Jesus on right hand side of Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

[AncientMariner]

If Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God and Jesus said he was going to be on the right hand side of God then it is probably safe to say that if you go where Jesus is then you will probably stand a fair chance of meeting Caitanya Mahaprabhu and I would bet that Srila Prabhupada is there as well. I realize that evangelical Christians have partially created a situation where when the Eastern World and even most of the Western world hear the name Jesus they get bitter beer face. All I am saying is don't give up on Jesus, every religion has their share of simple minded fanatics and all we can do is pray that God reveals to them a broader conception of the universe and all that.

 

 

"It is difficult to make spiritual advancement when you are the plaything of a woman"

 

"It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is." - Bill Clinton

 

"I am the only President who knew something about agriculture when I got there." - Bill Clinton

 

(Alone in a church, talking to God, as police lights begin flashing)

Luke: Is that your answer, old man? Well, I guess you're a hard case too.

 

"What we got here is a failure to communicate" - from the movie Cool Hand Luke

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

When all you have is Neophytes running around. Then what can you expect? They can only contaminate people with thier position. Like Russel crow Prabhu says, people should know when they conqured. [Turn that around]

[theist]

Jesus looks like Haridas Thakur in Caitanya-lila.

 

No one can worship independently every manifestation of every avatar. Simply not possible. But they are all there in Krsna.

 

The trick is not to offend any while trying to honor Sri Krsna. No way to please the Father while offending the Son or to please the Son while offending the Father.

 

We the neophytes and below must be especially alert to this but unfortunately as neophytes we usually are not.

[Guest guest]

must be some newly revealed evidence of new Pancha Tattva

you know with the time line differences and all it does not appear likely otherwise the associates of Lord Caitanya dev and Lord Nityanada have been introduced quite efficiently by the sastras oui or non ?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Jesus looks like Haridas Thakur in Caitanya-lila.

--

 

On what do you base this comparison? This is like Christian sectarian mentality. They always hold Jesus as greater than anybody else, or make a comparrison like you just did. What is the point? I cannot think of any Vaishnava who has previusly made such comparisons. Actually now that I think of it, it's usually US neophyetes devotees who say this to make our faith grow. Harisada Thakura and Lord Jesus Christ cannot be compared in my opinion. Because they are both so different. I suspect to make this comparison you would take yourself far away from Gauranga-lila. Anyway.. [You never listen to me anyway]

[theist]

just compare their lives. I have nothing to prove. And as far as "make our faith grow" I see faith as an individual thing quite apart from some group head count.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I see faith as an individual thing quite apart from some group head count

--

 

Good point.

[Guest guest]

 

just compare their lives

 

 

And...? What sort of statement is this??? Just compare and???? All that can be done from there is pure mental speculation, which is very different from faith.

 

Others compare the lives of Sri Jesus to Sri Krishna and make all kinds of speculation. Likewise with Sri Buddha and Mithra. Pure speculation, not faith.

 

 

I have nothing to prove

 

 

So you have nothing, no proof at all, yet make such speculative statements? With all due respect Mr. Theist. Please don't waste our time with such things. We have to read posts before knowing to skip them.

 

Mr. Theist if you believe Sri Jesus "looks like" (whatever that means) Sri Haridas, but have nothing to prove like you said. With all due respect...then better to keep this belief of yours to yourself.

[Guest guest]

 

If Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God and Jesus said he was going to be on the right hand side of God then it is probably safe to say that if you go where Jesus is then you will probably stand a fair chance of meeting Caitanya Mahaprabhu and I would bet that Srila Prabhupada is there as well.

 

 

Sri Krishna is infinite, with infinite forms. Sri Jesus will be on the right hand side of which form of Sri Krishna?

 

On Sri Krishna's left is Srimati Radha. On Sri Krishna's left in the form of Sri Ram is Srimati Sita Devi. So if you go where Srimati Radha is, you will meet Sri Ram? On Sri Krishna's left in the form of Sriman Narayan is Goddess Sri.

 

Who does Gauranga have on his right and left in Gaura-lila? Not Sri Jesus.

 

Sri Jesus will be on the right of some form of infinite Sri Krishna. The form of Sri Krishna who reciprocates with his devotees in the "father rasa."

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

[Tatian]

Did any of the forms of Sri Krishna appear in history?

[Guest guest]

he came in his original transcendental form 5000 years ago

 

before and after he came in the form of many avataras

 

he will come in the future when there will be the need as he says in bhagavad gita

 

but actually he's forever with us in the form of Sri Nama

[Guest guest]

Tatian :

<blockquote>

Did any of the forms of Sri Krishna appear in history?

</blockquote>

 

Sri Krishna most recently appeared on earth 500 years ago, in the incarnation "Sri Krishna Chaitanya". He lived at the same time that Martin Luther was living in Europe.

 

He travelled all over India and told people to constantly remember "The Holy Name of God" and to forget all considerations of caste, religion (Hindu/Muslim etc), but to instead surrender our mind, body and actions to God.

 

Sri Krishna Chaitanya usually pretended to be an ordinary man but sometimes he displayed his full power and glory. As for instance at the ratha-yatra festival in Puri where, in front of the King of Orissa and millions of other people, he pushed a huge temple on wheels called a ratha, which weighs about 100 tonnes. The ratha could not be moved by a team of elephants but Sri Krishna Chaitanya pushed it with easily.

 

He also cured lepers of leprosy by touching them and he performed many other miracles. In the city of Nabadwip, in the presence of hundreds of people, he manifest different forms of Vishnu. He manifest in the form of a "man-lion" and he also exhibiting a form of Vishnu with four arms. At another time, he also manifest in the "sadbhuja" form of a man with six arms.

 

If you click here http://www.mandala.com.au/books/scm.htm you can read the first article ever written in English about Sri Krishna Chaitanya. This article was written in 1895 by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur.

 

[theist]

Mr. Guest, you can just call me theist. If one compares their lives Krsna may reveal something, or He may not. In any case I'll put my thoughts to post whenever and however I like.

 

You may notice sometimes how often Srila Prabhupada mentions Haridas Thakur and Lord Jesus Christ together and along with Prahlada Maharaja. Draw your own conclusions. Maybe the same, maybe similar.

[theist]

Do you think these forms every move out of position? LOL

 

Right side of God means Jesus is not the Supreme Lord but rather a separate person who has a relationship with God. He did not go back and merge with the Supreme like so many say.

 

Or you could say 'right hand man' /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Theist,

 

There is a convention that Deities be installed on alters according to a special arrangements. Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura always installed the Deities in his 64 Gaudiya Math temples with Sri Krishna in the middle and (looking from Krishna's viewpoint, for he is the Super Seer) with Sri Radha on the left and Sri Gauranga on the right.

 

In the words of Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

<blockquote>

radha-syama ekatanu dakshe gora raya

bame radha madhye svayam syama-gopa jaya

On the alter, on the right side, Radha-Shyama in one united form as Sri Gauranga; on the left side stands Sri Radhika, in the middle the shining dark cowherd Krishna.

 

and

 

radha bhava-kanti angikari' bhala mate

dakshine asana rasa garima dekhate

Taking the heart and halo of Sri Radha most beautifully,

Gauranga is honoured on the right side to show his rasa's glory.

</blockquote>

 

There is a special meaning for Deities being installed with their parshads (associates) standing to the left or right, or in front (Hanumanji, Prahlad).

 

If someone chooses to install a Deity of Jesus beside Sri Krishna (Chaitanya) there is no harm in that, in my opinion. But this is an innovation that none of sages or the predecessor Acharyas have authorised.

 

- Murali

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

If you click here http://www.mandala.com.au/books/scm.htm you can read the first article ever written in English about Sri Krishna Chaitanya. This article was written in 1895 by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur.

 

 

 

Listen- http://www.vaisnava.com/audiobooks.html

Approx 35MB download. Keep it forever. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist]

But who was talking about Deities?

[Guest guest]

Yeah you are right Theist,

 

the conversation wasn't about Deities.

 

Right or left, above or below. It is really all symbolic, isn't it?

 

- Murali

[Guest guest]

Pankaj and Theist,

 

Have you heard the kirtans of Bhudev Prabhu at Vaisnava.com

 

http://www.vaisnava.com/bhudevprabhu.html

 

There is a link there on that page to saraswat aroti, which contains the verses above that I just quoted in regard to Deities on the left and right.

[theist]

I wouldn't argue that certain forms are not in certain lila's. I wouldn't think we could mix and match according to our whims. Rasabhasa? So sticking to what has been taught is always prudent.

 

That is actually what I was meaning when I alluded to seeing Jesus in Caitanya-lila as Haridas Thakur and not trying to impose Jesus of Nazareth. I happen to believe they are the same person. But if nothing else they are the same emblems of tolerance.

 

When I said compare their lives, if one does they will see some interesting parrells. Beaten savagely in the marketplace and executed. Resurrected. There is more for anyone interested.

 

Haribol Murali

[Guest guest]

Yes Prabhu,

I can appreciate this.

 

-m.

[Guest guest]

 

In regard to history, which Tatian was asking about, as I've said before I believe we need to use our common sense when we read the stories in the ancient scriptures. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur said we should read the scriptures in that way. I don't want to be a one-eyed fanatic who thinks that the scriptures proclaim that the world is flat, or that this earth planet is the centre of the universe. Nor do I believe in the science of the atheist materialists, who tell us that life is merely a material process which arose out of chemicals and then evolved into animal and human forms through a process of natural selection and mutation. There are magical things in the universe that the materialists can't explain, such as the fact that many people DO REMEMBER some things from their past lifetimes.

 

At the same time, there are many superstitions and misconceptions that many religious people have which create terrible disturbances in the world. The Orthodox Christian Serbs "ethnic cleansing" and murder of 8,000 Muslim men at Srebrenica, for instance. Of the Catholic Croat's massacres of Bosnians in various places. In many ways I sympathise with atheists who hate religion, when I look at what the religions of the West have done in the world. Fortunately, our Gaudiya Vaishnava culture has never been an aggressive force in the world. But I must say that I don't like to consider what life would be like if Harikesa had established a world-wide varnashrama society and government, as he had wished to do.

 

Sri Krishna Chaitanya appeared in this world in "our age" of humankind. When I look at what he said, and who he is, I feel that there is no other God that I am interested in, besides Him. But this is a personal feeling and I really feel everyone else's point of view is equally as valid as mine.

 

[krsna]

 

 

 

THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF THE LEGACY OF LORD JESUS CHRIST

 

mahaksadasa, c. 1997

 

The book called Acts, written by Luke, a physician and associate of Paul, who also wrote a biographical account of the Life and teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, describes the immediate post-samadhi activities of His disciples.

 

There apparently was a brief period after the unsuccessful Roman assassination attempt and His eventual departure. During this period, He explained to His followers how He wanted His teachings spread throughout the world. He told them all to stay put and not preach His message until they were empowered by the Holy Spirit, an indication that until that time, they were not qualified to act on His behalf.

 

He further directly states that their program was NEVER to be independent of the specific empowerment of His Father and their own ideas lacked authority as such. (Acts 1:7-8)

 

After thus reminding them of their duties in regard to His mission, He left them. A certain realization hit them that His mission and His actual physical presence were the same. (Acts 1:11)

 

However, at the very outset of their mission on behalf of Lord Jesus Christ, in separation from Him, they perhaps failed to follow His first instruction to wait for empowerment before action. What was this first disobedience to His instructions? It was the application of the mundane democratic process to seek answers to their organizational problems.

 

Originally, there were twelve apostles, and Judas Iscariot resigned his post by treachery. Simon Peter and some of the other ten decided that the post must be filled. In the name of apostolic ministry, they elected Mathias over Joseph to sit as apostle. The qualifications of the two were equal, yet Mathias was chosen by dint of drawn lots. (Acts 1:26) A very important point in this connection is that the activity of election took place prior to what the book describes as Pentecost, the occasion of the promised empowerment He told them to wait for. Thus, because they were not yet empowered to act as representative of Lord Jesus Christ, Mathias' position as actual apostle must be rightly questioned.

 

The election process has never been a valid indicator of who is representative of the Will of the Supreme Lord. Such empowerment comes from Him ALONE, and is never left to the decisions of men, especially those who fail to carry out His order. When Pentecost finally arrived, the empowerment was in the form of the ability to speak in terms understood by the masses. Some nonsense interpreters of this phenomenon imitate false empowerment by a pretense called "speaking in tongues", uttering gibberish in an attempt to mislead the foolish. Actual Pentecostal empowerment means one is empowered by the Supreme Lord to speak with such authority that understanding of the message and change of heart naturally takes place, yet many give credence to the pretender christian sahajiya because the make undecipherable noises.

 

The empowerment of His disciples was effectual, and the post-samadhi era of Lord Jesus Christ was begun. The potency of such preaching work by His disciples is well established in the histories, yet the precedent of democratization was also inserted into the legacy of christianity, which, as described above, was not a bonafide activity of the actual mission of Lord Jesus Christ. So, instead of having, as a basis, the simple commandment of Loving the Supreme Father with whole mind, heart body and soul, and loving His children as one's self, christianity has come to require one to pass muster and be similarly elected, to supercede His instructions and place one's confidence in the congregation (especially the leaders), over and above the Will of the Supreme Lord.

 

With the growth of christianity, many of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ became minimized. Some followers banded together, and their first order of business was to support the organization. A sort of communism ensued, and though a workable system if agreeable to participants, if enforced by coersion, the system is symptomatic of fanaticism.

 

In the story of Ananias (Acts 5:1), such coersion is evident. Though Lord Jesus Christ gave clear instructions concerning giving in LOVING service, Simon Peter contradicts by demanding giving without love, forced servitude. He also places leaders of the organization on the same level of Lord Jesus Christ and His Supreme Father, elected, appointed, without tolerance to some who may have actual empowerment (i.e. Mary of Magdalia). Thus, the roots of christianity are stained by such fanaticism, opposed to the loving service to the Supreme Father as espoused by the founder, Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Are these points indicative of apostasy in the hearts of these direct disciples of Lord Jesus Christ? Not necessarily, yet they show that apostles that supercede the levels of their empowerment by the Lord to be His representative can be not only contradictory, but actually misrepresentative, and very dangerous to spiritual life. When one falsely perceives oneself to represent the Lord without actual empowerment by the Lord Himself, one only usurps, arrogantly, the position of the Lord and acts as false god. This is a common symptom of one who sees the spiritual master as an ordinary person to emulate. The initial election of Mathias, prior to Pentecostal event, shows zealous overstepping of their devotional status.

 

The remnants of this religion founded on the shaky ground of disobediance to the order of the spiritual master is wreaked with elections and appointments, some as absurd as requiring diplomas from secular universities. Lord Jesus Christ, however, gives courage by instructing the faithful disciple about the nature of those pretenders baptizing and healing in His Name, they are not remembered by Him. Democratization, putting transcendental science in the hands of men, sets the stage for the apparent loss of disciplic succession from Lord Jesus Christ, even the compilation of scripture has been subject to such nonsense elections. The authoritative list of books accepted by the editors of the "bible" (known as canonical list), was voted on by the Council of Trent (1546), ratifying the list of popular use since the fourth century C.E. However, Lord Jesus Christ, as favored Son of the Supreme Father, reserves the right to specifically empower His representative outside the restraints of eccliastic systems based on such artificiality.

 

[Guest guest]

 

If one compares their lives Krsna may reveal something, or He may not

 

 

Again what sort of statement is this? Well, I do not equate revealation with mental speculation. Whatever paralells or similarities there are, only mental speculation can be done from there.

 

 

In any case I'll put my thoughts to post whenever and however I like.

 

 

Please be more courteous to other board members. You have done a good job now saying it is your belief. Whereas before you did not making it more of a task to filter through posts.

 

 

Maybe the same, maybe similar

 

 

Maybe this maybe that, maybe something else. That's as far as we can go. Speculation.

 

Is Sri Jesus Sri Haridas? Who knows? Sri Haridas is revealed in Gauraganodesdipika to be Brahma. If in fact, Sri Jesus is 'the right hand man' of God as you say, then he cannot be Sri Haridas.

 

Some speculate Sri Jesus is Brahma or Baladeva. And from paralells and similarities in the lives of Sri Jesus, Sri Buddha and Sri Krishna make all kinds of speculation. I for one am not interested in such speculations. But thank you for sharing your beliefs. And thanks for using the word believe now, that makes it much quicker to filter through.

[Guest guest]

 

Do you think these forms every move out of position? LOL

 

 

What is so funny? Think? I do not want to just think, I want to know. Not speculate.

 

When walking in the forest, which side of Sri Ram did Sri Laxman and Srimati Sita ALWAYS walk on? And in Ram Darbar, did those positions change? The Vishnu forms of Sri Krishna have the Shanka, Chakra, Gada and Padma paraphernelia arranged in each their own specific ways. And on which side of Sriman Vasudeva are Sri Pradyumna and Sri Aniruddha ALWAYS on?

 

If being on the right and left means something I do not know.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!