Swaminarayan in The Vishvaksen Samitah

[Guest guest]

In the Vishvaksen Samitah Lord Vishwaksen says:

 

II Bhumyam krutaavataroham sarvannataam jaganmaham

Praapishyaami vaikuntham Sahajanand Namataha II

 

This Verse states that :

 

Among all parts of the universe I take birth on Earth, I shall adore Vaikunth adopting the name Sahajanand. Such scriptures prove Lord Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) as the vedic acceptance of incarnated Suprememe Reality.

 

The full name Shajanand is given by Lord Vishvaksen. The Brahmapurana also states such: " Kalouswami Vrushatmaja". That in Kaliyug "i" as in Lord supreme will come as 'Swami' son of Dharm.

 

 

Cool or what?

 

Its just people who disregard text or make somthing else out of it. But the evidence is there in teh scriptures. All written by Bhagwaan veda Vyaas before the time of the Mahabharat.

 

The name Sahajanand was given to the Lord when he was 21 by his guru Ramanand Swami who is the incarnation of Uddhavji.

[mac00uk]

Of course Krishna is Parbrahm. Swaminarayan is this very same Parbrahm, Just like Raam, Vaman etc are as well.

 

The original teachings of lord Swaminarayan was the follow Lord Krishna, of course he would state such. he is this very same Krishna. He also declared that he is this very same Krishna. This is within the Vachanamrut.

 

He did what no mere mortal or true saint could do. Just liek Raam worshipped Shiva, Swaminarayan worshipped Krishna. He is the very same Parbrahm Purushottam.

[Shankar_Upasak]

I reverently bow down to shri Vishnu as well as Lord shiva who are described as one in the vedas.

 

As for Lord Swaminarayan i have no doubt that he could be lord supreme. As he to has followed the vedas and re established the true Vishistadvaita path just like Adi Lord Ramanuj Acharya.

 

I dont see why many being Vaishnav's have doubst as to why a veda following and establishing soul could not be an incarnation.

 

It is true,that Lord Swaminarayan has been described in the scriptures before his pradur bhaav on the Earth.

 

As a shiv upasak i have a lot of respect for him. My ancestors were originally from Allahbad (prayag) and later moved to mumbai when my father was young. We have been living in Dadar ever since.

 

My grandfatehr has served the shiv temple as a pujari ever since the move as a pujari and has also talked of how in the past my ancestor (Maaheshvar Bhatt-6th great grandfather) also had worshipped Lord Swaminarayan when He met him and also realised that He was Supreme relaity. Ever since we have always worshipped him as such along with Shiva as our Kuldev. Every puja we do we have his image on the side.

 

I have also come to know that there are many tearaways from the original fiath of lord swaminarayan such as Pramukh swami etc.

 

Reality is the original sect which is Amdavad and i think varital in Gujarat. Ive been to ahmedavad myself wher lord Nar Narayan is worshipped as is Lord Swaminarayan as well as our family Ishtadev Lord Shivji.

 

Therefore not having biased views i have full faith in Lord Swaminarayan as God. I have read up on his works and what he achived in so little time. Only God could do what he did.

 

Please as a shivite/Vaishnav adressing Vaishnav's you should not critise. Okay you maybe do not accept but please you shouldnt critisise. lord Swaminarayan also regarded shiv pujan as right and uttam. He in his sikshapatri has said that Shiv is to be worshipped in the month of shravan with bilva patra. So i regard him as God just like i regard Raam, Krishna, Parshuram as God.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

He is not God. Just as Kalki is predicted....if I at the age of 21 get confered with the title by another bogus guru...does that make me God. Sri Krishna picked up Govardhan Hill....when He was on earth there was no famine....how can you insult Sri Krishna by enlikening Him to a mere mortal being. FOOOOOOOOOOOOLISSH!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

How is it an insult?

 

Krishna is the same. You shouldnt say whether he is or isnt unless you have evidence. Otherwise you aint no true vaishnav. So what does that make you?

 

Krishna picked up Govardhan, yes he did. But dattatray or bhagwan Rishabdev did not. Does that mean they are not God? Nor did Mohini avtaar. Does that mean he wasnt God?

 

 

When Bhagwaan Krishna lifted up Govardhan he was LATER GIVEN THE TITLE : GIRINATH, OR GOVARDHAN DHARI.

 

HE WAS ALSO LATER GIVEN THE TITLE WHEN HE LEFT MATHURA FOR DWARIKA: RANCHOD RAI.

 

 

So until God fulfills what he is meant to, then he is given a respective name. Hence Sahajanand swami.

 

How is that foolishness? This just shows you have disrespect for the Visvakshen Samitah as well as you do not realise Gods greatness. That he can please do do as he wills irrespective of whether anyone will or will not follow him and believe him as God.

 

 

 

Sahajanand Swami (swaminarayan bhagwaan) Ni Jay!

 

[Guest guest]

SAHAJ ANAND two part name impersonal and blissful

there fore a person known as a blissful impersonalist

we stand corrected you must be god

[Guest guest]

Find me that Sahajanand Swami then in the Kaliyug who bought Vaikuntha with him.

[mac00uk]

What on earth is that supposed to mean? Just by making the truth as untrue wont get you far my son.

 

Whether you doubt Swaminarayan is your personal problem. But there are also other scriptures which predicted his coming onto the earth as well.

 

Lord Swaminarayan was Krishna himself.

[Shankar_Upasak]

Thats your views. a person who has not read anything up on Shri Swaminarayan. You not only miss out on how he made the path to Golok easy but also contradict him Being Lord which is a sin.

 

First of all Shri Krishna never signed the gita. Yet we believe him as the author. Its faith. In the same way we believe that Lord Swaminarayan was Lord. But my friend we also have predictions of his coming onto the earth to support such. Even if the predictions were not there, millions still would have realised that Swaminarayan bhagwaan was God supreme as the acts he carried out were divine.

 

The people living in his time were blessed to have darshan of the leelas that he carried out. One of these people was an ancestor of mine.

 

Such people realised the truth simply by hearing of the Lords work, and even better when they saw him face to face. Many were said to go into samadhi and see Golok and the different Lokas.

 

A person who was sent into samadhi By Lord Swaminarayan was merely through touch or even the name utterance of 'Swaminarayan'. From this samadhi people saw their respective Ishtadev's in their Lokas. Ram upasaks saw Ram and sita in Vaikuntha whilst Shiva upasaks saw Parvati and Shiva in Kailash.

 

From this they realised that no other mere soul could do what Lord Swaminarayan was doing. He also sent people to Golok where they saw the same murti residing on earth (sahajanand swami or swaminarayan) and also saw the many avtaars merging with this murti. Many accounts of such incidents have been made and recorded.

 

Sir Malcolm John who was the Governor or Mumbai also met the Lord and he was given the Sikshapatri by Lord Swaminarayan which exist today in the Oxford Bodlein library and along with it also acounts of the incident that took place. He alsogave his views of Lord Swaminarayan as a 'great reformer' and 'no mere mortal'.

 

I see the same Shiv, Lord Swaminarayan. He is my PAshupatinath. I continue to worship shivji and i realise that Krishna, Shiva and Swaminarayan are one Brahmswaroop.

 

Har Har Mahadev

Jay Swaminarayan

Jay Shri Krishna

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

His devotee of Param-Brahman. I don't know why people get this mixed up all the time. They are same in quality like you and me but not in Power. How can they be same if they are different? You are not same as me. They are so different! Anyway I don't want to make a thread of of this. But I couldn't help saying my little piece, gaurabol!!

[Guest guest]

when He was on earth there was no famine....how can you insult Sri Krishna by enlikening Him to a mere mortal being.

 

The partial expansions u mention don't possess all 64 qualities that Sri Krishna has. Sri Krishna posseses all these qualities in full. No one equals HIM. The yuga avatar is Lord Caitanya....no one else.

 

 

[Guest guest]

guest can you please give me the verse number and the version of

Vishvaksen Samitah you found this verse in.

 

Thanks

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Vedas declare both shiv and Vishnu as Ek Brahmswaroop.

 

So whats the meaning of this?

[Guest guest]

You calling Chaitanya as Yug Avtaar and no one else is a sin. Of course Chaitanya was Incarnate Lord. So was Lord Swaminarayan. So there is no NUMBER as how many yug avtaars there will be. As Lord Vasudev has explained this to Narad in the VAsudev mahatmyam himself, That there are MANY incarnations which will take place. These names of incarnations are given in various purnas and upanishads.

 

The sect you follow believes such and the sect i follow believes Lord Swaminarayan yet does not contradict that Chaitanya was Lord as well. As we followers ofthe Swaminarayan faith also belive such. As Lord Krishna himself says that he comes when evil prevails on the earth. Thus he came as Lord Swaminarayan.

 

There was famine when Lord Came on the Earth as Swaminarayan.For you to question a being, you have to have know of their works on the earth. Only then you can lif t a finger up and class someone as God or not.

 

Ok Krishna is teh supreme Godhead. Does taht mean Raam is not? Of course he is. He is the same Expansion. Where you talk about qualities tehn listen up. God always has all his full qualities at all times. But He only uses the capacity which he needs at the time. Lord Raam used such an amount as did Dattatray. HE was Lord himself as was Matsya and Narsimh. It is the very same God that lives in Golok.

 

Its like this. When your born you look different. If there is a photograph at that age and one later on in life they wouldnt be identical. But you would still be you. Your soul would not have changed yet your body would have. In the same manner the incarnations are all different and are capable of everything yet only use the qualities taht are needed at the time.

 

Yes there is a shloka number etc for the Visvakshen Samitah, I will get it for you.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Vedas declare both shiv and Vishnu as Ek Brahmswaroop.

 

 

 

Brahma Samhita says- [www.vedabase.net] That Vishnu is like the milk and Shiva is like the curd, they are same yet different. So who does Vishnu and Shiva come from then?

 

Lord Brahma says, isvara parama krsna, saci-cid-ananda-vigraha, anadi adir govinda sarva karana karanam. "The Original Personality of Godhead is Krishna.!"

 

So to say Shiva is Brahma Brahmswaroop is very correct. But also Shiva as is stated by Vaishnava Acharays is neither Vishnu-tattva nor Jiva-tattva, so the Curd example is good for us conditioned souls to understand Him. Gaurabol!

[Guest guest]

The supreme reality in Golok Was named Krishna before His incarnation took place. This same Krishna is also called by many other names such as Raam.

[Guest guest]

true no matter what you call him, or in what form you worship him, as long as its genuine and alonside dharm and bhalkti, you will attain him.

[Guest guest]

So if u accept Srila Vyasadev as an authority, u should also accept that after compiling all the Vedas he was still feeling incomplete. Hence his spiritual master Sri Narada Muni dispelled his sorrows by instructing him to compile the amala purana - Srimad Bhagavatam. In this topmost scripture Srimad Bhagavatam, which was compiled after Vyasadev foresaw the misery of Kali yuga....surely he would have mentioned the man u claim 2 b God there if he thought that we should worship him.

 

Secondly the incarnations of Sri Krishna r all Navayauvana, they never get old, have a pot belly or diseases like high blood pressure etc. or visit a dentist!!! We really can't say the same of ur god!!!!

 

Lord Krishna is equally disposed 2 all beings. Your god focuses only on Gujeratis....and does not even see women. He is not god for those he chooses not 2 give supposed mercy.

[Guest guest]

"As one can understand the different incarnations for different millenniums by referring to Vedic literatures," the Lord replied, "one can similarly understand who is actually the incarnation of Godhead in this age of Kali." In this way the Lord especially stressed reference to authoritative scriptures. In other words, one should not whimsically accept a person as an incarnation but should try to understand the characteristics of an incarnation by referring to scriptures.

So in terms of your thinking you are wrong. Lord Swaminarayan is within many scriptures such as :

It is stated in the Padma puran (one of the 18 purans of our religion as directed by god supreme):

 

II Datatrayam krutyuge,

tretayaam raghunandana,

dvapare vasudevaha,

kalou swami vrushatmaja II

 

It also states in Vishnu dharmottar:

 

II Pakhandbahuleloke swami namna hari swayam,

papank nimagnam tajuddhaaryishyati II

 

II Mahadharmanvye punye,

naamna paapvinashke,

hariprasad vivrasya,

swami namna hari svayam II

This means that in kaliyug where evil triumphs, I purna purushotam will arrive on the earth named hari. I will redeem many souls and increase their punya (good deeds). I named as Swami will be born to Hari (Hariprasad, orginal name of Dharmadev).

And in the Visvaksen Samitah it is also stated:

II Bhumyam krutaavataroham sarvannataam jaganmaham

Praapishyaami vaikuntham Sahajanand Namataha II

 

This Verse states that :

 

Among all parts of the universe I take birth on Earth, I shall bring Vaikunth adopting the name Sahajanand onto the Earth. Such scriptures prove Lord Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) as the vedic acceptance of incarnated Suprememe Reality.

This also shows that Lord Swaminarayan is within many texts. He is also within Vasudev Mahatymyaham in the Skand Puran:

skanda purana is one of the 18 puranas

Adhyaya 18 of the Vasudev Mahatmya of Skand Purana details many of the manifestations of God Supreme which seem to be presented in chronological order - including Rama, Krishna, Veda Vyaas etc. God himself is addressing Lord Kartikeya (Skand) and Narad Muni in this Adhyaya to details his future manifestations. Verse 41 details Budhha Avatar then the following:

 

Maya krushnana Nihataha Sarjunana Raneshu Yay |

Pravartayishyantyasurastay Tvadharmam Yada Kshitauha ||42||

Dharmadevatada Murtaum Naranarayatmana |

Pravrutayapi Kalau Brahman ! Bhutvaham Samago Dvijaha ||43||

Muni-shapan-nrutam Praptam Sarshim Janakmatmanaha |

Tatoavita Gurubhyoaham Sadharmam Sthapayanaja ||44||

 

This clearly explains that in Kali yuga, the Lord will be born to a family of Samvedi brahmins, to Dharma dev and Murti devi (the names of Lord Swaminaryan’s parents) using Narnarayan as the causal factor. By establishing Dharma, he will free the Munis and his parents from the curse of the Rishi, which sent them all on earth to be reborn. (this is exactly what happened.

By the way don’t forget that it’s the same Vyas Bhagwaan who wrote these 18 purans as well.

An incarnation of the Supreme Lord never declares Himself to be an incarnation, but His followers must ascertain who is an incarnation and who is a pretender by referring to authoritative scriptures. Real avatara does not want to be glorified (SB 4.15.23):

parokse 'smad-upasrutany alam

stotram apicya-vacah

uttamasloka-gunanuvade

na stavayanti sabhyah

O gentle reciters, offer such prayers in due course of time, when the qualities of which you have spoken actually manifest themselves in me. The gentle who offer prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead do not attribute such qualities to a human being, who does not actually have them.

If still dont believe a word I say then ask yourself this, does your religion, does Lord Krishna teach you to slander and vilify other Gods? Does he say go and talk bad about devotees of Lord Rama or Lord Swaminarayan? Does your present Guru teach you any those things? Does Lord Krishna say talk bad about other God's mandirs especailly when they have lord Kirshna's murti in it? Maybe not in the center shrine but that is because they are temples dedicated to Lord Swaminarayan and not to Lord krishna.

 

Does Lord Krishna tell you to foster hatredespecially against other Gods no matter what their teachings are? The answer to the last few questions is no. Stop finding flaws in other Gods and religion when you have flaws in yourself. After you correct those flaws than talk.

Secondly, in saying that an avatar never ageing, this is also absolutely false.

You say that God is always “Navyuvan”? Could you find me the quote where this is stated? How can God always be Navyuvan since he takes birth and evolves as his desires. Vaman Bhagwan didn’t have to be a dwarf. Lord Krishna was a baby and later grew into a man as this was a manushya avtaar. In that Yug people like Bhishma Pitamah had long lifespans thus Lord Krishna lived for 125 years which wasn’t abnormal in them days. The belief of Lord Krishna being God came after he went back to Golok. Even the majority of the Yadu clan didn’t realise such. Also Lord Parshuram was the incarnation of God. He wasn’t exactly Navyuvan. Bhagwan Parshuram aged. From the young Brahmin who slayed multiple generations of shatriya’s to the silver haired guru of Bhisma and Karna. Which scriptures are you quoting from?

You state that “Your God had a pot belly and blood pressure! etc. but your forgetting that when the Lord comes on to the earth its his wish to how he portrays his divya leela and kriyas. For example a paaradhi archer in the foot shot Lord Krishna. This was a nimitt he used to become antardhyaan. If he wanted he could have just vanished but yet chose not to. He passed from this world as a manushya would. By the way where did you read that Lord Swaminarayan had blood pressure? Or visited the dentist? Even if he did this wouldn’t be any less then Krishna bhagwaan having to shave or have a mundane (haircut).

At least as a Vaishnav you should think that it isn’t your place you question unless your there pratyaksh or you find that a being is against the principles or sayings of the Vedas. Lord Swaminarayan was of no such. In fact he established these Vedas, Purans and Upanishads once again.

Your views suggest that you haven’t even digested the teachings of the Bhagwat Gita let alone the any other purans or scriptures.

You state that Lord Swaminarayan was limited to Gujarat only. I sincerely recommend you take time to view a IMAX production called Mystic India. It documents his travels by foot in his youth to the whole perimeter of India. Also in his lifetime he already foretold that his devotees and sampraday would take his teachings and his legacy to all corners of the world. This is evident today.

You are a person who just hasn’t researched Lord Swaminarayan and his teachings. You say the teachings of Lord Swaminarayan were limited to men as he didn’t talk or touch women. This is utter nonsense. Its documented throughout his life uplifted the status of women. For instance if you study history of India, practices such as Sati and drowning newborn females in the name of religion was rife throughout India. It was due to Lord Swaminarayan this stopped.

God forbid, in your tone and words in which you have offended, Lord Krishna as Swaminarayan Bhagwaan He reprimands you. Ask yourself if you can afford that.

Jay Swaminarayan

Jay Shri Krishna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." Lord Krishna (Bg. 9.11)

 

There you go. I consider you as one of these fools. As does Lord krishna.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Read what swaminarayan says in the Shikshapatri at www.gitamrta.org/swaminarayan.htm

 

He clearly says Krishna is the supreme and we should all only worship Krishna, only Krishnaa.

 

It's a shame that the so-called swaminarayan followers are not following his instructions by ignoring Krishna and the Bhagavad-gita. As Srila Prabhupada would say 'they are raskals and fools'.

 

In the temples that swaminarayna built he placed Lord Krishna's deity in the center but in the temples that BAPS has built, krishna is far from the center. This clearly shows what BAPS is doing, insulting shree swaminarayan and Lord Krishna. BAPS is blind leading the blind to hell.

[Guest guest]

Yeah thats BAPS. Theyre mistaken. However the original sampraday which Lord Swaminarayan established isnt such.

 

YEs Shri Krishna Was Ishtadev of Lord Swaminarayan.

Lord Swaminarayan Worshipped Lord Krishna ajust as Lord Rama Worshipped Lord shiva. Lord Swaminarayan was Lord Krishna himself.

 

He also talks of the Akshardham as Golok which is within the Purans as well.

 

Also Lord Krishna has said:

 

"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." Lord Krishna (Bg. 9.11)

[Guest guest]

God forbid for the poeple who oppose Lord Swaminarayans divinity as Lord supreme, in their tone and words in which they have offended, Lord Krishna as Swaminarayan Bhagwaan reprimands you when you leave your body. Ask yourself if you can afford that.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

Jay Shri Krishna

 

Let all be, Lord Krishna will take care of the rest.

[Guest guest]

You know I met a Man in India once who thought he was god as well. When I rebukked him he stated the same verse everyone seems to do here without understanding it.

 

the verse is.......

 

"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." Lord Krishna (Bg. 9.11)

 

Now that this verse is here anyone can claim to be god. From Sai Baba to Swami Narayan. They dont realise that incarnations are predicted in the vedas before hand, swami narayan has never been predicted.

 

"Swami" 1st means Mayavadi (either Nirvesesa of Sunyavadi). "Swami" after name means some level of Devotion to Supreme Being, Who is Not Me.

 

Any thing "Swami" 1st says contaminated, so even if they quote authorized Veda, they do so in an un-authorized way, making their words meaningless.

 

Any thing "Swami" after name must prove credetials by stating Sampradaya, Spiritual Lineage, and proper adherence to this Spiritual Lineage. Failure to do this makes their words questional and therefore potentially dangerous to hear (so politely-respectfully avoid this association).

 

There are Many, Many, Samhitas. We only focus on those in our Sampradaya, revealed by Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna Himself, knowing these Veda to be uncontaminated and actual-factual sources of Divya-jnan.

 

So its all upto who people will listen to. People usually interpret things because it justifies their ignorance fullfills their agenda.

 

With the gujaraties, its whatever that is popular now that is god. I come from a gujurati background so I am quite familier with this fact.

 

God is not Gujurati.

Read the sastras and chant hare krsna, which is Yuga Dharma. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is revealed throughout the puranas, Swami Narayan isnt.

 

Hare Krsna

[gHari]

Walking past him, this seven year old said "Hello", so I asked "What's your name?" ... "Hello, Kevin. Those are nice guns you have there." He had pistols and holsters (haha like a cowboy).

 

As I walked on past he called "I know your name".

 

"You're God".

 

"No, my name's Gary".

 

I could not tell him what I would like to have told him. Such a wonderful boy. But social convention being as it is in this psychotic world, even though his parents were right beside us on their boat and seemed like equally wonderful people I dared not impose even though they likely would not have minded my speaking further with the boy .... that whacko Krsna guy talking further with their little boy.

 

I cannot even say here what I would have liked to have told him ... that whacko Krsna guy.

 

Aside from that puzzling aside: so I am not God. However, I did like the Radha-Krsna Deities posted earlier in the other thread. And I did like the other murti. And I did like the book Siksapatri when I read it, especially the bit about not touching women OR effeminate men. I think all the BAPS followers I have encountered have been sincere and firm in their faith. I can let them have that.

 

gHari