Blaspheme Krishna and Believe in Christ

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Just been talking to a Christian fellow. Don't really preach or chat to anybody one-to-one anymore. Only talk with devotees. Anyway just thought is it really possible to BELIEVE or have FAITH in Christ while at the same time Blaspheming Krishna? How can it be so? Or is it a matter of time before Lord Jesus opens thier eyes. [Guru muchkya padma vakya..]

[Kulapavana]

we should only talk about these things to people open enough to see value in other religions. talking to closed minded bigots is a total waste of time.

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kulapavana]

but of course... my pleasure!

[Guest guest]

Some Xtians are preachable to, but most are pretty dogmatic. And if/when they start blaspheming Krsna or Srila Prabhupada, then you gotta leave immidiately or become implicated yourself.

 

gHari knows how to preach to them, using their own scriptures. Maybe he will chime in on this thread....

[Guest guest]

Random is exact here. One must follow in the footsteps of Lord Chaitanya, who gives great example of HOW to preach to those with religious sentiment but are of other cultures or faith base. When Lord Chaitanya defeated the Kazi, the muslim magistrate, he used the qoran. A muslim would have no basis for understanding the concepts of Vaisnava philosophy, so the vaisnavism that is inherant in his own readings are accented by the expert preacher.

 

Similarily, the Christians are loosely based on vaisnava principles, albeit hidden thru years of manipulation of their shastra. TO preach to them, we have to use their good qualities and encourage them while we tactfully give them pause to think about their bogus ideas.

 

Closed minded xians have no access, so dont bother. However, there are those christians out there that do have a grasp on the actual teachings of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

The key is to not try to patronize their christianity which is severely flawed and based on salvationism and mayavadi ideas of fathers and sons losing their individuality and merging their existance. But using the actrual teaqchings of Lord Jesus goes a long way.

 

But first wee must learn what Lord Jesus teaches, otherwise, we will be influenced by the false doctrines that bear the name of Christ, as he adequately predictesd.

 

Harew Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Kulapavana]

preaching to Chand Kazi is an exception, as Lord Chaitanya had no choice but to respond. and it was more like a court case hearing than a preaching mission.

[Guest guest]

and I might add that the intent of the preacher is also very important. Is it to convert them to Krsna Consciousness or to just have a faith-based dialogue? A faith-based dialogue can increase the others own faith, w/o detracting from yourself.

 

I find that I have no problems talking with Mormons. Once they know that I'm not trying to convert them, they don't try and convert me. And from that place some interesting discussions start. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Now, about them Jehova's Witnesses..... /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[theist]

I usually never mention Krsna to them. I mean why? Not the body, God is a person, by the Name of God we will be saved, and stop killing animals to taste their blood my dear barbarian /images/graemlins/wink.gif and that is about it. Oh yeah and the idea that God tortures people eternally in hell is blasphemy.

 

One should build their faith as much as possible in Lord Jesus and Jehovah and be encouraging. Prolonged arguments are never fruitful.

 

We should be careful we don't cause others to say something offensive. Something about controlling the urge to speak.

[theist]

That is a very cool icon you have there. I get entranced watching it. It is a trip how the mind will pick out one picture as being prominant one moment and then the next another takes it place.

 

I am going back to check it out some more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Hopefully I will leave my body watching it. If you all never here from me again you can know I got the Grace.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I always see Krishna when I watch it. It is cool. I don't preach that much because, I don't have that amount of faith where I think I can make any kind of influence. Not so much confidence. The Christian fellow gave up talking about Meat-eating, and just changed the subject. Was obvious to me he was FIMDING a way to drink water from the ground instead of using a pot. Let not go there.! Gaurabol!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

 

He said that what's the difference between Killing an ant [which we may do everyday] and say a pig. So I was thinking he must be a fully realized soul who sees with equal vision all living entities. If not then how can you compare an ant to a pig or cow? You know what I am saying.

[gHari]

It seems that no one has found the Kingdom of God. The TV preachers just talk nonsense all day long, words and words spinning everyone's head until they are all lost and confused. No one seems to remember what it is all about. The Kingdom of God is what it is all about. That's what Prabhupada teaches; that's what Christ said he was sent to teach - the Good News about God's Kingdom.

 

Think about it. If there were no wise men, no religious heritage, would we possibly guess there was a Kingdom, a world beyond this one? Would we not live as though this was it? Well, Christ was sent to tell those people that there is such a wonderful place, removing the burden of their dreary mundane fight for existence by showing them how to taste the eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

 

Every moment, seek ye first the Kingdom of God. This is the order from guru. The Kingdom of God is like a plant that grows and grows and then one day its fruit ripens [JC]. It is like the bhakti-bija devotional creeper that grows and grows until it reaches Vaikuntha and then eventually reposes at Sri Krsna's Lotus Feet in Goloka Vrindavan [ACBSP].

 

This is religion - loving God more and more until we wake up in the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom is now. Religion means knowing that, living that, being there. Here and now.

 

I can only think that the preachers aren't preaching that because they haven't tasted it yet. Maybe they've given up. Maybe they've settled for teaching morality to save face and to earn a wage.

 

What can we do for Christians? We can serve Jesus, their guru, by preaching the Good News about the Kingdom of God. This is the message he sent his disciples out to preach.

 

Somehow or other turn their attention towards God; He will do the rest.

 

[Kulapavana]

Christianity was lost when they merged the old Judaic tradition with the teachings of Jesus. some Christians rightfully reject the Old Testament but that leaves them with very little in terms of being able to explain creation, etc.

[Kulapavana]

"what's the difference between Killing an ant [which we may do everyday] and say a pig"

 

that is their standard excuse. actually, killing an ant is an involountary act, while killing a pig for food is a deliberate, conscious killing.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I been thinking about food in different modes as well. Passion/Igonorance and Goodness. Something to think about it.

[water]

 

Oh yeah and the idea that God tortures people eternally in hell is blasphemy.

 

 

Here's an interesting article on some common misconceptions in Christianity (ie. in a particular, but popular Western theology):

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

It explains how it happened that God has become to be viewed as wicked, merciless, bound by necessity. Also, that hell is eternal torture for those who hate God -- namely

 

 

This is hell: the negation of love; the return of hate for love; bitterness at seeing innocent joy; to be surrounded by love and to have hate in one's heart. This is the eternal condition of all the damned. They are all dearly loved. They are all invited to the joyous banquet. They are all living in God's Kingdom, in the New Earth and the New Heavens. No one expels them. Even if they wanted to go away they could not flee from God's New Creation, nor hide from God's tenderly loving omnipresence. Their only alternative would be, perhaps, to go away from their brothers and search for a bitter isolation from them, but they could never depart from God and His love. And what is more terrible is that in this eternal life, in this New Creation, God is everything to His creatures. As Saint Gregory of Nyssa says, "In the present life the things we have relations with are numerous, for instance: time, air, locality, food and drink, clothing, sunlight, lamplight, and other necessities of life, none of which, many though they be, are God; that blessed state which we hope for is in need of none of these things, but the Divine Being will become all, and in the stead of all to us, distributing Himself proportionately to every need of that existence. It is plain, too, from the Holy Scriptures that God becomes to those who deserve it, locality and home and clothing and food and drink and light and riches and kingdom, and everything that can be thought of and named that goes to make our life happy" (On the Soul and the Resurrection).

 

In the new eternal life, God will be everything to His creatures, not only to the good but also to the wicked, not only to those who love Him, but likewise to those who hate Him. But how will those who hate Him endure to have everything from the hands of Him Whom they detest? Oh, what an eternal torment is this, what an eternal fire, what a gnashing of teeth!

 

 

[gHari]

But the writer still thinks the Kingdom of God is something that will be here in the future. They are being cheated.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

It is a very good question - but since Blaspheming = Uttering obscenities there is no doubt their faith is not humble and genuine - even if they do not accept - they do not need to become nasty.

 

When they are like that they are demons - I bet if we could see their lives - Krishna's words would cinch it:

 

...Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations.... [bG 16.17]

 

...Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.... [bG 16.7]

 

No - that kind of religious person has an ignorant pride that prevents his seeing God - anywhere.

 

His constant faith bashing has something to do with some inane need to obsessively repeat a twisted continual re-validation of his dogma - thus – to prop-up his own beliefs within his heart - he thus tears down the faith of all those ‘unsaved’ who may be around him – for him it isn’t enough to be saved – but you better be in his church too.

 

These people are lost and pretty much a waste of time.

 

Notwithstanding - there are those Christians - who do not accept Krishna – but who also do not decry him – as you may appreciate - their position is naturally different than these ‘extremist types’ you’ve mentioned.

 

Yer servant,

[Guest guest]

If not then how can you compare an ant to a pig or cow? You know what I am saying.

 

He did this merely to make an argument. There is a very similar anti-vegetarian argument made by internet wiseguy Maddox who says that various rodents and other small animals are killed by farming and harvesting equipment even where vegetables are concerned. If anyone here has seen Star Wars Episode III, it's like how the Emperor tries to compromise Anakin's sense of right and wrong when saying Jedi and Sith are same (hahaha my analogy is laced in Maya! save meeeeeeeeee). In that way, these guys make vain attempts to make our sense of morality seem inconsequential. Pay it no heed. And before preaching to a single person, it is good to gauge their sense of open-mindedness first so you can avoid fanatical tirades against any religion but their own.