone to be like you !

[Guest guest]

 

Second, the fanaticism of the Hindus must've provoked the Muslims into doing this desperate act.

 

 

That's like saying if you were raped, then you must have done something to deserve it.

 

What an enlightened comment.

 

[Guest guest]

If you're a follower of Sanatan Dharm, then you ought to forgive and forget. If this trend continues, people might start digging every place around the world hoping to find ancient monuments and temples. That doesnt sound right, does it?

 

Hence, hindus should give up their mindless fundamentalism and focus on Lord Ram within their own hearts and minds. You really think Ram or Krishna wants temples built by fanatics? I think not. They want your devotion.

[theist]

Why don't you advise the Muslims to forgive and forget. Why nothing to say concerning this terrorist attack? You sound like a terrorist sympathizer.

 

Why not a Temple and a Mosque side by side?

[gHari]

Tell that to Arjuna when he says "Govinda, I shall not fight". Tell that to Hanuman. Tell that to Nrsimhadeva. That is not vaisnavism; it is Ghandiism. If Rama is in my heart, my hands and tongue will not allow His abuse.

 

 

[Guest guest]

If you're a follower of Sanatan Dharm, then you ought to forgive and forget. If this trend continues, people might start digging every place around the world hoping to find ancient monuments and temples. That doesnt sound right, does it?

 

Hence, hindus should give up their mindless fundamentalism and focus on Lord Ram within their own hearts and minds. You really think Ram or Krishna wants temples built by fanatics? I think not. They want your devotion.

 

 

 

 

destroying a TEMPLE , and then building a mosque over a TEMPLE is an act of FANACTICS.

 

Reclaiming the LORD RAM'S BIRTHPLACE and building a temple there IS AN ACT OF DEVOTION AND NOT FANATICISM.

 

[Guest guest]

Tell that to Arjuna when he says "Govinda, I shall not fight". Tell that to Hanuman. Tell that to Nrsimhadeva. That is not vaisnavism; it is Ghandiism. If Rama is my heart, my hands and tongue will not allow His abuse.

 

 

 

GHARI ji

 

How perfectly you have said !!

 

Forgetting LORD KRISHNA's GITA , is what has put us in this situation in the first place !

 

[Guest guest]

It applies to all people, including Muslims. But Muslims aren't the ones opening old wounds, are they? Hindus are. So in this case, Muslims seem blameless. Terrorists have no religion, even if they commit atrocities in the name of religion.

 

Why not a temple and a mosque side by side? It might hurt muslim sentiments, thats why not. Hindus have thousands of temples, why grab muslim land? Isn't that terrorism too?

[Guest guest]

Please dont compare people of kali yuga with Mahaviras like Arjuna, Hanuman. Those devotees fought for truth and justice with Krishna guiding them every step. The 'devotees' of kali yuga aren't fighting for truth, they are creating trouble in disputed area.

 

If these so-called devotees want to fight for truth, as Arjuna did, then let them fight REAL terrorists, the ones who terrorize innocents. Plus, Arjuna had Krishna to guide him, talk to him face to face. Are these kali yuga devotees speaking to Krishna and acting on his advice? I highly doubt it. They haven't seen krisha, nor has he spoken to them giving them instructions to steal land etc.

[Guest guest]

causes so much trouble. is it worth going through all this trouble, inciting Muslims to violence and hindus reacting to that and so on? Would Ram want a temple that way?

[gHari]

Because Krsna did not speak to us directly, then we should not follow His instruction? If we were capable, Krsna would come and talk to us directly, just like He did to Arjuna. How can we think ourselves worthy of accepting the same advice as Arjuna received? We are so arrogant.

 

We cannot act since Krsna does not govern our every breath? When the Muslim horde comes to destroy our temple and Deities we should simply stand by and watch .... in the name of peace? I cannot relate to such foolishness. It appears that India can no longer relate to it either. They are about to right the wrong of their past indifference and weakness. The bullies will eat their pie, and the world will stand by watching in full support.

 

The world will know the jihad horrors inflicted upon India for thousands of past generations. This world will not allow such a thing to happen ever again, anywhere. The true shame of Islam is about to end the glory of jihad everywhere once and for all, or destroy Islam forever.

 

[theist]

 

It applies to all people, including Muslims. But Muslims aren't the ones opening old wounds, are they? Hindus are. So in this case, Muslims seem blameless.

 

 

Seriously are you blind? It was Muslim terrorists that just attacked with a car bomb and automatic weapons!!! Head out of the sand friend.

 

 

Terrorists have no religion, even if they commit atrocities in the name of religion.

 

 

Yes of course this is not even human activity let alone advanced spirituality or religion.

 

 

Why not a temple and a mosque side by side? It might hurt muslim sentiments, thats why not. Hindus have thousands of temples, why grab muslim land? Isn't that terrorism too?

 

 

LOL "Muslims sentiments." Perhaps they would have to grow up a little and tolerate others and their ways of worhsip. Afterall it is none of their damn business. I realize this has never been a Muslims trait but they better learn fast.

 

[krsna]

 

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[krsna]

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Guest guest]

But don't kid yourself that you're Arjuna. He fought the 'enemy' without hate or fear. You, on the other hand, hate the 'enemy' as well as fear him. Try to read the Gita, preferably Srila Prabhupada's version and follow Lord Krishna's message. Act according to your swabhava and love Krisha, that's your dharma in this material world. You're no Kshatriya, so stop acting like one. Cultivate devotion.

[Guest guest]

Seriously are you blind? It was Muslim terrorists that just attacked with a car bomb and automatic weapons!!! Head out of the sand friend.***

 

They were terrorists, not Muslim terrorists. Terrorists have no religion. So why call them muslims? Second, I wasn't referring to this particular episode. This is an effect, so what is the cause? Hindu fundamentalism has driven the Muslims to indulge in these desperate acts. So you see, that is the real cause.

 

LOL "Muslims sentiments." Perhaps they would have to grow up a little and tolerate others and their ways of worhsip. Afterall it is none of their damn business. I realize this has never been a Muslims trait but they better learn fast.***

 

Muslims are not asking for temples to be destroyed and mosques installed in those places. On the other hand, Hindus are. So who's hurting who? Whilst Muslims allow hindus to worship in their temples, why are hindus not extending teh same courtesy? Why are hindus not allowing others to worship as they see fit? Why this fanaticism?

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

They were terrorists, not Muslim terrorists. Terrorists have no religion. So why call them muslims?

 

 

You must be paralyzed in the real world if you believe this.

 

The basic justification provided by terrorists of that region for their mindless acts is that they are following the Quran directive of killing infidels with the blessings of Allah. They have been brainwashed enough (by the relgiion) to believe that these acts of murder and destruction will fetch them a place in heaven.

 

A simple look at the names of these idiots will suffice. If you want to pretend that Islam is not a destructive religion, then you will have a very tough time getting anyone to believe you.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

 

It might hurt muslim sentiments

 

 

Well yes, we must not hurt anyone's sentiment. Right ?

 

What about the sentiments of demons ? Prahalad should not have hurt hiranyakashipu,You see, all that hiranyakashipu was saying that Vishnu is not God, and he would kill him if he saw him. 'Deity desecration' - sound simsilar !

 

This is the very kind of sentiment that is causing so many hindus including vaishnavas to die along with their culture, in pakistan and bangladesh today ! Do not believe me, see here - hrcbm.org , after seeting that if you no change of heart , then i cannot argue further.

 

The same thing ahppened in kandhar(afghanistan) , kashmir , punjab, etc.. in the past.

 

Here is an interesing story that fits this thread !

 

The Gullible Sheep and the Cunning Lion

By Oskar Freysinger

member of the Swiss .

 

On a green pasture lived a flock of sheep. One day a lion appeared and asked to join them in eating some of the abundant grass. The sheep, having never seen a lion before, bleated a welcome to him and led him the best pasture.

 

The lion thanked them most graciously and began to pretend to eat and smack his lips. When nightfall came and the herd was asleep, he killed a sheep that had strayed from the rest and devoured it.

The next day he again mingled with the grass eaters and behaved as he had done the day before, only to once again eat fresh meat that night.

 

So it followed that every night another sheep disappeared, leaving nothing but traces of blood on the grass. The flock, bewildered by these mysterious nocturnal murders, began to be afraid.

 

Then the lion turned to his sheep companions and disclosed to them that at night he had seen a wolf prowling around the pasture. He told them that the wolf belonged to a degenerate and especially violent group of predatory animals and was probably responsible for the sad disappearance of their fellows.

 

If they would trust him, he would soon put an end to these sinister doings, since while himself belonging to the carnivorous species, he was, as they would surely know, from the pleasant, civilised and vegetarian-oriented kind.

 

There was no greater concern for him than to put an end to this wolf terrorism, since it also caused great damage to his own reputation. The flock bleated their agreement and gratitude at this great self-sacrifice for the general good.

 

The next day a lioness appeared with her cubs. The lion introduced them as his collaborators. The sheep were very thankful for this reinforcement and gave the new members of their flock an enthusiastic reception.

 

However, from this day onward more sheep disappeared in spite of the untiring efforts of the big cats. The lion explained that now, after sundown, whole packs of wolves were lurking around the pasture, so that while he could indeed ward off the worst, he could not prevent heavy losses.

 

But he would continue fighting to assure the survival of the grass eaters, whose view of life and whose eating habits had become his own as well as those of his relatives. In saying this, he showed such righteous anger for the perfidious behaviour of the wolves that the sheep were moved by such dedication. They awarded him the Order of the Golden Fleece and dubbed him the Knight of the Dandelion.

 

Some sceptics disturbed the investiture, because they harboured distrust in their hearts and dared to claim that the lions preached grass at day and fed on meat at night. They were, of course, bleated down and muzzled.

 

It was regarded as a just punishment for their ungracious and disrespectful behaviour that the following night they out of all the others became victims of the wolves.

 

Then an old ram reminded his fellow species to remember the long forgotten ritual of the sacrifice of meat as remission for their lifelong grazing and to prepare their souls for the eternal pastures of the prairie.

 

From now on the relatives of the lion, who day by day became more numerous and integrated themselves with greater ease into the world of the sheep, gave wise instructions to be strictly followed so as to assure the survival of the flock.

 

It followed that the sheep, the number of which continued to decrease constantly, submitted themselves to these new regulations and even learned from the lions, to keep apart so as to be less noticeable targets.

 

The so-called vegetarian cats also ordained that for the purpose of better camouflage the sheep should grow manes and learn to roar like lions. Those aims, however, were only partially achieved.

 

Now every night the short-maned flock scattered in all directions, bleating and attempting to roar, only to reunite the next day in even lesser numbers to complain about the wolves and to render homage to the group of lions, in the middle of which they would soon form a small white core surrounded by yellow manes.

 

When the last sheep was taken by the throat, it willingly gave its blood in recompense to the lions for having protected it for such a long time from the invisible wolves.

 

As for the lions, they picked out another flock to begin their civilizing work again.

[vijay]

 

I am delighted that you are reading the material herein, and commend your interest in spiritual things. As we consider the question, 'Does Islam teach violence?', please understand that we are not inferring that all who call themselves Muslim are violent people. Indeed, there are many people who call Islam their religion, and have no manner of violence in their conduct. Our objective is not to consider any individual Muslim, nor even a segment of the Muslim population, but rather to examine the religion of Islam, and consider whether or not it obligates true followers to be violent.

 

What Does Islam Teach About Peace?

 

Before turning our attention to a discussion of violence, it seems prudent to first consider what Islam teaches about peace. The Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, commands Muslims to be at peace with one another, and declares peace upon all Allah's worshippers (Surah 6:54; Surah 27:59). The follower of Islam is to call to remembrance, "...the Favor of Allah bestowed upon you when you were enemies, and how He united your hearts, so that by His Favor you became brothers." (Surah 3:103) However, the true gauge of peace is not found in one's conduct toward those of like faith, but rather in the behavior shown to others.

 

Some texts in the Qur'an lead one to believe that Muslims and non-Muslims are able to co-exist peacefully. To express the tolerant nature of Islam, it is written, "There is no compulsion in religion..." (Surah 2:256) Furthermore, followers of Islam are commanded to return peace for peace to those who are unbelievers. (Surah 4:90; Surah 8:61).

 

Though peace is charged, it is easily displaced by intolerance, hatred and warring. The Qur'an instructs, "Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth, being among those who have been given the Book (Bible and the Torah), until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated." (Surah 9:29)

 

In the very texts which incite peace, the Muslim is commanded to "...restrain their hands, take them and kill them wherever you find them." (Surah 4:91) And again, "...O Prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty patient men among you, you shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred, they shall overcome a thousand, for they are a nation who do not understand." (Surah 8:65)

 

It is confusing, even distressing to see such extreme disagreement. Peace and war are commanded in the same text, upon the same people. However, the Qur'an permits itself the right of abrogation. "If We supersede any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring a better one or one similar. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things!" (Surah 2:106)

 

A command which is given (i.e., to be peaceful to 'unbelievers'), may be supplanted by a subsequent direction (i.e., to kill 'unbelievers'). And indeed, the frequency of commands to deal peacefully and with forbearance fails in comparison to those which provoke fighting, killing and destruction upon unbelievers.

 

The Obligation of Jihad

 

Much attention has been given to the word "Jihad" by Islamic scholars, Christian teachers, and many other interested parties. "Jihad" can most certainly be an inner struggle for purity. We read, "Those who struggle [jihad, wjs] in Our cause, We will surely guide them to Our ways; and Allah is with those who do good." (Surah 29:69)

 

Jihad can also refer to an intellectual struggle. The Koran instructs, "...do not obey the unbelievers, but struggle [jihad, wjs] mightily with it (the Qur'an)." (Surah 25:52). However, the most prominent use of "Jihad" is in reference to physical warfare. Allah insists: "It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, so that He raises it above all religions, much as the unbelievers dislike it. Believers! Shall I direct you to a commerce that will save you from a painful punishment? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger and struggle [jihad, wjs] for His way with your possessions and yourselves. That is better for you, if you but knew." (Surah 61:9-11)

 

Regarding "Jihad", S.F. Mahmud writes: "A Muslim must always be ready to fight for his faith and for Allah. Jihad (holy war) is enjoined upon him, but the cause must be genuine and must truly serve Islam. If he realizes that his services are really needed, then he cannot refuse to serve. Thus Islam requires no conscription or forced fighting. To fight for his ideals is a duty with a Muslim." It must be determined then what a "genuine" cause for Jihad is.

 

The Koran declares: "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight against you, but do not aggress. Allah does not love the aggressors... Fight against them until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah. But if they desist, there shall be no aggression except against the harmdoers." (Surah 2:190, 193) The Muslim is not to be an aggressor, but is justified and commanded to respond with force to the aggressor. However, to appreciate what this means, and under what conditions this course of action is warranted, we must understand what is regarded as aggression against a Muslim.

 

In his book CRUCIFIXION OR CRUCI-FICTION, Ahmed Deedat pens: "In the battle for the hearts and minds of mankind, 'cruci-FICTION' is the only card the Christian holds. Free him from his infatuation and you will have freed the Muslim world from missionary aggression and harassment." The mere teaching of Christian doctrine is considered to be an attack on the Muslim world, and demands a response "...until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah."

 

Till Religion is for Allah Alone

 

It is commendable when one, believing to have the truth, makes a considerable effort to share it with others. However, Islam not only binds upon the Muslim the need to take the religion of Allah forth, but to overcome those who oppose by force. Followers of Islam have a mandate to fight until Islam is the only religion. This theme saturates the pages of the Koran. "Tell the unbelievers that if they abandon their ways He will forgive them what is past, but, if they return, that was indeed the way of their forefathers who have passed away. Fight them until persecution is no more and the Religion of Allah reigns supreme." (Surah 8:39-40, compare Surah 2:132; Surah 3:19, 85; Surah 48:16, 28-29; Surah 61:9; Surah 110).

 

In his book, Islam: A Concise Introduction, Dennis Roberts states: "Jihad literally means an effort or striving. It includes a religious war against unbelievers with the object of converting them to Islam or subduing all opposition (See Koran 9:5; 4:76; 2:214; 8:39). It is the sacred duty of the Muslim nation to ensure that Islam triumphs over all religions. It is considered a general duty of the nation as a whole, not of individuals." This stands, not simply as a Westerner's view of Islam, but confirms the words of now deceased Islamic leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini: "The governments of the world should know that Islam cannot be defeated. Islam will be victorious in all countries of the world and Islam and the teachings of the Qur'an will prevail all over the world."

 

How far is the Muslim to go, that religion will be all for Allah? "The recompense of those who make war against Allah and His Messenger and spread corruption in the land is that they are to be killed or crucified, or have their hand and a foot cut off on opposite sides, or be expelled from the land. For them is shame in this world and a great punishment in the Everlasting Life." (Surah 5:33) Time and again, the Qur'an commands "...fight in the way of Allah."

 

The Example of Muhammad

 

The Qur'an entreats Muslims to worship Allah, and Him alone. Muhammad has become to the people of Islam an example to follow after in the service of Allah. "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Those who are with him are harsh against the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) Muhammad declared of himself: "I have been ordered to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity..." (Hadiths Vol.1, 2:24)

 

And so it is, that a study of Muhammad's life reveals a man of war. He was a man of the sword, and incited those who would follow him to be likewise. Today, those who truly desire to live as Muslims will themselves be as Muhammad was. They will declare religion to be of Allah, and fight all who stand in opposition.

 

Conclusion

 

May the reader consider carefully the nature of Islam. Though it speaks of peace, tolerance and equality, the Qur'an's self proclaimed right of abrogation reduces these claims to empty words. The overall picture of the Qur'an is one of violence to non-Muslims. The comments of Islamic leaders motivate followers to war against non-Muslims. Muhammad, the Apostle of Allah, was himself a violent man, killing those who opposed his religion. Though not all Muslims may conduct themselves in like manner, without doubt, Islam teaches its followers to be violent.

 

[Guest guest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm

 

Several injured in London blasts

Firefighters aid an injured passenger at Aldgate station

Several people have been injured after explosions on the Underground network and a double-decker bus in London.

[vijay]

Getting back home will be a nightmare

[Guest guest]

I know there are many learned people here.The problem with Indians is that we don't learn from our past mistakes and thats the reason we face such situations everytime.Before independence, it was the British that tore us apart and now its we who are hell bent on destroying ourselves.We must understand that when the Masjid was demolished in the early 90's , it was not because the sangh parivar or the BJP were spiritually aroused at that moment. We all know that it was done for political gains.And even when they raise these issues sporadically,they don't do it because of spiritual inclination.Politics,politics,politics.

 

And when things like these happen, most of us blame the religion.We start hating each other and thats what our neighbours want.Nothing can destoy India. Only religion can.

Just spark off Hindu-Muslim thing, we will anyways collapse.

 

A temple or a mosque, does it really matter??How many of us , who have posted here, posted really because of their love for sree Ram and not because they were provoked by someone.

Why not just build a school for poor,or a meditation center or a park for children instead of temple or mosque.This way both Ram and Allah will be happy.

To tell you all the truth, I am a Vaishnavite myself.I daily recite VishnuSahasranaamam.We have Vigrahas in our house and we daily do Tirumanjanam for them. Who knows the importance of Lord Raam better than me.

 

I thought it was a spiritual site enlightening people.Spiritualility may decide Heaven or Hell after Death. Lets not make Hell right here on earth.This is the time to be united. It goes both for Hindus and Muslims in India.I am not giving any lecture on Patriotism,but surely country is above religion.