I am utterly confused by Vaishnavam

[Guest guest]

Can someone please clarify a few of my doubts?

 

1) Veda says that God is one but sages call it by many names. Does that mean God can be called by any name other than Krishna? If so, why do Vaishnavas insist on Krishna?

 

2) From the above, does it follow that Krishna, Siva, ganesha and durga are all one?

 

3) Where in the veda does it clearly say that Krishna is Supreme? I don't want puranic references.

 

4) Isn't it commonly held that Vishnu appeared as rama, krishna etc? So why do people say krishna appeared as rama, narasimha and so on, as if krishna and visnu are synonymous? If they are, then why can't we say that Rama appeared as narasimha, krishna et al?

 

Put simply, I am confused by all this. I tried to search the net, but couldn't find any. Can someone please tell me which is true-Krishna is Supreme and other devatas are expansions, or Krishna and other devatas are all part of the Ineffable Supreme? Also tell me why.

[gHari]

You will always be confused if you are looking for an "it".

 

Vaisnavas don't worship an 'it' or even the 'it'.

 

Krsna is served by various elevated living entities who are known as devas or demigods like Siva, Durga, Brahma, and Ganesha. These devas are not on the same level as God. Krsna does expand Himself for pastimes in unlimited forms which are all as good as Him, much like a thousand candles are lit by one original candle. They are all candles and all shine equally, yet one is the initial spark, Sri Krsna.

 

Aside from the obvious Bhagavad-gita passages where Lord Krishna states that He is the source of Brahman and Arjuna confirms that no one is equal to or greater than Krsna, the Bhagavata Purana also reveals how Sri Krsna is the source of all incarnations and expansions of God:

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http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/28/en

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Vaisnavism is so involved because God is so involved, and the eternal Vedic scriptures are the most comprehensive base of knowledge about God available to man. Yet while it is so conplex, it is at the same time very simple - simply love God. The easiest way in this age where everyone is quite fallen is to chant and hear Krsna's names. The Upanishads and modern saints recommend the mantra of sixteen: Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Simple, yet sublime; and simply the most effective approach to develop genuine love of God, leaving the little life behind. A saint sings that mantra <a href=http://canoeparts.ca/KINGDOM/Japa.mp3>HERE</a>. Clicking here is a very good start to understanding Vaishnavism as it is.

 

If you want detail about how Sri Krsna expands Himself for enjoyment (even into the three Visnus) you will enjoy the three or four pages starting here: http://vedabase.net/tlc/6/en

 

 

gHari

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Can someone please clarify a few of my doubts?

 

1) Veda says that God is one but sages call it by many names. Does that mean God can be called by any name other than Krishna? If so, why do Vaishnavas insist on Krishna?

 

 

 

This verse is the most mis-interpreted verse.

 

a índram mitráM váruNam agním aahur átho divyáH sá suparNó garútmaan

ékaM sád vípraa bahudhaá vadanty agníM yamám maataríshvaanam aahuH

 

They call HIM Indra, Mitra, Varun.a, Agni, and certainly as celestial, well-winged Garutmat, for learned priests call THE ONE TRUTH by many names as they speak of Agni, Yama, Ma_taris'van.

 

This verse explains apout BRAHMAN(Narayana or Lord Krishna). It says that all these names of devatas really belong to HIM, THE BRAHMAN.

 

The words like Indra, Mitra etc. are nouns describing the qualities of BRAHMAN, ie Narayana.

 

How do we know Narayana or Krishna is that BRRAHMAN. You would need to do study of Vedas and Gita for that. No other way.

 

 

2) From the above, does it follow that Krishna, Siva, ganesha and durga are all one?

 

 

No as explained above.

 

 

3) Where in the veda does it clearly say that Krishna is Supreme? I don't want puranic references.

 

 

Bhagavad Gita says so and Bhagavad Gita is among Prasthana Traya, one among three primary scriptures of Vedanta. The others are Upanishads and Brahma Sutra.

 

So Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads and Brahma Sutra are considered as primary evidence or Pramana.

 

 

4) Isn't it commonly held that Vishnu appeared as rama, krishna etc? So why do people say krishna appeared as rama, narasimha and so on, as if krishna and visnu are synonymous? If they are, then why can't we say that Rama appeared as narasimha, krishna et al?

 

Put simply, I am confused by all this. I tried to search the net, but couldn't find any. Can someone please tell me which is true-Krishna is Supreme and other devatas are expansions, or Krishna and other devatas are all part of the Ineffable Supreme? Also tell me why.

 

 

Learn Prasthana Traya. Also Itihaasas like Mahabharatha are extremely important. So are Satvika Puranas. Anything outside these scriptures is not authentic.

 

Lord Visnu or Narayana or Krishna or Rama are all IDENTICAL. Visnu is the SOLE SUPREME GOD of vedas,not BrahmA, not DurgA, not Shiva, not Ganesha, not Skkanda or any other Devata.

[shvu]

Can someone please clarify a few of my doubts? Veda says that God is one but sages call it by many names. Does that mean God can be called by any name other than Krishna? If so, why do Vaishnavas insist on Krishna?

A: Obviously, if Vaishnavas or any group strictly adhere to the Vedas alone, they cannot "insist on Krishna" as you put it for Krishna is not mentioned anywhere in the Vedas. They rely on a number of other sources outside the vedas as well to draw their conclusions.

 

2) From the above, does it follow that Krishna, Siva, ganesha and durga are all one?

A: A number of things can follow from the above based on interpretation as the vedas are ambigous (even contradictory at times) and can be read in different ways.

 

3) Where in the veda does it clearly say that Krishna is Supreme? I don't want puranic references.

A: Krishna is not mentioned in the Vedas. For references to Krishna, one has to turn to Pancharatras, Itihasa and Purana.

 

4) Isn't it commonly held that Vishnu appeared as rama, krishna etc? So why do people say krishna appeared as rama, narasimha and so on, as if krishna and visnu are synonymous? If they are, then why can't we say that Rama appeared as narasimha, krishna et al?

A: The mainstrean view which is held by most Vaishnavas is that Krishna and Rama are avatars of Vishnu. However, there are some Vaishnavas who do not consider Krishna as an avatar. They draw their conclusions from a different set of literature.

 

Put simply, I am confused by all this. I tried to search the net, but couldn't find any. Can someone please tell me which is true-Krishna is Supreme and other devatas are expansions, or Krishna and other devatas are all part of the Ineffable Supreme? Also tell me why.

A: I can tell you this - the net is not the source for finding such information. Anyone can write anything on a discussion form or post all types of nonsense as articles. Go back to the source where you first learnt about Krishna and Vaishnavism and question yourself why you do not believe these sources fully. And then start again...

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

In the Swaminarayan Sampraday, which is a bhakti following sampraday and follows the Vishisthadvaita philosophy of Adi Ramanuj Acharya.

 

According to this sect God is one. If any Vaishnav thinks that one incarnation is superior than the other than they are mistaken and this is also a sin.

 

The Vedas do not mention Krishna incarnataion as superior. All incarnations are the same.They use the qualities that are needed at that time only. Just because Narsimh Avtaar or Matsya Avtaar came with less qualities than Lord Krishna did, doesnt mean that Krishna is superior.

 

As all three are the same supreme God. If we worship them we will attain the same Lord.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Of course you will be confused. One needs to Hear from the right source to understand Spiritual matters. Please take the easy route and Listen to the Pure Devotee Srila Prabhupada.

 

Follow me here and hear for yourself.

 

prabhupadavani.org

[Guest guest]

 

Can someone please clarify a few of my doubts?

 

1) Veda says that God is one but sages call it by many names. Does that mean God can be called by any name other than Krishna? If so, why do Vaishnavas insist on Krishna?

 

2) From the above, does it follow that Krishna, Siva, ganesha and durga are all one?

 

3) Where in the veda does it clearly say that Krishna is Supreme? I don't want puranic references.

 

4) Isn't it commonly held that Vishnu appeared as rama, krishna etc? So why do people say krishna appeared as rama, narasimha and so on, as if krishna and visnu are synonymous? If they are, then why can't we say that Rama appeared as narasimha, krishna et al?

 

Put simply, I am confused by all this. I tried to search the net, but couldn't find any. Can someone please tell me which is true-Krishna is Supreme and other devatas are expansions, or Krishna and other devatas are all part of the Ineffable Supreme? Also tell me why.

 

Very interesting questions. I will tell you what I know.

 

1) God can be called by any name, but those names were popular in the early Vedic times. Vaishnavas are sectarian and follow other scriptures such as the Vishnu puranas, Mahabharata, Ramayana where they derive their belifs that Vishnu is the supreme God. Likewise Saivites and Shaktas also have their own scriptures, which state their gods are supreme.

 

2) Yes, all the gods are different manifestations of Ishwar (the personal aspect of God) and Ishwar in turn is a manifestation of Brahman (the ultimate reality). The Atharveda says "great are the devas that have sprung out of Brahman").

 

3) It doesn't say that in the Vedas, it says so in the Gita. The main god of the Vedas is Indra and his friend is Vishnu. Shiva is not mentioned as a god but the quality of auspisciousness, but Brahma/Prajapati and Saraswati are mentioned. Lakshmi is also mentioned in the Vedas.

 

4) Krishna is one of the human incarnations of Vishnu. Rama, Narasimha are incarnations of Vishnu.